Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: The place where things happen strangely

BenWilson

Sun, 01 May 2016 11:21:01 +1200

Yeah, that's a great speech.

Russell Brown

Sun, 01 May 2016 11:10:44 +1200

I’m now claiming that this was the best thing to come out of last week’s UN drug summit:

It felt that way, didn't it? Just the fact that there had been quite a lot of bullshit and then this man stood up and spoke clearly, passionately and directly.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 01 May 2016 07:58:43 +1200

I’m now claiming that this was the best thing to come out of last week’s UN drug summit:

Really? If that is the best ,and don't get me wrong, what happened for him, I would hope for the other thousands in the same situation ,(because we do have thousands), and…

Sacha

Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:47:14 +1200

Hawaii selects eight medpot dispensary businesses, minus Woody Harrelson's bid. Latter gives Granny cover to file that news under 'entertainment'.

Ross Bell

Thu, 28 Apr 2016 08:24:45 +1200

I'm now claiming that this was the best thing to come out of last week's UN drug summit:
https://youtu.be/CFRLPyynnCc

david westcot

Tue, 26 Apr 2016 21:56:39 +1200

I totally agree with the case your`e making Ben .The point blank refusal to do a serious , honest & comprehensive cost benefit analysis of psychoactives is irrational ,dysfunctional & pathetic in an age of endless metrics & analyses about social,political,economic & whatever issues. WTF!!!! No cost/benefit analysis here folks – move along please.WTF…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 24 Apr 2016 15:50:43 +1200

They weren’t “his synthetics” though.

Ok, edit it to...

....Campbell live one night where Dunne went to see first hand the effect synthetics had had on people.

Russell Brown

Sun, 24 Apr 2016 03:40:17 +1200

Wouldn’t it be nice if Dunne heard that. I remember watching a Campbell live one night where Dunne went to see first hand the effect his synthetics had had on people.

They weren't "his synthetics" though. The period of attempted regulation was brief and he'd spent years banning one after…

Sacha

Sat, 23 Apr 2016 19:04:52 +1200

Brazilian photographer shows how his friends' faces change over 3 glasses of wine.

Steve Barnes

Sat, 23 Apr 2016 12:36:18 +1200

Looks like things are heading in the right direction...
,” UNODC Executive Director Yuri Fedotov said in a statement Tuesday. “It’s time to reverse the cycles of violence that occur wherever ‘drug wars’ are undertaken, and to abandon policies that exacerbate suffering.”
But Wait...
There's more...…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 16:59:24 +1200

I cried, and I’m still feeling quite emotional about it. In a week of bullshit, it felt very direct, and the applause from the gallery was sustained.

Wouldn't it be nice if Dunne heard that. I remember watching a Campbell live one night where Dunne went to see first hand…

Russell Brown

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 16:09:20 +1200

It's been a strange interesting week and a weird day (Prince!), and the ever-changing security access rules (which it was hard not to see as malicious) made a saga out of getting up to the Level 4 gallery high above the General Assembly. It's a combination of the customary freakout…

BenWilson

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 13:23:05 +1200

And “happiness” is more the Aristotelian sense of being excellent and contributing positively to your family and community than the more hedonistic sense we may often think of today.

Yes, hedonistic Utilitarianism is a highly specific form, which suffers from many obvious problems. The Swine Objection being one of the…

BenWilson

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 12:58:50 +1200

I heard it more in the sense of “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” which seem a better, more human set of goals than those of comparable declarations.

Well this is NZ, not the USA. We don’t have a constitution, and we also never had a revolution in which…

BenWilson

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 11:27:37 +1200

You stated that the reason for pursuing homosexual law reform was not about harm minimisation (e.g. getting arrested, having no legal redress, being assaulted etc) but about attaining happiness.

I'm sorry, but you misunderstood what I'm saying there. I'm saying that it was not the only cause. And the people…

nzlemming

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 10:05:47 +1200

I don’t get this cause-effect thing you’re raising here. Very often the cause of us doing something is the effect that it will produce. I go to the shop and buy something nice to eat.

Then you understand nothing, Jon Snow. Cause and effect are separate things when related to…

nzlemming

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 09:58:42 +1200

Hmmm ... but greater happiness was an outcome, and if you're measuring outcomes, you'd include it.

The discussion was about cause, not outcome.

Stephen R

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 08:28:45 +1200

Some of the criticism of "Harm minimisation" aligning it with prohibition seems to me to ignore one of the biggest harms around drugs – the risk of getting busted, and having to deal with the criminal side of society to access it.

The downsides of the "War on Drugs" are…

Matthew Hooton

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 07:42:39 +1200

“Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,”

It's more meaningful when "pursuit of happiness" is properly understood. "Pursuit" is meant in the "exercise" sense rather than "chasing" sense. And "happiness" is more the Aristotelian sense of being excellent and contributing positively to your family and community than the more hedonistic…

BenWilson

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 01:36:05 +1200

Happiness was only an effect, and not the most important one, which was legal status and freedom from discrimination (still a work in progress, as with so many other minorities).

I don’t get this cause-effect thing you’re raising here. Very often the cause of us doing something is the effect…

Russell Brown

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 01:30:21 +1200

Apology accepted, but it’s not about what people think now – it’s about what people thought then. That’s where the cause comes from. Happiness was only an effect, and not the most important one, which was legal status and freedom from discrimination (still a work in progress, as with so…

BenWilson

Fri, 22 Apr 2016 01:17:11 +1200

You, anyone can never know that, for sure.

Nor can you know it's not true. But let me ask you this: How do you personally make up your mind? Do you weigh only the negatives in all things you do?

Going for the ‘well a lot of people think like…

nzlemming

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 22:27:37 +1200

Even if it's not how you think, it's how I think, and I suggest that it's how a whole lot of people think.

Apology accepted, but it's not about what people think now – it's about what people thought then. That's where the cause comes from. Happiness was only an…

andin

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 20:38:29 +1200

I suggest that it’s how a whole lot of people think.

You, anyone can never know that, for sure. Unless you have the paper work on hand? But surveys are often a blunt instrument, too often.
Introspection should never be about what others are thinking tho, examining oneself, when drunk…

BenWilson

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 15:39:47 +1200

I'm extremely sorry that I've offended you, nzlemming. I certainly had no intention of that. I absolutely was not telling you what your own personal motivations for fighting for rights were. My claim was intended to be about the vast bulk of people who made the right choice, and how…

Hilary Stace

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 15:38:28 +1200

Helen Kelly, on Facebook, was pretty angry that Peter Dunne's reported words, in her experience, do not reflect his actions.

nzlemming

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 13:52:53 +1200

I was going to leave this, but you've made me very angry. Your paternalistic "straight boy knows best" attitude is insulting to my life experience and to the memory of those who never made it. I should accept your pronouncement because you're straight? Fuck off. That's the very bullshit we…

BenWilson

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 12:32:25 +1200

There will inevitably be more purchase in arguments about the right not to have your ability to work and travel impaired than in the right to get high because you like it, but it’s a spectrum.

I don't think that's inevitable. I think it's a consequence of one approach that…

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 12:00:37 +1200

It’s an article of faith in New Zealand that we have the best weed. I’d say it’s more likely we’re yokels these days, taking what we get.

Depending on where you live might prove better strains than inner city. Some of the “yokels” around here are experts in their chosen…

Russell Brown

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 11:18:38 +1200

Anyway, good afternoon of Media Take interviews today.

The Jamaican solicitor-general Kathy-Ann Brown – who is amazing – couldn't join us at the last moment, but they sent over one of their people with a couple of people from the Jamaican NGOs they're supporting, including a rasta called Ras Iya…

Russell Brown

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 10:24:40 +1200

The Homosexual Law Reform Act never came about through harm reduction arguments. It came through the argument of it being a fundamental human right.

Humans rights arguments have been quite strongly advanced at UNGASS, if generally in condemnation of the most serious human rights deprivations – like being killed by…

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 09:59:48 +1200

The Homosexual Law Reform Act never came about through harm reduction arguments. It came through the argument of it being a fundamental human right

It was more that those in power came to the conclusion that gay people were no longer an Other that they could use to scare the…

BenWilson

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 02:03:48 +1200

Harm reduction is about objective measurables, not subjective perceptions.

Subjective perceptions are measurable. You ask people, collect data on the answers.

I agree that there were significant harm reductions as a result of the law change. What I don't agree about is that the law changed because of these. It…

nzlemming

Thu, 21 Apr 2016 00:53:06 +1200

If anything, harm reduction stood in its way at the time, all the people who could claim they could see some kind of harm coming from it, stacked up against a minority of people whose happiness would be improved enormously.

Harm reduction is about objective measurables, not subjective perceptions. You…

BenWilson

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 22:57:45 +1200

You forget that we tried to prohibit alcohol and it was a complete failure and we aren’t going to do that again.

No, I remember that we did prohibit alcohol, precisely to reduce its harm to society.

Kind of like we had to have the Homosexual Law Reform Act and…

BenWilson

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 22:28:40 +1200

what about other framing like improved self-knowledge, and joy, even? not all about narrow libertarian isms.

I seldom hear those in serious discussions about drug policy. My entire point is that I should be hearing them. They should count for a lot.

Sacha

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 22:03:55 +1200

the right to take psychoactives has only the one good that anyone ever counts, that it could be right, a liberty.

what about other framing like improved self-knowledge, and joy, even? not all about narrow libertarian isms.

Sacha

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 21:59:41 +1200

These idiots who think the sky is going to fall in if we liberalise

will die, eventually

Mikaere Curtis

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 21:32:04 +1200

If reducing alcohol related harm is your argument to legalize MDMA, it will never be legalized. All you manage to do with that is to build a very strong argument for prohibition of alcohol.
You forget that we tried to prohibit alcohol and it was a complete failure and we…

Lilith __

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 20:56:45 +1200

We have NZ delegation members Tuari Potiki (who speaks on Thursday) and Papa Nahi, as well as Mexican journalist Lisa Marie Sanchez and Sanho Tree. We're hoping for Nick Clegg and Helen Clark. I really hope we get Clark – the UNDP contribution seems hugely influential here – it has…

BenWilson

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 20:43:13 +1200

I'm well aware, by the way, that you could do what I'm saying under a harm minimization regime. You account for loss of freedom and rights as a harm. You measure it. If this was the way that it was being used, I'd have no issue with it – it…

BenWilson

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 19:57:48 +1200

Under a harm reduction model you would see MDMA being legalised as it would lead to a massive reduction in harm associated with alcohol (and probably a rise in MDMA-related harm – but an overall massive reduction in harm).

See, therein lies my problem. If reducing alcohol related harm is…

BenWilson

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 19:53:13 +1200

But is there any good way to measure how much more people enjoy music or sex, or just feel happier, when they take drugs?

I think there is. You ask them. Or, if you want to build it all into harm, you ask them how harmed they feel from having…

Alfie

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 18:43:24 +1200

A brief aside.

Otamatea Grey Power in Northland have voted unanimously to write to Parliament lobbying for cannabis to be legalised.

With age comes wisdom. ;-)

James Dunne

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 17:11:53 +1200

Well, the assumption with medicines is that the benefit outweighs the risk. That's why chemotherapy drugs are approved for use even though they're very poisonous and very bad for you: because dying of cancer is even worse. Nobody would approve a drug with chemotherapy-like side effects that just treated a…

andin

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 17:09:42 +1200

Maybe only individuals can conceive those goods because those goods are individual.
Interesting point, and seeing as we're generalizing(cause thats what ya do at conferences, unless someones got something earthshattering to say on a subject).
All people and animals, yes, will experience something a high?
But seeing as we're talking…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 16:50:19 +1200

Wouldn't a label with: "for culinary use only, not to be smoked" solve the problem?

Really, if you take a maximal view of a government's duty to prevent its subjects harming themselves, then it becomes hard to move on from prohibition. It's only if one can make a step to…

James Dunne

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 16:14:20 +1200

Of course, if one was to remove cannabis from the Misuse of Drugs Act and approve recreational cannabis-based products through the, ahem, Psychoactive Substances Act, it seems likely that it would be hard to demonstrate that a product where you inhaled smoke would pose no greater than a low risk…

Russell Brown

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 15:10:17 +1200

Otago Uni having a brag about the other New Zealand speaker, Tuari Potiki.

http://www.otago.ac.nz/otagobulletin/news/otago609502.html

He's a great guy, real sense of presence and composure about him.

Russell Brown

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 15:04:51 +1200

A more direct consequence of a harm-reduction approach would be the struggle to get raw cannabis legalised and regulated – it would run counter to NZ public health strategies to be green-lighting smoking. Perhaps cannabis would be more likely to get the nod as cannabis products. Or do you run…

Sacha

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 14:58:53 +1200

the pillar of boldness

more of Glucina's thrusting poplars :)

Mikaere Curtis

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 14:20:58 +1200

Ben, I'm not sure what you are getting at. Harm reduction is a reasonable model if you consider harm can come from sources other than the directly from the substance being consumed (e.g. actions of others such as drunk people or your drug dealer's gang connections).

Under a harm reduction…

BenWilson

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 13:42:11 +1200

I wish I could admire Dunne’s own personal pillar of boldness in so far as what he’s achieved in drug reform in the very, very long time he’s been the person responsible for it in this country.

Ultimately I think it always comes down to seeing the reduction of harm…

Kevin McCready

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 13:35:45 +1200

Will you be able to catch up with reporter Matthew Russell Lee booted from UN? https://www.change.org/p/unsg-ban-ki-moon-dsg-jan-eliasson-cdc-edmond-mulet-and-usg-dpi-gallach-we-demand-inner-city-press-be-restored-to-access-to-the-un-as-a-resident-correspondent

Mike O'Connell

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 13:01:38 +1200

This is a brilliant running commentary, keep it coming Russell. I do hope Peter Dunne will unfold those same points in his speech about responsible regulation to his cabinet colleagues, Police Association etc when returns.

Russell Brown

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 11:20:15 +1200

Tomorrow is a big day – the NZ Permanent Mission has kindly given us the use of its boardroom and I'm going to interview as many people for Media Take as I can.

We have NZ delegation members Tuari Potiki (who speaks on Thursday) and Papa Nahi, as well as…

Russell Brown

Wed, 20 Apr 2016 11:02:30 +1200

Back enjoying a Brooklyn 1/2 Ale and some chips in my hotel room. (These stainless steel rubbish bins hold a whole bag of ice perfectly!)

I couldn’t get into the viewing area above the General Assembly for the opening this morning, but it turned out to be better watching it…

andin

Tue, 19 Apr 2016 23:01:26 +1200

Obama

when he rolls up
Sorry couldnt resist ;))

Shane Le Brun

Tue, 19 Apr 2016 22:21:13 +1200

watching with anticipation.

Te Radar

Tue, 19 Apr 2016 21:20:20 +1200

Well, that was informatively depressing.

Lilith __

Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:50:47 +1200

How fascinating. Please tell us more as it happens.

Public Address

Tue, 19 Apr 2016 20:50:47 +1200

Discussion from blog post.