Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: To have a home

David Hood

Sat, 12 Sep 2015 08:11:03 +1200

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/sep/11/help-is-coming-how-i-chose-a-forgotten-crowded-house-song-to-help-syrian-refugees

{oops see it was already posted in the thread admidst the comms? student(s)?}

chris

Wed, 09 Sep 2015 04:09:48 +1200

Yeah I saw that one, it certainly offers some perspective. I try to keep abreast of this kind of thing as every single job I had in China including here, this company, the company listed above, and, in fact all of them – were breaking some law or another. Be…

TracyMac

Tue, 08 Sep 2015 22:18:28 +1200

I won't keep banging the drum, but here's an encouraging story from just today: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11509633

:-)

chris

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 19:53:04 +1200

Thanks for that help Tracy, I discussed these suggestions with her, but she’s not prepared to take those kinds of steps at this stage – that is despite her boss’s dad losing his temper at her twice today – as she said to me “you know my culture…”, but I’ll…

TracyMac

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 19:11:58 +1200

If she's gone past the rubbish trial period, then you can't be fired for discussing your employment terms and conditions.

No sick pay is illegal. No holiday pay is illegal, except in limited instances of your truly being a casual worker, in which case you must get a holiday loading…

chris

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 17:09:46 +1200

Thanks Sofie, obviously the risk of discussing this with someone in authority could be her ending up with no job at all, but yeah, once she finds something less demanding, though it’s hard to say how long that will take. Personally I was like “wow you’re earning minimum wage!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTqXEQ2l-Y…

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 16:50:34 +1200

My wife is a new migrant here this year, though by no stretch a refugee. She was lucky to have found a job here in May working for migrants who pay her minimum wage, she spends 9½ hour days per day on her feet, in an unheated workplace (even the…

chris

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 15:28:12 +1200

but those risks are of a different order to the daily risks people face in refugee camps trying to avoid violence and get enough food, before they even start worrying about an education for their children.

Thanks Lucy, when you put it that way it becomes a very low brainer,…

Steve Barnes

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 15:25:18 +1200

I have just been told that refugees are only allowed to go to 4 centres in NZ, presumably Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin.
The person I heard this from lives in Whangarei. "The wife and I tried to volunteer a spare bedroom to house a refuge or refuge couple but…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 14:19:40 +1200

With housing and health research – and a bit of respiratory health and infectious disease on the side – being my day job, I’m pretty well-acquainted with the condition of the national housing stock. So when I say “it’s not much, but it’s home”, I’m well aware that in some…

Steve Barnes

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 14:11:31 +1200

They begged for the Syrians, he did nothing, he was not a Syrian.
The Aliens came and said "Take me to your leader", I did nothing, I was too embarrassed.
To paraphrase Martin Niemöller.

chris

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 13:10:29 +1200

“it’s not much, but it’s home”

That would be a good start. I'm definitely experiencing acute cognitive dissonance with regards to these issues.

Sofie Bribiesca

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 12:44:24 +1200

He's got our best interests at heart, That Nice Mr Key.

Explained here in Bryan Gould's article

Matthew Poole

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 10:30:32 +1200

Mr Key, being the son of a WW2 refugee, has basically “slammed the door behind him”

That's the MO of this Cabinet, really. Pull-ya Benefit hauled up the TIA ladder behind her.

Matthew Poole

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 10:22:59 +1200

Key himself has whipped up fear of Islamic extremism to justify all sorts of new spying powers. If you trust that nice man Mr. Key, then how can you not believe we are under siege from shadowy ISIS sympathisers, and need to be constantly on the alert?

But That Nice…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 10:17:16 +1200

With apologies to an unnamed journalist in Australia, Mr Key, being the son of a WW2 refugee, has basically "slammed the door behind him".

Tom Semmens

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 10:12:37 +1200

Key's problem is almost certainly that his focus groups tell him the majority of muddle Nu Ziland is afflicted with a serious case of Islamophobia, and beyond that we've ALWAYS had a degree of xenophobia about foreigners in general (yes the irony is not lost). After all, if New Zealand…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Mon, 07 Sep 2015 06:38:50 +1200

If someone is homeless and in desperate need, should you offer them accommodation when you know that your place might actually be a death trap?

Yes. The homeless person is not comatose. You can tell them what the risks are at your house, "it's not much, but it's home", and…

chris

Sun, 06 Sep 2015 18:55:04 +1200

You could ask the question of “if someone needs first aid, should you do what you can, or avoid helping because you are not a doctor”

That would really depend on your knowledge, for anyone swayed by that, if you suspect someone may have spinal injuries please don’t move them.…

andin

Sun, 06 Sep 2015 13:37:45 +1200

nothing but a burden
We have all been a burden at some stage of our life. I find having to put up with the willful stupidity of the likes of johnkey and blinglish a wearisome burden.
How can seemingly intelligent people be such a burden to the rest of the…

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 06 Sep 2015 11:52:30 +1200

Lazar, us?
Somewhere there will be a divergent node of reality where John Key's mother Ruth Lazar never made it out of Austria as a refugee, and no compliant British Soldier would marry her aunt to legitimise her stay in Britain, allowing her to meet George Key and then come to…

Andre

Sun, 06 Sep 2015 11:01:39 +1200

Maybe we could take in the boat people being held in indefinite detention by the Australian government at Nauru and Manus Island instead. They were fleeing Iraq, Afghanistan etc and the problem (the words 'ongoing humanitarian disaster' spring to mind) is very local to us.
After their ill treatment by…

David Hood

Sun, 06 Sep 2015 10:53:26 +1200

Translating "are NZers equipped", "should we risk only helping making life somewhat better for them"

You could ask the question of "if someone needs first aid, should you do what you can, or avoid helping because you are not a doctor"

Rosemary McDonald

Sun, 06 Sep 2015 10:18:15 +1200

Wishy-Washy

Flippy-floppy.
Fuzzy-wuzzy,
Twisty-turny,

Our Leader.

Doomy-gloomy.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 06 Sep 2015 10:02:35 +1200

John Key completely blows great opportunity to claw back some credibility in the humanitarian stakes:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/05/new-zealand-to-take-100-syrian-refugees-says-united-nations
New Zealand government rejects claim it has agreed to take 100 Syrian refugees
The claim, made on Saturday by a spokeswoman for the UN refugee agency, was rejected by prime minister John Key’s office.…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 06 Sep 2015 09:57:11 +1200

children in state care, those with mental health issues, our disabled citizens.

I fear that there are plenty of people in this country that consider them to be nothing but a burden too, one of them is our own Prime Minister.
Shame.

Rosemary McDonald

Sun, 06 Sep 2015 09:24:53 +1200

“Are New Zealanders equipped to cope with people who have been traumatized?

Short answer...no.

Longer answer...That's no reason to not take in refugees...we just NEED to be aware that simply providing a home, three squares, education etc., may not be sufficient.

Look how well we have done for our indigenous…

Rosemary McDonald

Sat, 05 Sep 2015 17:07:38 +1200

Back on topic.

Some years ago our family was a temporary refuge for a very wee lad of Iraqi/Kiwi ancestry.

Dad was a child of the Tampa(we think) and had grown up amid bombs and guns and generalised mayhem.

Mum was a victim of familial, generational sexual abuse and violence.…

Steve Barnes

Sat, 05 Sep 2015 16:35:35 +1200

Steve, do you ever give it a rest?

Nope, I am not the lay down and die kinda guy.

Danielle

Sat, 05 Sep 2015 15:14:34 +1200

Jesus fucking Christ, Steve, do you ever give it a rest?

Steve Barnes

Sat, 05 Sep 2015 13:37:08 +1200

Breaking News...
Nz to take 100 extra refugees from Syria...
Update...
That was a year ago and was included in the 750 intake...
Update...
Prime Minister John Key has rejected claims this morning the government is opening the gates to an Syrian refugees.
Update...
Former Prime Minister Helen Clark has…

Hilary Stace

Sat, 05 Sep 2015 11:22:34 +1200

NZ has largely been settled by refugees of one kind or another from the Highland clearances and the Irish potato famine or seeking freedom to practice their religion or utopian ideas to those just seeking a new life in a new country. In the 1870s refugees from Britain and Europe…

Martin Roberts

Sat, 05 Sep 2015 07:04:26 +1200

Helen Clark reminded us, in her recent Reeves Lecture, that we also need to work towards peace within Syria. There are so many still in the country who deserve better and who would overwhelm us if forced to flee.

I liked her language of investing in peace, which we seem…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 05 Sep 2015 00:02:03 +1200

As for old matter of fact Magic “fait accompli” Mike:

I’m only surprised that he didn’t play the Huntingtonian “The Muslims are coming!” card. Although he thinks taking in refugees is a 'complex problem' while the West having troops in Iraq is not.

chris

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 19:33:32 +1200

As for old matter of fact Magic "fait accompli" Mike:

Not even close.

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 18:41:25 +1200

Labour and Greens calling for compassion

Thalia KR

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 18:10:18 +1200

Yes, I see what you're saying. I think, in practice, that it's hard to separate the two things because of the emotive rhetoric involved in the hardline asylum policy.

I think the hard-heartedness of the current government in relation to our _refugee_ policy is influenced by their _asylum_ policy.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:40:11 +1200

That is so much like “It’s ok, Labour did it”.

So very much the opposite: it's saying "It's not OK, whoever does it".

Steve Barnes

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:10:09 +1200

Christchurch will be able to enjoy 'South Pacific', the musical.

Ah, the "Good Old Days", good to see Christchurch still retains that colonial soul.
Personally I think South Pacific, the Musical should be banned forthwith, just for being a musical as much as anything else.

Matthew Reid

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 16:27:59 +1200

I think we have two paths ahead of us. Either we (by which I mean the government) shake ourselves out of the odd hypnotic apathy of recent years and remember that we are global citizens who like to feel like we are doing our bit (remember all the warm glowy…

wendyf

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 15:41:48 +1200

Next month Christchurch will be able to enjoy 'South Pacific', the musical. I'm hoping that those in the audience take in the message – a young man from the US who falls in love with a young native girl, but can't bring himself to actually marry her, acknowledging you've got…

Katharine Moody

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 15:20:43 +1200

How about we scrap our entire Immigration Services departmental expense (roughly $210million pa);

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/2015/suppestimates/suppest15immig.pdf

Increase our refugee quota to the equivalent of the present migrant numbers (the UN effectively takes on the full cost of that processing function)

And spend the saved $210m on building our capacity to settle these…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 14:53:58 +1200

I kind of think the important thing from this post is that we've got a long history of "could do better" in refugees and immigration policy,

What?
That is so far from what is important here. That is so much like "It's ok, Labour did it".
More handwringing. "I feel…

blindjackdog

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 14:16:30 +1200

Our world is host to so many who are committed to the international freedom of movement of commodities, currencies and corporate cultures – not to mention the mechanisms for coercive enforcement of those freedoms. Yet they appear strangely reluctant to grant similar rights of movement to sentient creatures such as…

Joe Wylie

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 13:59:00 +1200

Everything that Labour does is directly hands-on micromanaged by the spirit of Michael Joseph Savage. Of course the media don't want you to know this. Here he is briefing Trevor Mallard on the vital mission of bringing back the moa from extinction.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 13:55:11 +1200

Whatever, Steve. I'm still raw from seeing photos of dead toddlers on beaches, so forgive me if I kind of think the important thing from this post is that we've got a long history of "could do better" in refugees and immigration policy, and the current crisis may be enough…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 13:18:30 +1200

Perhaps we're looking at it through different eyes.

Mine may be considerably older.

Steve Barnes

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 13:17:26 +1200

Meanwhile, over at the Herald....
a little girl writes
Smally's article on this subject is quite enlightening in it comments. The usual suspects spew their vile hatred and blame the lefties for spending their "hard earned money" on those despicable refugees that just want to invade our perfect country.…

Deep Blue

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 13:16:42 +1200

Steve, I certainly don't get that from this piece ?
Perhaps we're looking at it through different eyes.

Steve Barnes

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 12:49:44 +1200

And if you think this site is vehemently anti-Labour

It never was but over the past few years it has moved in that direction.
Pointing out that Labour wasn't perfect adds nothing to the situation other than diluting the disgust at National and John Key in particular.
What it tells…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 12:37:29 +1200

Does the Aussie term "slamming the door behind you" come to mind?

TracyMac

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 12:36:41 +1200

What Lucy said. While Labour may not be as bad as some, they're hardly leaders in immigration policy – at least not of the welcoming kind.

And if you think this site is vehemently anti-Labour, you're mistaken. The mark of maturity is to be able to take "you could do…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 12:26:11 +1200

I saw that as a way of pointing out that governments of all stripes have been less great than they might have been in their immigration policies. It's not about putting down Labour. It's about being even-handed in criticism.

Steve Barnes

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 12:17:23 +1200

Good grief, I knew it was getting bad here but this takes the cake.
the less savoury elements of the Labour government's Immigration Act
Using this situation to put down Labour is the lowest this blog has got.
Why you even felt it was worth going there is beyond me.…

Euan Mason

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 12:03:43 +1200

Great post, Russell.

"Isn’t that what you’d want for your family? And with all the talk about national values amid the flag debate, wouldn’t you want offering that chance to our share of those in need to stand as a marker of New Zealand values?"

Yes, and yes.

Andre

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 11:33:29 +1200

We had 117,000 migrants arrive in the year to July. Many are in reality escaping totalitarian regimes but are wealthy enough to do so. Most seem to invest primarily in housing.
Many then invite family to join them.
No-one has ever asked if we want to ship in a million…

tim kong

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 10:34:44 +1200

"There is no Them."

Read that many years ago.

Still apt.

Russell, thanks for the stories in this post.

Thalia KR

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 10:21:22 +1200

Lulastic

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 10:17:59 +1200

This is a really powerful post- it is so important to talk about the stories of people behind the concept of a "refugee crisis" – thank you.
I read a fantastic kiwi blog on this http://sacraparental.com/2015/06/18/refugees-welcome/ (And again, powerful reminders of the tradition of being a welcoming country)

Dan Salmon

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:59:38 +1200

Helen Clark talks about opening NZ doors to the tampa refugees as one of her greatest moments as PM. It was an important thing to do, but also symbolic. In the grand scheme of things, even if New Zealand isn't able to take many people, a strong humanitarian gesture can…

Emma Hart

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:47:43 +1200

There were several refugee families at my kids' primary school. My son was friends with Abbas and Ali Nazari, whose family were on the Tampa.. Their sister, whose name I unfortunately can't remember, wrote an extraordinary account of their journey, of her moment of utter certainty that she was going…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:40:42 +1200

As I just commented on facebook: I will be very pleased if the New Zealand government agrees to take more refugees. Every country should do more than it thinks it can to help our fellow human beings.
I will also be embarrassed, because by agreeing to take more refugees now,…

Mandy S

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:36:18 +1200

John Key's mother was a refugee from the Nazis in Austria. But she and her family only got the papers to escape because her aunt was able to get to the UK and paid a British soldier to marry her.

Russell Brown

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:27:07 +1200

Even if NZ raises it's quota, the system is quite slow moving and won't do a great deal to help the people that need help immediately. To get here they first have to get to a UN camp, where they will have to wait a long time to be processed.…

Russell Brown

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:25:23 +1200

I couldn't help recalling Dave Dobbyn's "Welcome Home"

Great minds! I just added it to the post. Let both instances stand :-)

Vivid

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:14:13 +1200

Robert Harvey

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:06:55 +1200

Right on Russell!
How far would $26 million go towards helping people into what is in fact a wealthy, lightly populated country, ours?

David Hood

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:06:30 +1200

I couldn't help recalling Dave Dobbyn's "Welcome Home"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQlVmvXAGLI

Public Address

Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:06:30 +1200

Discussion from blog post.