Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Vision and dumbassery

Greg Dawson

Sun, 21 Sep 2014 12:43:59 +1200

Thanks for posting this – I hadn't found video of the guy, just read the paper that came out a wee while ago. Was one of my "reassure myself that not all people are naturally awful" things during the campaign :)

Really interesting study/findings.

mark taslov

Sun, 21 Sep 2014 12:11:48 +1200

Thanks Andin, I wikied him at the time but as is patently obvious I wasn't too much in the mood for reading yesterday so I'll have a watch of this after work.

andin

Sun, 21 Sep 2014 10:44:31 +1200

reading back again just now I see Andin. you didn’t call me an asshole either,
Umm No but glad you got it sorted :-)
A lot of people's self interest at work in this election. To be expected I guess.
Its the great motivator for all of us. As to…

Bart Janssen

Sun, 21 Sep 2014 09:28:20 +1200

I’m going to rectify this

rectify??? really?? you went there?

What an asshole*.

Sorry I just had to call you that in order to complete the circle :)

* and just in case I fail on tone – no I don't mean it at all.

nzlemming

Sun, 21 Sep 2014 08:58:14 +1200

An incredible blunder on my part and I’ve no idea how I’m going to rectify this

I did wonder where the hell you were going with this ;-)

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 21 Sep 2014 08:48:28 +1200

I see the “asshole” you were referring to was not the “asshole” … called me. Perhaps too many “assholes” being thrown around, perhaps too many assholes
we all need reminders of the
Eternal Riddle of the Sphincter
er, Sphinx:
"A thing there is whose voice is one;
Whose feet are…

Bart Janssen

Sun, 21 Sep 2014 08:08:51 +1200

And sorry Bart

No worries Mark. I was AFK being a yuppie (more correctly a dink since I can no longer be called young) yesterday after voting, so it all went over my head :).

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 21 Sep 2014 03:04:00 +1200

WOTY: Dumbassery! It refers to so many for so long and Jesus ,does it work.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 21 Sep 2014 03:01:58 +1200

He’s a liar, his legacy as PM has been increasing debt New Zealand by 80b, there’s currently 48 billion dollars in farming debt. In amassing the national debt he has cut welfare and assistance to people in need, enlarging the gap between the rich and the poor in a country…

mark taslov

Sun, 21 Sep 2014 01:15:53 +1200

LOL and reading back again just now I see Andin. you didn’t call me an asshole either, So no one called me an asshole, which is always a good day, and I’ve just attacked both you Andin and Bart over 2 lengthy vitriolic posts for calling me an asshole. That’s…

mark taslov

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 22:55:55 +1200

I just wish that such a cabel of clever people saw some merit in Mr. Key’s effort as PM but hey, that’s tooth fairy stuff.
Over and out.

He’s a liar, his legacy as PM has been increasing debt New Zealand by 80b, there’s currently 48 billion dollars in farming…

mark taslov

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 21:48:56 +1200

And sorry Bart, I see the “asshole” you were referring to was not the “asshole” andin called me. Perhaps too many “assholes” being thrown around, perhaps too many assholes. I’m more than a little sensitive and overly passionate about this and just fucking angry watching this election result.

I meant…

mark taslov

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 21:16:30 +1200

Thanks for that Tussock, and obviously not referring to you, I am mortified that any so-called athiest or agnostic is so willing and able to believe and accept anything but the dirty rotten deepset truth here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqrAPOZxgzU

deniers.

Chris Waugh

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 21:14:19 +1200

Meanwhile, in Australia:

The government will further seek powers to proscribe visits to cities or regions where terror groups are active.

People travelling to such areas without a valid reason could face prosecution.

"There's legislation that will shortly come before the Parliament to boost the range of offences," Abbott said…

tussock

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:56:20 +1200

In the 50's we went to war in Korea on the promise the Yanks would buy our wool for their military uniforms. The associated wool boom made a lot of people quite wealthy (farmers got £1 per 1 lb. on coarse fibre).

In real terms that's nearly four times the…

Joe Wylie

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:39:33 +1200

Gower otter. Spooky.

mark taslov

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:35:28 +1200

The lack of empathy, the ease with which pain is caused in others for his (assuming here) own entertainment. It’s all part of a larger picture that defines the things we need to change to become a genuinely caring and responsible country.

Empathy, by definition, is not dismissing anyone, at…

mark taslov

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 19:06:54 +1200

Egypt or Bust – The Pedalling Machine Gunner (1998) – listen, I dare you.

So its not as simple as good or evil. We have to start asking ourselves better questions.

To be very clear about my attitude here Andin. I left New Zealand in 2003 because of New Zealand’s…

tussock

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:35:26 +1200

Good to see everyone not talking politics today, then.

andin

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 14:26:51 +1200

The first is mainline Confucianism, which, for all its patriarchal mysogyny, is essentially optimistic about human nature. All we need to do is make sure our kids are raised in a good environment and get a good education, and they’ll turn out good. The second leads to Han Feizi and…

David Hood

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:41:52 +1200

Google flu trends has been much less effective in the long terms than it was first thought. but. Other sources like wikipedia search frequency have also been used.

Sacha

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:27:35 +1200

Thank you.

Sacha

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:27:18 +1200

the person making the call needs to be able to ask and accept help when they lack the knowledge themselves

Hence humility has long been regarded as part of good character. None of this stuff is new. People are people. That's why we regulate power, including by teaching, recruiting, monitoring…

jack starrow

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:17:02 +1200

I said I wouldn't post again and I intend to honour that pledge. But it has been pricking my conscience that an apology is in order. I apologise for that remark that Sacha has called me an "arsehole" for making. But in no way trying to justify that remark, I…

Bart Janssen

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:10:07 +1200

Character counts.

Yeah character and knowledge combined are needed.

They don't need to be in the same person but the person making the call needs to be able to ask and accept help when they lack the knowledge themselves, that sounds easy but it is incredibly hard to do consistently.…

Bart Janssen

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:04:55 +1200

some group in the US

Yeah both Google and twitter have shown they can follow flu outbreaks faster than the CDC by tracking common phrases associated with flu e.g. I feel like death warmed up and all my joints ache but I'm still going to work to spread my disease…

Chris Waugh

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:47:37 +1200

A poignant question to ask yourself is do you believe that humans are essentially good or evil?

That really is a pointless question.

No it isn't. Are you with Mencius in believing that people are essentially good, but environment, education (or lack thereof) and upbringing determine whether they turn out…

Sacha

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:43:39 +1200

we need wise and responsible government

Ethical oversight is essential, regardless of technology or policy aspects. Selecting only the best people for such responsibilities is important. Character counts.

Chris Waugh

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:35:17 +1200

We’ve gone from guessing that cholera has something to do with one well in London

Isn't there some group in the US that monitors internet chatter and has picked up outbreaks of disease, including the current Ebola outbreak, long before anybody else has noticed? Too early in the morning, not…

Russell Brown

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:17:12 +1200

Hi folks. I've already had to delete one comment this morning — please don't post anything that could be seen to influence any other person's voting intentions. The rules are harsh:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1111/S00555/media-activity-on-election-day.htm

andin

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 08:05:29 +1200

A poignant question to ask yourself is do you believe that humans are essentially good or evil?

That really is a pointless question. Anyone can believe what they like about humanity en masse, the binary choices offered tho' mean nothing.

Bart Janssen

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 07:31:32 +1200

Surely resistance to what is morally wrong can never be futile.

No, of course not.

But the technology is not at fault here. Consider the ability to collect and process large amounts of data. The technology exists and some of its uses are abhorent but the same technology is being…

Bart Janssen

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 07:20:31 +1200

asshole

Agreed. While the rest of it was annoying, that and the diatribe immediately prior was simply nasty.

And also a salutary lesson in just how we are from where we want to be in this country. The lack of empathy, the ease with which pain is caused in others…

mark taslov

Sat, 20 Sep 2014 01:06:42 +1200

Katharine, though I don’t agree with everything in them by a big stretch I think these articles may offer some perspective. They are written by David Wong (Jason Pargin), author of John Dies at the End. He’s in the US where unlike our own John, Obama did come right out…

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 23:10:45 +1200

Sorry, to be clear about that, by progress, I’m referring to technology; cellphones, the net, you can redefine your relationship to it. Most importantly New Zealand and these other 4 nations are allies, and therefore terms can be negotiated to an extent, as David Lange did so beautifully on March…

Sacha

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 23:02:35 +1200

sheltered workshop

asshole

Katharine Moody

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 22:52:20 +1200

Mainly we know that there’s nothing we can do to rewind the progress that brought us here.

The problem as I see it is that if the "we" that are here breathing today don't somehow try and rewind what you refer to as "progress" (i.e., indiscriminate data collection, the vast…

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 22:05:46 +1200

Andin, look I know the context of the phrase, and if anyone he *may* even have been one of the last hopes of resisting this. But I’m not an ostrich, China has had this kind of technology and been engaging in this kind of mass surveillance since before I arrived…

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:59:29 +1200

As a pacifist with an ideal vision of New Zealand as an independent nation I’d dispute myself there to. I’m trying to placate people, Some of the commentators on Toby Manhire’s masterpiece appear incredibly distraught. But relative to the first and second world war our losses have been marginal. Has New…

andin

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:56:27 +1200

the only thing to fear is fear itself.
Taking a well worn phrase and applying it to any context robs it of its vitality and meaning. You should find out the context and circumstances in which it was said
I think Helen Clark has the money quote there.
Your opinion…

nzlemming

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:39:35 +1200

Our membership of the 5eyes alliance has kept New Zealand free from serious conflict since inception.

I'd dispute that. We went to Korea, we went to Vietnam, we went to Afghanistan, we've had peacekeepers in all the major trouble spots. What we've had to our advantage is being in the…

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:19:22 +1200

Which is perfectly true, up to a point but not as far as some people seem determined to push it. There is such a thing as keeping the State in its place, and I would strenuously argue that place is reading my mail only under extreme, specific and strictly circumscribed…

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:03:57 +1200

You could probably say that it's still the country the British negotiated the treaty for. Nothing changed dramatically this week or even last year beneath the hype, and I honestly believe that the only thing to fear is fear itself. Perhaps I drank the koolaid but following things vaguely I…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 19:19:07 +1200

He had a read through what I wrote and told me it was the tip of the iceberg and basically spun off the same kind of line as Michael Hadyn had that you just need to embrace it because Government surveillance of NZ citizenry has been going on for ages,…

Angela Hart

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 19:06:55 +1200

told me it was the tip of the iceberg and basically spun off the same kind of line as Michael Hadyn had that you just need to embrace it because Government surveillance of NZ citizenry has been going on for ages, mass surveillance for over a decade,

It's only one…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 17:03:57 +1200

PARTY VOTE Bad water!
Because profit is more important than the clean water that a nation depends on. Sounds familiar.
Subliminal truth in the placement of a sticker...

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 16:42:56 +1200

Yeah, you’re right Greg, thanks for pointing me in the right direction, I’ve spoken to a lawyer, who also referred me to the New Zealand Law Society’s report. He had a read through what I wrote and told me it was the tip of the iceberg and basically spun off…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 16:24:05 +1200

Protest scuppers John Key's mall visit
A visit by the Prime Minister to a mall in Rotorua had to be abandoned abruptly this morning because of an Internet Mana protest.

Greg Dawson

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 16:14:16 +1200

Because profit is more important than the clean water that a nation depends on. Sounds familiar.

Kumara Republic

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:38:58 +1200

Oh, neither am I, and tbh why bother when it’ll all be over-ridden by some unknown clause in the TPPA anyway?

Radio NZ: NZ warned over goldmine legal action

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:19:51 +1200

but anyway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrgwJckyv2g

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:01:13 +1200

nothing can be collected without a warrant

“nothing” meaning: absolutely no communication, "private" or otherwise.

“collected” meaning: intercepted* by the GCSB.

*needs a prescribed interpretation

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:43:38 +1200

And sorry [correction] I mistitled “Section 16” above, it was amended as “Section 15” last year; (2)(b) still applies. The only other section I can find “private communications” mentioned is Section 15B”:

“15B Involvement of Commissioner of Security Warrants

“(1) An application for, and issue of, an interception warrant or…

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 13:57:05 +1200

Yes, true, no lack of legal minds in New Zealand, actually with due respect to Helen Clark, I'd assumed she was a lawyer, checking now I see she's not so I should rein that in.

tangentially I have received three Adware Adinstaller.Astomenda attacks in the last 5 minutes.

Greg Dawson

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 13:46:50 +1200

Based on an admittedly skewed sample of legal bloggers in NZ, I don't think it's the legal minds that we lack. Instead it's that the politicians keep treating expert advice like the car keys, and giving it to the pilot.

Hopefully it doesn't just come down to NZ for the…

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 13:30:15 +1200

Oh, neither am I, and tbh why bother when it’ll all be over-ridden by some unknown clause in the TPPA anyway?

If the country lies down like a soggy rights reneging dishcloth as it clearly seems to have done since I left, then quite possibly yes. defo buddy.

Thanks for…

Greg Dawson

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 13:16:45 +1200

I don’t know, I’m no lawyer. anyway, have a go

Oh, neither am I, and tbh why bother when it'll all be over-ridden by some unknown clause in the TPPA anyway?

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 13:15:45 +1200

That may be right, I’m not lawyer and I left my grammar in 1996 but we need to remove any exploitable loophole for the *circumstance* in which NZer's is collected here because this section deals with interception without a warrant. Hopefully there’s some legal mind in New Zealand who can…

Greg Dawson

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 13:14:18 +1200

(b) does not authorise anything to be done for the purpose of intercepting all communications of a New Zealand citizen or permanent resident of New Zealand.

Obvious rejoinder from weasel spy : we didn’t take all the communications, only some of them. Perhaps the word “any” would suit better.

Edit:…

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 13:03:47 +1200

This sits strangely with the cup of tea affair, arranged as PR, in a public place, surrounded by journos but with an angrily claimed expectation of privacy from the PM himself.

Spurred by Russell’s mention of equivocations so I thought I’d come back to this as I didn’t pick up…

Richard Aston

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:21:00 +1200

You know we can’t change the government with our ghost votes.

Want a chip bro?

BenWilson

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 11:01:09 +1200

To Ben Wilson for sharing the Internalized Really Complicated Situation in his head as he works out

You know we can't change the government with our ghost votes.

Joe Wylie

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:41:46 +1200

Remember that day when he had kids?

Back when I went to school the expression was "having kittens".

Emma Hart

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:35:28 +1200

I wonder whether he’ll show his coworkers how low he was prepared to go for fun.

And his kids. Remember that day when he had kids?

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:16:27 +1200

There is a season, worms, worms, worms
It's those early Byrds that reap...
;- )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_M5Zdn4

Paul Campbell

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:02:54 +1200

When our annoying troller named 'jack'
Promised us he'd never come back
Our 'twisted selves' all really knew
He was hitting refresh despite his adieu
To see if anyone had noticed his lack

Russell Brown

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:02:32 +1200

dancing on the line of acceptability

That’s still one of my favourite songs of the 80s.

But the video! Man, those haircuts ...

giovanni tiso

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:58:18 +1200

dancing on the line of acceptability

That's still one of my favourite songs of the 80s.

Joe Wylie

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:53:58 +1200

Send in the Worms!
There is a season, worms, worms, worms
And a time to every purpose under heaven.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:50:53 +1200

Just like John Key. My word is my bond!
I have no intention of ever ever contacting this site ever ever again
What's that,
3 hours since you said farewell forever,
the first time?

Cold turkey is a bitch, isn't it...

Dude needs help.

But what a waste of carbon...…

jack starrow

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:41:47 +1200

Don’t worry your twisted selves. I have no intention of ever evr contacting this site ever ever again. It’s too dmn depressing. And remember, th abuse I’ve received far outweighs ny givn back. Nw ll lnk rms nd hm.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:39:33 +1200

through the 'ringer'...
Sadly if the trolls win in the shire election
the fallout will be unbearable, if not Orcwood,
it'll be back down into the caves for us...

Here's a wee reminder of shelter etiquette:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ4TdNGcd_c#t=189

from boingboing

Dean Wallis

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:38:45 +1200

it wouldn’t be too hard to pin down who exactly it is

I for one would love to know. It would be satisfying to troll-bait his den and see if he really enjoys anonymous posters.

Greg Dawson

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:27:59 +1200

Given a combination of IP(s) from posts and his claims to be a member of our friendly auckland media elite, it wouldn't be too hard to pin down who exactly it is. Although OGH's comments about going back to sports commentary imply he probably already knows.

Danielle

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:27:38 +1200

What kills me is that he wasn't even very good at being a troll. If he hadn't done such a stupid megaflounce he could have kept baiting everyone for months or years while dancing on the line of acceptability. But no! Bad at arguing AND bad at trolling. Poor guy.

Bart Janssen

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:25:19 +1200

I'm glad to be part of this non-abusive group of left wing snobs.

Even though sometimes we slip into abuse, we pretty much always own up to it and apologise.

I wonder whether he'll show his coworkers how low he was prepared to go for fun.

Dean Wallis

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:18:08 +1200

My workmates really loved the impact I kept making.

It must be a barrel of laughs at that carwash

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:11:23 +1200

like a boomerang

Dingo!

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:02:45 +1200

It's fast looking like a job for the....
New Zealand Harassment Act 1997
Section 3: Meaning of Harassment
…….a pattern of behaviour that includes doing any specified act
directed against that person on 2 separate occasions within 12
month period (may not be the same person as long as the…

freddy krueger

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:48:54 +1200

I'm back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Russell Brown

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:39:11 +1200

Another day in the sheltered workshop coming up Paul?

Fuck you. I've banned this, your third account here and that comment says to me that I should have done so much sooner. Don't come back.

Paul Campbell

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:36:38 +1200

well maybe not an arrow, maybe more like a boomerang

John Farrell

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:29:41 +1200

And the unflounce.

Jake Starrow

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:26:55 +1200

Pitiful Paul. Really, really pitiful.
Another day in the sheltered workshop coming up Paul?

Paul Campbell

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:11:32 +1200

There once was a troll here named 'Starrow'
Who carried water for Key in his barrow
On the eve of the election
He changed his direction
And fled from this place like an arrow

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:00:37 +1200

I hadn’t read right to the bottom of his post and when I did I felt it needed some revision. I’m always willing to give the benefit of the doubt, as has been accorded me – as you quite fittingly point out.

Trollathons like that in this climate are likely…

John Farrell

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:35:25 +1200

Ah, the troll flounce.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:32:11 +1200

Word!
Life isn’t about how you fall down,
but how you get back up
...and who offers you a hand!

Good to see someone
has the forgiveness
thing well in hand...

"Be yourself,
everyone else is taken"
- Oscar Wilde

Russell Brown

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:19:37 +1200

But before I go, I really should thank you all.
I’ve genuinely never had so much fun in a long time.
And that’s all due to the remarkable attention I’ve received.

And like most trolls, that’s what you were after. I did persist, but I don’t think you were really…

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:11:37 +1200

Soup Kitchen $3, Tuesday.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 06:53:17 +1200

What they do in the shadows, indeed…

Jake Starrow

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 06:22:19 +1200

"On Planet Key, there are no toilets. That's why Jake Starrow is full of shit." Steve Barnes.
Brilliant Steve. I bet you felt extra pleased with yourself after that outburst. Because you know that effort was your pea-sized brain operating in over-drive, stretched to full capacity.
You really hoped that…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 03:16:28 +1200

Which reminds me. Fiji election! They have there democracy back!

That is, for anyone who can play Sudoku or Bingo.

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 01:43:23 +1200

Thanks for the pdf Mark, that's beaut.

mark taslov

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 00:33:48 +1200

Get the feeling that Australians are extremely grateful that comprehensive surveillance has resulted in a handful of crazed jihadists being apprehended today, allegedly planning to behead somebody.
Surveillance is there to catch baddies, not goodies.
Thankfully here, the Moment of Truth became the Moment of Farce.

Reminded me so much…

nzlemming

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 00:28:38 +1200

‘Hopster! Hopster! Help! Help! Stopster!’ they screamed

See, Russell? This is why we need a Like button ;-)

nzlemming

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 00:27:08 +1200

If anyone's interested, I scraped Derek Cheng's liveblog from the Harald and formatted it nicely ;-)

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 23:41:51 +1200

* may contain Photoshop

Don't harsh my buzz man

nzlemming

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 23:24:13 +1200

Doing the rounds on FB*

* may contain Photoshop

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 23:23:59 +1200

Not a lot of songs about Vera Lynn.

Timing is of the essence. That's weird I wrote 'bout Stella on dirty Politics thread and you posted that. Stream of consciousness man . And no offence either, in case you were going there.

Joe Wylie

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 23:10:32 +1200

Not a lot of songs about Vera Lynn.

Vera Lynn, Vera Lynn,
cleanse us with your healing grin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBqn8RYIHCU

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 23:10:29 +1200

I just put up a message for you over at Dirty pols

Steve Barnes

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:59:34 +1200

Back in Gotham…. (capital city of Globalcorp, planet Key)
It was not me it was…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHZUejGPdSk

Bart Janssen

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:58:33 +1200

So the good stay good and the bad get worse.

Wow way to cheer me up dude!

BenWilson

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:58:04 +1200

Leaves me cold ;-)

'Hopster! Hopster! Help! Help! Stopster!' they screamed

Sacha

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:40:14 +1200

interesting, thanks

But when you apply the study conclusions to the internet as a whole, you get exactly what we’re seeing now: communities like Reddit and 4chan are criticized (negative feedback), and begin to see themselves as persecuted. Their worst sides gain strength. The volume of negative output increases, and…

Sacha

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:32:29 +1200

sorry, worth it

Sacha

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:28:01 +1200

heh

Steve Barnes

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:15:10 +1200

Whale meat again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHcunREYzNY&list=RDcHcunREYzNY#t=0

stephen clover

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:04:50 +1200

"whale oil -whaleoil -slater -beef"

Steve Barnes

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:59:54 +1200

Genius. Have wanted that for many years.
Then I should take this moment to say,,,, Byeeeee.... ;-)

Steve Barnes

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:55:07 +1200

Jake Scarrow lives on planet Key. On planet key there are no toilets So that is why Jack Scarrow is full of shit.

Sacha

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:52:44 +1200

When you click the button, it hides all other posts by that user afterwards

Genius. Have wanted that for many years.

nzlemming

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:51:42 +1200

Love your avatar, Joe. I only just realised :-)

Leaves me cold ;-)

Steve Barnes

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:48:50 +1200

concrete jandal,And the livin' is easy.
Props to Marley...
And Michael Homer.

Trevor Nicholls

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:47:57 +1200

Love your avatar, Joe. I only just realised :-)

Joe Wylie

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:45:26 +1200

That would be the low grade black whale. Sperm whale was clean burning ( still is )

For really high quality grease the pishtaco is the expert.

Sacha

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:40:07 +1200

That would be the low grade black whale. Sperm whale was clean burning

really don't want to carry this metaphor to its ending

nzlemming

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:39:13 +1200

Which reminds me. Fiji election! They have there democracy back!

#yeahright

Greg Dawson

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:22:16 +1200

I suspect the most effective way of dealing with a troll’s persistence is literally to ignore him. He will eventually literally go away.

Pertinent discussion at making light on just this subject – the first few comments are worth reading – based on some recently published research into the effects…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:17:59 +1200

even if it also eats my riposte?

Swine/pearl filter.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:15:40 +1200

Awesome, even if it also eats my riposte?

Trevor Nicholls

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:10:04 +1200

Do we have to pick a side: surveillance is here and it's a bad thing (IMP), surveillance is a really good thing but we don't do it here, oh no (JK).

The Jakes of this world act as though they don't know what's going on, don't need to know what's…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:05:31 +1200

See Michael Homer's links, around 19 posts upthread.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:02:29 +1200

Brilliant. Can I have a copy.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 21:01:54 +1200

Or, they caught a few loonies who shouted a lot about it whilst giving many innocent muslim kids a genuine grievance.. Some of those might not talk about it, they'll just do it.

I think most people here would rather live (as we do) in a society where people get…

Dismal Soyanz

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:52:17 +1200

I could even burn old whales oil

Nah, the filthy contaminants would foul up everything.

This from wiki seemed on the money:

Whale oil was used as a cheap illuminant, though it gave off a strong odor when burnt and was not very popular.

Jake Starrow

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:48:14 +1200

Michael Savidge

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 19:27:54 +1200

Nice one Richard.

BenWilson

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 19:06:18 +1200

Yes that’s a bit of a bummer about kelvin Davis. I am going to vote for IM anyway. Bugger the polsters.

Good call. It's still a signal, even it if doesn't result in political power.

Paul Campbell

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 18:55:36 +1200

So Key didn't publish the name of his staffer who passed the SIS emails to (spit) Slater ... because he wanted to protect his privacy .... the rest of us apparently don't deserve privacy, on planet key it's apparently only available to National party toadies

stephen clover

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 18:50:43 +1200

Michael, I love you :)

stephen clover

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 18:37:25 +1200

In relation to this, I’d contend that John Key isn’t leading National at all, at least in a traditional way. Sure, he’s the party leader and the PM, but his main criteria for selection has been as a marketing figurehead to sit in front.

Exactly. He’s basically a very powerful…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 18:36:28 +1200

Over the last week or so I’ve been gradually growing a Greasemonkey script that adds a little “Ignore” button next to posts. When you click the button, it hides all other posts by that user afterwards, as well as any direct replies to them.
How about that, it's just like…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 18:14:38 +1200

the bogey man…
Par for the (golf) course on Planet Key
…that’ll be the Stableford he’s playing.
Stableford can have the added benefit of speeding up the pace of play, as once it is no longer possible to score a point, a player does not have to complete the hole…

Trevor Nicholls

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 18:04:35 +1200

Oh the irony.
Vote for a Labour candidate in TeTaiTokerau to kill IM and boost the chances of a coalition of the right.
Vote for a National candidate in Epsom to kill ACT and boost the chances of a coalition of the left.

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 18:00:35 +1200

Yes that’s a bit of a bummer about kelvin Davis. I am going to vote for IM anyway. Bugger the polsters.

You rebel you ;). T'was up in the big K the other day, so was John Campbell TV crew doing their lolly poll for Te Tai Tokerau (sp ?))seat.…

nzlemming

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:56:31 +1200

Is it just me or was that a total non sequiter?

Par for the (golf) course on Planet Key

Steve Barnes

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:54:49 +1200

They threw every single egg into the same basket,My Granny always said that was the best thing to do, saved having two baskets to carry. She also said "Everybody loves a smart arse" and "When in Rome.... fiddle" she would have loved John Key.
She's dead now of course..

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:47:22 +1200

Gold, myrrh and frank...
...incensed at the concept of “Team Key”
I liked that Glenn Greenwald at the 'Event' only called him
'President Key' once, and corrected himself, quickly...

Trevor Nicholls

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:38:27 +1200

the concept of "Team Key"

All the literature that has made it to my letterbox in the last month looks like it has been through a "s/National/John Key's National/g" script.

John Key's National Government. John Key's National-led. John Key's National Party. The John Key's National policies.

They threw every single…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:34:40 +1200

We have a parliamentary democracy – we don’t vote for the PM – we vote for parties who in turn choose their PM and cabinet –Which is why I have been so incensed at the concept of "Team Key".
Its just wrong.

Michael Homer

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:23:00 +1200

Over the last week or so I've been gradually growing a Greasemonkey script that adds a little "Ignore" button next to posts. When you click the button, it hides all other posts by that user afterwards, as well as any direct replies to them. Hidden posts are collapsed to one…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:05:37 +1200

Not sure for the conclusion if no coherent sentence can be formed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq_hztHJCM4

Dismal Soyanz

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:45:22 +1200

Just about everyone who works for government handles sensitive information at some point during their working day.

I'm not convinced that his move to the private sector changes anything. If it were applicable, wouldn't privacy apply to staff whether current or former? (But then again Judith kinda trashed that one.)…

Kim_Wright

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:42:36 +1200

Non sequitors seem to be his bread and butter response.

I have just invented a drinking word game to play while awaiting for the election results on Saturday night.

1) Transcribed all of Johns Key's recent answers to questions about dirty politics and the GSCB, onto separate pieces of paper…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:28:07 +1200

What a sh*t!
Is it just me or was that a total non sequitur?
I think that was all pro squitter!
It's not far from fecal to feral...

:- )
keeping it scatological, since 2006

andin

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:26:09 +1200

Hahahahahhaaaaaaaahahahahhaaaa. nothing idiotic in there.
swinging...keys in the bowl.. hahahaaaaaahahahaha
Great

Kim_Wright

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:22:08 +1200

The Greens are bad m'kay

John Ansell 'activist' justifies his attack billboards. I have been driving past one of these most days, but to me "Red Alert: Labour means 30% Greens" is a good thing, and I am definitely in his target market.

feeble defence of dirty politics

simon g

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:12:59 +1200

Stuff has the full quote:

"The only reason we didn't name names is simply because these people handle sensitive information and in the case of Phil de Joux he now works in the private sector, so it's really just a privacy matter, but it's no big deal one way or…

mark taslov

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:07:55 +1200

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5nIskDdYM8
Always a pleasure!

Dismal Soyanz

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 16:04:39 +1200

Mr Key says the Ombudsman’s ruling is fine by him.
"Totally comfortable with that, the only reason we didn't name names is just simply because these people handle sensitive information, and in the case of Phil de Joux he now works in the private sector."

Is it just me or…

John Farrell

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:59:33 +1200

You poor thing.

simon g

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:51:40 +1200

It's been linked to on another thread, but it's worth adding here, because this kind of real news is exactly WHY Key and his trolls try to divert and distract:

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/798623855-ombudsman-overrules-key-over-naming-of-staffer

That is huge news, it goes to the very core of the Prime Minister's personal integrity, but the clock…

Richard Aston

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:37:06 +1200

I am just loving this thread , loving it. I just wished I had more time to contribute but at the very least I want to thank some here in what little time I do have .

To izogi for a great take on the dark side of presidential branding…

nzlemming

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:30:54 +1200

A good point Angela, however it fascinates me to see if we can actually tease out something that would enlighten us all.

You won't. There's nothing there. His mission is to make PAS unpleasant as place for actual, rational discussion, much like the Standard comments section has become. Discussions here…

Trevor Nicholls

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:30:40 +1200

That's all I can come up with.

You make statements. People dissect them and critique them. You refer them back to your statements. That's not a discussion, or even an argument.

Thank God NZ has your incisive and articulate mind to inform us of the realities of life. Without you…

Jake Starrow

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:25:52 +1200

I'm baffled too Angela. All this attention on a humble right-wing, Key fan.
Maybe its just that, I attract all this ant-rhetoric because I'm not a paid-up member of the PA Cosy-Club.
As you'll notice, I get a lot of abuse but fear of a stranger can and does provoke…

Sam F

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:24:51 +1200

As I"ve repeated. I did dissect my praise for Key on Page 4 of the 2014 Methane Election topic which I suspect may have answered many of Ian’s musings.
Please refer and get back to me.

Ian's post is actually a response to that page 4 post you're referring to…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:06:06 +1200

Cortina trap...
- Caught in a logic loop.
I know there are no such words as “bitter” or “cynical” or “envious” or phrases such as “chip-on -the-shoulder” on Planet Key.

Daisy, Daisy give me your answer do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8N72t7aScY

Dave is the man to shut this rogue trading program…

mark taslov

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:05:06 +1200

I’ve felt they needed more mongrel to survive/achieve their potential.

A notable lack of sandals.

Trevor Nicholls

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:00:57 +1200

I know there are no such words as "bitter" or "cynical" or "envious" or phrases such as "chip-on -the-shoulder" on Planet Key.

On Planet Key there is no middle ground. John Key is right and anyone else is wrong. Throughout his changing stories, First Citizen John Key has been right…

krothville

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:00:23 +1200

+1.
I've been lurking on PA for a number of years because I really enjoy this place, its lack of trolls, and the ability of people in the comments section to respond rationally and with evidence to differences of opinion.

Dean Wallis

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:55:33 +1200

Why encourage him? He’s distracting, he’s annoying and he’s wasting time we could be spending in a valuable exchange of ideas and information.

A good point Angela, however it fascinates me to see if we can actually tease out something that would enlighten us all. I have recently been swapping…

Dean Wallis

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:36:18 +1200

I know there are no such words as “bitter” or “cynical” or “envious” or phrases such as “chip-on -the-shoulder” on Planet Key.

How about "delusional"?

Richard Aston

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:36:09 +1200

Why encourage him? He’s distracting, he’s annoying and he’s wasting time we could be spending in a valuable exchange of ideas and information. IMHO he’s best ignored, attempts to get him to engage in sensible discourse have been made aplenty.
On the other hand we wouldn’t have had Ian’s pearl…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:30:38 +1200

Warning Will Robinson! Warning!
As I"ve repeated. I did dissect my praise for Key on Page 4 of the 2014 Methane Election topic which I suspect may have answered many of Ian’s musings.
Please refer and get back to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1OBL5J_n98
I think we've crossed the Turing Horizon on this…

Paul Campbell

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:28:42 +1200

I know there are no such words as “bitter” or “cynical” or “envious” or phrases such as “chip-on -the-shoulder” on Planet Key.

so I guess Judith's now on a different planet then

Paul Campbell

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:26:31 +1200

We have a parliamentary democracy – we don't vote for the PM – we vote for parties who in turn choose their PM and cabinet – they can even kick out a PM mid term and appoint another without holding an election – all they have to be able to…

Jake Starrow

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:26:01 +1200

I know there are no such words as "bitter" or "cynical" or "envious" or phrases such as "chip-on -the-shoulder" on Planet Key.

BenWilson

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:25:16 +1200

And the Greens just come across as such wet tossers these days, to be frank.

That's not my take. They go plenty hard enough, but their focus is not mine. I'd be quite happy for them to cover that focus full time and for their social/economic policy to remain in…

Dismal Soyanz

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:21:21 +1200

Ha!

"John Key is not the PM you are looking for. Move along."

Angela Hart

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:20:22 +1200

Why encourage him? He's distracting, he's annoying and he's wasting time we could be spending in a valuable exchange of ideas and information. IMHO he's best ignored, attempts to get him to engage in sensible discourse have been made aplenty.
On the other hand we wouldn't have had Ian's pearl…

BenWilson

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:17:18 +1200

On Planet Key I am not sure what language is spoken, could it be Troll?

Listen for the Jamaican accents

BenWilson

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:16:10 +1200

My point is that personality-driven politics or government can be good or bad for democracy. Lange, Kennedy, Clark…..good. Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Key bad.
But not all bad.

There, fixed that up for you. But why Godwin a perfectly good concern troll?

Greg Dawson

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:13:40 +1200

The most important aspect of any potential priminister is well known to be his or her competence at the wearing of common business attire.

I have not seen you address the crucial question of why you believe Key is a more accomplished dresser than Cunliffe, when clearly this is the…

Jake Starrow

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:13:05 +1200

My point is that personality-driven politics or government can be good or bad for democracy. Lange, Kennedy, Clark, Key…..good. Mao, Hitler, Stalin bad.
But not all bad.

Dean Wallis

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:08:13 +1200

Were the following governments ineffectual because of their big-personality leaders…eg Lange, Clark, Obama, Thatcher, Clinton, Kennedy etc etc?

Don't forget Hitler, Stalin and Mao. I'm a little unclear on your point?

linger

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:02:35 +1200

whenever he’s genuinely challenged he falls to bits and starts lashing out in random directions with immature insults instead of actually addressing points.Scarily, that may well be a selling point for some of his supporters.

Were the following governments ineffectual This doesn’t negate the point that personality shouldn’t be allowed…

Jake Starrow

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 14:02:04 +1200

Perception but not reality Danielle. Politics are invariably personality-driven and aren't what good or bad governments are ultimately judged on.
Were the following governments ineffectual because of their big-personality leaders...eg Lange, Clark, Obama, Thatcher, Clinton, Kennedy etc etc?
I suspect backing off any attempt to table Cunliffe's strengths is in…

Danielle

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:52:47 +1200

There are like four posts up there talking about how personality-driven politics are inherently bad for democracy and therefore Cunliffe's personal qualities are less important than the policies each party espouses, so feel free to engage with that argument any time you like.

izogi

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:52:38 +1200

Isogi gives a coherent argument in looking past Cunliffe in order to justify voting for Labour but I contend that the leader’s strengths or otherwise are a critical factor.

In relation to this, I’d contend that John Key isn’t leading National at all, at least in a traditional way. Sure,…

Dean Wallis

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:52:05 +1200

let me repeat. I don’t understand Ian’s lingo. Is it commonly spoken where you come from?

Planet Earth? It is quite common and that example is very, very clever.

On Planet Key I am not sure what language is spoken, could it be Troll?

Jake Starrow

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:50:05 +1200

You any serious ideas on why Cunliffe would be a competent PM? That would mean putting aside your cynicism for just a short while.
Too much to ask?

Danielle

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:46:29 +1200

"Sam, I hereby refer you to chapter three, subsection a, paragraph b of my self-published seventeen volume Key hagiography, entitled Gee, That John Key Fellow Sure Is Great."

AndrewH

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:43:03 +1200

Thanks Ben, you nailed my thinking exactly. Which both saved me the effort of writing myself, and is quite reassuring.
Despite a good analytical brain, I'm not emotionally immune from the rhetoric undermining IM – "too new, unproven, multi-headed bastard-child, personality-driven, doomed to failure, pwned by Dotcom.. etc".
I've previously…

Jake Starrow

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:39:19 +1200

let me repeat. I don't understand Ian's lingo. Is it commonly spoken where you come from?
As I"ve repeated. I did dissect my praise for Key on Page 4 of the 2014 Methane Election topic which I suspect may have answered many of Ian's musings.
Please refer and get back…

Danielle

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:30:54 +1200

I'd like to note, Ian, that "cornish patsy" made me snort. Nice.

Sam F

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:28:11 +1200

Given Ian has admitted to a grip on the Village Idiot role, it’s not insulting to say I simply don’t understand Village Idiot-speak. Otherwise, I’d reply.

What a pity. Most of it is in a few short comments under your own original quotes. Most of us bears of little brain…

John Farrell

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:24:04 +1200

Interesting. This says it all, really.

Dismal Soyanz

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:23:04 +1200

Oh, now you are just using logic!

Dean Wallis

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:18:57 +1200

I note no real attempts to classify Cunliffe’s strengths as a potential Prime Minister as yet. Surely, that’s not a big ask.

I would say that Cunliffe has undeniable strength as a potential Prime Minister, after all he is one.

Jake Starrow

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:16:09 +1200

Given Ian has admitted to a grip on the Village Idiot role, it's not insulting to say I simply don't understand Village Idiot-speak. Otherwise, I'd reply.
I note no real attempts to classify Cunliffe's strengths as a potential Prime Minister as yet. Surely, that's not a big ask.
Isogi gives…

Brent Jackson

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:03:33 +1200

Tread on people like this instead of including them and they’ll do more than just disagree with you. They’ll start to hate you. National’s making sure that everything National is actually about John Key. And people who somehow haven’t been affected can’t understand why others “hate John Key” so much.…

Sam F

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:54:18 +1200

Are you going to answer the points he made?

+1. Jake, aside from Ian’s inimitable way of posting (which others appreciate though you may not) he’s taken a good shot at fisking your “statement of position” post from the other thread. Will you respond to the substance, or simply cry…

John Farrell

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:50:16 +1200

Are you going to answer the points he made?

CJM

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:46:23 +1200

They’d just impersonate you.

Jake Starrow

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:43:31 +1200

I'd be surprised if anybody would dare challenge you as Supreme Village Idiot.
How could they?

blindjackdog

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:42:07 +1200

Between Greens and IM I’m undecided.

Pretty much with you on all that Ben.

However, listening to Peters' hilarious encounter with that gormless twit Espiner this morning, it did occur to me that votes for IM are pretty much going to push WP towards the Nats when it comes to…

Paul Campbell

Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:35:14 +1200

Ben: yes that exactly – I've long thought that to move the centre a little you need a long lever at the extremes, I don't mind being really radical even if my ultimate goals re more modest

(Though I do really want to live in Ian's NZ, or maybe next…