Tony Blair, our favourite liberal interventionist, has certainly been arguing as much: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/sep/01/tony-blair-military-intervention-necessary

What do you think about the lessons of WWI and WWII? Are we to…

Family and friends from outisde the loop were not particularly appreciative of the numerous 'dead baby' jokes I acquired after a stint working as IT support in Peckham social services.

I had a psych-nurse friend who had to do intervention work with paedophiles. He had kiddy-fiddler lines. You'd bloody have…

I figure if you cant fight human nature, giggle

The bleak humour that is usually the result of experiencing the darker side of human nature is usually the funniest, in my opinion. Although audiences need to be chosen carefully.

Family and friends from outisde the loop were not particularly appreciative…

(obviously, in my case, not for the survival of our species...except I am a good & useful family member.)

Methinks we need more of the good & useful than genes. But the physical aside, its the quirks in consciousness that really tickle me.

I learned, for example, that the subjugation and slaughter of the aboriginal peoples of the New World bore an uncanny resemblance to the story of Cain and Abel. Cain the tiller of the soil "watered his fields with the blood" of Abel the herder (a…

*because my left eye is SO dominant it took only the one cataract operation to give me…

-it will be considerably saner than we are-

Our Problem if I may be bold is wildly disparate cultural adaptations in various stages of evolution, which are all rubbing up against each other. No getting away now. No siree bob... i like to make light of such things. Perhaps I'm…

"which is not say that H. ergaster etc. were NOT saner than we are-"

which is not say that H. ergaster/heidelbergensis/forensis et al were saner than we are* – just, they're extinct just now.

*No, since you ask, I…

I am and always will be proud of my status as an ape. A great ape, if I were to brag.

Makes monkey-like grovelling gesture.

Without knowledge we would not be destroying our own habitat.

Or maybe in that other universe where we didn't get wheels and fossil fuels, humanity…

More about it here (Wired.com)

We are the way we are because of our lowly origins, we are monkeys.

You, sir, might be a monkey. I am and always will be proud of my status as an ape. A great ape, if I were to brag.

My theory was this: Like Cain (and us), the Caucasians began to encroach on the territory of their neighbors — the Semites being their neighbors to the south. They began to water their fields with the blood of the Semites.

His theory sucks. He makes too much out of monkeys…

Sorry the Fall of Man, is a biblical fantasy. We are the way we are because of our lowly origins, we are monkeys. Not because of we did something wrong somewhere and fell out of favour with some celestial dictator.

Not sure what the apology is for. Both Daniel Quinn…

..Daniel Quinn's argument

I had to look that up to make sure it wasn't some kind of Paul Auster identity confusion performance art. After reading some of the Ishmael site I'm still not sure. (No pun intended)

wars are not only designed to deal with other matters but that they actually pose a threat to pretty much everything, potentially even human existence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZvvTo1F03M

As an aside you might be interested to read his alternative theory on The Fall of Man, Cain and Abel, and the knowledge of good and evil:

Sorry the Fall of Man, is a biblical fantasy. We are the way we are…

If there was no black market in heroin and addicts got their supplies from pharmacies, there would be no illicit profits to be made. It'd also be way healthier for the smackheads.

Doubt that. I'd rather have a puff of opium any day than drink a liquid pharmaceutical alternative. However…

The hattip must be given to the fascinating and lyrical Manan Ahmed on Twitter.

On the front it said: "Never Mined..."

On the back it said: "More than 10 Afghans are killed or injured each day by mines and unexploded ordinance. Help Afghan Amputee Bicyclists for Rehabilitation and Recreation.(AABRAR) to assist men women…

justified and ancient

Now, since you allow me to digress, I saw a poster on a wall at the weekend with KLF on it.

Are they reforming and coming to NZ.

Or is it the Khandallah Liberation Front?

business as usual for the armourers of the world

Quite. It's probably not 'illegal' or covert trade that's causing most of the problem. No refs, but I recall hearing many years ago that over 80% of the global arms trade was conducted by the five permanent members of the UN…

(Having a drink now.)

Ditto. This stuff sure makes your head hurt. Feel a bit more enlightened, or at least slightly less dimwitted ;-)

And whatever the problems with Karzai, he did win at least one relatively free and fair election in which 41% of the votes were cast by women. The US has given him any number of tellings-off. Should they depose him?

I think the issue of RAWA and other groups was…

Not that long. As late as early 2001, the US government gave the regime a $40 million plus gift in echange for their declaring the opium trade impious (I know, you can't make this shit up, can you?).

I remember when that came out. That shit was wack.

Most of the recent western combat casualties have been caused by IEDs, not 'combat' per se.

IEDs are the major cause of civilian deaths too.

Surely the US has been trying for a long, long time to prevent groups like the Taliban getting weapons?

If by 'a long long time' you actually mean 'since they stopped spending billions of dollars making sure Afghanistan was awash with modern weapons'.

The Pakistan/Afghanistan border region is one of…

Surely the US has been trying for a long, long time to prevent groups like the Taliban getting weapons?

Not that long. As late as early 2001, the US government gave the regime a $40 million plus gift in echange for their declaring the opium trade impious (I know, you…

And whatever the problems with Karzai, he did win at least one relatively free…

30kph would be my first guess.

Too high by half.

But don't feel too bad, because I once acted as scorer/marker for a fire brigade driving challenge and almost none of the competitors, nearly all of whom were qualified to drive fire appliances as urgent traffic, would've passed even the…

Relatedly, how many here can, without referring to any reference material (including Google or other websites), say what the speed limit is after passing an "accident" sign until you have passed the scene of the accident?

30kph would be my first guess.

Surely the US has been trying for a long, long time to prevent groups like the Taliban getting weapons?

Since the Americans stopped providing them – and if history is repeating, one would imagine Russia and China would be happily, covertly supplying those... Pakistan seems pretty porous in that area…

In fact excuse me for saying so but I find the way you caricature said opinion pretty galling.

I meant to apologise for being a bit tart immediately under the comment. And it would be great if all those things happened. But it just seems unlikely in the extreme. Enough…

...while America remains the largest consumer
of, and panderer to, both...
but don't worry. China has their number...

Does he have any ideas on how all this might actually be achieved?

Well, we're spending trillions of dollars fighting a war, which is a pretty complicated business. Stopping the flow of arms and drugs in and out of a country is also complicated, but doesn't have to be any…

Get the troops out, stop buying the heroin from the Taliban, stop selling arms to the Taliban, strenghten Emergency and use their model of intervention to build infrastructure, support all pro-democracy, pro-civil rights organisations inside and outside of Afghanistan. Which is not my idea – it's Gino Strada's.

Does he…

Which is perfectly understandable, and I understand the fury of their rhetoric, but it's hard to see how it might be achieved.

I'd send in H2.

So who wins? My friend or yours?

They both lose, They don't get to live peacefully in their own country. My friend is shit scared in his own country.That sucks no matter who wields the gun.
It is the propaganda that is spun to invade these places. Why do they…

They're both really shitty options, to me countries sending their armed forces in at tremendous expense and loss…

Which is perfectly understandable, and I understand the fury of their rhetoric, but it's hard to see how it might be achieved.

Get the troops out, stop buying the heroin from the Taliban, stop selling arms to the Taliban, strenghten Emergency and use their model of intervention to build infrastructure,…

Well, no, it's exactly the matter. Anybody can comment, but if it doesn't make any difference then what's the relevance?

I'm a bit surprised by this. Are you saying even people in high profile positions like HC should say nothing about Afghanistan because nobody is listening? I would have thought…

So I guess we are included in the 'lackeys' of whom they speak?

No, in their view, the US and the Islamists and jihadis are in league.

The problem is that it's not at all clear. RAWA for one would like us to fuck right off, and I think they've earned the right to say so, although no doubt they don't represent all Afghan women.

RAWA's stance is basically a pox on all their houses — the…

No, but do you think the UNDP has no place in commenting on military strategies, or the role of reconstruction forces in Afghanistan? Whether anyone will listen, is another matter.

Well, no, it's exactly the matter. Anybody can comment, but if it doesn't make any difference then what's the relevance?

Why, do you think it's Helen Clark or UNDP that makes decisions about military strategy in Afghanistan?

No, but do you think the UNDP has no place in commenting on military strategies, or the role of reconstruction forces in Afghanistan? Whether anyone will listen, is another matter.

I also read…

I thought there was a legal obligation for the first on the scene to stop at road accidents, but can't find link to substantiate it.

Not in NZ, though if you're involved in a crash you're obliged to stop and ascertain injury of other involved parties.

Where it gets tricky…

But I'm trying to "be real" about what happens to Afghan women if "we" now just ship out.

The problem is that it's not at all clear. RAWA for one would like us to fuck right off, and I think they've earned the right to say so, although no doubt…

I'm quite uncomfortable about the position (seemingly) being taken that we are there, or should stay in Afghanistan, to protect Afghani woman. By all means this is a worthy thing, however, lets be real about the motives for being there. The coalition went in to fuck shit up.

No doubt.…

A small request: Russell/Craig, I apologise for being overly aggressive, but would you mind refraining from turning my "not much sympathy" statement into a "I wish they were dead" one?

Fair enough. And sorry in turn for my rather sharp responses.

My point is the *potential* risk to informants is…

You don't think this includes women's welfare?

Why, do you think it's Helen Clark or UNDP that makes decisions about military strategy in Afghanistan?

Nobody is talking about the women, whose welfare is not now nor has ever been part of the strategic equation. They only get mentioned to justify the war to liberals.

You don't think this includes women's welfare?

In Afghanistan UNDP helps to strengthen local government and public administration; and undertakes…

Also,
A friend just told me that, if I asked him who he was, he would say Afghani as an individual, As to the country, it is Afghan, which is the name of the people and istan is the place of living hence Afghan (people) istan (place).

But only in…

Afghan is the adjective and Afghani is the noun for people, though, no?

Yes,as in "My people are Afghan, I am an Afghani.and I speak the pashto language which is Indo-Iranian"
He never mentioned adjectives and nouns however. Bloody foreigners. ;)

And yet … you have the world being blown to oblivion by 'diseased' western imperialist force who is no better than the Taliban

Putting aside your inability to accurately restate my position, are you seriously suggesting that humans can merrily continue to war with each other without having to worry…

.....looking to fuck shit up.

Exactly.

New Zealand…

because allowing the persecution of any group of people on religious, gender or cultural grounds is no better than driving past a road accident without stopping.

Yeah, but see, if I were inclined to be polite, I would say that this is bollocks. Firstly, because we drive past such road…

And yet, possibly due to the cornering you received above, you have the world being blown to oblivion by 'diseased'…

The Liars
Carl Sandburg(…

Pyschopaths – intelligent. Handsome. Winning personalities. Majorly male. Because, evolutionarily, however else would they survive? (given the, errrm, sideways damage? = the rest of us.)

I mean the predators amongst us, the 10% of humanity who are pyschopaths/sociopaths. Predators.

Oh you mean THESE guys.

Hmmm....right in our midst too.

But that's been where there's been a foreign invader or a small dictatorial group that didn't…

The people are not wholely 'to blame.' But I can really understand folk who totally resent outsiders imposing their view of what is right and proper for Afghanistan.

And – as…

Tom Scott made a point.

Yeah, including women – (sarcasm sarcasm sarcasm wark warkwark alert!)

*elephants, whales, dolphins, selenids,pigs,…

Prior to Taliban rule, women accounted for as many as 70 percent of teachers, and approximately 50 percent of civil servants.

Would that have been under the Soviet-backed government?

They achieved that by killing around 1.5 million (presumably mostly male) Afghans over 10 years, which makes a paltry few thousand…

But who'd want to be the president who pulled out of Afghanistan and ushered in, say, a civil war in which half a million people died?

Hmmm. Vietnam aftermath.....Hate to think...Dioxin....

Seems we have moved away from the point of Russell's post. Wikileaks.

As for just reading newspapers as a…

four possible scenarios for the near future...

Oh joy :-|

Ian, pure brilliance of form and content, once again.

Yes, innit.
We are all humans and we all bleed, one way or another.It's 50,50 in every war, but bigger 50 for countries with big boys toys.
War,what are we fighting for, because either way ,it feels wrong to be in…

The problem with the print media going digital is that the print media fail to fulfil their most useful purpose – providing something to wrap rubbish in before it…

which sure looks like a back-handed ill-wishing to me (and similar intemperate & inflammatory statements triggered me withdrawing from the PA System for a while last year) so I would understand Christiaan's response in kind...

No, Ian. If I ever express a fervent wish for anyone's death in a car bombing…

I do think our PRT contingent has helped people and that they — and Lt O'Donnell in particular — should be permitted their pride in that.

Yes, that. I find some of the attitudes expressed around this, and not necessarily on here, a bit chilling. Our isolation is no excuse…

Afghanistan had the lowest life expectancy in the world during this period

If it weren't for the AIDS epidemic in Africa, Afghanistan would still have the lowest life expectancy in the world. Looking at the colour-map of life-expectancy, it's plain that Afghanistan is the odd one out in the region.…

The period 1989-1996 was basically one of full-on civil war followed by anarchy. Civilian casualties and excess mortality is unknown, but Afghanistan had the lowest life expectancy in the world during this period.

Wikipedia says 10,000 in Kabul alone in 1994.

And that "The Soviet occupation resulted in the killings…

Don't agree with you though.

Russell, what exactly is your position? it seems to me you are advocating a TINA approach, that we have a tiger by the tail and we can't leave?

Not immediately. And even finding a time to leave will be a matter of "defining victory down" till it's not victory any…

I doubt many people in the US would notice or care; the political danger is a withdrawal followed by another terror attack inside the US.

The period 1989-1996 was basically one of full-on civil war followed by anarchy. Civilian casualties and excess mortality is unknown, but Afghanistan had the lowest…

But who'd want to be the president who pulled out of Afghanistan and ushered in, say, a civil war in which half a million people died?

I doubt many people in the US would notice or care; the political danger is a withdrawal followed by another terror attack inside the…

For the United States, embroiled in a war in Afghanistan and entangled with allies and others throughout the world who promote or tolerate policies that are unfair or cruel to women,…

after seven years of rebuilding its time to say job well done…

Right now, that might mean no aid projects in Afghanistan.

That may well be the case and would be a tragedy foe the people who live there. But there is scant evidence that things are really stabilizing there to the point that peaceful aid missions will be able to continue…

What, defending Hamid Karzai? Are your serious?

It appears that Lt O'Donnell was serious. He clearly thought his work was worth something. If you're going to repeatedly invoke his name, it might be a mark of respect to acknowledge that.

You know, Tom, I think he felt he was making the world a better place.

What, defending Hamid Karzai? Are your serious?

I'm not doubting for a second his intentions were noble, just like the majority of the thousands of soldiers who have been killed in that place. All that…

How about they pull out asap, cut military budgets and start doing aid by aid where it'll be most effective?

Right now, that might mean no aid projects in Afghanistan. The Taliban attacked a USAID office last month, a UN aid centre last year. Before the invasion, UNHCR said that…

Craig, foreign aid is completely different to being part of an army of occupation, and you know it.

It's actually not "completely different" in the case of the PRT. A significant part of its work lies in providing project management for NZAID work in Bamiyan. The aid projects wouldn't happen…

The young soldier who died in Afghanistan was part of the Provincial Reconstruction Team, which seems…

Well, I think we have our rationale for withdrawing from the United Nations, tearing up every international treaty and convention we've ever signed...

I support the U.N. and collective action under the…

We went to Afghanistan to destroy Osama Bin Laden's ability to plan and execute another 9/11. This act of self defense was achieved by the end of 2001.

That was when our involvement in Afghanistan should also have come to an end.

Was it?

What exactly would have happened if…

I don't expect someone from Fielding to die to make me feel better about women's rights in country we've got no right to be in.

I don't expect it, but I do have a small amount of gratitude for it. The fighting for women's rights, not the dying. That's a…

And what, exactly, has this got to do with us, far off in our corner of the South Pacific? Are we part of some grand imperial scheme to enforce Western values everywhere that I am not aware of?

Well, I think we have our rationale for withdrawing from the United…

collateral feminism (hat tip to the now show) is no reason for the invasion nor staying the course (whatever that is)

This.

We went to Afghanistan to destroy Osama Bin Laden's ability to plan and execute another 9/11. This act of self defense was achieved by the end of 2001.…

I don't expect someone from Fielding to die to make me feel better about women's rights in country we've got no right to be in.

It's not about your feelings.

If that's how you want to see it, Tom, that's up to you. It certainly has the virtue of simplicity, I'll give you that.

I don't expect someone from Fielding to die to make me feel better about women's rights in country we've got no right to be in.

And what, exactly, has this got to do with us, far off in our corner of the South Pacific? Are we part of some grand imperial scheme to enforce Western values everywhere that I am not aware of?

If that's how you want to see it, Tom, that's up to…

Human Rights Watch has a new report on the threat to women posed by compromises with the Taliban as part of any exit strategy.

And what, exactly, has this got to do with us, far off in our corner of the South Pacific? Are we part of some grand imperial…

It includes a section on women's acess to medical care under the Taliban:

The controls on women’s mobility also impaired their access to medical treatment. Women…

Surely if we were interested in getting communications, health and education to deprived people, the coalition's billions of dollars could have been more effectively spent.

Indeed. And it actually seems hard to believe, given that this was the situation in the late 1990s:

Operating under the guise of Islamic law,…

Surely if we were interested in getting communications, health and education to deprived people, the coalition's billions of dollars could have been more…

On some counts — access to education (especially for women and girls, who were entirely denied education under the Taliban regime), access to health care, access to information and…

Bush did a Christmas speech in the first year, paid tribute to the fallen — and never once mentioned the loss of Afghan lives.

This is one of the more galling things about modern (Western?) body-count journalism. It's a bit off topic, but it bugs me that the flooding in…

Without wanting to be callous, it makes me wonder what all the fuss is about.

I'm not sure I'd go that far, but yes, I was quite surprised. The thing is that we very rarely hear about the civilian toll in the news. I recall being extremely appalled when Bush…

UNAMA Human Rights (HR) recorded a total of 2,412 civilian deaths between 01 January and 31 December 2009.

This surprises me because it is really quite a small number. A quick search suggests this number is fairly widely quoted and accepted. Without wanting to be callous, it makes me wonder…

Its 2009 report on protection of civilians makes troubling reading. Pardon the large copy-n-paste, but it lays out the situation quite well:

UNAMA Human Rights (HR) recorded a total of 2,412 civilian deaths between 01 January and 31 December…

And then we got to "gullible liberals" and "patronising Western liberals" ...

Not that it's necessarily a meaningless category, though, eh?

But, God, it would be nice if Assange…

So I'm accused of being "morally callous" for holding strong views on imperialist war while living in London and I'm a disrespectful prick for making analogous observations in response? Right.

I could have expressed it with greater restraint, but you kind of came in spraying dismissive stereotypes: Snipes didn't matter…

And I'm hardly surprised someone from the North Shore of Auckland thinks it's moral callousness to oppose imperial folly and its informants. Perhaps you'd have a different view if it was your fellow kiwi informing on you while foreign invaders killed your family?

Christiaan: Let's see... I'm an openly gay,…

You're perfectly welcome to your views, but perhaps it might be possible to grant that those nasty snitches might have perfectly good reason for finding the imperial Crusaders a slightly more palatable option than the Taliban. Just a thought.

Or maybe they just need the money. It doesn't really matter.…

So I'm accused of being "morally callous" for holding strong views on imperialist war while living in London

You're perfectly welcome to your views, but perhaps it might be possible to grant that those nasty snitches might have perfectly good reason for finding the imperial Crusaders a slightly more palatable…

Rather than assuming you know what they think, perhaps you could move beyond your own certainties and find out.

I wasn't assuming anything. I'm quite up to speed on the polls. It seems you're the one making assumptions about what I think.

I wasn't trying to bolster some specific position…

On the whole however, I'd much rather that institutions like this exist than don't. The enemy of a good society is unrestrained power, and transparency and accountability are some of the strongest constraints on it.

I agree. I'd just rather be more certain in my trust of the individuals involved.

But who cares what any of us think? It doesn't matter what we think. It matters what Afghans think.

Rather than assuming you know what they think, perhaps you could move beyond your own certainties and find out.

The BBC, to its great credit, has polled Afghans annually, each December.…

I find that cover something of a disgusting distortion of the truth. "What happens if we leave?"?? It happened during a then-8-year-old American occupation.

Yes, it did. It happened more often when the Taliban functioned as a government, which is why women's advocacy groups are so concerned as to what…

You're right, of course, that the situation as it is now is what must be dealt with; how best to proceed with that is really beyond my purview.

Pretty much exactly how I felt the moment the bombs started dropping on Baghdad. "Now it's broken. The time when I knew…

And atrocities weren't happening during the 1990s?

But that's the point. NATO imperial aggression, even when marketed to gullible liberals as liberal interventionism, isn't making Afghanistan a better place.

There is of course a right thing to do and that's for the U.S. to stop killing people, pay reparations and…

we can only deal with what is, not some counterfactual world in which the United States had not invaded, or had invaded and done things "nicely".

Except that they do this sort of thing fairly regulary; at least half a dozen times in the last 30 years. I'd like the…

I find that cover something of a disgusting distortion of the truth.

And atrocities weren't happening during the 1990s?

An ugly situation which has been clusterfucked thoroughly by the United States, obviously, but we can only deal with what is, not some counterfactual world in which the United States had…

Time magazine's cover this week is a brave one.

I find that cover something of a disgusting distortion of the truth. "What happens if we leave?"?? It happened during a then-8-year-old American occupation.

It's a cynical manipulation of an atrocity, and the usual US-justifying intellectual contortionism we've come to expect…

There's plenty of room for opposing opinions here. State them politely and respectfully, like everyone else.

So I'm accused of being "morally callous" for holding strong views on imperialist war while living in London and I'm a disrespectful prick for making analogous observations in response? Right.

I think there's something in the criticism that the Taliban's records (they don't exist, of course) of atrocities are not being made public, as are those of other countries.

Time magazine's cover this week is a brave one.

The young woman on the cover is named in the first sentence…

I'll stick with Afghan for the moment. Speaking English and all.

George, I'm just going to simply go & bake up a batch – I'll send good thoughts!

And bake…

Well I wouldn't want to spoil your little chit chat with unsavoury views.

There's plenty of room for opposing opinions here. State them politely and respectfully, like everyone else.

And I'm hardly surprised someone from the North Shore of Auckland thinks it's moral callousness to oppose imperial folly and its informants.

Christiaan, do you possess the ability to see other people as anything other than a cypher for your own ever-so-certain politics? You know nothing about Craig and unless…

Can't say I have much sympathy for informants who help imperial invaders

And to be fair, Christiaan, they probably don't give a shit about what some smug middle-class white lefty in London thinks either.

Although I'd guess they'd do you the favour of refraining from wishing you dead. Given that…

dark rich chocolate and cornflakes inside.

Right — with Bob-the-baby asleep I've summoned the energy to check the OED:

Afghan = a person from Afghanistan

afghan = a woollen blanket or shawl (and, presumably, also a biscuit in NZ)

afghani = a monetary unit equal to 100 puls

It seems…

You don't have to, Christiaan, but London's rather unhallowed ground for that kind of moral callousness. Plenty of people out there who would regard any Londoner shredded by a car bomb as asking for everything they get by living in the heart of an "imperial" power.

And I'm hardly surprised…

PAS, every thread is a food thread. I love this place.

Like MPs expenses/sexual activities, I don't want to know, but corruption I want it dealt with.

Potential evidence of war crimes, or at least depictions of the hell of war. This is a horrible…

Really George? I am always willing to learn-

and what did your Mum call those little crunchy choclatey baked things?

(There may be a generational disconjunct here-)

I don't know if the usage I've heard is "correct", or correlates to standard use in any language. It may simply be a…

Can't say I have much sympathy for informants who help imperial invaders

You don't have to, Christiaan, but London's rather unhallowed ground for that kind of moral callousness. Plenty of people out there who would regard any Londoner shredded by a car bomb as asking for everything they get by…

and what did your Mum call those little crunchy choclatey baked things?

(There may be a generational disconjunct here-)

As far as I know, the afghani is a unit of currency.

Yep. 'Afghani' also = 'from Afghanistan', like 'Scottish' = 'from Scotland'.

Slightly confusing, I suppose, when the Afghani prime minister is an Afghan (though not really, since the English prime minister is an Englishman).

(ETA: at least, that's…

Not to be an annoying pedant here — this is a genuine question — but is 'Afghani' really the word for someone from Afghanistan?

I thought that certain collective nouns could take an -i, such as Talibani. I don't speak Pashto or Farsi/Parsi/Persian, so this is just what seems to…

Or, if you are an Afghani who has helped the US Army, does having your name published on Wikileaks really constitute "opening up information" as opposed to "being dead meat"?

Not to be an annoying pedant here — this is a genuine question — but is 'Afghani' really the word…

But does publishing people's tax records – for no obvious reason – really constitute "opening up information" as opposed to "being dicks"?

Publishing the tax returns of a rich tax evader is being a dick?

Or, if you are an Afghani who has helped the US Army, does having your…

Or, if you are an Afghani who has helped the US Army, does having your name published on Wikileaks really constitute "opening up information" as opposed to "being dead meat"?

That could happen, but US military action actually has led to the deaths of something like 10-30,000 civilians in Afghanistan…

But does publishing people's tax records – for no obvious reason – really constitute "opening up information" as opposed to "being dicks"?

Or, if you are an Afghani who has helped the US Army, does having your name published on Wikileaks really constitute "opening up information" as opposed to "being…

Seems to me that many are simply pissed off at Wikileaks for opening up information to the peasants. How can they be part of the chattering classes if they don't have a monopoly on information?

But does publishing people's tax records – for no obvious reason – really constitute "opening…

Some will see this wariness of Wikileaks ... as mere professional jealousy

Seems to me…

So, how long is it going to be before the unbelievers find their tax returns on Wikileaks? And will there be any accountability whatsoever?

Hopefully never. But Assange — so composed and precise on camera — sometimes doesn't set a great example when he posts his blog comments.

Aftergood and other critics are routinely accused of being in the pay of the Pentagon. In their readiness for the fray, their certainty, their willingness to allege an agenda, some of the keenest fans remind me of any other sort of conspiracist.

So, how long is it going to be…