What I need is a daily fix of good reporting, and I need it public transport friendly.

Suggestion: electronic distribution, cellwise in the wee hours when the networks must be quiet, to be read on a mobile…

What we're missing in New Zealand is resourcing for investigative reporting and heavily researched feature writing.

ah, i get it now.

i had thought that part of the objective was to see the publication of this great writing. to prevent these stories from being ignored by the infotainment msm that…

But that's just me...

It's me too, to be honest. Review and editorial writing is my crack.

But, dispassionately, it's the really big jobs where there's a deficit, and where the public good can most amply be served.

What we're missing in New Zealand is resourcing for investigative reporting and heavily researched feature writing.

Agreed. I also think we're missing decent venues for really full-on cultural critique and commentary, where top-notch critics can go to town in more than 600-words-or-less, and are compensated properly for their expertise and…

But with a non-publishing trust, I just wish there was a way so that it wouldn't end up subsidizing Fairfax and APN for what they should be…

The fund lets you make a much more compelling case as the honest broker. I think…

As has already been pointed out, part of PA's role is that of media commentator and would that not be compromised if it gets directly in the game?

I am also…

In Nippert's defence, he is a very good feature writer.

I never said he wasn't, but he's no film reviewer. He just can't put the films in any sort of context. So long as you're planning to compete, that's an area where things are made easier for you (although strictly…

(Did anyone read Bernard Hickey today? I would probably just write that column over and over and over…

. . . Nippert excelled this week by calling Bernardo Bertolucci a French director.

Thanks for reminding me why I no longer read the bloody thing. Once upon a time Peter Wells reviewed films for the Listener. A real filmmaker who always produced challenging and thoughtful pieces, and was far…

Monday: Cinema (David Haywood)

possible slogan: "Like 'The Listener', but free, and not crap". [NOTE 24AUG07: this is a joke]

Tell you what: it might as well not be a joke. As we've been routinely discussing in these parts, columnists at the Listener have been dropping like flies, and never…

To answer Stephen's question, I would envisage a 'PA…

We already have high quality, well researched and well written journalism available on the internet (such as PA) and it doesn't cost me a bean.

PA is marvellous, but much of what it publishes is commentary, not original reporting. Apart from PA there's Poneke (who definitely does write original albeit…

But would it? Be content, I mean?

that's the issue. i'd want to think carefully about what i was to research and put up.

which wouldn't make me a 'core' writer...

However, I think the results would need access to the mainstream media's audience. We already have high quality, well researched and well written journalism available on the internet (such as PA) and it doesn't cost me a bean.…

Mind you, I'm impressed that they know the correct plural of "nunchak".

You know, that was the part that really impressed me about that story as well.

Didn't take the rest of it seriously: had a mental picture of Hong Kong Phooey and that was about it.

The first para is:

Riot police had to control fights among a crowd of almost 200 people as they tried…

Like the Huffington Post, except, y'know, properly paid.

Thanks Jolisa, very interesting article. I always assumed the likes of Shearer and Maher were treating HuffPo like a nice, easy avenue of vanity publishing, jotting down opinion pieces without the stress of a deadline and with the certainty of being published…

You don't think writers like Jane Clifton mightn't constantly be on the lookout for interesting new gigs that might allow them to work beyond the parameters of what they're currently doing?

Or that a hypothetical Crikey-like site might not benefit from recruiting a few high-profile eyeball-capturing names at the outset?…

I love the idea of a DIY site – if only to make Jane Clifton scream louder about demarcation...

You don't think writers like Jane Clifton mightn't constantly be on the lookout for interesting new gigs that might allow them to work beyond the parameters of what they're currently doing?…

It my even be that the growing fear of a competitor NOT funded by overseas billionaires might rein in the propaganda excesses of the local voices of aforementioned billionaires.

How old are you, Steve? Obviously not old enough to have been reading "Granny Herald" before 1996, when it was an…

Seeking bequests and endowments to build the fund more rapidly. I can see anyone other…

The commissioning editor pays writers some suitable premium above the going rate, but otherwise on the normal terms for copyright (which I think typically goes to the entity paying, yes?)

Only if the writer is stupid (or, more likely, bullied into it by the buyer).

The basic rule for freelancers:…

A trust with a deed centred on the production of articles of national interest
...
perhaps an incorporated society is better. I don't know, but something that can accept charitable donations is good.

I forget the exact name (obviously they're charitable, but they also can last forever, as opposed to…

A trust with a deed centred on the production of articles of national interest in the liberal tradition (whatever that is – that might mean classically liberal as well) – philosophically like the Scott Trust but with a much narrower scope. No doubt someone like Graeme could…

not at all. i could write about local body politics, or... fishing(?) to my hearts content.

But would it? Be content, I mean?

(I don't think mine would. Fortunately, the public service doesn't do stuff in PN)

Your career or blogging: choose.

not at all. i could write about local body politics, or... fishing(?) to my hearts content.

have spent the last few years testing the waters. as long as i steer well clear of the thordon bubble and/or the terrace, anything goes.

Personally, I see having a trust that funds/commissions stories as being a separate project from running a (profitable?) online news site. The two projects might well have a lot in common and support each other, but I think they would be best run by different people.

I think you're right.…

One reason is that…

Your career or blogging: choose.

didn't you see that "..." that's it you're in. We're all in!

I love the idea of a DIY site – if only to make Jane Clifton scream louder about demarcation...

the writers here get paid by here, to publish stuff here. if the msm wants to pick it up they pay.

rb, i'm assuming that public address becomes an op-ed site…

To me an interesting model would be a trust which provided an environment by which freelance journalists could research and produce stories, and then hawk them around the various media outlets for publication.

Kindof an agency model then?

The problem is supporting it – at current freelance rates, there's barely…

I don't think any pay to read model is going to work online. I'd be very unlikely to cough up a dollar to read an article even if the first half interested me. I also wouldn't shell out $100 for a subscription to such a thing,…

'Spot Us' is a nonprofit that allows an individual or group to take control of news in their community by sharing the cost (crowdfunding) to commission freelance journalists to write important, or uncovered news stories.

i vote tom doesn't get to play.

anyone with me?! :)

i used to read crikey in the early days and it was... sparse.

they got a couple of huge shout-outs from the msm and then they were off.

pretty sure this idea would track the same, imho.

It's successful and influential because it is always topical, often has different content…

er... to quote from a recent email of mine on this topic — which sought to answer the question "apart from PAers, who else would you find to write for such a publication"...

It is somewhat ironic that David H has been hitting me with the good ideas by email…

Crikey comes out daily and would run to ten pages easily – if printed)

i used to read crikey in the early days and it was... sparse.

they got a couple of huge shout-outs from the msm and then they were off.

pretty sure this idea would track the same,…

talented online writers such as Stephen Judd, Idiot Savant, Don Christie, Paul Litterick, Robyn Gallagher, Craig Ranapia, Kracklite, Bart Janssen, Steven Price...

I wonder if something not quite so voluminous might have more appeal.

The way it's formatted however, with hyperlinks in the email, means you don't need to print it off to skim read and skip around to the items of most interest. Many of the items run around the same…

... talented online writers such as Stephen Judd, Idiot Savant, Don Christie, Paul Litterick, Robyn Gallagher, Craig Ranapia, Kracklite, Bart Janssen, Steven Price...

I'm IN

(bear in mind though, Crikey comes out daily and would run to ten pages easily – if printed)

I would be more likely to read it all the way through each day if I did print it off, but it seems wrong (for the cost, for the planet) to do…

Still, its not clear if they actually turn a profit.

In a country with five times our population. So let's say we can rack up 2,000 subscribers, but we'd still have more or less the same overheads, in the sense that it'd still take the same number of people to…

I omitted to say this in the last discussion the PA contributors had about this, but I regard Crikey as the most viable model to emulate. It works.

It sure does, at least from a readers' perspective. I know literally dozens and dozens of subscribers each of whom are paying…

Do you have insider knowledge of how much money the contributors actually make? Are we talking need for a second job, breadline, fair pay?...

An interesting question. They basically charge the cost of a monthly magazine for a subscription, and have ~10,000 subscribers. But their costs are a lot lower…

Do you have insider knowledge of how much money the contributors actually make? Are we talking need for a second job, breadline, fair pay?...

Don't have any insider knowledge, sorry, but the income of 14,000 subscribers plus advertising would give you quite a bit more to pay your contributors than…

I omitted to say this in the last discussion the PA contributors had about this, but I regard Crikey as the most viable model to emulate. It works.

Do you have insider knowledge of how much money the contributors actually make? Are we talking need for a second job, breadline,…

If we're looking at an outlet of independent journalism that can challenge established powers in the media and society some thought is needed as to how to fund legal support for the…

I believe that much of the mysterious, invisible public see through the bullshit that the mainstream news media churn out and that they've simply given up on it . . .

Although I don't think any of our newspapers are perfect I think the Dom-Post and The Herald are both…

The writers would have to donate their time until the advertising and print sales become profitable

You mean like most of us do already?

A daily would be a very difficult starting point, but one could easily imagine a weekly news magazine that would be something like a quality version of The Listener.

Zing!

Love Keith's micropatronage idea, although $1 per article is pretty steep – you can get a whole newspaper these days…

That's a fair point. However the reason I suggested a not-for-profit model is precisely to deal with that…

I'm also skeptical about the public demand for quality freelance journalism; the newspapers publish all those Paris Hilton stories for a reason – because that's what most people are genuinely interested in.

I'm skeptical about this kind of skepticism. I believe that much of the mysterious, invisible public see through…

Such a system also seems perfectly compatible with traditional web advertising systems. But I think the big problem is – as Danyl notes…

I am IN.

er... to quote from a recent email of mine on this topic — which sought to answer the question "apart from PAers, who else would you find to write for such a publication"...

... talented online writers such as Stephen Judd, Idiot Savant, Don…

Comments?

People seem to be very reluctant to pay for online content. I'm happy to be proved wrong but I can't think of a notable single web model that survives on public subscriptions.

So if this is going to work it'll have to involve either printing and selling a dead…

Establish a micropayment system. Get freelance journalists.

Freelance journalist writes stories. Reader-patrons use a thumbs-up($1)/thumbs-down($0) system to rate the stories. It's painless, it provides concrete feedback and encouragement for the journalist.

It gets around the…

I know that my fellow PAers are already well-and-truly sick of me going on about this/

I'm not.

At the end of the week, you'd automatically typeset and bundle it into a downloadable PDF — readers would be able to print this out themselves or pay for a print-on-demand version to read on the dunny.

This sounds frighteningly similar to what Ian Wishart is doing.

It's not as bad as all that. When a good story breaks, other outlets pick it up. If our putative trust-funded outlet finds something good, others may pick up the story and run with it. Mission accomplished.

Point. Though the original journalist may not see any benefit from that (though…

... maybe it's time for a group of journalists to run their own paper. Easier said than done of course, but an obvious solution I thought.

Which is my cue to pipe up.

I'm been going on for some time to my fellow PAers (fixing them with…

But it is perhaps a project for a dedicated loon to think about.

I've begun sleeping exclusively with billionaires, so stay tuned. ;)

if you would kindly die and leave your vast estate to said trust, that would speed things up. Thank you.

owen glenn may be annoyed enough with the MSM here to donate something substantial, well before his demise...

count me in, if anything gets going.

It's not as bad as all that. When a good story breaks, other outlets pick it up. If our putative trust-funded…

As to who would fund this, Russell omitted my subsequent comment, which I will now repeat: if you would kindly die and leave your vast estate to said trust, that would speed things up. Thank you.

Great. So all we need is for some kind, wealthy individual to whack themselves…

one my earliest memories is the bed made for us kids out the back of the shop, where we would fall asleep to the clatter of commerce

Luxury! I spent eight years as a school kid living in a kiwifruit grading shed and ate nothing but avocados.

I am sure…

But I reckon getting it in all the community papers would be a hoot. Imagine that – community papers outdoing the national papers.

Chaos!

Say, for a well-researched 2000-word feature, they earn $800-1000 for one or two weeks' work.

If you have, say, a modest readership of 5000, and say, 20% of them are prepared to pay $1 each for the article, then…

Consolidated media ownership was pretty much the theme of the conference (as well as a general fear of "new media" and the internet).

I suggested towards the end of the two days that if media…

I think the biggest problem would be getting the material published; newspapers and magazines may be reluctant to carry it.

Yes, I suspect the print duopoly here would be leery of the idea — but the Star Times does, I think, pay rather less for Nick Hager's stories than they…

I think the biggest problem would be getting the material published; newspapers and magazines may be reluctant to carry it. Though if it was put to them…

Anyway, if a Guardian like trust were to be set up I would contribute – but the "liberal tradition" would have to be mentioned.