Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: The Perfect Drug

B Jones

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 10:16:53 +1200

For many people, part of the appeal of alcoholic drinks — and cannabis for that matter — is that it has come from the earth, with all the mystery and variety that reflects into the end product. I currently have a bottle of the Bruichladdich Rocks, which the label says…

merc

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 07:22:00 +1200

Cannabis, cars and cops, the Govt's holy trinity for keeping you and me in check.

chris

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 03:38:19 +1200

Indeed Tracy. For the alcohol comparison I found:

"there were between 2205 and 2512 cannabis-related admissions to publicly-funded hospitals between 2001 and 2005.|there were between 2205 and 2512 cannabis-related admissions to publicly-funded hospitals between 2001 and 2005…

… But the Drug Harm Index shows cannabis is the most widely used…

TracyMac

Sun, 17 Jun 2012 15:20:58 +1200

Thanks, Chris. I personally tend to agree with the thrust of the Times article, in that any association cannabis use has with mental health issues is not going to be a mechanistic cause/effect one. And this is with close personal experience of people who were cannabis-dependent and had associated issues.…

chris

Sun, 17 Jun 2012 03:30:07 +1200

This may be a superior rundown on THC:CBD ratios. My apologies for any inaccuracies

chris

Sat, 16 Jun 2012 16:16:39 +1200

And sorry to go on, I was concerned my syntax was a little vague, obviously many already know this but in the interests of clarity for the uninitiated:
Indica: more CBD – stoned
Sativa: more THC – high

My apologies to anyone offended by my use of Wikipedia as a…

chris

Sat, 16 Jun 2012 15:22:46 +1200

I suppose if you include psych admissions

TIme has some interesting and well balanced articles:

The Link Between Marijuana and Schizophrenia

Marijuana May Both Trigger and Suppress Psychosis

There's a degree of overlap, the second being briefer. A conclusion that both put forward being:

If marijuana and similar substances were…

TracyMac

Sat, 16 Jun 2012 11:38:44 +1200

I loved the claims from the cops after the big pot bust in Wgtn last week that marijuana is the illicit drug responsible for the most hospital admissions. I suppose if you include psych admissions, it could well be true. NO mention of alcohol-related admissions, or how many of those…

chris

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:23:31 +1200

I suspect that the tar from tobacco is not the same as tar from marijuana.

That is exactly right, when attempting to find conclusive info on the respective composition and residual effects of these tars I stumbled on a minefield of conflicting (mis)information/ opinions. Whichever way it’s spun, inhaling smoke…

Islander

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 20:00:30 +1200

Just wanted to wave a flag for the good things SSRIs can do for some people. I wish I’d asked for them a lot

2 of my sisters and – especially- my mother – live normal lives BECAUSE of SSRIs.
They work, for a lot of people.

Lilith __

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 19:53:34 +1200

How are ya feeling?

Oh pretty good now, thanks Sof. Just wanted to wave a flag for the good things SSRIs can do for some people. I wish I'd asked for them a lot earlier instead of being all stoical. Looking back I can't think what I was trying to…

Russell Brown

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:22:08 +1200

needs to quickly read this

Amazing. Worth noting that one of commenters congratulating Nutt on his debunking is a former head of UK Action on Smoking and Health .

Pete

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:19:00 +1200

Out of curiosity, did the cops send you pics of the firearms as well?

Stewart

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:57:10 +1200

Is the 'tar' inhaled from marijuana the same chemical compound as that inhaled from tobacco? You see these comments about 'tar' in reports, but to me 'tar' is a generic term for dark, sticky stuff and I wonder if apples are being compared with apples when such comparisons as Chris…

chris

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:34:49 +1200

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KVPxfUU-Go

Steve Barnes

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:30:29 +1200

But hey what about the John Money Collection in Gore

Our Prime Minister has a collection in Gore?
Oh, hang on... What was his name again?.

chris

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:07:26 +1200

Thanks for posting that Herald article, In the interests of public health it’s possibly worth elaborating on a number of points, as it did touch on some useful info:

linking it to respiratory, circulatory and psychiatric problems.

Although direct links to cancer and psychiatric problems are still contended, there’s no…

richard thomson

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 10:18:06 +1200

Hmmm . . . anyone who reads this
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10811302
needs to quickly read this
http://profdavidnutt.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/smoke-without-fire-scaremongering-by-the-british-lung-foundation-over-cannabis-vs-tobacco/
Pretty sure you won't be reading it in the Herald though.

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:56:18 +1200

since the Dec 23rd shakes,

credit: Felix Bowker.

How are ya feeling? Even if there is a bit of psycho active thing going on, it can be an interesting drive and some even help the ol' sex drive but what I found on some of the shit I took in…

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 21:43:45 +1200

Morphine makes me vomit.

That's right. So it worked then. Thing is ,instead of the discomfort of spewing, one must then get out and enjoy it because if nothing else you will be Queen for the day.

Richard Aston

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:03:04 +1200

SSRIs have about as much appeal as a weekend in Gore.
Unless your in Gore And on SSRIs, then who cares..

But hey what about the John Money Collection in Gore

Lilith __

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:55:52 +1200

SSRIs have about as much appeal as a weekend in Gore

There's a lot of citalopram being prescribed in post-quake Chch. I've been taking it since the Dec 23rd shakes, and it's made life possible again.

Danielle

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:38:49 +1200

Poor Gore.

Scott Chris

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:16:09 +1200

Considering how fast he was to suggest escitalopram to my wife for anxiety, a mood altering SSRI with quite far reaching effects, I nearly choked on the hypocrisy of the guy.

You may be being a little hard on him. Speaking as an abstainer with an unhealthy predilection for psychoactive…

Craig Young

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:30:17 +1200

And here I have some problems with either portmanteau, universal prohibition or laissez-faire legalisation of drugs alike. I'm okay with simple euphoriant drug decriminalisation when it comes to E and whatever recreational equivalent highs are not currently illegal, given that it will encourage harm minimisation and risk reduction.

And again,…

Lilith __

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:13:55 +1200

Morphine makes me vomit. Codeine makes me keep falling asleep and only vomit occasionally. Both helpful with bad pain but wouldn't want to put myself through the side-effects otherwise. :-)

Emma Hart

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:09:47 +1200

I spent weeks on codeine post-surgery, mostly to come down off the morphine. Which I had very much needed for the pain, I'm just slightly disappointed opiate addiction wasn't more fun.

Hebe

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:01:05 +1200

Codeine too. After 10 days on codeine post emergency surgery, I knew it was time to stop when I found myself giving the charge nurse a convincing (and successful) rendition of "why it's too soon to stop giving me those pills".

Sacha

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:55:52 +1200

a mood altering SSRI

no market for one that didn't :)

Richard Aston

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:46:41 +1200

I don't understand the public hysteria about recreational drugs and the passive silence around "medications" , the medical profession's spin for their drugs.
I know too many people recovering from addictions to medically prescribed drugs ( medications)
Tramadol – a scary bitch to get off for one freind
Morphine -…

Stewart

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:20:27 +1200

If the reactionary ol' media took a principled line with the evidence and ditched the moralistic, hysterical "all use is abuse" line we might get a more reasoned debate around recreational drug use.

But the line they take (& the scare headlines) sell more copies/page-hits/whatever and keeps the advertising revenue stream…

Islander

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:00:49 +1200

One of the things about the drug alcohol (which I dearly love, whether single malts,
champane (not a spelling error – I dont especially relish champagne) or good ANZ whites- is – it’s a pain killer also!
I have osteoarthritis and *very bad (as in ‘broken & decayed’) teeth* – pain…

richard

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:40:57 +1200

Guns and drugs — Omar comin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueDjiAm5rzE

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:17:20 +1200

(Dunne rejected the commission’s advice on medical cannabis at the same time).

Which, to be fair, he’s perfectly entitled to do. I just wish that, like Jim Anderton on suicide prevention policy (a subject he was understandably highly emotional about), Dunne wasn’t so prone to being dismissive, condescending or downright…

andin

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 19:27:27 +1200

and more to do with the unshakeable political wisdom that there’s not enough political upside to taking an evidence-based approach to drug policy.

Ah yes pandering to peoples ignorance. Anyway why baffle with science when you can scare the crap outta people with horror tittletattle.
Sounds familiar

chris

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:39:03 +1200

he denies pain medication to people all the time

A hallmark of the failed dentist....

Ross Bell

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:37:43 +1200

http://my.lawsociety.org.nz/news/government_gives_response_to_law_commission_drug_law_review

Ross Bell

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:34:15 +1200

I think you'll find it will get past Dunne considering he was the one who directed the Ministry to do that work. It's part of the Law Commission drug law reform work that the Government agreed to prior to the last election (Dunne rejected the commission's advice on medical cannabis…

BenWilson

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:26:01 +1200

My doctor was bragging to me a few weeks ago about how he denies pain medication to people all the time, because people can get addicted. Considering how fast he was to suggest escitalopram to my wife for anxiety, a mood altering SSRI with quite far reaching effects, I nearly…

Danielle

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:19:01 +1200

I mean, it was *fine*, things were a wee bit fuzzy round the edges and whatnot, but... I expected more. Opiate, schmopiate.

chris

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:14:28 +1200

Oddly enough, I was thinking just a couple of nights ago that it was a shame there was not an evening tipple that might make me feel nice and warm and relaxed after dinner without the implications for personal health involved in few single malts.

Bhang may go nicely with…

Sacha

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:07:16 +1200

Where was my floating?

what, Tramadol didn't do that for you? #crikey

Danielle

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:38:09 +1200

I had a little bit of back pain and my doctor gave me diazepam (valium) and tramadol

Hey! How come I only got a bit of tramadol and mostly boring old paracetamol/ibuprofen at home when recovering from a c-section? That's major surgery! *I* wanted to float, dammit! Where was my…

Jackie Clark

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:33:42 +1200

I have read nothing here that mentions that, for a still sizeable portion of the drinking demographic, the very idea of it is to get shitfaced. Whether, as with Robyn's friend, to give themselves the illusion of escaping from their problems, or just because that's what they are habituated to.…

Morgan Nichol

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:31:53 +1200

Last year I had a little bit of back pain and my doctor gave me diazepam (valium) and tramadol. I'll tell you what, I went from extremely unhappy to really, really, really comfortable on the sofa with just a couple of pills and a nice glass of beer.

(Beer contraindicated…

Richard Stewart

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:30:46 +1200

The wider public perception on this debate is the biggest hurdle IMHO. It's a poisoned chalice for any politician brave enough to take an evidence-based position on the legal status of recreational drugs. Just look at what happened to Don Brash – even though his Marijuana decriminalization comment was probably…

Russell Brown

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:21:35 +1200

Something I notice about the drug regulation debate is that there are many people who believe that if they marshal their arguments well enough and make a sound case for a science-based policy, government will change. It doesn’t work like that – illegal drugs are illegal in order to enable…

Richard Stewart

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:04:43 +1200

"yeah, we have to put a stop to all this horse-riding"

Especially if the horse in on Ketamine

Stewart

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:00:43 +1200

JUST SAY YES!

Kumara Republic

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:10:54 +1200

It doesn’t work like that – illegal drugs are illegal in order to enable government to pose as the friend and protector of the non-drug-taking majority.

It’s an othering strategy – same with child abuse. Paula Bennet doesn’t give a stuff about abused kids – she wants her white (lower)…

merc

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:59:23 +1200

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNbExvU42q4

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:38:43 +1200

a new and very different perspective on drug regulation

Bet that doesn't get past Dunne.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:38:25 +1200

Well, this is interesting …

A certain mole tells me that the Ministry of Health is quietly moving towards a new and very different perspective on drug regulation, at least as regards new substances – driven by the knowledge that playing whack-a-mole runs the very considerable risk of what you…

Russell Brown

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:25:07 +1200

Well, this is interesting …

Sacha

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:23:27 +1200

It's the basic problem with all harm minimization arguments – if you can find any harm whatsoever in X, then minimization of harm means that X can't be taken.

only if you also apply black and white thinking.

Russell Brown

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:20:31 +1200

It’s kind of sad that liberalism has ended up mostly being about preventing harm, when the main point of it was the maximization of happiness, and harm minimization is only one small part of that. It’s lost its way when harm reduction is what life is all about.

Quite. It's…

BenWilson

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:09:44 +1200

He also pointed out that more people are killed riding horses than die due to taking ecstacy/MDMA.

Gotta love that kind of stat. My only worry is that a lot of people will see that and think "yeah, we have to put a stop to all this horse-riding". It's the…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:05:48 +1200

I thought the AK-74 with the modified stock was more interesting than the drugs. Not sure how useful one of those would be in drug dealing though – it's kinda big to conceal.

Mr Magoo

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:51:49 +1200

As to benzodiazepates: What the fuck?

Errr...that list looks very similar to the one for alcohol. (possibly smaller) Of course alcohol is not a restricted substance so they have not made a list...hypocrites.
For example: Would you suggest someone suffering depression or having suicidal tenancies get plastered??

Except of course…

Angus Robertson

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:47:36 +1200

Plus introducing more drug choices allows governments to say "Hello, unrealised taxation stream". All the positive effects and none of the negative of raising the rate of GST.

Damian Christie

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:07:15 +1200

Nutt's pretty much my hero. I interviewed him for PA Radio a while back, great man.

Richard Stewart

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:06:11 +1200

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnU2f-rrvcg

Sacha

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:56:42 +1200

We'll always have Clayton's

roflnui

aimee whitcroft

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:54:36 +1200

Nutt's a very impressive (and sweet! I've met him) man. He was the UK Govt's chief drug advisor until they sacked him from the post for saying that alcohol was more dangerous than ecstacy and LSD.

He also pointed out that more people are killed riding horses than die due…

Robyn Gallagher

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:53:46 +1200

I have a friend who is an alcoholic but he goes to great pains to spin his alcoholism as some sort of high cultural experience. He doesn't get rool pissed as, he imbibes, even though there is no difference between the two states.

And I think, what would happen to…

Will de Cleene

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:53:21 +1200

I was thinking just a couple of nights ago that it was a shame there was not an evening tipple that might make me feel nice and warm and relaxed after dinner without the implications for personal health involved in few single malts.

We'll always have Clayton's.

Pete Sime

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:42:24 +1200

That looks like the beginning of a great weekend…

Or Hunter S. Thompson's leftovers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2pgWsYSyUA#t=0m59s

Kumara Republic

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:42:02 +1200

Apparently “bath salts” have been held responsible for some cannibalistic “zombie” attacks of late. While relatively harmless marijuana remains boxed in by neo-superstition.

Sean Murgatroyd

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:30:11 +1200

I like the fact you can either have a bag just with your favourite, or a selection, like the mythical 50c lolly bag of my youth.

As to benzodiazepates: What the fuck?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam#Adverse_effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam#Contraindications

Next up: Benzedrine is the perfect pick-me-upper, and medicine-grade heroin will help your evening soiree run…

Damian Christie

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:29:18 +1200

That looks like the beginning of a great weekend...

Joanna

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:26:05 +1200

I looked at all those pretty pastel pills and thought they were crying out to be arranged in an hombre order and instagramed.

Sacha

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:17:18 +1200

Man those pillmongers are tidy with their ziplocs.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:16:54 +1200

Sorry to start with trivia, but I'm awfully impressed the Police are sending poor recession-stricken media folks pictures of drugs they can no longer afford for reals. That's just mean.

Public Address

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:16:54 +1200

Discussion from blog post.