Interesting also that Natural Dairy holdings was previously a supply company for the mining industry. Timing eh?

Gee just what we need, the Chinese version of KBR or Halliburton getting their foot in the door...
Cayman Islands registered too, so ya just know they'll be keen…

Samoa wouldn't be anywhere near able to cope with the visitor numbers that would attend a RWC.

When you get the rights to host a tournament they make you build or dramatically restructure pretty much all the stadiums you have. Why? Was the old Eden Park unable to accomodate its…

An RWC in Samoa might not wind up being be very glitzy, but I'm sure people would have a good time.

While it's somewhat unfortunately, Samoa wouldn't be anywhere near able to cope with the visitor numbers that would attend a RWC.

Clearly you don't just need the players, a…

McCully is now saying the WRC is *too expensive* for us (ANZ) to hold, and will probably run at a $40MILLION LOSS

No shit.

Thing is, it doesn't need to cost very much money at all. We're talking about putting on a few dozen rugby games. All you need for…

right.OK, he says 'ever again' but if he was being honest-

this country has been totally shafted…

Oh please dont mention oysters so often Sofie! I've only had a 2 dozen so far this year, and feel consequently weak & depleted...

Hey Islander,

.Incidentally, the clip with the singing and all had to do with *aquaculture* fees – of which a minor amount (comparatively!) went…

and putting "Ngatata" in quotes was stupid.

You may be right. It might be written like that to indicate the given name that a person uses if it is not their first given name, but if you feel that it should changed (to, perhaps: "Professor Sir Ralph Herberley Ngatata Love…

O, 3410? I respect your posts, but you should make it quite clear that you are *not* implicating Ralph Ngatata Love with any kind of involvement with the Southland dairy buisness 'scam': otherwise, you're coming perilously close to libel.

On the contrary. The posted info indicates that Sir Ngatata appears…

Incidentally, the clip with the singing and all had to do with *aquaculture* fees – of which a minor amount (comparatively!) went to Kai Tahu.…

Note: as far as I know, there is no connection between…

Ngatata Love has NOTHING to do with the Southland frauds.

Oh no,(realise that) he was just mentioned yesterday in the herald re this latest bid with Natural Dairy Holdings, the bid for the Crafar Family Farms.
This explains a morsel

Professor Sir Ralph Herberley "Ngatata" Love, GNZM, QSO, JP, (born September 7, 1937) is a New Zealand Treaty of Waitangi negotiator, academic and Māori leader.

Love is a Professor of Business Development at Victoria University of Wellington's Victoria Management School.

Love was awarded the New Zealand Order of…

run by an Australian con-man who has given himself a Maori name, trying to buy dairy farms in Southland...all attempted purchases to date have fallen through (because no deposits of money have been forthcoming.)

From what I linked to earlier.

UBNZ's directors include Sir Ngatata Love, former head of the…

Somewhat OT: but how about some investment in a decent pop music venue or doing SOMETHING about the acoustics in the Vector Arena. The Massive were loudish last night, but the shitty distortion in the upper registers was horrible.

I gather there is an acoustic fix for it, but no…

Also, the fact that the tools behind me did not STFU…

Except in Public Health research, where Otago in Wellington competes with Massey in Wellington.

Well research isn't fixed in place and so is a nationwide competition. Otago competes largely with Auckland for medical research funding.

What's left?

Oh, excellent.

Great Barrier? Open Bay Islands?Rakiura? Rekohu?
Anywhere where the living is a bit hard, and politicians are out of their comfort zone, without their usual support (except for electronic) networks-

And make them walk to and from their electorates to parliament. Or they could use the national cycleway.

I think it should be moved to urrrrm

Great Barrier? Open Bay Islands?Rakiura? Rekohu?

White Island?

SRSLY?

Apparently so. Story in the local paper about this recently (not on-line, unfortunately).

A number of employers seem to be using teenage "job trials" every weekend to cut their wage bills. There are no jobs there....just a long string of teens hoping to get jobs who instead end up working a weekend day or evening for free.

SRSLY?

But surely this could only…

Horrible horrible syntactical fuck up from the depths of nasty procedural languages. It is in my opinion a truly daft idiom to use in…

1. More and more people are earning the $12.50/hour minimum wage.....and no prospect of earning any more.

2. A number of employers seem to be using teenage "job trials" every weekend to cut their wage bills.…

The University of Otago has campuses in Invercargill, Dunedin, Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland. Massey University not the only one doing the franchise-y thing.

Yes, but I don't work for Massey.

None of Otago's campuses really compete with other institutions.

Except in Public Health research, where Otago in Wellington competes with…

Which raises the whole issue of the value to New Zealand of allowing Universities (and technical institutes) to compete for students.

It's way better than the UK system of artificially restricting access and creating a league table of universities, based not on course quality but on a self-perpetuating ability to…

and anyone who can flood the country with RTDs (Ready to Drink beverages) has got to have community values at heart...

It may be alcohol we need after our milk goes East

But ... but ...

A team of scientists has succeeded in putting an object large enough to be visible to the naked eye into a mixed quantum state of moving and not moving, known as a Superposition
– can Auckland be far away…

Because then people could grumble metonymically all they want without offending any of their nice Wellingtonian friends?

No. Because we're already stashing all the government's documents there. Might as well save a bit of toing and froing and move the rest of the infrastructure there as well.

Great Barrier? Open Bay Islands?Rakiura? Rekohu?
Anywhere where the living is a bit hard, and politicians are out of their comfort zone, without their usual support (except for electronic) networks-

tho' there *are* endangered species in those areas -…

I think it would make a lot of sense to move the capital to Palmerston North, me.

Because then people could grumble metonymically all they want without offending any of their nice Wellingtonian friends?

PS Firefox wants me to change Wellingtonian to Washingtonian; obviously it has been reading the thread.

Having one regional body to make all long-term plans and to manage transport, water and asset management needs means Auckland will finally have a co-ordinated process to make decisions and to invest accordingly.

This will mean clearer and consistent decision-making on regional issues, clear leadership for Auckland and a reduction…

McKay has 20 years experience at senior level – he has headed Lion Nathan, Carter Holt Harvey, Goodman Fielder, Sealord and most recently Independent Liquor

Look for…

Which raises the whole issue of the value to New Zealand of allowing Universities (and technical institutes) to compete for students.

None of Otago's campuses really compete with other institutions.

Wellington and Christchurch are medical school outposts, Otago provides med students to south of Auckland for training, Auckland students go…

The Fleece (for Denis Glover)

could've been called Owed to Christchurch

Why make these changes?
Auckland is the country's economic powerhouse. We all need Auckland to perform the best it can.

Having one regional body to make all long-term plans…

The University of Otago has campuses in Invercargill, Dunedin, Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland. Massey University not the only one doing the franchise-y thing.

Which raises the whole issue of the value to New Zealand of allowing Universities (and technical institutes) to compete for students.

But as Russell would say that's…

They decided on Palmerston North because they thought it wouldn't survive as a town otherwise, whereas Wanganui clearly would (they thought).

My understanding was that the Wanganui City Council turned Massey down because they didn’t like the thought of a whole lot of students ruining their beautiful and dignified city.…

If only we could turn the clock back (or, alternatively, if someone could just build a university in Wanganui and poach all Massey's staff, that'd work for me too!)

I give you Massey University, Wellington and Massey University Auckland.

It's balmy Palmy we should be scared of. They're infiltrating the…

Every time I've…

The fact that the most recent person offended by it, is in Adelaide, highlights the bizarre nature of this part of the thread.

You can take the Wellingtonian out of Government, I mean Wellington, but you can't... no I'm not going to.

This is Palmerston North's idea of Pure Poetry.…

“I just worry whether this is again Wellington dictating to us through the back door.”

Is that a polite of saying "talking out of their arse"?

See, you're just crapping on Palmerston North now.

Everyone craps on Palmerston North. That's what it's there for.

Hi, my name is Jack and I live in sunny Wellington, jewel of the lower North Island.

See, you're just crapping on Palmerston North now.

I was more intrigued that RB didn't seem to see why the words he used upset people, or might have offended people, and I'm trying to explain why.

And I'm intrigued, and amused, at the earnest offence being taken.

Okay, new idea for the waterfront: let's build ourselves a wailing wall.

At 5 metres high, your new Weta sculpture will almost do the trick.

Manukau mayor Len Brown, rival to Mr Banks for the Super City mayoralty, says plans to put transport in the hands of a non-elected board go too far.

“They’ve powered up the mayor’s role, they’ve put us all together on the basis that we need to be united…

The implication is that all those Wellingtonians are sitting there with their…

I guess this means generations of hurt and shame for Wellingtonians. I am a monster.

Okay, new idea for the waterfront: let's build ourselves a wailing wall.

I was more intrigued that RB didn't seem to see why the words he used upset people, or might have offended people, and I'm trying to explain why.

Titled it, "Giving money to the government", not "Transferring wealth to Wellington", given that Wellington and the residents of Wellington, of whom I am, alas, not one, won't get a penny.

Sadly, I can't easily change PAS headlines once they're created.

I guess this means generations of hurt and shame…

The implication is that all those Wellingtonians are sitting there with their hands out, waiting for Aucklanders to give them money that they (Wellingtonians) can spend as they wish.

More of an extrapolation than an implication.

Could the crux of issue be that Wellingtonians don't use the word "Wellington" as…

Because the city, Wellington, doesn't get the money. Central government gets it. The implication is that all those Wellingtonians are sitting there with their hands out, waiting for Aucklanders to give them money that they (Wellingtonians) can spend as they wish.

Whose implication? Where? I assure you, I was implying…

why is saying that tax revenue goes "to Wellington" a potential slur on Wellingtonians?

Because the city, Wellington, doesn't get the money. Central government gets it. The implication is that all those Wellingtonians are sitting there with their hands out, waiting for Aucklanders to give them money that they (Wellingtonians)…

"Controlled from Wellington" is not quite the same as "controlled by Wellington".

I'm not sure there's that big a difference, but I didn't say "controlled by Wellington".

I said that "the government wants [CCOs] to run 75% of services in the new city," but the ACC may be trying to…

When Super City opponents repeatedly use the phrase "controlled from Wellington", for example, they're not talking about Wellingtonians, they're talking about the government.

Also, the whole Supercity debate is about local (ie Auckland) government.

To talk about "Wellington" is, for Aucklanders, to avoid the confusion between both uses of the…

OTT? You should see Baxter's Ode to Auckland!

I like the version that starts with

"Auckland, you great arsehole,
There are some things I like about you,
And some things I cannot like..."

With the right context, yes, it is obvious. What context does a headline/title have? That requires reading the article below, which never mentions Wellington.

To reiterate my earlier point, Wellington isn't a stand-alone capital city like Washington or Canberra. It's NZ's third largest city and there's plenty that goes on…

OTT? You should see Baxter's Ode to Auckland!

Heh. Love that.

O sterile whore of a thousand bureaucrats!

But it's Ok when James K Baxter says it, right? He must have been there on a particularly bad day, as this does seem a little OTT, even for literary purposes.

OTT? You should see Baxter's Ode to Auckland!

Sacha: Dodging the question there. Nobody elected the board of ARTA, and you can be as smart-arsed as you like but it's expenditure — and income from the ARC and NZTA) are not petty cash.

And it's not more than half the region's total rates bill, either.

If you really…

I'm not sure where I got it from now. But it should be taken to mean 'equivalent'.

You get into the specifics of programming notation and symbolic logic with this if you try and dig too deep on this, but the "colloquial" interpretation of these symbols is as follows:

"="…

No complaints from any of them.

Sounds like you've missed a couple of choice Christchurch threads.

Is "==" some "C" thing that I've missed again?

I'm not sure where I got it from now. But it should be taken to mean 'equivalent'.

Ah, you're using it as a lazy way of typing "≡".

Is "==" some "C" thing that I've missed again?

I'm not sure where I got it from now. But it should be taken to mean 'equivalent'.

O sterile whore of a thousand bureaucrats!

But it's Ok when James K Baxter says it, right? He must have been there on a particularly bad day, as this does seem a little OTT, even for literary purposes.

Can we at least agree that our transgressions are well short of…

And again, ARTA's budget is what proportion of the total transport expenditure by Auckland's current local authorities?

Sacha: Dodging the question there. Nobody elected the board of ARTA, and you can be as smart-arsed as you like but it's expenditure — and income from the ARC and NZTA) are not…

Surely everyone knows and understands it's a reference to central government? Just as "Washington" is in the US?

With the right context, yes, it is obvious. What context does a headline/title have? That requires reading the article below, which never mentions Wellington.

To reiterate my earlier point, Wellington isn't a…

But who actually thinks that the issue is between us and the good folk of Wellington city? I think the meaning is well established in this context, and quite clear.

Eh, some people really do seem to think that — the arts and culcha thing above f'rinstance.

It does annoy…

Anyway, people refusing to pay poll tax in the UK, and smashing the place up a bit in March 1990 led to the tax being abolished and its perpetrator forced into demented retirement.

True. It did however 6 months later lead to a very thinly disguised poll tax called council…

you’ll end up paying sooner or later, with the addition of penalties. (10% every six months is fairly standard.)

Yeah, but if everyone refused to write a check for six months, the council would fail to make payroll and things would start to go a bit pear-shaped for them.

It…

All I can see happening there is folks ending up in court for not paying their bills and spending a few weeks in a private prison run by the same company that owns the CCOs.

I don't think you can actually go to jail for not paying rates in NZ.…

Compared with the proposed Transport CCO's 54% of the new Council's total budget.

Hopefully the attention on this lately means that the government will back down and insert some real accountability into the…

But Aucklanders won't have any influence over how their rates are spent on transport. I mean, that's what this is about, isn't it?

I;m going to ask this two-part question again:

1) Who voted for the board of ARTA? I sure didn't.

2) And without recourse to Google, can you…

Who does the apportioning? If it's the elected officials of the council then that is at least some way to help control…

Well? Ington!

Well... now we're quoting The Goons?

Ington, Ington, Ington, iddle-eye poh!

Is "==" some "C" thing that I've missed again?

Yes.

Edit: If Kyle had used "=", "the Beehive" would have become literally equal to Wellington, and then later Auckland – a side effect with catastrophic consequences. But a good unit test would catch that.

no crucifix Entreats

Ah well, those buggers with the tower on Mt Vic fixed that.

Well? Ington!

I'll always be partial to Wellington Schmellington.

__Wellington
Time is a frown on the stone brow
Of a monument, a gale shaking the quay.
There is never time to let the whole day sink
Into the heart, and hold it sheltered there.

Power breeds on power in…

*sigh* Could someone make Lindsay Perigo post under his own name? I'm sorry to tell you this, Mr. Dempsey, but people who don't use public transport don't get to opt out of the portion of their rates that deliver subsidies to ARTA.

But they do get to vote for councillors…

Except that's the same essentially bullshitty rhetorical slight of hand that allows you to pretend that government is some mysterious "they" you're in no way responsible for.

On that basis, Beehive == Auckland at least as much (and indeed twice as much based on number of MPs) as Beehive ==…

The Goldmine.

Yeah, see your fault-line and raise you one, two, three (counting on fingers, sorry) four... heaps of volcanoes. Smart-as we is up here.

If it wisnae fur yer wellys where wid ye be
you'd be in the hospital or infirmary
cause you'd have a dose ae the flu or even plurisee
if ye didnae have your feet in your wellys.

wellys they are wonderful
wellys they are…

We wouldn't be having these problems if Auckland was the capitol of NZ as it should be.

Do you want Auckland to look like this? I'm confused, but not against. It would create plenty of jobs in the building sector

I'm not at all intending to be polemic nor taking…

Wellington=The Goverment

Wellywood=The City

;)

And yeah, that Wellington thing, MMP changed the dynamics so use another term. We do stupid enough without others piling alleged stupidity on us

Pah. Wellington don't know nuttin' about stupid.

We wrote the book on stupid. It was later remaindered to The Goldmine.

The trouble is, it doesn't quite work to use "Wellington"

How about " Wallywood" for Gummint then?

I'll get my coat....

Personally, I assumed the headline was about buying lumps of delicious pastry-wrapped beef.

Alternate headlines: Give Wellington the boot.

Oh, sorry, tautology.

Personally, I assumed the headline was about buying lumps of delicious pastry-wrapped beef.

yeah, that's right, what's your beef Wellington?

if significant savings wasn't the point of super sizing the city, what was?

Innovation.

I'm sure I read innovation somewhere.

And yeah, that Wellington thing, MMP changed the dynamics so use another term. We do stupid enough without others piling alleged stupidity on us.

Revenue Minister Peter Dunne says that, while it is possible that some current non-taxable activities will become taxable, significant prior and ongoing tax losses will be offset against taxable income in the future.

“It is expected, that on the basis of published accounts, the combined councils will have existing losses…

As an aside, it always amuses me when press releases attribute quotes to two people at once.

My issue is that in this case, when the topic is the city of Auckland, it implies that the issue is between Auckland city and Wellington city, when it's actually between Auckland city and the national government.

But who actually thinks that the issue is between us and the good…

Surely everyone knows and understands it's a reference to central government?

My issue is that in this case, when the topic is the city of Auckland, it implies that the issue is between Auckland city and Wellington city, when it's actually between Auckland city and the national government.

If it were just a question of elegant metonymy, "the Beehive" would be more accurate.

Except that's the same essentially bullshitty rhetorical slight of hand that allows you to pretend that government is some mysterious "they" you're in no way responsible for. Hell, it's nigh on Tea Party-ish just with…

There's no need to go looking for offence where none exists.

What he said. Having lived in Wellington, I support both The Hurricanes (Auckland Rugby? Meh!) and The Phoenix, and love nothing better than spending days in the sun at the basin, as I did last week.

But if you're…

For years we've talked about "the Beehive" directing things, not Wellington.

That's because you're in Wellington. We (often) do say "Wellington" as shorthand for govt. Trust me, it's no slight on any Wellingtonians, or on Wellingtonians in general.

ETA: or trust Russell, if you consider him easier to trust. ;)

For years we've talked about "the Beehive" directing things, not Wellington. Just as in the UK they talk about directions from Whitehall, not London.

Fair point. Would "Transferring bucks to the Beehive" work as a headline?

The sub-editor in me

Ah, so it's yer basic newsroom clash :)

I suspect Russell used it purely for the alliteration with "wealth", journo that he is. Interesting just how sensitive some Wellingtonians seem to be about this though.

I'll always go for the alliteration ...

But the use of "Wellington" in this context has a long history — especially with regard…

And Sacha, its just not the usual metonym here. For years we've talked about "the Beehive" directing things, not Wellington. Just as in the UK they talk about directions from Whitehall, not London.

Interesting just how sensitive some Wellingtonians seem to be about this though.

I brought it up because the headline made me do a double-take. A sort of "Wait, what's happening to Wellington?!" The sub-editor in me doesn't like it just as much as the Wellingtonian in me.

Mind you, when we get supercitified, the cash goes to Christchurch. And when they go under the gun themselves, there's going to be a lot of happy…

Taxation and rates are social contracts between the populace and those who spend that money. What seems to be being attempted here is to take the money as rates…

I suspect Russell used it purely for the alliteration with "wealth", journo that he is. Interesting just how sensitive some Wellingtonians seem to be about this though. What's the matter? It's the price you…

For one thing, all the electorate MPs (including for the electorate within which Parliament and most Ministries are located) in Wellington, aside from old Lego Hair, are Labour.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to…

This song's for Ian.
I don't know what to do
I need a rendezvous
Is that fruity enough?

Computer love
I call this number
for a database

I don't know ?
is it an Apple ©?

so Wolfgang or Ralf or whoever
wants to meet someone...
(remembering these are Germans…

Just don't use the term Beltway.

If it were just a question of elegant metonymy, "the Beehive" would be more accurate.

Transferring wealth to Wellington

When you use "Wellington" in this context, I assume you're using as shorthand for the government, not actually Wellington itself; the Beehive rather than the Fern Ball.

The trouble is, it doesn't quite work to use "Wellington" as a shorthand for the government. Wellington isn't like…

My question about standards still applies though – what's the comparison point?

And by the way, if significant savings wasn't the point of super sizing the city, what was?

Local Government actually capable of acting in the interests of the whole of Auckland, ensuring that local and regional infrastructure is built toward long-term goals of enhancing action of region-wide social issues and…

On the other…

/waves hands magically
Look, a pony!

That's a jolly good answer

if significant savings wasn't the point of super sizing the city, what was?

See, that's the funny thing. Most city/regions would be happy to regularly rate in the top ten places to live in the whole world.

We've heard about problems with coordination in transport and long term planning -…

And as to changing a government by tax revolt?

I was there... a few years later an…

This is essentially a transfer from Auckland ratepayers to central government coffers.

Hum... that's one way to spin it. I wonder how many Auckland ratepayers will be relishing the delish irony of the Auckland City Council bitching about being on the receiving end of a tax hike, for once. :)…

And by the way, if significant savings wasn't the point of super sizing the city, what was?

/waves hands magically

Look, a pony!

at the fruitily-named Rendezvous Hotel

Why fruitily?
Because it suggests people meeting in pears?
or because there's gonna be nutty professors there?

Last time I looked people meeting freely didn't imply any suggestive sexuality ...
Sure French is one of the romantic languages, but why put an inference on the…

There is no compulsion for anyone to involuntarily fork out $$ to corporations. We pay willingly for various services, but if we don't agree, we are free to not purchase those services.

*sigh* Could someone make Lindsay Perigo post under his own name? I'm sorry to tell you this, Mr.…

Hyde denied this, but fudged somewhat, claiming both that such sackings were "possible" and that the…

On the one hand, I'm appalled at the direction this government is taking Auckland and the country. On the other, it gives the Greens and Labour some real points to make about the risks of voting in a National government.…