Remind me, when does Mugabe get the ADF visit, or for that matter Myanmar, which is a little closer to home for John, but clearly not on his radar

The there was…

And what exactly was the strategic value for Australia being in Iraq? Self defense? The only possible rationale was to ingratiate themselves with the US, which was exactly the same reason NZ sent a token force however briefly. It's hardly rocket science Neil.

I was being snippy. But there were…

they did also have a fairly substantial interest in wheat exports to the country too though

ah, but I thought Honest John didn't know anything about that ...

As Neil infers, he's a man of quite some principle

And what exactly was the strategic value for Australia being in Iraq? Self defense? The only possible rationale was to ingratiate themselves with the US

they did also have a fairly substantial interest in wheat exports to the country too though... in the immortal words of baron howard harkonnen, "the…

Maybe some people actually agreed with Bush......you don't really have a mind of your own.

having watched Australia, without a word of explanation, reversing travel warnings 180 degrees last year when the US issued a contradictory one a couple of days after Australia's, and watched Bush and Howard's Texas meetings,…

They're unlikely to be quite as subservient and submissive to Washington as Howard has deemed necessary in recent years.

Maybe some people actually agreed with Bush. The world doesn't have to be all S&M. But I suppose it's a less intellectually demanding approach to take with those one disagrees with -…

Do they make oscillators specifically for smart bomb GPS units, or do they make oscillators for GPS units, some of which are used by the military, some for smart bombs?
Its the difference between making a weapon and making something that can be used as (or in) a weapon.

Yes…

Compared with Rakon ... who supply oscillators used in GPS systems

Do they make oscillators specifically for smart bomb GPS units, or do they make oscillators for GPS units, some of which are used by the military, some for smart bombs?
Its the difference between making a weapon and making…

A possible Democratic President won't be around till Jan 2009. We have an election before then. Might not be Labour having to do decide on whether to u-turn

More to the point, a Rudd led Australian government seems less inclined, as seems likely, to keep Overwatch Battle Group (West) there…

How many degrees of separation from objectionable activities are needed to make people comfortable?

Well people are currently up in arms over a commercial airliner taking soldiers of an allied country, to Kuwait, a country which borders another 'friendly' country, which is currently occupied and in civil war mess. I'm…

A possible Democratic President won't be around till Jan 2009. We have an election before then. Might not be Labour having to do decide on whether to u-turn.

Perhaps it was just me, but I thought I sensed a collective popular yawn about the Air New Zealand issue? The press…

To be quite blunt, I'd take anything anyone in the US has to say about Iraq with a grain of salt – and a whole case of tequila.

I'm less in need of excuses for a few margaritas although anything about the war does tend to bring on a craving…

would I be correct in my guess that all those who dont see what all the fuss is about ( in regards to air Nz) are the same people who supported the original bogus invasion of Iraq??? .

I don't see what the fuss is about, and I'm a (relatively…

To be quite blunt, I'd take anything anyone in the US has to say about Iraq with a grain of salt – and a whole case of tequila.

And Russell wrote:

Sigh ... but Rakon isn't 80% owned by the New Zealand government, is it? Even if you take…

AN INCOMING Democratic president of the US would look to Australia to keep its troops in Iraq as long as possible, for up to a further three years,…

But wouldn't it be a refreshing change to have a politician admit to past pot use and not immediately rush a qualifier like "I'm not proud of it" or "I regret it now" or "it was foolish of me" or "I didn't inhale"?

Yes. And I'd take that further.

What…

Hell no it shud never have happened, but we went as part of the coillition of the slightly reluctant.

The point is we went armed to Iraq, so…

We are morally outraged that Air NZ flew Aussies TOWARD Eyerack, but we don't care that Rakon is more directly involved in the War on Terrur, making wobbly things that guide smart bombs used by the USA in the same part of the world?
That's so muddled it's not even…

Perhaps, but come one... he's a filthy rich yuppie scumbag and we all know that they're perverts. :)

Craig, I know your comment was in jest but I do have to (mildly) object to the stereotype. Either way, I figure most heterosexual men have been to strip clubs at some…

Apart from the fact it was not a Wishart scoop, nobody "blindsides" these people...it's much too easy to simply "dumbside" them. Shooting fish in a barrel, though the nats don;lt…

"and an arrogant wanker with very much the white man's burden on his ample shoulders

Heh – the Scottish phrase I liked was (used in reference to a similarly dislikable twerp – Rob Andrew) "He's got a face like a…

Not a national carrier. Not for years.
Not a troop carrier. Except when there's a $ to be earned.
Not brave enough to front its majority shareholder and say "well, Big…

are we friends with war zones now?

Well, since you asked the question, nz native, I'd say Timor-Leste has quite a way to go before it could be classed as a "real functioning country" – and the political instability and violence over the last sixteen months or so didn't help…

. . . the Harold Holt Public Swimming Poo . . .

Harold "swam to Russia" Holt – what a rich heritage of laughs he bequeathed the nation with the special manner of his passing.
One of the few fun things about riding the Sydney trains was the occasional interesting…

God knows in the rich history of rat-bastardry that is Australian politics, Rudd is as close to squeaky clean as anyone's likely to get. :)

That's a damn good point. This is very suspicious, in fact. While we're at it, Costello looks too bloody clean to be true,…

I'm very curious to know what Key's been so quick to tell his tale? I doubt he feels there's an advantage to it, rather I suspect he's had prior warning of some anonymous tip-off to the press.

Perhaps, but come one... he's a filthy rich yuppie scumbag and we all…

........ as for Iraq being a 'friend' of ours, does anyone seriously…

There was a very loaded poll on one newspaper web site which asked whether Rudd's strip club visit was "in the national interest". An incredibly loaded queston.

At time of writing, over 50% said yes it was.

Heh – gotta love that larrikin humour, eh? Every time I go and…

Air NZ did tell people – it was in their monthly magazine a couple of months ago.

You mean to say the country's self acclaimed greatest investigative journalist eva got his story from his target's own publication?

Wow, what skill, what…

Not sure if the Rudd thing has made such a splash for the reasons you suggest. It seems to be more that its seen as quite titillating, with an election on the way and it is easier to talk about than, say, fiscal policy.

The only…

I wrote the letter after watching the news in the departure lounge and asking the AirNZ person at…

You forgot to mention that he kept his eyes closed

And he never inhaled.

Oh come on, it'll be a laugh.

I'm actually kind of looking looking forward to the Nats being in power. The policy will be crap of course, but MMP means they won't be able to get away with much if they want to finish the…

She was much younger and more nubile than me. Even Craig would probably agree she was "hot". She invited me for a lap dance in 'a private room'. I felt it was a part of life's rich tapestry that I should…

The only reason Rudd's little night out has made such a splash is…

Way to ruin my day...

To be honest, I guess you've got a point

And let it not be thought that I don't think you have a point too. But I'm quite enjoying having an argument.

[Disappears back under gigantic mountain of work.]

Our own international statesman is hardly a humble envoy. And in twelve months time we'll probably have Murray McCully representing our country.

and an arrogant wanker with very much the white man's burden on his ample shoulders

Heh – the Scottish phrase I liked was (used in reference to a similarly dislikable twerp – Rob Andrew) "He's got a face like a smacked arse".

I confess, that's probably the basis of my response. Downer is a smug, unpleasant, political bully-boy.

and an arrogant wanker with very much the white man's burden on his ample shoulders if seen from Indonesia. His strutting superiority and condescension towards the lessor souls here (as seen from his side…

Clark's bite-back is political, but I can understand why she wouldn't want to be patronised by Downer.

Then again, Russell, I will be more than understanding if Downer just happens to release notes of the meeting where he briefed Clark about the invite to speak at the National Party conference…

you've kicked off the shackles of logic to howl at the moon.

In politics "our" people are more important than "other" people and logic is not an important criteria. If our troops are kicked to touch by a foreign government we consider it a hostile action by that foreign government.…

I'm told the buy out could have worked, if the civil aviation body in Oz enforced saftey requirements in the privious five years.

"If they tried this up north, we'd be out with guns."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4122207a10.html

During the Air NZ v Ansett battle a few letters to the editor praised Ansett and they got a bit of deserved mileage from it.

I was living in Australia at the time, and the media view there was interesting on the Ansett sale/Air NZ collapse.

While there was a…

Meanwhile, The Press has picked up (naturally, without attribution) on Rob O'Neill's scoop about an Air New Zealand employees editing the article on the ill-fated Erebus flight — and rather missed the point.

It's about time someone took this sort of thing to the Press Council; it's straight out theft…

During the Air NZ v Ansett battle a few letters to the editor praised Ansett and they got a bit of deserved mileage from it.
An Air NZ manager sent a memo encouraging staff to write bogus we love…

Downer's the scion of an old Liberal political family. In his youth he was patted on the head by Menzies, a form of symbolic anointing which gives him Holy Idiot status in Howard's Ming-worshipping world view.

Such figures are not limited to…

Total NZ stories on the trans-Tasman spat in the past 24 hours = 24

Total Australian stories = 5

Total NZ stories today = 8

Total Australian stories today = 0

We seem a lot more exercised than they are.

The plane didn;t go to Iraq so you could equally leave that word out as well and substitute it for Kuwait, or Dubai, or Bahrain, or Beirut.

I don't think anyone believes they were going to Kuwait, and no further. They were going to Kuwait to deploy elsewhere, it's my…

I thought this paragraph was a bit disingenuous though:

I was unable to find any record…

The plane didn;t go to Iraq so you could equally leave that word out as well and substitute it for Kuwait, or Dubai, or Bahrain, or Beirut. I think the inference has been drawn that NZ was saying the Aussies were going to be involved in something so terrible…

it's a matter of taking on a military charter flight in the prosecution of a war from which our government wants to keep a clear distance.

In the words of David Brent "obviously not". The NZDF has been deployed to Iraq, and as Craig says Australia and Iraq are both…

I just can't stand being lectured to by that red-cheeked pompous smirker Lord Downer of Baghdad (the man who once saw fit to lecture Nelson Mandela on human rights issues and saw nary a glimpse of irony in his actions)

he was also the negotiator who bullied east timor into…

That said, on principle I just can't stand being lectured to by that red-cheeked pompous smirker Lord Downer of Baghdad (the man who once saw fit to lecture Nelson Mandela on human rights issues and saw nary a glimpse of irony in his actions).

I confess, that's probably the basis…

shouting that it is objectionable and wrong to transport Australian troops to Kuwait. Inferring that the Australian troops are objectionable material that must be kept off of our planes

Please.
the govt may have moral issues about profiting from the iraq war.…

That said, on principle I just can't stand being lectured to by that red-cheeked pompous smirker Lord Downer of…

One of Britain's leading conservative newspapers has sprung to Mr Rudd's defence.

The Daily Telegraph says the MP's excursion to the Scores club in 2003 is nothing to be ashamed of.

It said striptease was invented in New York…

Our senior ministers were in a purely domestic tizzy about being kept in the dark over a flight to Kuwait that everyone else seemed to know about. It was Downer who raised the stakes, surely.

How can it possibly be a purely domestic issue when it is a flight to…

Well blow me down.

Yes. Jesus had mountains more to say about 'the poor and downtrodden' (and money) than sex. I do,…

I do think that Rudd's christian principals should have alerted him to the moral dangers of 'titty bars'!

Possibly. But I think the essay makes it quite clear that Rudd sees the moral dimension of Christianity to lie with our attitude to the poor and downtrodden, not with obsessing about…

I think I agree with you Russell if you are not saying that christianity doesn't have a moral component, only that the moral component often gets in murky when brought into poiltics. However, there is a danger for…

He's a social-justice Christian, rather than a moral-right Christian.

Should I give him a cookie? I'm a get-the-ballot-box-the-hell-out-of-my-church Christian who wishes Arnold Vinnick wasn't a fictional character. Watching Tony Abbot and Rudd trying to prove who's the "better" Christian was a sight only fit of bullemics – because it sure…

On whether it matters: well, it clearly matters to frequent flyers like Paul Campbell. A lot.

Well, Russell, I don't particularly like the record of the Chinese Government on human rights,the treatment of religious and ethnic minorities, labour and environmental standards, copyright and intellectual property standards, that it executes more…

Ahh...interesting. I haven't been follow events across the ditch enough to see that Rudd had been waving his Jesus flag. Changes the context a bit.

He's a social-justice Christian, rather than a moral-right Christian. This ABC interview is quite interesting.

It's a follow-up to Rudd's October 2006 essay for The…

And…

Hard as this may be to accept, Air New Zealand (which is not an SOE or Crown entitly, BTW) entered into a lawful and legitimate…

And like it or not (and I guess most PA readers would go for the latter), Australia is a sovereign nation whose government doesn't require a permission slip from the Beehive to conduct its foreign policy – and deploy its armed forces – as it sees fit.

But I don't…

The funny thing is, if an equivalent story to the Rudd one had broken here, it would not have centred on any alleged moral failing, but on the fact that this was a taxpayer-funded trip...

No, I think folks might have been wondering WTF the leader of an opposition party…

Our senior ministers were in a purely domestic tizzy about being kept in the dark over a flight to Kuwait that everyone else seemed to know about. It was Downer who raised the stakes, surely.

Well, yes, you would say that – and you're wrong. Hard as this may be…

The sex industry & psychology go hand in hand – they're all f*@ked in the head.

When I lived (briefly) in Darwin in the mid 90s, at least 70% of pubs had lingerie or strip shows on a Friday lunch time (no, I never went to one). That suggests that a reasonable…

Air NZ did tell people – it was in their monthly magazine a couple of months ago.

Yeah, I know, every man and his dog knew – but it does actually seem that the ministers didn't.

It'll be interesting to see whether Air NZ follows through on its promise to…