What will happen to Prince Charming when his beloved turns into Sleeping Beauty waking only 4 – 6 hours a day?

Karl Lagerfeld wants to marry his cat

If McVicar's comments weren't so deadly serious, they'd be farcical. Is he on a dry run for a CCCP candidacy?

Beware the boogey man.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8199943/Lobbyist-links-gay-marriage-to-crime-rise-in-NZ

Way to paddle a waka eh?

According to FF, good fundies "support" civil unions now because they offer substantive relationship equality to LGBT couples in the context of legislative guarantees. In which case, how does McCoskrie explain French antigay organisation Avenir de la Culture attacking the French Catholic Bishops…

At Anth: Database logic. Can't fault it. That guy, gay, gal, gil has thought about it. It WOULD be a bureacratic nightmare. Maybe much easier if we were all just "us's". – No connections to anyone else inside…

1: Peeps at Many Lands – Oceania
2: Ex libris plate – Ella Kite
3: Title page – 1912

ETA: Link back should be to Anth's comment.

ETA2: The comments thread is great, most of the…

It's a bit like my neighbours in California a decade ago, two women who'd been married for years and years (one of them used to be a guy)

It's like…

Incidentally, this appears to be the primary source of Bob's ruminations. It's a US conservative Catholic website (surprised? :) ) ,…

I was more thinking McCoskrie First would be coming to the beach with a tape measure.

Or any of these barring the guy at the back, who is clearly going straight to hell.

Mind you, this one seems the most dak-proof. And the missus can make it for you, to…

Something like this? http://www.anorak.co.uk/234387/news/flashback/winston-churchill-a-life-in-rare-and-memorable-pictures.html/?pid=4808#img

I imagine him to be more of a stripey full body one-piece kind of guy, possibly with a bathing hat. You can't be dakked in one of those, and no-one can see your nipples. He's probably not heard of the atomic wedgie.

Moz, I'm curious where you draw a line of calling something a poly relationship, as compared to merely causal and non-monogamous. Is…

Well, perhaps I’m a naive old whoopsie but I took the folks who went hither and yon saying that same-sex marriage was totally unnecessary because civil unions were effectively the same thing at face…

Stubing Versus Germany (European Court of Human Rights: 2012): http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.aspx?i=001-110314

The facts of the case are these:

As a consequence of family violence, Patrick Stuebing was adopted out of his birth family as a child. As an adult, he was reunited with…

I think, but may be wrong, that he was looking at the definition of marriage equality I was offered, and found that it would include the marriage of siblings (or other other couples within the pairings we currently consider…

Emma, I was…

Ben, this post of Max's might help, where he runs through…

What, Martin Luther, the very founder of Protestant Christianity himself- and an advocate of polygamy.…

I'm just trying to find out if poly means more than "sleeps around", in your understanding of the term. Is it a continuum from that…

I…

I…

It's a fair cop. Once people got proof that the end of civilisation did NOT occur as a result of civil unions – then they became much more comfortable about being fair…

I tend to think this is why there's not a deafening roar from polygamous marriage…

With the proviso that his real warning was “civil unions might cause you to change your mind about same-sex marriage”.

The current bill wouldn’t have been politically viable if there hadn’t been…

boobs just freak em out

My couch is my secondary partner, but I've lingered with it for a while longer than I expected. I've had a chat with my bed, though, and it's fine with that.

Anyway, I've just skimmed that…

Ahem. I believe what I said was “terribly fucking reasonable”. It was Emma who said “polite”. I’m not sure I could cope with having to answer for what she says…

I hope I won't be judged for sharing my time between couch and bed. One is easier to go to sleep on, the other easier to be asleep in, and much nicer to wake…

I was being facetious, following your lead. I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that even if there are probabilistic connections along the chain of horrors on the slippery slope, it's still not clearly…

That's why a bunch of hippie Westerners invented terms like "polyamory", which still gives me the shits with its wankiness,…

Point taken, and I didn't intend…

Sorry, Graeme, I thought the K was the correct spelling. I would never wish to denigrate people in that way.

Euan, you mean polygyny. "Polygamy" doesn't specify gender. It's often used as a synonym for polygyny, as Max said, which is why I…

So can people please take the time to refer to…

But regarding toy-throwing, one can…

I really did wonder how far it went. I found out, for example, that it is not age-limited, but competency-based.

You are right that we need data. Among cultures that allow more…

That's what Daniel Day-Lewis looks like?

I'm not sure how they are not subsumed. The change extends legally privileged serial monogamy to same-sex…

Good old modus ponens – if a infers b, and a is true...

Of course, propositional logic has nothing much to say if the premises are ridiculous. Sure, you can make a logical proof, but whether or not…

But we're a long way from having that debate. Even Bob McKroskie isn't throwing his toys to that extent. There doesn't seem to be any desire in the borader population…

That's a…

Anyways, as I have said before, being a queer poly person who is pretty fervent about the whole thing ("activist", meh), this is why I don't actually support marriage as a legal concept, full stop.

If you want to…

I would have thought naked jogging is easier on your moral fabric as there's less chafing.

I disagree that marriage between men and women made same sex marriage easier to implement. In principle there could be a concept of marriage between same sex couples without…

"When left untreated"... #GoldenGlobes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xcb0uSljk4

While my whole argument was not to engage with Family First, I sort of wish someone would interview him on why he's against polygamy when it's positively biblical. And when…

I am not horrified by it, but I have no wish for it to be part of our culture. In my view it tends to be associated with patriarchy and yes, I agree that in some utopia it might be…

If there was no such thing as marriage, there could be no same-sex marriage. So it did definitely make it easier. The…

Logical, but with a false premise. The…

verily

Not really. It's a possible strategy, at…

To me, the ability of anyone who can give informed consent to marry anyone who is also capable.

That's the core requirement for any contract, and I haven't been persuaded that any of the other requirements make sense. I realise that's a huge jump, because our…

I'm not super invested in this one, but in general…

Like Russel, a lot of them are incrementalists. Take this step, then find a core of marriage-equality proponents who are not strict monogamists to keep the battle rolling.

Which is precisely the slippery slope that McCroskie is talking about. Just because…

If someone is really firmly opposed to state recognition of…

I think there were people denying it. It may have been dissembling, but it was there. I recall a fair bit going on when the…

Graeme: yeah. But I don’t think anyone was denying that the long run goal was full equality,…

Yes. That seems evident and highly material to me.

What is marriage equality?

Perhaps not, but there were a bunch of people denying that it was.

At the first reading of the Civil Union Bill, Metiria Turei said:

__“Marriage as understood in our society, and as formalised…

Gay-and-lesbian marriage is not marriage equality, and it's kind of annoying to see someone equate the two in a discussion of poly marriage.

Most of them out of respect. There are many and vigorous voices in the queer marriage movement who want very much not to talk about polyamory.

So to be heard, they first…

He seems to have been right about the slippery slope of civil unions leading to same-sex marriage, however.

You mean like when blended marriages break up? We already deal with that. It's not unusual to see three or more adults in family courts discussing freely and frankly how they think…

I shouldn't be surprised — in my opinion, McCoskrie is not a very honest man — but wow: Family First thoroughly and grievously misinterpreted their evidence there, didn't they? Rather puts Graeme's (quite proper)…

That would be good. Public morality is undermined by his lack of integrity far more than by anything he opposes.

Marriage doesn't have a lot of real world impact in terms of changing your legal rights in New Zealand, but one of the ways it does have an effect is in property division after divorce, which gets a bit…

The Queer Avengers became his new favorite activist group when they mentioned polygamy mid last year

(More recently someone looked at the links on Bob’s list of slippery evidences and wasn’t impressed)

Fixed!

Wikipedia lists some.

Anyone know of (tribal?) traditions that allow a woman to have four husbands?

He just does. It is a tribal custom of some sort.

Is that a constitutional requirement, or he just does?

McCoskrie doesn’t think it is discriminatory.

I also don’t think he’d…

South…

We so need a clubhouse and a secret handshake.

Being someone who's in favour of both same-sex marriage and legalised polyamorous marriage, I've been thinking about this, and I think the root problem is the framing of the argument.

Same-sex marriage…