It claims they believed there was fraud, but not enough to turn the result.

Does that mean we've agreed on something? I must be slipping.

Possibly!

But they were still pretty keen for third parties to advance the issue, and I don't think all the weirdness was yet apparent.…

It claims they believed there was fraud, but not enough to turn the result.

Does that mean we've agreed on something? I must be slipping.

I don't really see how your argument extends out to this specific case – I don't think it's entirely facetious to point out that the American Constitution was designed to place checks and balances and diffuse power, while a Westminster-style legislature depends on 'precedent' (which was basically be ignored…

there is a lovely pin board at the MFC where people wanting to buy or sell tickets drop their details. I just hunted for someone wanting tickets and i made the deal. I've taken advantage of that board for years as it's…

I kind of like the freedom of the Westminster system, for a couple of of reasons. One that it means that the government actually has the power to govern, they have the votes on a week to week basis, if they didn't they wouldn't be in power. In a…

fair enough Sue, especially if you're passing them on to someone you know but ....

if the gig/event has sold out and you're flogging the tickets on the open market then you should charge a premium. Why? Because: [a] the person who bought them…

He/She does not have any moral right to make a profit by allowing a third party to access the event because the contract that…

Why do they need a new crime created to help them?

*great light dawns*

is it me or does the piano playing kitteh not have the passion colin does for life

I really must get Channel Colin back in action again, or get some Kittah pictures posted.

He's taken to conking out on the couch, full-length, on his back, legs apart. He looks like…

Check out the Cincinnati Ohio 'Enquirer' story on Nov 10 2004 about the Warren County actions in locking away the ballot boxes for counting

Good link. That's simply astonishing. And another bizarre action that would have provoked a media firestorm in most democracies.

One electoral reform I'm like to see is the election date fixed at the first Saturday in November every three years, unless the Government loses a confidence vote or is unable to secure supply. Full stop.

Agreed. Perhaps when there's a five year-term like Britain, where governments almost always go…

Seems to me a ticket is not a commodity in the same way that a book, cabbage or house is.

A ticket is merely a signifier that the holder has paid the price that the event promoter wants for entry to the event.…

Ben, to be honest that's the one feature of the US electoral system I really do like. Sorry, but I don't think…

Hum... Having done a few E-Days as a scrutineer, and a few rounds of postal ballots in local body elections, I think you could fairly say there's potential for massive electoral fraud in our system. The…

__LEBANON – Warren County officials, facing scrutiny of their decision to lock down the administration building on election night, say they were responding to a terrorist…

Because he's a pussy. That hardly disproves irregularities.

I agree, it doesn't disprove there weren't any irregularities – I do think there were, there's lots of evidence for that. But it suggests to me not so much that Kerry lacked any fighting spirit but they he didn't think he won…

Just for interest....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6474181.stm

The lad sounds just like a sharemarket investor. Or, actually, like a currency trader ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6474181.stm

Was like Dark Side of the Moon over Wizard of Oz

But which was which?

Nora would have to be Pink Floyd I think.

I support a band, buy all of their albums, wear the tshirt, save up to get a ticket but can't get one because someone who couldn't even name one song snaps up all the tickets.

And you know what they do with all that money they scalped?

They buy up…

Was like Dark Side of the Moon over Wizard of Oz

But which was which?

or just the deleterious effect on ordinary punters of capitalism.

Exactly. The dear old free market, bless its cruel tiny little heart.

Mix it up. I alt-clicked on both SJD and Piano cat within 5 seconds and got Nora playing beautifully over Sean. Took me a while to figure out what was going on ..

That's so cool.

Was like Dark Side of the Moon over Wizard of Oz

Yes, but that rather proves the deleterious effect on ordinary punters of scalping.

or just the deleterious effect on ordinary punters of capitalism.

They have picture driving licenses nowadays.

I guess the problem with glasto is that it's just got too popular. There's nowhere big enough for a million people.

Actually why don't people ever mug scalpers?

Like drug dealers, they're very rarely actually 'holding' when you talk to them, and if they are its only a small amount. If you want, say, six tickets they'll signal to a mate who will bring them over.

If you try to snatch…

Mix it up. I alt-clicked on both SJD and Piano cat within 5 seconds and got Nora playing beautifully over Sean. Took me a while to figure out what was going on ..

That's so cool.

It goes against my sense of loony-lefty community spirit, but I have to agree with Anne M. And I reckon there are plenty of creative solutions that the ticket sellers themselves could come up with, without needing legislation to protect their fragile constitutions.

Glastonbury tickets were (to my knowledge) the…

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to…

Like with SKY TV, the NZRU has no facility to sell tickets itself (though with this whole whiz-bang interweb-amajig, I'm not sure why) so it has to contract a agency like Ticketek to do it.

If the NZRU is as weak-willed with…

1] Kerry/Dems/Ohio.
Nice guys finish last. The Republicans get it but the Democrtats don't. Rove is a master of 'win at all costs' and 'to the victor go the spoils'. That Kerry allowed himself to be swiftboated perhaps proves why he would…

There is just somethig nasty about the whole scapling thing...

I support a band, buy all of their albums, wear the tshirt, save up to get a ticket but can't get one because someone who couldn't even name one song snaps up…

And in any case, as I pointed out earlier, these people to the extent they exist probably for the most part have already jumped ship for a vairety of reasons. I suspect the dyed…

As Marcus says if you can afford (and think its a good idea) to drive a gas choking 4wd to your holiday home or from your lifestyle block to Auckland's CBD you are very unlikely to be a Labour inclined voter.

Ya reckon?

Interesting anecdote about polo – a bad example on…

But you still have to explain Kerry's actions. Why did he not fight like they did over Florida?

Or he's a 'gennelman' who didn't want to be seen as a sore loser.

But you still have to explain Kerry's actions. Why did he not fight like they did over Florida?

Because he's a pussy. That hardly disproves irregularities.

Disclaimer: I have never onsold a ticket in my life. Though I have extracted many $$$$ from…

I'm guessing that a million NZers will want to go, there'll be around 60,000 tickets on sale and half of those will go to international visitors. So only 3% of those wanting tickets will get one.

If…

So now I'm paying you to do a job I didn't want you to do?

Yes. I'm not saying it's fair mind you. I'm just saying that some people pick up first edition, mint condition copies of "The Fountainhead" or 20 front-row tickets to the-spectacle-of-your-choice by luck and/or guile and…

But tellingly Conyers didn't push for overturning the election either. I think they spotted irregularities that when they added up the votes weren't going to make a difference.

I think Andre already answered that point:

You have the questionable outcomes and inherently partisan nature of the electoral machinery that results…

How about promoters just withhold a few hundred tickets until two weeks before a clear sellout, and auction them off themselves? Donate the extra profits to charity,

BRILLIANT!

Or for being prepared to sleep on that cold, cold pavement?

Do people still do that? ( Remembers that kid who got hit by a car )

So now I'm paying you to do a job I didn't want you to do?
( __our author trys to think of analogy…

Likewise Guns n Roses. Or is it OK to on-sell their tickets, but not rugby ones?

OK, call me Mrs Thicky, but I still see no difference.

It goes against my sense of loony-lefty community spirit, but I have to agree with Anne M. And I reckon there are plenty of creative solutions that the ticket sellers themselves could come up with, without needing legislation to…

probably political suicide though...
no probably about it.

The same is said for spending on roads. I don't get why people believe either of these let alone keep repeating them like a mantra?

As Marcus says if you can afford (and think its a good idea) to drive a gas…

If, for example, the NZRFU wants to ensure that rugby union remains "the national game", it can't make crucial moments of national communion inaccessable to the wider nation, or eventually it would…

Basically, if a promoter doesn't take advantage of the last few dollars that can be made from an event and a third party steps in and grabs those dollars, why is that a matter for the criminal law?

But when the NZRU said "we'll cancel any tickets for the Lions…

Anne M: The problem is that I am in the bookstore/ticket queue etc. You're charging me for you being able to get in quicker.

Or for being prepared to sleep on that cold, cold pavement?

And why should the owner of a building opposite Eden park not be able to advertise Tui on it? It's their building not the RFUs?

Seems to me that our…

Nixon screwed over the Republicans and the Democrats were like "It's ok, we'll take the next one".

ps. In the states athletes do get a percentage of gate takings. It's used to calculate the salary cap and salary floor.

The whole thing stank, basically. And it's incorrect to say the Democrats thought otherwise.

But you still have to explain Kerry's actions. Why did he not fight like they did over Florida? I just don't think that having come so close Kerry was going just going to role over for…

Basically, if a promoter doesn't take advantage of the last few dollars that can be made from an event and a third party…

If only they'd make sure they were hot and hunky naked men charging across the field, i wouldn't mind so much ;-)

So maybe we need some sort of inspection system for streakers, prior to their display? Fair Trading Commission? Consumer Affairs?

establish severe penalties for anyone who calls him/herself a streaker but who is not showing us their wobbly/jangly bits.

Heh, jangly bits, I like that.

Hints at a certain amount of metal embellishment.

1. You have chosen to not participate in the culture, be it sport or thetre or music etc etc, but you have chosen to profit off the "misfortune" of others not able to get to the front of the line fast enough.

But when I sell the book same thing…

I thought streakers were supposed to be naked?

See, that's the problem. They're not regulated, so any fly-by-nighter can come along to a sports game, take off their T-shirt and be all "OMG! Look at me!!! I'm teh streaker!!!"

Obviously the government needs to step in and a) define exactly…

The artist (or whoever) doesn't get a slice of your $A profit either.

Forgot to say that sometimes its a charity that misses out, like at events such as Blues, Brews and BBQs in the Bay of Plenty.

If only they'd make sure they were hot and hunky naked men charging across the field, i wouldn't mind so much ;-)

Well, if you'll settle for semi-naked, that's basically rugby, innit? My friend Big Gay Paul enjoyed the rugby even more after he came out.

To quote (I think)…

Lisa Lewis's vision of mass bikini-streaks just sounds idiotic and tedious.

I agree.

If only they'd make sure they were hot and hunky naked men charging across the field, i wouldn't mind so much ;-)

But tellingly Conyers didn't push for overturning the election either. I think they spotted irregularities that when they added up the votes weren't going to make a difference.

It wasn't a matter of overturning the election result but of stopping the 20 electoral votes from Ohio from being registered, at…

Re: The "scalping being an evil thing" – can someone explain to me why, in the fabulous free market economy it is so vile?

I suppose for me there are two things:
1. You have chosen to not participate in the culture, be it sport or thetre or music etc…

Ah yes, indeed. I have no proof at all, just a feeling (by the pricking of my thumbs...)

Good enough!

THEATRE!!

If I buy a 2nd hand book for 50 cents and flog it for $1000 why is this OK, while buying a Guns n Roses ticket…

Ah yes, indeed. I have no proof at all, just a feeling (by the pricking of my thumbs...)

The other thing that suggests incompetence rather than successful electoral…

Robert Kennedy Jr.'s Rolling Stone article Was the 2004 Election Stolen? is the best place to start.

Lisa Lewis's vision of mass bikini-streaks just sounds idiotic and tedious.

I don't know. I'd have to see a few myself to make that call.

It's interesting that the term "election fraud" in the States can mean two vastly different things. You have the questionable outcomes and…

There's one big hole in the Ohio was stolen theory – the Dems never fought it. They fought bitterly, all the way to the Supreme Court, over Florida. Had Kerry believed that Ohio was rigged he would have done the same.

There was quite a bit of disquiet at Kerry's…

Had Kerry believed that Ohio was rigged he would have done the same.

i seem to remember that, at the time, kerry favoured not fighting "for the good of the nation". a repeat of florida would have been too much of a fiasco.

"No surprises that the US election was rigged"

Sarah, please provide hard evidence

Why does she have to provide evidence that she wasn't surprised? :)

Sarah, please provide hard evidence. Easy to intimate that it was rigged, hard to proove.

Just how many Labour-voting investment house owners are there? And surely, I imagine, most…

Um... what about holiday homes :)

Given that owners don't make much (or any) money off a holiday home that they use themselves, I don't see why they'd be too scandalised by the idea; while (I presume) a capital gains tax would only be incurred in the event that the…

probably political suicide though...

no probably about it.

Um... what about holiday homes :)

Here's a nightmare for Kiwiblog readers:

I don't know if it'd constitute a nightmare, or all their christmases come at once. If they had the choice of a decent, hardworking leftwing government and an overtly corrupt one, which do you think they'd choose?

As…

And this thing with the streakers... Since when were we so goddamn American? What are we, Puritans?

No, I just don't want to see actual sporting events become a channel for commercially-sponsored attention-seekers. Lisa Lewis's vision of mass bikini-streaks just sounds idiotic and tedious.

There was a streaker at the same Superbowl where we all saw too much of Janet Jackson. He got nailed by a very large linebacker in full pads. Great to see.

But the Americans have the same streaking problem as everywhere else. They just don't televise it. Just…

And this thing with the streakers... Since when were we so goddamn American? What are we, Puritans?

democracy is a wonderful thing, if you control it

I thought streakers were supposed to be naked?