Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: The Uses of Dotcom

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 18 Feb 2014 12:41:58 +1300

Had the census not been delayed by the Government (and, you know, the Canterbury Earthquake), we’d have had the boundaries a couple of years ago.

Thank you, Graeme. Though I’m not blaming the RC for anything, you’re quite right on the points of fact. Even there, while there were plenty…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:34:31 +1300

It’s also meant “delays” for every other party, Mark. And here’s a crazy idea, Mark: Perhaps its NOT the job of the Representation Commission to be of “benefit” to any party or faction? Nor is it their job to determine the internal affairs (including candidate selection) of Labour, National or…

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 18 Feb 2014 11:01:28 +1300

Delaying the announcement of redrawn electorate boundaries as long as they did meant delaying selection of candidates for Labour, which is of no benefit to the left.

It's also meant "delays" for every other party, Mark. And here's a crazy idea, Mark: Perhaps its NOT the job of the Representation…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:18:53 +1300

Key wins when people who want the same thing don't cut each other any slack...

Word, Ian.

Keir Leslie

Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:08:36 +1300

Realistically, nine months is a reasonably long time for a candidate to have to fight a seat. It is good to select candidates early but it is also important not to select candidates too early when there's insufficient information about the eventual race. Obviously this cycle we had uncertainty about…

nzlemming

Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:43:44 +1300

I, too, have been frustrated by Labour's arcane selection process, not in Christchurch but here in the Otaki electorate. After the last election, when replacement candidate Peter Foster lost to Nothin' Guy (but still got more votes than the Labour party vote – the red corner needs to think about…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:10:16 +1300

politic peace piece...
Joe, I read Stephen's reply more as a devil's advocation, something I do myself, regularly... and I note his frustration with the processes he is saddled with.
Plus he's only recently arrived in Christchurch and let's face it, it may as well be Polanski's Chinatown to an…

Stephen Judd

Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:26:39 +1300

Being cute is the only worthwhile response to your determined projections. Apart from silence, of course. By which I mean: laterz!

Joe Wylie

Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:58:48 +1300

Three factual errors in that one sentence. Although maybe I’m just not clear who “you” encompasses.
I’m talking to you, in the supercilious prick persona you’ve been maintaining since your original stupidly provocative reply to Ian Dalziel. If you wish to be cute about it that’s your problem.

Stephen Judd

Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:53:42 +1300

You’d be up for an endless procession of surprises if you took the trouble to find out what’s really going on in a part of the world you’re happy to talk down to.

Three factual errors in that one sentence. Although maybe I'm just not clear who "you" encompasses. I…

Joe Wylie

Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:45:33 +1300

You’re certainly surprising me with insights into my own character
You'd be up for an endless procession of surprises if you took the trouble to find out what's really going on in a part of the world you're happy to talk down to. Even after several terms as an MP…

Stephen Judd

Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:03:08 +1300

Have you considered hanging out a shingle as a therapist? You're certainly surprising me with insights into my own character, and from such scant evidence too.

Joe Wylie

Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:18:54 +1300

Remember, this was in response to Ian suggesting that there’s no candidate becuase of “arrant madness”. How is it condescending to point out that the party’s stuck with acting in accordance with its own constitution?
O poor petal. And you a card-carrying jewel-of-nature paid-up party member!
Condescension and contempt for…

Stephen Judd

Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:00:48 +1300

Want to talk about Chch Central issues, but you’re merely a long-term resident? Pay your sub and step inside where we can safely patronise you. So the boneheaded condescension that nearly cost Labour Chch Central in 2008, and lost it to Nicky “differently abled” Wagner last time around, appears to…

Joe Wylie

Mon, 17 Feb 2014 09:51:20 +1300

It seems Lianne saw she could do more for Chchch as Mayor than as a Labour politician, and whatever that says to the electorate needs to be clarified…
My now-retired next door neighbour remembers Lianne as a proactive and effective union person from the days when she worked in the…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 17 Feb 2014 09:35:47 +1300

What joe said...
...I agree. Wagner was a 'cuckoo candidate' from day one, on the National list (for whatever reason) she had an office on a high profile street in Chchch (Montreal), many people thought she already was the 'local MP' due to that alone.
Then at least Labour always…

Joe Wylie

Mon, 17 Feb 2014 07:14:05 +1300

Because the Labour party has an ancient and complex democratic constitution that prescribes the timing and process for electorate selections. Personally I think it needs a thorough overhaul, but considering the changes already made in the last 2 years, it’s going to take a while. Sorry. If you find it…

Chris Waugh

Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:46:39 +1300

And of course when the equation evolves a larger than life, flamboyant character who certainly seems to have a taste for publicity, and, of course, Winston Peters, there's not much needed in the way of Secret Squirrel skulduggery to find out who's meeting who.

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:20:52 +1300

Nor is it impossible (and a damn sight more likely) that Winston himself, or someone close to him, got a little loose-lipped over a few jars and the hot goss ended up being repeated into Cameron Slater's quivering lug-hole. Because nobody in political/media circles could see the irony in Winston…

Rich of Observationz

Sat, 15 Feb 2014 12:58:11 +1300

It's not impossible that someone in the GCSB/NZSIS/Police/US might use Slater as a convenient cut-out to launder information they want out there.

Stephen Judd

Sat, 15 Feb 2014 12:29:24 +1300

Why didn’t they pick someone when they picked the Christchurch East candidate?
Smacks of arrant madness…

Sacha

Sat, 15 Feb 2014 09:35:43 +1300

and how did Slater know?

Craig Ranapia

Sat, 15 Feb 2014 09:00:05 +1300

Not that I actually care, but hasn’t Peters confirmed that… well… Cameron Slater was right? Sorry about that – but it’s not as if Kim Dotcom exactly lives like J.D. Salinger.

And nor is it particularly surprising that Winston tried to change the subject by pulling serious (and absurd) allegations…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 15 Feb 2014 07:26:20 +1300

John Key's best bud...
It appears that John Key used no Intelligence services to 'spy' on Winston Peters – he used Cameron Slater – so doubly true then!
Apparently they talk all the time, shudder – all the more reason for the National Regime to be swept from the pages…

Keir Leslie

Fri, 14 Feb 2014 15:28:42 +1300

Nominations close on the 28th, selection meeting is the 8th March. As far as I know Tony Milne is the only person to have announced they are seeking the nomination.

As I understand it this is pretty much as fast as the Labour Party is capable of going, considering the…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 14 Feb 2014 11:16:14 +1300

Labour's lost ground...
an aside to the main thread, but tangentially connected:
Just who the hell is the Labour Central Christchurch candidate?
Time is wasting, what are they waiting for?
The boundary changes should only worry someone like Nicky Wagner who is really only there by the vagaries of fate…

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 13 Feb 2014 12:46:10 +1300

Also: Gordon Campbell

..the same offence meant to justify Dotcom’s extradition – i.e. secondary copyright infringement as a criminal offence – is something that every member country of the Trans Pacific Partnership trade talks (except the US, but including New Zealand) has agreed to reject within the TPP negotiations? As…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:29:43 +1300

the Immigration Minister

*cough* Justice Minister, of course. Sorry for the error.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:28:01 +1300

Because once you are in power, even on matters that you feel really, really strongly about, you need to be able to pretend that you are coming to decisions with a mind that is amenable to change based on the facts before it.

That's government.

And with all due and…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 21:03:26 +1300

Andrew Geddis, who actually knows what he's talking about, comments on this.

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:26:06 +1300

Gower's blog. Russel Norman needs to have a long, hard think:

The Kim Dotcom brain fade is back, but this time it's the Opposition that can't recall.

Green Party co-leader Russel Norman had a blank on crucial details of his mansion meetings, and Dotcom has claimed to 3 News he's…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 18:27:47 +1300

Jesus wept. Just saw the PM on Prime news, Soper let him get away with saying the Greens would ride over the authority of the courts and blah blah.

Hear that noise? It's the sound of a dentist making a fortune when I grind my teeth down to the gum…

Alex Coleman

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:43:53 +1300

Jesus wept. Just saw the PM on Prime news, Soper let him get away with saying the Greens would ride over the authority of the courts and blah blah.

It's times like this when I remember how apt the description is of pol. journos as being like watching five yr…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:33:23 +1300

But if Labour gets in and Dotcom subsequently gets to the end of the classic legal path, then Cunliffe’s government will be under an obligation to “intervene” by reviewing all aspects of the situation and deciding whether to extradite.

I don’t think it’s a semantic split end to say that’s…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 16:44:25 +1300

But if Labour gets in and Dotcom subsequently gets to the end of the classic legal path, then Cunliffe's government will be under an obligation to "intervene" by reviewing all aspects of the situation and deciding whether to extradite. It's not like a trial where the courts' decision is final…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 16:21:09 +1300

WTF is Armstrong on about?

Ha! John Armstrong is blinded by John Key's aura?

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:44:08 +1300

Woah. John Armstrong tees off on the Greens like he has the secret papers outlining their cunning deal with Dotcom. Which he, of course, does not.

He also says this:

Unfortunately, Labour's leader David Cunliffe was equivocal yesterday about ruling out special treatment for Dotcom.

Which Cunliffe absolutely fucking did not…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:39:55 +1300

Yes, they have form for trying to foist wierdos on us. Why they thought the intelligent, liberal electorate of Welly Central would vote for Franks escapes me.

Possibly no mainstream nats want to run in a marginal seat, where losing is considered to be a personal failing. (Losing in ones…

Christopher Nimmo

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 15:12:45 +1300

(The interesting thing is that many *National* party voters must have given their electorate votes to Grant rather than Foster-Bell. I assume this is the liberalism / tax dodging conflict manifesting itself, or the sheer repulsiveness of the National candidate)

12.7% of them, as opposed to 3.7% the previous election…

Richard Aston

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 14:52:01 +1300

Look! I made a sheep metaphor
You can lead a sheep to water
But you can't make it, metaphor

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 14:05:05 +1300

Rich:

Grant's been involved in Wellington Central campaigning long before he became the MP, and you don't need a masters in political science to see Labour wasn't hurt by National's support and local organization getting seriously hurt by the "Bolgering" of Mark Thomas. (And even under MMP, it's pretty hard…

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:42:28 +1300

Nothing equivocal (“this is pure speculation”) about 3 News’ graphic in this piece.

Good grief.

Graeme Edgeler

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:33:26 +1300

I assume this is the liberalism / tax dodging conflict manifesting itself, or the sheer repulsiveness of the National candidate).

Or, you know, people like Grant and think he did a good job for Wellington Central over the previous 3 years.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:59:04 +1300

Wellington Central? Eh?

Grant Robertson has won the last two elections fair and square in a regular contest, as did Marian Hobbs before. Grant could even have survived the loss of all the ~5,700 Green party voters who didn't support James Shaw. (The interesting thing is that many *National* party…

Alex Coleman

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:53:51 +1300

"The outright denial is at 2:24 in the video linked to."

Doesn't make it into the text story at the link though.

Rob Stowell

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:00:35 +1300

Nothing equivocal (“this is pure speculation”) about 3 News' graphic in this piece.
Gower loves ‘gotchas’ so greatly it’s all he can see.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:38:29 +1300

The assumption is that National would be able to herd most of those 14,000 voters into the yards of whatever party they wished to favour*

M’kay – ask Grant Robertson how that played out in Wellington Central. Along with the truly bizarre Dotcom/Norman/Cunliffe threesome nobody has been able to explain…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:31:20 +1300

Or East Coast Bays, come to that. For a seat Murray McCully held at the last election with a 14,000 majority and over 60% of the party vote, certain commentators seem obsessed with all kinds of bizarre shenanigans.

Indeed. Would Murray McCully really go that quietly as political pundits would…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:48:34 +1300

Key has the art of dismissing or changing the question mastered, but doing so would not help Cunliffe. “Why won’t you answer my question David? Why?

”George: How about this

"I can't tell you anything about that,
But what I can tell you is this".....
But what I can tell…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:35:40 +1300

The assumption is that National would be able to herd most of those 14,000 voters into the yards of whatever party they wished to favour*

Look! I made a sheep metaphor

Matthew Poole

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:26:39 +1300

fundamental journalistic standards.

In countries where journalists working for major outlets are expected to have standards, you might have a point.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:25:59 +1300

Did you float a claim of shabby journalism without even watching the story about which you floated the possibility of being shabby?

YMMV, Graham, but I think when you’re accusing a political party of trying to game an extradition request for electoral advantage but bury the explicit denial from one…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:16:32 +1300

Also: what on earth would the Greens have to offer in votes in a Coatesville electorate race? Seems silly.

Or East Coast Bays, come to that. For a seat Murray McCully held at the last election with a 14,000 majority and over 60% of the party vote, certain commentators seem…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:06:55 +1300

If Gower has floated this claim of a deal and left out an outright denial that’s the case, that’s shabby.

That’s a very polite way of saying “a breech of fundamental journalistic standards.”

Key has the art of dismissing or changing the question mastered, but doing so would not help…

Graeme Edgeler

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:01:55 +1300

If Gower has floated this claim of a deal and left out an outright denial that’s the case, that’s shabby.

The outright denial is at 2:24 in the video linked to.

Did you float a claim of shabby journalism without even watching the story about which you floated the possibility…

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 09:03:51 +1300

Tweet last night from Gower:

The Greens-Dotcom election deal: #Epsom #Ohariu #EastCoastBays and now… #Coatesville http://t.co/YM9OIMzszU

And a reply from Greens press sec Clint Smith:

@patrickgowernz mate you’ve accidentally not included bit where Russel said “Did I made any kind of assurance around that? No”. No such deal

If Gower…

George Darroch

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 08:43:51 +1300

It would also help immeasurably if Messers Key and Cunliffe learned from their UK counterparts and practised saying “no comment.” There really is a great deal of wisdom in the old saw, ” ’tis better to keep silent and be thought a fool…”

Key has the art of dismissing or…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Feb 2014 00:16:36 +1300

It would help immeasurably if the MSM were to decide that, PM or not, Key’s “suspicions”, “suggestions”, and other such freshly squeezed opinions do not deserve to be treated as news.

It would also help immeasurably if Messers Key and Cunliffe learned from their UK counterparts and practised saying "no…

Pete

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:26:36 +1300

You all may have your reasons for not/voting for National but when John Key used the word "learnings" twice in one recent soundbite that cemented the deal for me

Sacha

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:11:59 +1300

but he's such a nice bloke. gave me some wine for xmas. so relaxed at the barbie. what do you mean my job involves thinking?

Matthew Poole

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:10:34 +1300

He's the PM. Be grateful they don't treat his fundamental bodily functions as news! (Though I'm not entirely convinced they don't report some of them as official policy.)

linger

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 20:07:45 +1300

It would help immeasurably if the MSM were to decide that, PM or not, Key's "suspicions", "suggestions", and other such freshly squeezed opinions do not deserve to be treated as news. Some chance of that though.

Sacha

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:33:50 +1300

He's got his own motivations for wanting to set up a political party. I suspect they are not to better New Zealand

That Karl Rove 'accuse your opponents of your own weaknesses' thing is really being thrashed by the Nats.

Let's hope more media folk notice so they don't get…

Russell Brown

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:46:57 +1300

The herald picks up the story but doesn't do much with it:

Greens leader Russel Norman told 3 News that a Greens government would probably fight to keep Dotcom in New Zealand.

He said that he did not support the extradition process.

"I just don't think it's fair ... look…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:38:44 +1300

I'm not sure about that. Perhaps if the statement were along the lines of "we'll extradite him by lunchtime" there might be a case of predetermination, but when the statement at issue is instead "we won't extradite him if we become Government" it's hard to see who would challenge the…

Marcelo Rodriguez Ferrere

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:01:21 +1300

Which is pretty sensible, as giving a straight answer either way would render their actions open to judicial review for bias or pre-determination.

I'm not sure about that. Perhaps if the statement were along the lines of "we'll extradite him by lunchtime" there might be a case of predetermination, but…

alobar

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:01:16 +1300

Is sounds like Norman would be more than prepared to stop the extradition if he got into power
[[http://www.3news.co.nz/Opinion-Labour-Greens-willing-to-free-Dotcom/tabid/1382/articleID/331730/Default.aspx |

3 News: A Government of the day has to sign off on Kim Dotcom's extradition – should the Government sign off on Dotcom's extradition?

Norman: No. I've always said I…

George Darroch

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:51:32 +1300

It's interesting. I overestimated their abilities at first, thinking that Dotcom had hired real talent and strategists (no, not those two). On that basis, I assumed that they could get in the range of 2%. Not enough to get into Parliament, and not enough to affect the result (because the…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:32:37 +1300

One of the issues at the crux of Dotcom's extradition is the difference between criminal and civil copyright infringement.

In most of our laws this is pretty clear: not paying a bill is something for civil action, whilst obtaining goods by pretending you paid (like bouncing a cheque in old…

Matthew Poole

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:20:41 +1300

It would have been unthinkable to consign the confused, vulnerable McKinnon to the US legal system.

FTFY. There's no justice in the US system unless you are wealthy, white, male and/or attractive.

Peter Cox

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:57:48 +1300

Good points Russell, cheers.

Looking forward to a drink again at some point :)

Russell Brown

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:42:52 +1300

I will say this is outright silly:

Dotcom, who knows how to create systems that ensure artists get paid for their endeavours, could provide valuable insight and knowledge in creating policy that makes New Zealand a key player in neutral and fair distribution of copyright.

I agree. Dotcom has no…

Idiot Savant

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:30:51 +1300

That's pretty big news. Trouble is, neither David Cunliffe or Russel Norman actually say that — or anything of the kind — in the report.

Which is pretty sensible, as giving a straight answer either way would render their actions open to judicial review for bias or pre-determination.

Peter Cox

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:22:37 +1300

Hi Russell,

I'm not sure I agree with the thoughtfulness of that column, particularly in terms of the copyright section. I'm not going to go through every part of that section line-by-line, but that part at least looks pretty histrionic to me...

I will say this is outright silly:

Dotcom,…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:16:35 +1300

Is your patron going to retire if he keeps polling zero, then?

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:01:11 +1300

That’s pretty big news. Trouble is, neither David Cunliffe or Russel Norman actually say that – or anything of the kind – in the report.

And I’m really glad they didn’t, because even putting aside the politics of it all it really should be a no-brainer that's it is dangerous…

Pete George

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 11:58:04 +1300

Dotcom also tweeted:
If #InternetParty won't poll 5+% before ballot papers are printed we'll self destruct & put our weight behind a party adopting our policies.
Statements like that can in politics are often self-fulfilling.

Russell Brown

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 11:48:01 +1300

Note that Dotcom subsequently tweeted this today:

I don't need the help of Labour / Greens in my extradition case. John Key & his gang are already doing that with their serial-law-breaking.

Public Address

Tue, 11 Feb 2014 11:48:01 +1300

Discussion from blog post.