Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: We ... WHAT!?

Russell Brown

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 08:25:55 +1200

I think I'll close this discussion now that there's a more considered original post by Philip Lyth to talk about.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 04:03:01 +1200

Ah, indeed, the kiwi accent. My most recent fun was asking for a “tin trup tuckit” at a convenience store in Dublin.
To me there’s another, far less exciting story in this, and it’s in the undervaluing of transcribers and linguists in general. Either it was machine transcribed (because transcription…

Islander

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 02:12:25 +1200

I did specify 'phrases in ENGLISH" Rich-

Euan Mason

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 23:02:14 +1200

The US State Department probably preferred their original version. This could become like the Treaty of Waitangi, an NZ English version and a US English version...

Russell Brown

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 20:21:57 +1200

Hi folks. Back in town. Might have to write about this in the morning.

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 19:05:13 +1200

I find one of the (few) advantages of the Kindle is that you can look stuff up in a (very comprehensive) dictionary, so maybe that will go away again.

(Although I suspect if you mean phrases in Te Reo, foreign readers may need a g;lossary. The only Maori phrase English…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 18:50:31 +1200

And Fairfax finally has its own take online... although it's following the news rather than leading it.

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 18:40:42 +1200

I don’t buy that the Americans would purposefully change the Prime Minister’s words, that would be a real PR/diplomatic disaster.

Neither do I, but considering the Forum isn't exactly a fixture on the US State Secretary's calendar – and Clinton wasn't there to work on her tan – it's helpful…

Islander

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 17:30:50 +1200

have no doubt that after the west falls, satellites re-enter and undersea cables rot, English will splinter like Latin.

It’s already happening…in the last 2 English editions of a couple of my books, I’ve been asked to provide meanings for perfectly clear* phrases in English. Thomas Kennally has had the…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 17:01:34 +1200

Normally, FX is traded in a London / Essex accent, and I can hear a bit of that in the way Key talks.

In keeping with the Nouveau Riche atmosphere of the place, no less. It's also the source of Tony Blair's Essex Man anecdote.

Chris Waugh

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:59:56 +1200

Can I offer the view that the kiwi accent can be very strong in some individuals?

Of course! But Key's accent is not the issue here. In that recording, he pronounced some words (e.g. "that context") very clearly, while others he jumbled together into a barely coherent mess. At no…

Paul Williams

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:42:37 +1200

I don't expect Key to lose his Kiwi accent, but to be capable of speaking clearly when the situation demands. He wasn't enjoying a cold beer with his mates in his backyard, he was communicating to an international audience in a formal situation.

Can I offer the view that the…

Richard Aston

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 16:11:05 +1200

Maybe he should just revert to full-on East End when giving speeches

Yeah but I would prefer a soft lilting Southern Irish accent they are soooo beautiful to listen to.

He could get some help here

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 15:31:17 +1200

Something that occurs to me is that in the PM's previous career as an FX trader, he'd have been trading huge amounts of money over the phone. Not being understood in those circumstances can lose your employer lots of money.

Normally, FX is traded in a London / Essex accent,…

Robyn Gallagher

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 15:26:04 +1200

This is simply a case of a genuine error by the transcriber, it would be unwise and imprudent to read too much into it. It seems to be that the transcriber (who probably has little if any knowledge about NZ’s foreign/diplomatic policies) was trying to make sense out of something…

Collin2012

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 15:15:06 +1200

Firstly, his diction was fine. We must not try to compare the standard of his diction to an American speaker, but rather an ordinary New Zealand speaker.

Secondly, to those of you who think he should simply change the way he speaks for any given occasion. It appears that he…

Richard Aston

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 14:01:35 +1200

Fair enough Chris – you are right, an international statesman needs to be able to articulate clearly.

mark taslov

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 14:00:30 +1200

I don’t see how any reasonable person could say Key’s diction was at issue here.

Indeed. For what was the rewind button invented if not this?

BenWilson

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:52:20 +1200

I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a case of laziness. Who really cares what John Key says? Only the people who will be sure to correct the transcriber anyway. Mission accomplished, the internet has done the proof reading, cheap as chips.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:52:17 +1200

Outrageous Importunity…
Apparently this is just more outrage from that ‘Russel Brown’ who gets outraged at everything (according to one obviously knowledgeable commenter) – Fairfax get in with a story of their own – while adding to the disinformation theme by misspelling Russell’s name, sigh….

James Butler

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:28:36 +1200

That was, however, his own doing. No suggestion that pressure was applied on him by those who are acutely sensitive to the raised eyebrows of Foggy Bottom’s residents.

That's just more evidence of their stupendous power!

Matthew Donaldson

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:28:32 +1200

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2010/11/19/1225956/789893-leak-afghanistan.jpg

Sacha

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:28:23 +1200

rebouncing towards the Asia Pacific

sounds fun

Kumara Republic

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:27:35 +1200

Yes! New Zealand’s non-rhotic R can cause so much trouble in America. A holidaying friend with the surname Turner had to go to a lot of effort to make people realise it wasn’t “Tuna”.

Is it any better in the New England states?

Robyn Gallagher

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:23:41 +1200

Remember the first time you ordered water in a restaurant over there? And the second time? And the third? And every other time until you just put on an American accent to save yourself some trouble? :)

Yes! New Zealand's non-rhotic R can cause so much trouble in America. A…

Chris Waugh

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:14:24 +1200

Matthew Donaldson

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:14:17 +1200

Kava – it's a helluva drug.

"Secary Clinton n'I discuss a board range of issues in the Asia Pacific region, as we look towards the APEC summit in Russia in around ten days time. New Zilnd woolmy supports the Unied States rebouncing towards the Asia Pacific and we welcome th…

Lyndon Hood

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:09:52 +1200

I see the State Dept transcript is now corrected, at least as far as those two sentences go.

Matthew Poole

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:06:18 +1200

It took nary more than a raised eyebrow to get rid of Judge Harvey.

That was, however, his own doing. No suggestion that pressure was applied on him by those who are acutely sensitive to the raised eyebrows of Foggy Bottom's residents.

Richard Aston

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 13:02:46 +1200

Call me paranoid but how often does this happen?
Yeah sure John Key has a difficult relationship with his consonants but try understanding a Glaswegian accent or an middle eastern accent for that matter.
Why did they transcribe it in the first place it sounded like he was reading a…

Chris Waugh

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 12:57:01 +1200

Consider me firmly in the camp that blames equally both John Key's diction and the State Dept transcriber – and considering the American fascination with getting machines to do everything for them, I wouldn't be surprised if they were using some kind of transcription software, in which case the State…

BenWilson

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 12:43:44 +1200

John Key did not have sex with that woman, Hilary. He had seven, FFS.

Will de Cleene

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 12:23:42 +1200

If the US has problems transcribing an English speaker, Dagg help their Arabic and Chinese translators.

Joe Wylie

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 12:22:26 +1200

OMG, it is the newsbiscuit article come to life
urthquike article
Brilliant. Unfortunately Bill Leak's cartoons are behind the Murdoch paywall now, along with his take on Gillard's strangled vowels:
"So you'll be sending more Australian troops to Afghanistan to die?"
"Well not todie but miebe nixt week."

Richard Aston

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 12:03:50 +1200

I was going to say how embarrassing our PM is so inaudible but listening to the recording not so . How bloody shocking it is that the US state dept basically spun this conversation out to suit their own agenda.
I mean ....WTF

Pete Sime

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:50:19 +1200

Now that I have a moment, can I just say that I am very glad the PM didn’t say what he was officially alleged to have said? Phew.

Saying nothing while talking a lot is a key part of any political toolbox. Perhaps the PM’s garbled diction is his technique…

James Butler

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:21:16 +1200

I suspect by now the Mandarins of Foggy Bottom would have extracted grovelling corrections and apologies from both McCully and Grosser with a blunt butter knife and a pair of eyebrow tweezers.

You kidding? It took nary more than a raised eyebrow to get rid of Judge Harvey.

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:17:00 +1200

I’m trying to think how it would go down the other way round, ie if a NZ transcription of secretary of state put (bellicose) words in her mouth.

I suspect by now the Mandarins of Foggy Bottom would have extracted grovelling corrections and apologies from both McCully and Grosser with…

Jolisa

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:16:50 +1200

"US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton ordered State Department translators to work round-the-clock on deciphering the garbled message."

Yup!

David Hood

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 11:12:05 +1200

OMG, it is the newsbiscuit article come to life
urthquike article

Kim Robinson Robinson

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:58:24 +1200

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10657861

How a Google mix-up on YouTube left PM's real message

Tamara

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:48:02 +1200

Many years ago I worked at a Georgie Pie franchise. One day a man came to the counter asking for "a cup for his coop". Many repetitions later I realised he wanted a "cap for his cup". When English is not English.

Scott Chris

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:36:13 +1200

I just missed my fucking flight.

Crikey, the things you journos get up to... I'm not a member of the mile high club either but really, I don't give a flying fuck.

Angus Robertson

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:34:19 +1200

Now that I have a moment, can I just say that I am very glad the PM didn't say what he was officially alleged to have said? Phew.

Supporting American run conflicts is a longstanding strategic interest for NZ. Doesn't matter if the politicians say it or not, we can…

Steve Barnes

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:33:22 +1200

England? Let’s just say there’s a pub in Greenwich where a barman and I were reduced to a state of excruciating mutual incomprehension.

Surprising, very few barmen in Greenwich are English, in fact last time I was there most of them were Kiwis apart from the ones where the "Management"…

Steve Withers

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:29:40 +1200

I'm very happy to hear it wasn't what he said. I'm not so happy about what enabling software patents means for the outcome of the TPPA. It also doesn't change the general presumption of willingness to use Kiwi soldiers' lives as bargaining chip in trade relations. Actions there by labour…

James Butler

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:28:50 +1200

It raises another issue: is the English language in danger of splintering like Latin did centuries ago?

My (limited) understanding is that Latin splintered with the disintegration of the Roman empire and the closing of the lines of communications that had kept far-flung provinces in touch with each other. I…

Joe Wylie

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:17:02 +1200

Now that I have a moment, can I just say that I am very glad the PM didn't say what he was officially alleged to have said? Phew.
Back in 1999 John Howard pretty much said it, and more. While the rapid flip from regional deputy sheriff to Mamma take…

Robyn Gallagher

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:13:51 +1200

...and we welcome the opportunities to cooperate further. In that context ...

I can understand 'correcting' "opportunities" to "opportunity" but what did the American transcriber think "further" was and why did they leave it out? It's very clear!

Kumara Republic

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:13:17 +1200

Two nations divided by a common language…

Key’s diction can be muddy and galloped at the best of times, but that bit was crystal clear. WTF. Auto-complete??

3 News has the inside skinny. As for the other outlets? To borrow from military speak, MIA. Yet the media was all over…

Toby

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 10:00:10 +1200

I'm trying to think how it would go down the other way round, ie if a NZ transcription of secretary of state put (bellicose) words in her mouth.

Russell Brown

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:59:02 +1200

Now that I have a moment, can I just say that I am very glad the PM didn't say what he was officially alleged to have said? Phew.

Russell Clarke

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:54:32 +1200

I hope you're not using a mobile device while driving...although I'm not sure sitting in a traffic jam counts.

Russell Brown

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:44:14 +1200

In breaking news, with roadworks and a show-stopping motorway smash up in front of me, I just missed my fucking flight. I'm blaming Hillary Clinton.

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:40:51 +1200

Weird thing is I had not problems making myself understood in continental Europe…

Scott A

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:37:57 +1200

Curious... Does anyone actually know how the State Department do their transcriptions? Would they be using speech-recognition software, perhaps?

Danielle

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:30:12 +1200

Two nations divided by a common language…

(Obviously a State Department transcriber should…

Russell Clarke

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:26:29 +1200

Perhaps a case of people hearing what they want/expect to hear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondegreen#Psychology

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:26:07 +1200

No, not to a New Zild ear. But what if the transcription was being done back in the States by a person who has to contend with hearing English spoken in its many glorious forms from around the world?

Oddly enough, I expect the US State Department to hire from…

Cecelia

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:23:14 +1200

Oh wow!

Michael J. Parry

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:13:23 +1200

What was said

Secretary Clinton and I discussed the broad range of issues in the Asia Pacific region as we look towards the APEC summit in Russia in around 10 days time. New Zealand warmly supports the United States rebalancing towards the Asia Pacific, and we welcome the opportunities to…

Martin Lindberg

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:08:22 +1200

Secretary Clinton and I share the goal of securing a high quality, (inaudible) free trade agreement, would be a significant (inaudible) countries involved, indeed to the region as a whole.

Secateur Clinton and I share the goal of securing a high quality, twentyfirst century free trade agreement, would be a…

Phil Lyth

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:06:56 +1200

I don't see how any reasonable person could say Key's diction was at issue here

No, not to a New Zild ear. But what if the transcription was being done back in the States by a person who has to contend with hearing English spoken in its many glorious forms…

Phil Palmer

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:05:21 +1200

The cock-up theory of history vindicated! Perhaps the old story about NZ starting WW2 a day early after mistaking the time zones is true after all. I can imagine similar disasters – Blair: "Iraq? No, no, I said I was going down to the Park." Napoleon: "I only said I…

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 09:00:22 +1200

Key really owes it to the world of diplomacy (and future generations) to improve his diction and to slow down when he talks -

Or, you know, The US State Department could, like, hire some people who were paying attention. Sorry, Ian, but listening to the audio Russell posted I…

Tom Beard

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:59:54 +1200

Shall we play at guessing the rest of the inaudibles?

Secretary Clinton and I share the goal of securing a high quality, (inaudible) free trade agreement, would be a significant (inaudible) countries involved, indeed to the region as a whole.

might be

Secretary Clinton and I share the goal of…

slarty

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:58:01 +1200

I did like the Google Ad that appeared under this post for me:

PR & Communications
Latest Public Relations, Corporate Affairs & Comms jobs in NZ.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:50:28 +1200

Chinese whispers...
In this case it looks like they got the 'New Zild" translators and reality adjusters involved as well – Now if we could just get a copy of the original speech from the PM's office and compare the State Department transcript side by side...
You'd think the PM's…

Scott Chris

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:45:27 +1200

I contend that Key's diction isn't a speech impediment but simply his Austro-Jewish Kiwi accent. (just as the way in which many of us pronounce 'six' seems to be derived from the Scottish pronunciation of said number)

steviant

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:42:35 +1200

I look forward to the equally warm and well reasoned response from the Taleban to our soldiers.

Thanks a lot to whoever transcribed this...

Felix Marwick

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:40:10 +1200

Sorry, but there were a fair few gallery journwith the PM on that trip. If he'd actually said it they would've reported it. It's not a comment that would have been overlooked or missed.

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:37:39 +1200

Dear Secretary Clinton:

Next time you want us to get involved in a war be a petal and ask first.

Thanking you in advance. Hugs and kisses,

New Zealand.

Paul Brislen

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:31:42 +1200

Ah, so the transcript that isn't a real transcript... much like Hansard can be "corrected" by MPs after the fact (thank you Winston).

Glad to see he hasn't lost the plot that completely.

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:28:16 +1200

WTF. Auto-complete??

Or someone who had a very late night on the diplomatic razzle the night before?

Glen Wright

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:27:19 +1200

The word was context. How ironic.

Sacha

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:26:50 +1200

Struggling to think of another word that could be mistaken for "conflicts"

'Cooperate', perhaps?

Jolisa

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:25:59 +1200

Two nations divided by a common language...

Key's diction can be muddy and galloped at the best of times, but that bit was crystal clear. WTF. Auto-complete??

Russell Brown

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:21:43 +1200

Okay. Here’s the clip.

It is NOTHING LIKE THE TRANSCRIPT.

What Key actually says is: " ... we welcome the opportunity to cooperate. In that context... "

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:15:38 +1200

Given that that's the official State Department transcript, that would be an interesting situation.

Yeah, if by "interesting" you mean "pretty fucking scary" because weirdly enough you're not the only person on Earth who takes things on US State Department letterhead very seriously indeed.

Armitast

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:07:19 +1200

Struggling to think of another word that could be mistaken for "conflicts".

Russell Brown

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 07:53:57 +1200

One journalist has just told me she thinks Key didn't say "conflicts". Given that that's the official State Department transcript, that would be an interesting situation.

Cecelia

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 07:45:24 +1200

I was shocked too after reading it on Twitter and then checking it online.

Was it a kind of Freudian slip? Did someone else really see that line before he spoke it?

I've just ploughed through Nicky Hager's "Other People's Wars" and I'm angry too. Even allowing for a certain…

Steve Withers

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 07:11:53 +1200

Thanks for pointing this out. It represents a continuation of one of the National Party’s primary foreign policy themes: (Broadly) Do whatever the US says. From Kim Dotcom to suddenly allowing software patents (TPPA foreshadowing BIG time) this IS what they do. I still remember Simon Power and Wayne Mapp…

Phil Lyth

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 07:07:00 +1200

Thanks for posting this. For completeness, a link to the original transcript at the US State Dept.

Public Address

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 07:07:00 +1200

Discussion from blog post.