Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: The Public Good

podgirl

Sun, 08 Apr 2007 04:30:36 +1200

Music month is always time for a good stir-up – issues need airing – hope they're listening.

podgirl

Sun, 08 Apr 2007 04:01:38 +1200

Campbell Smith: A further development to be taken account of is the newly-created market for podcasts of work. Copyright owners or licensed providers now make podcasts available for purchase and obtain a return. The wide time shifting provision in the Bill will interfere with the normal exploitation of copyright owners…

Nobody Important

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:44:31 +1200

Looks more like a headless chicken to me.

So whatever happened to The Headless Chickens? Can C4 do a Where Are They Now? show? (God knows MTV won't)

Everytime I see Fiona MacDonald on TV with that perky false smile I wince ...

Simon Holloway

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:13:18 +1200

very large companies with very bright lawyers and very bright technical folks have seen the writing on the wall, and decided that getting their business model enshrined in law is the bet approach to protecting their investment.

Why then the about face on DRM by EMI yesterday?

And why is…

Ben Austin

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:22:20 +1200

Good point about the ports. However I don't really know why the ports that are usually used for such p2p traffic are chosen. Is there a clear technical reason, or is it convenience, tradition, or what? Perhaps if monitoring or taxing started up on the current common ports, others would…

Simon Grigg

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:47:40 +1200

Part of the problem here is that the recording industry has gone about dealing with this problem in possibly the most arse-about-face way they could have conceived of. In reality the problem has very little to do with their customers doing anything wrong- they're problably consuming more music than they…

Stephen Judd

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:38:47 +1200

Something is going to come out of leftfield and nail this, though. It's just a matter of when.

That's a statement of faith and nothing more, Russell. At least if by that you mean some new development is going to rescue the big players from the prospect of decreasing profit.…

Simon Holloway

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:26:37 +1200

How do we collectively make contributions to terrestrial tv

As far as I am aware it's now done direct from the tax pool- I guess I should have said state owned terrestrial TV, although NZOnAir funds programmes shown on other stations too.

Nobody Important

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:23:38 +1200

I remember the first time I ever got binned by the licence people.

Yes, that Govt department were quite an outfit. When a new flatmate moved in she stupidly (but dutifully, she was quite the sheep) went to the Post Office and filled out a change of address form. Back…

Simon Holloway

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:16:12 +1200

As far as I am aware it is possible for ISPs to see what percentage of traffic is p2p based on traffic via certain standard application ports, and, to my knowledge this has something to do with how they work out their TOC management (they limit bandwidth allocated to those…

Russell Brown

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:07:27 +1200

Simon- the April fools may turn out to the people who who aren't thinking this laterally. It looked more like a sound business structure than most anything I've seen.
which I think was Bob Lefsetz's point and its one he makes in non April 1 posts quite often. He tends…

Ben Austin

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:59:15 +1200

How do we collectively make contributions to terrestrial tv? Do you mean the now abandoned licensing fee or stateowned BCL/TVNZ/NZonAir?

I remember the first time I ever got binned by the licence people. I was watching TV at my Harbour Tce flat in Dunedin with my flatmates and a middle…

Simon Holloway

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:44:29 +1200

Tethering the entire www to such a reginme is both impractical and unjust.

I remember reading an article in a local internet mag a few years back detailing exactly how to download the latest (insert NZ artist name) album "for free" complete with links to the p2p software and a…

Simon Grigg

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:32:42 +1200

Or, I should say, the record industry (meaning the majors)...the recording industry in my experience is quite the opposite...hungry for ideas, technology and change

Simon Grigg

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:29:49 +1200

Simon- the April fools may turn out to the people who who aren't thinking this laterally. It looked more like a sound business structure than most anything I've seen.

which I think was Bob Lefsetz's point and its one he makes in non April 1 posts quite often. He tends…

Ben Austin

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:28:01 +1200

P2P levies are an interesting concept, but given the culture of secrecy and the like which has grown up around them I'd doubt a levy regime would capture much of the traffic. Plus there is the fact that much of the world (lets say non western) trades film/music cheaply and…

Jake Pollock

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:16:02 +1200

With a taste in music history – tell me Einsteins – where do I go to buy a copy of Thomas Edison reciting "Mary had a little Lamb", pre 1914 – hell – pre 1900 recordings of all sorts, obscure comedy tracks we used to have on 78's, long broken/
…

Rob Stowell

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:04:26 +1200

I'd totally support a p2p levy, but a flat rate on the net ain't going to happen. I don't download music and micro or not, the idea that I'd have to pay for those who do is infuriating. Tethering the entire www to such a reginme is both impractical and…

Simon Grigg

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:45:37 +1200

You can have a top 10 album in NZ with about 300 sales in a week these days.

somebody in the US last week was boasting that they'd hyped a track to number 59 in the NZ "rock" chart last week. I commented that all that meant was that someone…

Simon Holloway

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:35:37 +1200

Granted it would probably have been a bit more hard work than 10 years sitting around doing nothing about it.

I think if you tried to rebuild the performance right body models worldwide from scratch now you'd probably scratch your head and go no, too hard, as well.

The level…

Russell Brown

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:15:47 +1200

A micropayment or traffic based system is also problematic, if I've understood you correctly. I think perhaps you may be over-estimating the sophistication of our ISP's or their back office systems if you think it could be easily created or monitored.

Lots of people have looked at this kind of…

Ben Austin

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:05:04 +1200

How would this levy actually work? If it was a flat levy on all subscribers then that would have never worked, given that a lot of people don't actually ever download stuff (I know I don't. No, seriously!) and would not want to pay purely on principle.

A micropayment or…

Simon Holloway

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:54:39 +1200

As someone who works in the "music industry" I have been very interested to see the level of interest in this topic. On reading that ruinous bit of PR from RIANZ last week I initially emailed the following to the NZHerald reporters-

"I wonder when someone might start looking into…

Stephen Judd

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:22:04 +1200

Ben: I started being aware of a live music scene, even in piddly Hamilton, in the late 80s, and for me about 1991 was a high water mark. After the benefit cuts and tertiary student funding changes musicians were being hassled to work , the drinking audience declined, and students…

Rob Stowell

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:57:29 +1200

To put it another way, Ben- how many bands of the early/mid 80s didn't have members who at one stage or another- but often all together- were on the dole? Or the "bursary"? Not many, if any!

Ben Austin

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:46:49 +1200

So the obvious question would be – was there a point pre benefit/loan w/e where there was an active live performance community in NZ?

Riddley Walker

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:46:42 +1200

a few people who were angry that these musicians had been able to live off their art, and felt that they should actually be doing a "proper job"

yeah it's only a proper job when you're turning out untold pieces of consumer shite to make rich people richer

Stephen Judd

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:40:18 +1200

Is this where I can air a pet theory of mine? The benefit cuts and the student loan scheme were a 1-2 punch for New Zealand music from which it has a taken a long time to recover, as both the producers and the consumers of live performance were forced…

merc

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:12:35 +1200

Knocking artists of any shape in our dear wee land is a time honoured tradition, McCahon and Baxter spring to mind from the past and the present; only the other day the DJ Course in Wellington got the rip.
Labour may be held to account for alot of things, but…

Robyn Gallagher

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:50:05 +1200

Although the morons who sniped at Bic Runga need to get a life ...

There seemed to be more than a few people who were angry that these musicians had been able to live off their art, and felt that they should actually be doing a "proper job".

As if…

Ben Austin

Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:38:21 +1200

So the next question is – do the politicians know that everyone outside of the publishing industry hates the amendments? Is there anyway of submitting this as evidence, or do we need to go old fashioned and get a poll made?

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Apr 2007 19:18:38 +1200

well said bro.
Have you noticed how right on the comments in the Herald views have been? The public's not as silly as some people think.....

Actually, I'm really quite struck by the liveliness and quality of the discussion here andthere. People think about this stuff, clearly.

Although the morons…

natasha griffiths

Tue, 03 Apr 2007 19:11:44 +1200

well said bro.
Have you noticed how right on the comments in the Herald views have been? The public's not as silly as some people think.....

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:34:20 +1200

So that's how we spell those words here? I wondered what the protocol was.

Not really. I personally use both versions ...

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:33:03 +1200

FWIW- there's a link from the Herald now- at the bottom of the page "Read Russell Brown's full critique at Public Address". Not that buying a drink or three isn't in order.

Heh.

Rob Stowell

Tue, 03 Apr 2007 17:10:09 +1200

FWIW- there's a link from the Herald now- at the bottom of the page "Read Russell Brown's full critique at Public Address". Not that buying a drink or three isn't in order.

Nobody Important

Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:52:23 +1200

no fscking link!?

So that's how we spell those words here? I wondered what the protocol was. On a lighter/more serious note (take your pick) ... as a kid I remember taping "Money Money Money" by ABBA off 1251ZM (me so old) on a Wednesday night at about 9pm if…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:22:20 +1200

Of possible interest:
Music downloading discussion heats up (NZ Herald)
http://tinyurl.com/28zq2s
"Media commentator Russell Brown has hit out against RIANZ chief executive Campbell Smith and his assertion that digital downloading is killing the local music industry..."

Hmmm ... I could do without the "hit out" part, which sounds like I…

Ben Austin

Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:16:50 +1200

So yet another forums can now confirm that no one likes the record industry or their stand on copyright?

Geez, I'm really glad I don't work in that industry, it must be a real downer when people ask where you work out of politeness (having worked in a mildly unpopular…

Bevan Shortridge

Tue, 03 Apr 2007 15:57:04 +1200

Of possible interest:

Music downloading discussion heats up (NZ Herald)

http://tinyurl.com/28zq2s

"Media commentator Russell Brown has hit out against RIANZ chief executive Campbell Smith and his assertion that digital downloading is killing the local music industry..."

Clarke

Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:12:35 +1200

Ars Technica is covering the no-DRM-from-EMI on iTunes story – all the tracks are DRM free, encoded as 256KB AACs .... it almost inspires me to spend some money with the iTunes store.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070402-emi-to-announced-drm-free-plans-tomorrow-reports.html

Sales start in May, and prices go from US 99 cents -> $1.29.

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 23:16:24 +1200

But previous results are no guarantee of future performance. Nesian Mystik's sophomore album captured few hearts the way their first one did.

And to be fair, I didn't particularly like Anika Moa's second album Stolen Hill, but you've got to have some respect for any musician who doesn't just clone…

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 23:06:54 +1200

Is the Campbell Smith who told a select committee last week that illicit downloading was killing his artists' careers and forcing them into day jobs ...

OK, was I the only person who thought there were probably a lot of writers and actors out there who had to change their…

Paul Campbell

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:58:54 +1200

err I mean "MySky"

Paul Campbell

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:56:06 +1200

you know I didn't explain that well did I – the most important point – MythTV lets you turn your old PC into a PVR – a super digital VCR like "SkyTV"

Yamis

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:56:04 +1200

Don't know if this has already been mentioned but has /will anybody asked Campbell Smith if he has ever dubbed a tape, burnt a cd or downloaded music from the internet without paying via kazaa, edonkey or whoever?

And if so will he be going back and checking out who…

Paul Campbell

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:54:05 +1200

one of the great things about TVNZ's digital plans are that they will be open, unencrypted, broadcast using standard protocols – that means that anyone will be able to take that old PC that just wont hack it for Vista, pop down to Dave Smith (I swear that guy hasn't…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:03:35 +1200

Of course what is a PVR? it's something that rips streams based on meta-data ....

Heh. And there's no Public Address reader who'd know better than you, Paul.

In Sky's (or the new TVNZ digital broadcasts) case the meta-data is embedded in the same digital stream as the video (or…

Paul Campbell

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:47:23 +1200

Of course what is a PVR? it's something that rips streams based on meta-data ....

In Sky's (or the new TVNZ digital broadcasts) case the meta-data is embedded in the same digital stream as the video (or sometimes for longer-term data on the stream next door), for Tivo the meta-data…

Simon Grigg

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:39:05 +1200

Hah. Just did a 30-seconds notice chat with Graeme Hill on Radio Live about the Beatles' online deal. Had to tell him in real time that the latest crop of news stories were saying no Beatles deal, but instead the MP3 thing ...

oh boy, do I really want those…

Simon Grigg

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:36:55 +1200

No, its an April 1 thingy (Bob Lefsatz has a Led Zep reunion thing up on his site as a April Fools joke too..he thinks he is a funny man) but it was clearly meant to have a slightly political bite.

But the mindset is very slowly changing (as Apple…

Damian Christie

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:36:09 +1200

Jon L:

With a taste in music history – tell me Einsteins – where do I go to buy a copy of Thomas Edison reciting "Mary had a little Lamb", pre 1914 – hell – pre 1900 recordings of all sorts...

You don't need to, Einstein. They're out of copyright...

3410

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:34:58 +1200

With a taste in music history – tell me Einsteins – where do I go to buy a copy of Thomas Edison reciting "Mary had a little Lamb", pre 1914 – hell – pre 1900 recordings of all sorts, obscure comedy tracks we used to have on 78's, long broken.

…

Stephen Judd

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:27:31 +1200

You need Electric Koha attached to the files ...

Just two letters away.

peter mclennan

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:12:36 +1200

nothing on Google News about Jimmy Iovine and Limewire....

Jon L

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:01:56 +1200

I've been a downloader for years......it's massively widened my musical base, I've bought CD's of bands I'd never heard of before (where possible) and – I hardly ever download modern popular music, because it doesn't appeal to me. I downloaded FFD's last CD, because it's not available in rural W.A…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:01:54 +1200

It wasn't music, but I watched Idiocracy over the weekend thanks to a friend of a friend of a friend who downloaded and then burnt it, and I was so glad to have seen it I wanted to send Mike Judge some money to say thank you.
Though I probably…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 17:00:36 +1200

Hah. Just did a 30-seconds notice chat with Graeme Hill on Radio Live about the Beatles' online deal. Had to tell him in real time that the latest crop of news stories were saying no Beatles deal, but instead the MP3 thing ...

william boot

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:51:35 +1200

It wasn't music, but I watched Idiocracy over the weekend thanks to a friend of a friend of a friend who downloaded and then burnt it, and I was so glad to have seen it I wanted to send Mike Judge some money to say thank you.

Though I probably…

Hamboy

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:34:14 +1200

How many of those that do illegal downloads or share with their friends, would have purchased the music if the 'free' copies were unavailable?
I know you are getting something illegally, but this thing about taking money out of the pockets of struggling artists, when they weren't going to get…

Simon Grigg

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:27:49 +1200

Thats what I wondered of course, thus I posted without comment. The parts about various unsigned acts are very odd......

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:20:24 +1200

The future has finally arrived. And contrary to all the spin, it was not brought to you by Steve Jobs, but someone from the music business, who understands relationships, who understands musicians, who understands the audience. Mark April 1st down on your calendar as the day the music business was…

Glen Wright

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:16:31 +1200

Apparently, EMI is about to release non-DRM music through iTunes. Another point for the Jobs' reality distortion field.

peter mclennan

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:07:43 +1200

isn't this debate a great lead-in to NZ Music Month in May? Bet NZOA is loving that one....
EDIT

peter mclennan

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:07:18 +1200

isn't this debate a great lead-in to NZ Msusc Month in May? Bet NZOA is loving that one....

Jason Kemp

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:02:09 +1200

Famous for being in the right place at the right time, as of June 1st, Jimmy Iovine will no longer be employed by Universal Music. He is ankling the firm to return to New York City to run LimeWire, the P2P service based on the Gnutella protocol.......someone from the music…

Grant McDougall

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 15:59:20 +1200

Good post, Russell.

I'm with Eddie Raynor on this: non ones admitting it, but everyone's doing it.

I think the music biz-types are hypocritical about this: for years I've known musicians, music writers, djs, plain ol' music fans and every single one has taped (as it was then), burnt or…

Simon Grigg

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:48:43 +1200

From the WSJ..also not online yet:

EMI to Sell Much of its Music Without Antipiracy Software
In a major reversal of the music industry's longstanding antipiracy strategy, EMI Group PLC is set to announce Monday that it plans to sell significant amounts of its catalog without anticopying software, according to…

djb

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:43:58 +1200

Great post Russell! Good to see some common sense forwarded in this debate. One of the things that irritates me the most about the media industry in this discussion is how intent they are in misrepresenting the basis of intellectual property rights and intimidating the customers who are the source…

3410

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:34:35 +1200

They surely can’t imagine guys like me will continue to repurchase in a third format can they?

Dude, what with "bonus track editions", "special tour editions", "xxth Anniversary Remastered editions" and the like, they gleefully get people to repurchase second and third times on the same format, whilst at the…

Simon Grigg

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:31:59 +1200

They surely can’t imagine guys like me will continue to repurchase in a third format can they ?

if the Jobs / EMI press conference in London tomorrow is about what everyone thinks it is is about..then yes

Simon Grigg

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:27:46 +1200

This is not online yet but is rather relevant (and I apologise for breaking any fair use provisos, but its a freely provided email):

Famous for being in the right place at the right time, as of June 1st, Jimmy Iovine will no longer be employed by Universal Music. He…

81stcolumn

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:16:41 +1200

Am I really that naïve ?

I have back purchased most of my LP collection and just about all of the pirated stuff from a few years back when I had loans to pay.

My purchase rate has gone down largely because I have recovered all my back catalogue and…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:05:11 +1200

One more "equally disgraceful": those Bic-bashing dickheads on "Your Views". I'm no huge fan, but what kind of person is mean and nasty to Bic Runga?

The Herald managed it once, when it went ballistic over a comment she'd made in a newspaper interview (in Ireland) about residual racism in…

Clarke

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:57:36 +1200

The big fly in the RIANZ ointment is that the academic studies on file sharing simply don't support their contention that it hurts musicians – the study from The Journal of Political Economy noted that "the effect of P2P on legitimate music sales is not statistically distinguishable from zero".

An…

merc

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:46:37 +1200

Envy is ugly. I met Bic once and for a brief moment I was transported to this other better world and I will admit to having really bad thoughts toward her male companion (sorry about the stink eye fella). Bic knew my stuff, and I am about the most obscure…

3410

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:34:48 +1200

I would have thought that $35,000 worth of lawyering would have procured a little more accuracy.

Well, it probably would have if that was the goal, but clearly it isn't. The fact that RIANZ would make such propagandist submissions to a Parliamentary committee is disgraceful. Equally disgraceful is that most,…

Kyle Matthews

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:28:56 +1200

Say for example that I like singing Metallica to my kids when I put them to bed at night. Or that my wife enjoys my rendition of Walk this Way by Aerosmith and Run DMC when I'm in the shower (Word Up – My rapping is dope).

Man, you deserve…

Simon Grigg

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:25:19 +1200

There's always been this "support NZ music!" attitude, but that only goes so far.

And that I completely agree with. I've always been of two minds about our (voluntary) quota. I'm supportive, in that radio in NZ would not play any New Zealand music if they did not have to,…

zkarj

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:56:16 +1200

This is nonsense. I'm not aware of a single New Zealand podcast made available on a paid basis, and few that are produced in New Zealand contain musical elements – because RIANZ almost always denies permission.

As a citizen of New Zealand and a producer of a podcast for the…

Robyn Gallagher

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:31:15 +1200

We don't feel too good about stealing NZ music so we're more likely to buy it.

There's always been this "support NZ music!" attitude, but that only goes so far.

If a local band is rubbish, they shouldn't expect an audience just because they're local. Likewise, a good band shouldn't…

Don Christie

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:19:37 +1200

Do you think the Freddy's relative immunity to file sharing might have less to do with a connection through their live shows, and more to do with the fact that even with broadband and a 128kbps sample rate, it's a lot slower/harder to share a 20-minute dubbed-out jam than 3…

Peter Darlington

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:01:18 +1200

One of the guys off Fat Freddys was interviewed on Kim Hill a few weeks ago and gave the theory that patriotism does indeed play a part with NZ listeners. We don't feel too good about stealing NZ music so we're more likely to buy it.

He stated that this…

Hamboy

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:00:34 +1200

Gee, thanks Danyl, now I have Life in a Northern Town stuck in my brain. lol

Robyn Gallagher

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:59:13 +1200

Robyn: I don't think everyone fits into one of your three categories, nosiree, not by a long shot. I think there are an absolute shitload of people -in fact I'd say a majority- who illegally download music they want, because they'd rather have it for free than pay for it.…

Peter Darlington

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:58:10 +1200

There was an American guy on Kim Hil a few weeks ago who's idea was to make all music, books, software, movies etc... free of charge and for governments to give us a tax break (say $1000) that could only be used for supporting artistic endeavours. That way we could…

Danyl Mclauchlan

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:47:13 +1200

I reckon people illegally download music they're curious about

It's also a good way to scratch a musical itch. If you've got 'Life in a Northern Town' stuck in your brain then I don't see anything wrong with downloading it since I'm highly unlikely to shell out $30 for a…

TroyHoward

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:41:06 +1200

Just had a thought? What stand does APRA have in regard to dvds and the like?

Does Bond and Bond have to pay for screening Monsters Inc over and over and over again to demo a plasma telly?

Damian Christie

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:40:14 +1200

Robyn: I don't think everyone fits into one of your three categories, nosiree, not by a long shot. I think there are an absolute shitload of people -in fact I'd say a majority- who illegally download music they want, because they'd rather have it for free than pay for it.…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:39:48 +1200

I have no issue paying for music, I don't buy that many CDs and haven't downloaded a song in ages. But if they make it too hard and are such an ass about what device I play music on, then I feel less guilty about illegal downloads.

Your post demonstrates…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:38:28 +1200

And here's something else to consider – how much revenue is being lost because with iTunes people are now able to buy any album track for a mere $1.79, rather than shelling out $35 for the whole album?

They've belatedly just moved to address that. I've baulked at buying an…

TroyHoward

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:37:36 +1200

So is APRA a worldwide outfit? Would streaming in web radio from Poland get around them? How do they police it? What if you don't pay?

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:26:49 +1200

You can buy CDs of music which have a public performance license included (The performers have signed their rights away, and either it's out of copyright classical etc, or it was composed for the purpose). It's called lift music or muzak. See http://www.royaltyfreemusic.com/ for instrance.

If you wish to anaethetise…

Robyn Gallagher

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:25:44 +1200

If there was some sort of technologicay breakthrough and it were somehow made absolutely impossibly to illegally download music, would people start buying more CDs and/or legal downloads?

I don't think so.

I reckon people illegally download music they're curious about ("Hmm... I hear the new Bloc Party CD is…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:24:16 +1200

Yeah, fair enough I guess....but the radio as well? Isn't that 'paid for' already?

APRA and PPL derive their respective rights income by means of an agreed percentage of commercial radio stations' income, depending on the amount of music used in schedules (with a separate deal for Radio NZ). It's…

Hamboy

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:22:01 +1200

The first time I used P2P to illegally download a song, was because a CD (I owned) had copy protection. I just wanted to rip it to my mp3 player.
Then I found digirama and payed for some of my favourite nz songs. I am one of those that only…

TroyHoward

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:18:20 +1200

Yeah, fair enough I guess....but the radio as well? Isn't that 'paid for' already?

Damian Christie

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:11:25 +1200

It's not extortion. It's a reasonable exercise of performance rights granted under the law.

Exactly, no-one's forcing you to play someone else's music in your shop.

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:10:09 +1200

APRA did very well out of that little bit of extortion. To the tune of $75 per business per year. Oh and plus GST.

It's not extortion. It's a reasonable exercise of performance rights granted under the law.

TroyHoward

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:07:19 +1200

Whangarei, circa 2001. APRA 'employees' send out letters enmass to businesses.

Short version = "You play compact disc or radio for customers. You pay money for privilege. "

Letters not answered are followed up by said APRA employees with a "Professional and Courteous" visit to business premises to collect cheque.…

Damian Christie

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:06:39 +1200

Troy – no, that's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying – the music industry has already worked out how to ensure artists get their slice of covers bands, and has been doing so for years.

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:05:20 +1200

Actually Troy, I think you'll find that cover bands playing in licensed venues are theoretically required to submit their songlists or something (so are DJs, which is even more ludicrous in a dance music environment, with white labels and so forth), and then because the establishment owner pays fees to…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:01:20 +1200

Come on people – I can't believe that anyone didn't pick up on this line by Russell vis a via the Section 59 bruhaha...

Way ahead of you. I acknowledged my discomfort with symbolic or hard-to-enforce laws the first time I posted about the Bradford bill. But it met my…

Ben Austin

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:57:39 +1200

Marcus, I for one refrained from pointing it out because I didn't want that particular debate colonising this discussion thread. Russell is one of the few people working hard to keep the copyright discussion in the news and I appreciate that.

Oh, and yes I have paid the princly sum…

TroyHoward

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:57:29 +1200

So the end of cover bands is nigh?

Damian Christie

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:57:08 +1200

Actually Troy, I think you'll find that cover bands playing in licensed venues are theoretically required to submit their songlists or something (so are DJs, which is even more ludicrous in a dance music environment, with white labels and so forth), and then because the establishment owner pays fees to…

James Green

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:54:11 +1200

The thing I particularly like about the bizarre time-shifting thing where the alternative is available, is that it assumes that people all have access to broadband...
I'd really like to try downloading a TV episode on dial-up.

Marcus Neiman

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:54:03 +1200

"In sum, this all proposes an unenforceable law that no one will pay the blindest bit of attention to..."

Come on people – I can't believe that anyone didn't pick up on this line by Russell vis a via the Section 59 bruhaha...

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:51:55 +1200

Say for example that I like singing Metallica to my kids when I put them to bed at night. Or that my wife enjoys my rendition of Walk this Way by Aerosmith and Run DMC when I'm in the shower (Word Up – My rapping is dope).

Actually, precisely these…

TroyHoward

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:45:27 +1200

Based on these submissions, the logical next step for the RIANZ to take is to insist that a consumer is not allowed to remember the actual content of any music at all. Forget time limited DRM media on your "devices" – your brain has to be next.

Say for example…

Evan Yates

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:44:35 +1200

The net effect of the whole rights management, down-loading, "ripping is stealing" debate on music consumers like me (interested but not obsessed) is that I have stopped buying music altogether. Has the RIAA measured that effect on their drop in sales? I'm not downloading illegal music. I'm not buying original…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:31:42 +1200

But then those damn pirates come and force you to share their files?

Last time involved a song that I wanted now, that wasn't on iTunes NZ, but was on iTunes UK. I thought that was pretty dumb in the 21st century. So I availed myself of it.

What I…

Damian Christie

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:30:09 +1200

Do you think the Freddy's relative immunity to file sharing might have less to do with a connection through their live shows, and more to do with the fact that even with broadband and a 128kbps sample rate, it's a lot slower/harder to share a 20-minute dubbed-out jam than 3…

Grant Stone

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:29:45 +1200

"I'm not aware of a single New Zealand podcast made available on a paid basis, and few that New Zealand contain musical elements – because RIANZ almost always denies permission."

Actually, are there *any* podcasts that are made available on a paid basis? When the Ricky Gervais show switched from…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:25:34 +1200

In this way, it's the bands and acts that put on a decent live show and generate an authentic following (as opposed to those with the biggest marketing to push their latest over-produced piece of puff-pop) that get the real rewards.

Actually, this principle works in another way, ie, when…

Damian Christie

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:22:31 +1200

Generally speaking, I don't approve of illicit copying and downloading of music: which isn't to say I've never done it, but I try not to...

But then those damn pirates come and force you to share their files?

The idea of automated content-identifying stream ripping sounds awfully complicated compared with…

Stephen Judd

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:19:26 +1200

noizyboy: I think that's exactly right. In the short term most musicians will be no worse off than they are now, and in the longer term, the more talented will benefit from the publicity of filesharing.

I would love to know how many musicians in New Zealand earn a living…

noizyboy

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:14:44 +1200

Seriously. In the 19th and early 20th centuries, musicians had regular gigs in dancehalls, theatre, opera, and so on. If you wanted to hear a good musician, you had to pay for a ticket. And it was a viable career.

I think that might increasingly be the focus of the…

noizyboy

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:06:50 +1200

People have *always* copied music.

Word.

And that whole stream-ripping business is just mental. If you're so enamoured with a song that you have to install some sort of software to scan metadata from streaming radio stations around the world, then you're probably after something so obscure that you'd probably…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:05:14 +1200

People have *always* copied music. When I was a kid I'd tape the John Peel show off the radio, tape friend's records, etc. Digital copying is no different – it just increases the scale of copying.

I was going to put this in the post, but I figured 200 words…

Ben Austin

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:02:48 +1200

Wow...

"or an automated process to identify and selectively record certain sound recordings from a communication work."

I shudder to think of the potential scope of such a clause.

Stephen Judd

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:00:14 +1200

You know what really killed the music business for musicians?

Records. And then radio.

Seriously. In the 19th and early 20th centuries, musicians had regular gigs in dancehalls, theatre, opera, and so on. If you wanted to hear a good musician, you had to pay for a ticket. And it…

David Slack

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:00:01 +1200

According to Bomber Bradbury, it's all KiwiFM's fault!

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 09:49:33 +1200

I don't believe it's the job of the NZ (or any other government) to help businesses to prop up an unsustainable business model.

Imagine I decided to set up a business renting bicycles. The bikes would be left at collection stations around town with an honesty box for people to…

Public Address

Mon, 02 Apr 2007 09:49:33 +1200

Discussion from blog post.