Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: The perils of political confidence

Alex Coleman

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 11:37:53 +1300

No, it's a trick. The 10% figure that Key claims is "after tax"; in other words, most of that is counting cuts in PAYE rates, but not counting GST increase.

Is he still counting the pre election tax cut from Labour in that? He was for a while.

linger

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 10:09:34 +1300

Doubtless :-)
It is perhaps part of the job description that a politician will sometimes be a liar and/or a bullshitter. (To be honest, I don't think that's an overly cynical position.)
But if we accept that, then the only thing we have left by which to distinguish the various…

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:56:29 +1300

Well, that will teach me to extend anyone the benefit of the doubt ever again... It's going to be a looooong haul to midnight on Friday isn't it?

DexterX

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:42:55 +1300

Hands up all those Labour party voters who plan to employ more people sometime in the next three years?

hamishm

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:39:25 +1300

Personally, I think it would be fair to call Key a stone cold liar.

Yeah, I really dunno if he believes what he says or he's just done it by rote learning.

It _has_ been interesting tho'. And the recent surge in NZ First has muddied the pitch more than…

Hebe

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:28:15 +1300

I wonder what big bucket of effluent the Nats will come out with tomorrow or Thursday? Just saying that's an obvious next move. They are looking increasingly like they know the govern-alone prize has slipped away in the last week and the long-haul strategy for the second term seemed to…

linger

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 09:22:03 +1300

it would be fair to call Key a stone cold liarexcept it is difficult to remain stone cold while spinning so fast.
The only way Craig's point here might apply to Key is if we are trying to distinguish between a liar (someone who knows the truth, and deliberately distorts…

merc

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:57:36 +1300

I don't think it would be fair to call Goff and Key stone cold liars,
Please don't suggest that.

3410

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:53:11 +1300

I don't think it would be fair to call Goff and Key stone cold liars

Personally, I think it would be fair to call Key a stone cold liar.

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:44:59 +1300

-How does John know we will make between 7 -9 billion from assert sales? (2 billion is also a hell of a variation).

You want the truth? He doesn't, any more than Goff's touching faith in Treasury projections is well-founded. I don't think it would be fair to call Goff…

merc

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:07:32 +1300

And no mention of inflation?

3410

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:01:48 +1300

-Have wages gone up 10% under John?

No, it's a trick. The 10% figure that Key claims is "after tax"; in other words, most of that is counting cuts in PAYE rates, but not counting GST increase. Actual increase significantly less than 10%.

merc

Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:38:45 +1300

Both leaders were standing last night ;-) both made contrary statements, I'd like to know the truth.
-Have jobs increased or decreased under Key's Govt?
-Did National inherit a deficit with 3 quarters in recession in 2008?
-Have wages gone up 10% under John?
-Were the tax cuts fiscally neutral…

DexterX

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:46:02 +1300

History is written by the last one standing ;-)

The past is a different country/world.

Hebe

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:33:22 +1300

History is written by the last one standing ;-)

Make that "last wiki standing"

merc

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:30:37 +1300

History is written by the last one standing ;-)

Hebe

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:27:41 +1300

Collapse of Act and possibly Peter Dunne will be the deciders. More Greens are voting now they have reached the reproducing and mortgage years; it's a demographic change of voting patterns not a policy-driven change, though Russell Norman has turned around the red-green hue to a more fashionable lime.

DexterX

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:11:28 +1300

Labour has a plan. It’s publically out there- and I think it will work.

I watched the leaders debate tonight on TV3 and considered Goff largely avoided "the Plan' which is not perhaps seen as a winner.

I felt both John Goff and Phill Key had the stuff of which…

hamishm

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:48:57 +1300

My god, Mozza and Bill Shankly, who would explode first?

merc

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:04:16 +1300

I can’t say frankly without thinking of the Smiths, or John Clarke who would as Fred Dagg say…to be perfectly Francis with you.
Most preface or exit statements I find on my part are onerous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ownZDWNIRs

Sacha

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:58:36 +1300

It’s like frankly or absolutely

I tend to use 'frankly' where I probably should be using "with respect" :)

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:53:58 +1300

That leaves 26 seats to decide the government and, according to Horizon, Winston Peters’ New Zealand First is on track to take up to 13 of them.

And when NZ First's party secretary is one of the people behind Grey Power's vile spew on "Asian" immigrants, I really hope some…

merc

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:52:35 +1300

Ssssh the levels of crazy will be upped to extreme if they even suspect that, oh wait ;-)
Keith Rankin is right about the undecided votes.

Russell Brown

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:21:33 +1300

Laughable, methinks the guy doth protest way too much,
“I just don’t accept the poll to be perfectly honest,” he said.

It’s actually quite interesting if the Horizon poll does turn out to have spotted the Peters trend before anyone else’s. David Farrar and others have been keen to point…

merc

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:08:55 +1300

Laughable, methinks the guy doth protest way too much,
“I just don’t accept the poll to be perfectly honest,” he said.
Rule 1. anyone who says to be perfectly honest never could be, can be or will be. It’s like frankly or absolutely, his writer will have to dig deep…

hamishm

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:51:10 +1300

A quick spin in the time machine has unearthed this example of the political genius we have in charge.

Sacha

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:38:20 +1300

I do think that managing information is commoditizing really fast

That's right. As I say, the leading focus has moved past that to higher value creativity – like film, fashion, software design and marketing (rather than processing or even coding), service personalisation, innovation. Yet many people's thinking hasn't.

When we…

BenWilson

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:57:59 +1300

It doesn't mean we stop growing food, processing it, unblocking drains or managing basic information. It does however mean there's more of a future in marketing, analysis, service/relationship and innovation activities than on the factory shop floor or the farm.

I don't think we should stop any economic activity at…

merc

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:38:37 +1300

would you like to borrow another $7 billion (thought you had?)
build no new infrastructure (you haven't planned to)
and pretend we’re going to be a growth economy, (shall we?)
the Air New Zealand model operating in a few more companies’ (my fav, I thought the Govt. bailed them out…

Steve Parks

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:31:01 +1300

From merc’s link:

John Key,
If you went to New Zealanders and said, ‘would you like to borrow another $7 billion in the world’s markets where debt is a major issue, and that’s what has dragged down Italy, and Greece, and Ireland, and Portugal and Spain, or would you like…

Sacha

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:16:05 +1300

Except that Labour are presenting things as "nothing much wrong, just need a few tweaks and a change of faces"

Their Capital Gains Tax and compulsory workplace savings proposals go well beyond that. It's National who are proposing more of the same.

Sacha

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:13:14 +1300

The knowledge economy is a flop.

On the contrary. We're in a major global transformation from industrial through information into creative/fashion focuses in value production, similar to the earlier shift from agriculture to industry.

It doesn't mean we stop growing food, processing it, unblocking drains or managing basic information. It…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:05:36 +1300

This is actually what’s happening to our middle classes, who were heavily encouraged to build up this economy, and tertiary education skyrocketed. But the dividends of it are mostly not reaped locally.

Once again, my 3 under-employed post-grad friends are testament to that. We have no trouble producing the know-how,…

Rich of Observationz

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:35:50 +1300

Absolutely.

Except that Labour are presenting things as "nothing much wrong, just need a few tweaks and a change of faces". There are some bits of a plan, but no acknowledgement that we have a bit of a problem.

Ok, so we don't see the issues that Europe does right…

BenWilson

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:04:33 +1300

So, given that neither party, nor any party in the First World, has an answer to global capitalist redistribution towards the Third World (and I'm not even entirely sure I think it's such a bad thing in a global sense), the question doesn't become "how can we outcompete the rest…

merc

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:03:48 +1300

These are not the asset sales you thought they were /Jedi pulpit style/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767604

BenWilson

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:02:45 +1300

It is not the blandness that worries me – my concern is that neither Labour nor National have a plan that even attempts to address the issues we are facing or about to face as a nation.

@Dexter (not Islander, soz K)

Actually they both have plans, and they're quite…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:31:24 +1300

Though his ongoing faith-based approach to evidence would make Alasdair Thompson proud.

If only one word could sum up the prevailing orthodoxy, ‘faith-based’ would most certainly be it. It was most certainly the case with Dubya and Howard.

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:48:56 +1300

Radio NZ has a story about Key warning voters off Winston First (1m27, listening options).

Which I wouldn’t argue with, really – and there’s also his lengthy track record of being a toxic, divisive douchebag. But in the end, if Winston First gets over 5% of the party vote that’s…

merc

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:27:15 +1300

I think he is a person who stands for nothing and so everything is fair game.

Sacha

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:12:54 +1300

Even a one-page summary of the applicable evidence would disagree with his statement – which shows either how much attention the man has paid, or how prepared he is to say whatever interest groups like employers want to hear.

merc

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:10:13 +1300

"The reason there is a pay gap is because of the nature of the jobs, as I understand it."
Understanding reason fail.

Sacha

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 07:04:49 +1300

Radio NZ has a story about Key warning voters off Winston First (1m27, listening options).

Sacha

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:57:51 +1300

Absolutely. Hence the noises from National about needing another election soon to unblock their divine right to govern without constraint. Given our system's lack of other checks and balances and the character of Joyce, McCully and others, that's a concern.

Paul Campbell

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:48:56 +1300

You know the result here could be a minority National government unable to proceed on asset sales because of the majority in parliament against them

Which strangely may be exactly what the public (at this particular moment in time) want

Sacha

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:47:58 +1300

And Key now making overtures about equal pay as a potential policy compromise with the Greens after dismissing it outright during the last 3 years.

Though his ongoing faith-based approach to evidence would make Alasdair Thompson proud.

"The reason there is a pay gap is because of the nature of the…

Sacha

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:39:27 +1300

Nats focus on attacking Winston, with Act looking like toast.

linger

Mon, 21 Nov 2011 01:47:59 +1300

neither Labour nor National have a planIf that’s how you really see it, then vote for one of the minor parties instead – but please do vote. The default result otherwise is a Parliament in which the major parties are not challenged either to produce a plan, or to adapt…

Islander

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:28:52 +1300

I suppose if you keep reiterating this stuff for your comfort, Dexter X, you must believe it,
Labour has a plan. It’s publically out there- and I think it will work.

Nats want their same old to continue – despite the failure of everything they said they’d do -which turned…

DexterX

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:12:05 +1300

It is not the blandness that worries me – my concern is that neither Labour nor National have a plan that even attempts to address the issues we are facing or about to face as a nation.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:01:01 +1300

And I am still positively hopeful that the re-election of Nats & that bland Mr Key, with his assassin’s eyes, wont happen.

Matt McCarten has a plan!

Islander

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:19:42 +1300

+1!
And I am still positively hopeful that the re-election of Nats & that bland Mr Key, with his assassin's eyes, wont happen.

Steve Barnes

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:47:15 +1300

I am afraid I have resigned myself to a further 3 yrs of a Government I neither voted for, nor have any confidence in.

The power of positive thinking is not strong in this one. :-(

Hilary Stace

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:23:08 +1300

I wouldn't be surprised if there was another election before 2014. Things are moving quickly in the world at the moment and the problems ahead pretty major.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:52:59 +1300

As for next week and the week after, and the week after that etc.etc.
More of the same for job losses
Big stick hits out again.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:59:38 +1300

celebrating Labour’s wins, whatever they may be. If the left and Winston can't hold the reigns this time we know they will come back to clean up the mess, like they always do. Because people are important and the left and Winston care. And before anyone baulks at Winston, he…

Jackie Clark

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 06:08:48 +1300

I am afraid I have resigned myself to a further 3 yrs of a Government I neither voted for, nor have any confidence in. In my very humble opinion, Labour took too long to get their shit together for this one. And that saddens me, greatly. That being said I…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:44:28 +1300

I'm not conceding anything. It is not my race. Although one thing I will concede, is that Brand Key is dangerous and we ain't seen nothing yet if this lot are allowed to continue.
My hopes and aspirations are the same as they always have been. I only want what's…

DexterX

Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:01:09 +1300

Good for you, you are conceding defeat – that will make it easier to adjust.

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:56:57 +1300

We have and are going to have a government of and one that benefits corporate players.

NO SHIT SHERLOCK!

Welcome to brandishing Key.

DexterX

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:44:57 +1300

If you want to see what the next three years are going to be like – have a look at the National Master Plan and then consider how it is going to affect you set against a background of an economy that is going to contract further:

http://www.national.org.nz/PDF_General/Economic_Development_Action_Plan.pdf

I am…

merc

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:56:59 +1300

I say again if they take computers away it will seriously undermine the media's ability to report this election, hell just having the cops in at your place of work is very distracting.

Rob Stowell

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:51:17 +1300

It's very standard. No doors will be getting kicked in.
Get your point about doors being kicked in. But search warrants for media outlets very standard? I bloody hope not!

Kyle Matthews

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:12:47 +1300

Farce is one thing: police raids on the media (RNZ!) quite another.

It won't be a raid. Most media organisations have a policy of not releasing their material to the police upon request. Means they can protect sources as much as possible.

Police will therefore execute a search warrant to…

Joe Wylie

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:09:56 +1300

I didn’t like Simon Upton, but I respected him…
I remember hearing an item on ABC radio at the time of the original MMP referendum, where Australian political pundits discussed events in NZ. One offered the opinion that MMP would probably get up, perhaps for no better reason than that…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:48:19 +1300

Rise of the Avenger...
I didn't think the US named things like
warships after living politicians.
It seems they forgot to consult you, *
or perhaps they know George HW Bush
is really one of the living dead...
;- )

*possibly it may be money they don't
have living politicians…

Sacha

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:30:28 +1300

Condie Rice had an oil tanker..

Rich Lock

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:14:43 +1300

Heyyy, you're on EPSM, Radio Epsom, where Fridays are all about the music.

We've had a request from a Hilary Calvert to play a special song for her ex-bestie Don. Says he'll know how much it means to them both, and something about revenge, cold dishes, schadenfreude and laughing last…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:52:48 +1300

I didn't think the US named things like warships after living politicians.

DexterX

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 22:41:28 +1300

20 year old failed policies, (and politicians – grandpa brashies) and the lack of any integrity, accountability, and reasonability, apparently inherent

in most aspets of life in NZ – the response to Rena, the Pike River revelations, the plight of children, leaky homes, leaky schools, death of snails, the list…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:11:05 +1300

The headless ship of state sails on...
You think we have problems with a recalcitrant Purser.
Spare a thought for the sailors aboard the Carrier George H W Bush
The (US) Navy’s newest aircraft carrier has a messy problem. Since deploying in May, the Norfolk, Va.-based carrier George H.W. Bush…

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:15:08 +1300

I can't help thinking that Duncan Garner might just be the happiest person in the country right now.
Yes Duncan has learnt the art of persistence ,I'll give him that but the interview in the domain is not Duncan. Credit where credits due. It was Patrick Gower who interviewed Banks,…

Paul Williams

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:14:05 +1300

Oddily, what I've heard is that Boscowan's regarded as a good operator by most in parliament. What is it with celebrity? Why not reward talent and application? I didn't like Simon Upton, but I respected him...

Sacha

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:48:11 +1300

Act really are shuffling those deckchairs

Paul Williams

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:40:14 +1300

Now Boscowan's back in the race, who can keep up with ACT? And how's this for a doozy quote from the Dr:

"I would certainly be disappointed not to be in there [Parliament]," he said. "But when you contest an election, sometimes you have to accept that you won't win."

I…

PaulC

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:10:28 +1300

Doesn’t this all really hit on the key issue of this election, with the hive off of the country on the line, 20 year old failed policies, (and politicians – grandpa brashies) and the lack of any integrity, accountability, and reasonability, apparently inherent in our pm

Russell Brown

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:03:10 +1300

I've knocked out a new post about the police demands of Radio NZ.

It's titled 'Criminalising Journalism', and no, I don't think that title is OTT. This has gone to a bad place.

Rob Stowell

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:01:56 +1300

Just in: police say they will execute a search warrant on Radio NZ today or tomorrow, in pursuit of “unpublished material”, subsequent to the interview with Bradley Ambrose.

I think this just got WAY out of hand.
+2.
Farce is one thing: police raids on the media (RNZ!) quite another.…

Mikaere Curtis

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:01:43 +1300

Loving the irony today. On the one hand, Key is happy to hide behind the law if it can prevent the transcript of the tea tapes from being made public, and on the other he is above the law if he thinks there are some potential votes in it.

Sacha

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:42:06 +1300

don't be a drama queen

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:29:36 +1300

OK, Sacha, I've been told repeatedly I'm totally out of order expressing any disquiet at the content of Morning Report today. Message received.

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:26:55 +1300

Leopold

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:23:35 +1300

We're getting into Police Chief Wiggum territory here
I thought Police could use their discretion...

Mikaere Curtis

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:14:14 +1300

Full policy listings here – with every single answer for National thus:

Declined to answer this question
The arrogance is breath-taking; only topped by National's whinging about the media not wanting to engage on policy.

I think this just got WAY out of hand.
Agreed, and I really hope the…

Russell Brown

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:03:29 +1300

Just in: police say they will execute a search warrant on Radio NZ today or tomorrow, in pursuit of “unpublished material”, subsequent to the interview with Bradley Ambrose.

I think this just got WAY out of hand.

Joe Wylie

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:00:35 +1300

you clearly haven't met him :)
Have you read his biographies of Brash and Banks?
I hear that the descriptions of cavalry charges against blood-crazed fuzzy-wuzzies and midnight escapes from Boer prisons are absolutely ripping.

Sacha

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:52:25 +1300

rebels

you clearly haven't met him :)

merc

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:49:08 +1300

So the Nat guy gets in in Epsom, grows in confidence, rebels against his two faced masters, leads National back to a glorious summer.../I laugh so hard/

Sacha

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:43:22 +1300

It would appear Epsom voters don't much like being manipulated either. Good on them.

Sacha

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:40:42 +1300

If teapotgate is a “distraction” from “real issues”

It's a measure of National's comms success that the campaign framing is around leadership credibility rather than substantive policy. Media aren't immune to that (though they should be).

The Nats can hardly complain now when media follow that framing to its conclusion,…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:35:44 +1300

National’s trade policy might be a technicolour yawn to you, Russell, but it might just be not only relevant but pretty important to one or two Morning Report listeners.

Just one or two, maybe but they wouldn't want anybody else to know about it, you know, commercial sensitivity an all…

merc

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:33:11 +1300

The tottering off shot a la Bill English after that coup.
Interestingly the people I know who support Key still believe it is a media beat up and Key is on track, ah well.

Steve Barnes

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:31:06 +1300

He burped up what is now clearly the agreed line: that he was only interested in talking about “issues that are important to New Zealanders”.

Which would be the environment food prices and the quality of our schools

Sacha

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:29:35 +1300

Radio New Zealand, whose policy Q&A was disgracefully snubbed by National

Full policy listings here – with every single answer for National thus:
Declined to answer this question

It's only the other parties who ought to have any complaint about lack of substantive coverage in the circumstances.

BenWilson

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:27:40 +1300

It was brutal — especially the tottering-off-into-the-distance shot at the end.

"Saruman, your staff is broken"

David Hood

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:24:06 +1300

As I was waiting for John Key
There was a man I didn't see
He didn't front again today
I think he might have run away

Emma Hart

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:23:28 +1300

It was brutal — especially the tottering-off-into-the-distance shot at the end.

I can't help thinking that Duncan Garner might just be the happiest person in the country right now.

Russell Brown

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:21:16 +1300

Man this is quite hilarious. Talk about getting made an absolute fool of on camera. Banks, you're toast. No one like slippery evasion, memory loss, sudden memory clarity when presented with a transcript, stonewalling, and a walk away.

It was brutal — especially the tottering-off-into-the-distance shot at the end.

But…

Sacha

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:15:28 +1300

Winston’s support base

they're just resting

merc

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:07:00 +1300

Words fail.

BenWilson

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:02:46 +1300

Rob Stowell

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:42:41 +1300

Man responsible for the hobbit law gets downed by a contractor working on spec, priceless.
Very sharp, spot on, M!

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:18:34 +1300

a harsh tuskmaster...
man bag... elephant
Pachyderms have thick skin
their scrotal sacs were much prized
by Hannibal's legionnaires for
keeping salt and gold...*
...the symbolism is astounding!

*OK, I made that up!

merc

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:00:41 +1300

Without doubt that man bag was left there for a reason, a reason so cunning you could probably pin an elephant on it and call it Dumbo ;-)

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:54:09 +1300

Puca Joyce arranged to have the mic planted ;-)
or better yet – knew it was gonna happen,
and instructed the DPS to let it happen...
– plausible deniability with all the ensuant
benefits of faux outrage and diversionary circus...

Public is left to deal with the giant toxic
elephant…

BenWilson

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:48:07 +1300

Even Ol' Don Brash (ODB) thinks what's on the tapes is in the public interest. By which I presume he means that it's in his interest.

merc

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:44:13 +1300

Puca Joyce arranged to have the mic planted ;-)

Ross Mason

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:42:48 +1300

I knew there was something in the past I had seen that has that familar ring......

Seems that the same PR brigade is still active and spouting the same tactics.

Starts about 1-40 minutes in. Duncan Garner again........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58AuXTbx4xU

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:39:04 +1300

I have no sympathy whatsoever.

Fine – and the next time I hear someone from RNZ plaint that public broadcasting can’t get no respect, I’ll go squeeze a few tears out of the house crocodile too. There’s a difference between “ignoring the story” and actually making an editorial call that…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:33:49 +1300

Oberon's envoy... the play's the thing...
Peter Goodfellow withdrew from Morning Report today after promising to come on and talk about Epsom
Could he be Robin Goodfellow's brother?
that shrewd and knavish sprite
Call'd Robin Goodfellow: are not you he
That frights the maidens of the villagery;
Skim milk, and…

merc

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:31:21 +1300

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5981530/MPs-get-pay-rise-package-of-7000
They get paid well to answer questions, no matter how lame those questions may be.

Tom Semmens

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:29:34 +1300

A glazed eye repeating of the same spam-bot message probably seems a great idea to Steven Joyce, but to me it is starting to sound decided creepy. Clearly the National strategy is to simply refuse to go off-message and not engage with the media. The problem with that is John…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:18:43 +1300

Going up North for a while...
My ‘Holiday Highways to Nowhere’ poster...
...is there a "Mr Nowhere's Hawaii Holidays' poster too?

Russell Brown

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:14:40 +1300

Meanwhile, I thought Morning Report was supposed to be a quality news source.

Just listened to three party leaders – Goff, Brash and Peters – and not one policy related question.

Labour did release its youth affairs policy yesterday, so I suppose that could have been discussed. Perhaps it will…

Roger Lacey

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:53:49 +1300

I thought that National campaign ad was hinting I should go green.

merc

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:45:50 +1300

Man responsible for the hobbit law gets downed by a contractor working on spec, priceless.

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:36:54 +1300

Meanwhile, I thought Morning Report was supposed to be a quality news source.

Just listened to three party leaders – Goff, Brash and Peters – and not one policy related question.

If teapotgate is a “distraction” from “real issues”, perhaps National Radio could try focusing on its basic responsibility as…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 02:04:14 +1300

What was with the Winstonite? He seemed like an old lag at the rark-the-crowd-up thing?
A self-declared small-g green too!
Just put his pic up, along with the others.

I had hoped for a few snaps of the one who's becoming known as the Loch Ness Monster of the hustings,…

linger

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 01:57:14 +1300

that tea-drinking Key

I want to see what Key’s like after a few beers goddammit.
C’mon, prove you’re a real man, ya wuss!
Tea, pffft, whaddarya, going after Winston’s support base or summat?

Keir Leslie

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 01:55:19 +1300

Ha! You were there too Joe? If I'd known I would have said something. What was with the Winstonite? He seemed like an old lag at the rark-the-crowd-up thing?

Also, pretty impressed with the Alliance chap, and Kennedy Graham seemed good.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 01:41:10 +1300

I wonder what if Winston and Banks had been, umm, reunited on the panel...

Steve Parks

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:51:04 +1300

The widespread believe now is that it was planned, to, as Tracey Watkins puts it, drive a wedge between the public and the media.

If it’s a stunt, it’s a bloody risky one.

If it’s a stunt, it’s one Key handled ineptly. He really did come across very poorly during…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:38:12 +1300

Is it worth it?

Was rather interesting. Would have been even better if Gyon Espiner had just wanked Winnie's ego live on air, and used the time saved on letting the other leaders address actual questions. Which, to my great surprise, Harawira managed without coming across as a foaming nutcase.…

Steve Parks

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:34:43 +1300

An utterly bizarre poll result.

Text message poll results such as this one would be flawed even if they were free. Given a 75 cent per text cost... doesn't even deserve to be called a poll.

DexterX

Thu, 17 Nov 2011 00:06:58 +1300

NZ Herald 9.30 PM 16 Nov 2011 – Winston makes splash at debate

New Zealand First leader Winston Peters challenged Prime Minister John Key to be "a real bloke''

and

"Above all if he's going to be a bloke that has a beer with the boys and drinks out of…

James Francis

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:55:44 +1300

Peter Dunne. How could you forget Peter Dunne?

Islander

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 23:13:34 +1300

Phuqing choice!

DexterX

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:52:44 +1300

Classic

Joe Wylie

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:46:59 +1300

Signs o' the times, today in Christchurch.

DexterX

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:45:33 +1300

That is great.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:41:44 +1300

that would just such a blast to have Winston in with Mr Williams

Yeah, I'm sure it would – two barely competent, attention-seeking bigoted thugs for the price of one. Still, it might be amusing to see Mr. Williams get a short, sharp reality check that his abusive shenanigans at…

Carol Stewart

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:35:34 +1300

Yes, I saw most of it. An utterly bizarre poll result. I thought Brash was completely inept and floundering; Peters was very one-dimensional (perhaps that's the secret of his popularity,that his supporters have memory loss?), Harawira landed some good hits but sounded a bit scary on some topics; Turia was…

Lilith __

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:29:32 +1300

Has anyone already posted this gem from Denis Welch?

Joe Wylie

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:17:38 +1300

There also seems to be a bit of frustration around the country about National Party candidates not turning up to, or pulling out of election meetings.
Brownlee didn’t front to the Ilam candidates event tonight, which seemed to come as no surprise to most of those who turned up. Six…

thegirlstefan

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:09:36 +1300

I saw bits of it- Jane Clifton has a good, far wrap-up on the Listener Live election blog which Toby Manhire has been managing (very well- the guy must be exhausted!).

Another good candidates debate- Hauraki-Waikato electorate, in the hall at Ngaruawahia HS- tonight. Yes, Julian Wilcox is the Maori…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:00:41 +1300

Not too keen on Roads of Nationals significance either it seems.
Poll shows 81 per cent of Wellingtonians want more spending on public transport

My 'Holiday Highways to Nowhere' poster is now available from my new blog.

DexterX

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:34:42 +1300

John Key and John Banks after getting along famously at their tea date were planning to take a bath together later on that very nice evening, they also reminisced and tossed up who they would most like to shag – Dolly Parton or Margaret Thatcher – seeing as Shane Warne…

HenryB

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:21:13 +1300

I’ve heard all that ordinary bloke stuff and all the above politics stuff and I just can’t see where people get that impression.

But that's where one needs to start. Clearly JK `charm' doesn't stretch to convincing at least 45-48% of the electorate of the value of what he advocates…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:19:27 +1300

So Winnie and Hone got the thumbs up on the Debate on TV One, from the audience . Winnie 36% Hone 27% Don B 14% Tariana 3% Russell got 13% and Dunne was 7%.
Only caught the last half hour. Did anyone else watch it?

Kumara Republic

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:18:58 +1300

The next rhee years will see a rise in lock outs – me thinks.

Unite! managed to turn the tables not too long ago, by turning a lockout at a call centre into a boss-napping.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:16:25 +1300

Funny how that’s not in their campaign adverts. Nor is Labour saying much about it..

Which is why the PSA is making all the noises themselves.

Sacha

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:14:11 +1300

the shape of things to come

try this tidbit about public sector slashing, buried in a story last week about the prospective Finance Ministers.

When National came into office it inherited a set of Treasury forecasts pointing to a decade of deficits and an economy that had already been in…

Steve Barnes

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:07:48 +1300

I like that!He is a slippery sheet…

With a well polished persona,
Who said you couldn't polish one?.
Wax on Whacks off.

Paul Campbell

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:00:07 +1300

OK – how is it the Greens are allowed to steal other people's paste-ups off of National party signs – that seems just plain wrong ....

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:49:25 +1300

Warped n Loopy, Smooth n Glossy...
satin John
I like that!
He is a slippery sheet...

or even if it had been
statin John
that would sum up his approach:
to reducing the nation's fat,
lean times ahead...

DexterX

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:14:16 +1300

and now for some real news – just so that you all don't forget what it looks like – not that you are likely to see it in the popular media – but it hints at the shape of things to come.

The next rhee years will see a rise…

DexterX

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:02:23 +1300

Well, if Gigolo Winston manages to work his rancid charms on enough Grey Power meetings, we get former North Shore Mayor Andrew 'Piddles The Clown' Williams (#3 on the party list).

Thaks for this – I am really crossing my fingers in the hope that Winston gets up and Act…

DexterX

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:57:39 +1300

The number of people living in poverty ranked higher than the economy at 7.5.

Um, people living in poverty is an economic outcome – an outcome of an economy in trouble.

Chris Waugh

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:09:23 +1300

Oops, was I getting the wrong word? Sociopath may well be the word I should've used.

andin

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:02:02 +1300

Sociopath then.

Chris Waugh

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:58:36 +1300

You haven't really clarified things for me at all. I've heard all that ordinary bloke stuff and all the above politics stuff and I just can't see where people get that impression. 'Psychopath' is the impression he gives me. He strikes me as the kind of guy who doesn't feel…

Jonathan King

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:54:34 +1300

He kissed a toad, confident that something of his shininess would rub off on the critter. Now he's trying to blame the media for the resulting warts.

Ha! Nailed it.

HenryB

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:51:26 +1300

I just can’t for the life of me figure out why John Key is so popular.

Steven put a big finger on it earlier:

Key’s popularity has partly been based on his appearance of being above politics, an affable, likeable chap, not a politician really.

And that is why the…

Sacha

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:50:10 +1300

that tea-drinking Key has done Winnie the biggest favour

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:32:08 +1300

Well, if Gigolo Winston manages to work his rancid charms on enough Grey Power meetings, we get former North Shore Mayor Andrew 'Piddles The Clown' Williams (#3 on the party list). I'm sure that glittering jewel in the crown of local government will continue to show his appetite for hard…

Chris Waugh

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:31:53 +1300

Yeah, whatever John, run along now.

I wish he would.

It's been bugging me for a while now, and I just can't for the life of me figure out why John Key is so popular. My mum was here for a month, and so every day we'd watch 3 news…

Sacha

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:19:58 +1300

throw a used car dealer into the mix #popularitycontest

Steve Barnes

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:16:51 +1300

Not too keen on Roads of Nationals significance either it seems.
Poll shows 81 per cent of Wellingtonians want more spending on public transport
“The Roads of National Significance and other roading projects are currently gobbling the lion’s share of government transport money, when what New…

Steve Barnes

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:03:11 +1300

John Key's claim that the new Zealand public are concerned about the Economy above all else does not ring true.
3 News gave 21,000 voters a list of 21 options and asked for a ranking; 10 being most important, 1 being least important.
The environment came out on…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:54:39 +1300

The widespread believe now is that it was planned, to, as Tracey Watkins puts it, drive a wedge between the public and the media.

And as I said to you on Twitter, a cynic (that's me) would suggest to Ms. Watkins that the trivia-obsessed, increasingly tabloid media is doing a…

DexterX

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:41:25 +1300

It really is a whole lot of nothing over nothing. The media love this as they can waste time speculating and not addressing in any depth a real issue – like the economy, asset sales etc, etc.

Prime Minster John Key the first has put the matter in the hands…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:22:38 +1300

And the response has been to double down by pretending that he's some poor citizen — a parent! of children! — cruelly bugged by the evil media, rather than a political leader doing a media stunt.
He kissed a toad, confident that something of his shininess would rub off on…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:21:53 +1300

In doing so they’ve basically bet the farm on continued public faith in Key’s persona.

Forced exposure to sunlight can cause certain people to behave very strangely, and it's not just vampires either. The moment a mirror gets held up to them, it instantly cracks.

Sacha

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:02:56 +1300

Ah, the nostalgia. NZ politicians spitting the dummy through the ages.

Martin Lindberg

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:02:43 +1300

LOL, I just heard Key's interview on the radio. He seems to have had the same media training as Ed Miliband.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZtVm8wtyFI

Russell Brown

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:44:39 +1300

Key’s popularity has partly been based on his appearance of being above politics, an affable, likeable chap, not a politician really. Nothing could be more fatal to that image than a tape of him talking hard politics to a politician. That’s why it doesn’t matter what the details of the…

Russell Brown

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:40:18 +1300

Hooten, farrer and slater, the three hobbits, will be going out of their minds to spin this, seriously, has there ever been a worse election campaign anywhere?

Other countries have election campaigns where people get shot, so yes.

But this is certainly turning pretty bloody weird for what was supposed…

Russell Brown

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:36:45 +1300

It is possible Mr Hosking has very strong feelings about privacy and the like given the trouble (and cost!) of his unsuccessful case for breach of privacy against various media (Court of Appeal decision available here for the masochistic). I would not blame him at all if he had a…

George Darroch

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:24:52 +1300

You might think talking about “average voters” like they’re complete venal idiots – at least when they’re voting the wrong way – is endearing. I don’t.

People live in low information environments. There are a lot of things which are complicated and which I have only vague opinions on, or…

Steve Barnes

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:14:51 +1300

And me – with the proviso that it’s not really new policy because people who fail to get to job interviews because they’re off their faces are already marked down as failing to attend interviews.

I was thinking more about the "those wanted by the police would have their benefit…

Sacha

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:06:57 +1300

They really do think they're bulletproof

and there's the bigger story.

Steve Barnes

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:06:30 +1300

why would you expect people to agree with, or vote for, anyone who is insulting them?

I am not running for office, maybe you should address that question to John Key.

Sacha

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:54:44 +1300

what a colourful little corner of the world he has painted himself into

Russell Brown

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:54:22 +1300

Oh and I got the feeling that the media wanted to stay but realise Key’s (Joyce?) gameplan to bait them then pillory them. Sort of mad brave.

Key told the journalists he would answer questions on the tape, after the trade issues were discussed.

When they eventually did ask those…

Paul Williams

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:43:58 +1300

I'd not normally link to Perigo but since Pagani tweeted the link in the first place I thought I'd give it a quick look.

Michael Savidge

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:12:56 +1300

George says things that are applicable to any political question you may have. RIP.

Sacha

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:08:17 +1300

bloody Anglicans

merc

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:07:56 +1300

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/5976945/Key-not-upset-by-questions
Not upset but still don't want to talk, staged but still not working. Matter for the police but can't remember what was said.
New levels of crazy. I do wonder just how tough Key is in a negotiation, trade, hobbits, SAS spring to mind.
Oh and I got the…

Stewart

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:03:29 +1300

You might think talking about “average voters” like they’re complete venal idiots – at least when they’re voting the wrong way – is endearing. I don’t.

I clearly indicated I thought Steve was being a bit harsh & gave no indication that I found his characterisation endearing. You're getting to be…

Sarah Wedde

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:55:03 +1300

Drug test policy seems to unfairly discriminate against the demographic likely to be applying for the kind of jobs that require drug testing. Presumably my middle-aged white lady self gets a free pass on this one.

Keir Leslie

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:52:20 +1300

In which case it would have been, “meh, the usual anarchist suspects with too much time on their hands at it again…”

But that is what happened, and unfortunately the Greens are now the usual suspects.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:49:10 +1300

Oh, come on, those stickers were hilarious, until it turned out that it was being run out of the Green Party. Then it became awkward.

The whole point is that it wouldn't have blown up the way it did, had it been an Indymedia or Ruckus Society job. In which…

Keir Leslie

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:44:19 +1300

And the outbreak of foot-shooting would be deeply unamusing.

Oh, come on, those stickers were hilarious, until it turned out that it was being run out of the Green Party. Then it became awkward.

merc

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:41:25 +1300

All self interest tests prove positive, naturally.

FletcherB

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:41:15 +1300

Sorry, I'm a couple of pages late, but...

I think it’s just electoral thrill seeking rather than any calculated sabotage plot

Oh come on.... 700 billboards "improved", 50 people doing it in wide-spread locations, all with the same stickers.....

How could you get that to magically just happen over one…

BenWilson

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:40:24 +1300

And has been outperformed on that by Turei.

She has by far the best smile. At an unconscious level, I already like her. Similar to Key's effect on other people, but I just spent too long at a finance company, in the company of too many guys just like him,…

Paul Williams

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:39:43 +1300

Selfish in that they want excess money and resources for themselves at the expense of other people and the environment.
Deluded in that they believe they can actually achieve this, rather than themselves being screwed by the 1%.

Apparently that's called congnitive polyphasia although I'm still not sure I agree.…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:35:07 +1300

The average voter is pretty simple and rather gullible

I'd substitute selfish and deluded.

Selfish in that they want excess money and resources for themselves at the expense of other people and the environment.

Deluded in that they believe they can actually achieve this, rather than themselves being screwed by…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:32:35 +1300

The Boraginaceae – Myosotis...
Key yesterday said he could not remember if he suggested NZ First supporters were "dying out".
He says that a lot!
It worries me that we may a memory impaired – possibly early stage Alzheimers – person at the helm of our country, and he is…

merc

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:29:50 +1300

I keep thinking about the way this Govt. have ridden the public service, Council level too, you know the soldiers...how are they feeling about all this? I know they are not allowed to say.
Also if only Labour had thrown something to small business, still, I doubt now whether it…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:26:02 +1300

@Steve Barnes: I suspect "gullible" and "simple" are more a case of the middle & lower classes working longer hours to maintain their living standards. And that means shorter attention spans across the board. When middle classes feel they're fighting for their own survival, they're ripe for capture by reactionary demagogues.

Sacha

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:25:46 +1300

I meant before that blew up. And the outbreak of foot-shooting would be deeply unamusing. The guy comes across as an incompetent and self-satisfied tosser with the "I'm sorry if you're hurt" non-apology. Love a bit of culture jamming, but it has to be done better than that.

Keir Leslie

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:22:53 +1300

And has been outperformed on that by Turei.

Nah, to be blunt, Turei has been lost in the damage control over the billboards. It must hurt to have to apologise for something so fucking funny.

(Speaking of which, how dumb was it to (a) tell his partner and (b) admit…

Sacha

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:14:03 +1300

Phil Goff might be celebrating the greatest return from the dead since Jesus Christ and resisting the urge to make a long string of "fuck you!" phone calls.

a beautiful image

Kumara Republic

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:12:55 +1300

WRT the teal coalition: The Greens might want to think very carefully about how the LibDem/Tory coalition is working out for the LibDems in the UK.

Indeed. The UK LibDems seem to be going the way of Winston First in 1996-99.

And to those living in Epsom, feel free to…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:06:04 +1300

As long as it’s only words you’re pushing into other people’s mouths, Craig.

Steve may have been a little harsh with his call on ‘average voters’ but there’s no need to make out he was raving like a David Icke.

You might think talking about “average voters” like they’re complete…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:05:26 +1300

It is possible Mr Hosking has very strong feelings about privacy and the like given the trouble (and cost!) of his unsuccessful case for breach of privacy against various media

His run-ins with Jono Marshall publishing pics of his kids seem to have a lot to do with it.

Sacha

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:03:10 +1300

Also, he gets to trade on the same vibe Key is going for, about the right to privacy, without having anything to hide.
And has been outperformed on that by Turei.

BenWilson

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:52:32 +1300

Yes, I can't quite work out why Goff seems to be concurring with the PM's line that it's all the rotten media's fault and everyone should just move on.

I can see why he would. It's lost airtime for Labour, and it's lost airtime about economic policy, upon which National…

Rich Lock

Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:50:23 +1300

WRT the teal coalition: The Greens might want to think very carefully about how the LibDem/Tory coalition is working out for the LibDems in the UK.

The general consensus of opinion seems to be that the LibDems are coming across as a bunch of naifs who are getting played like…