Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: The long road to Hit and Run https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371868#post371868 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371868#post371868 Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:01:30 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371841#post371841 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371841#post371841 On the one hand, I am encouraged and impressed that Wayne Mapp has spoken out, and demonstrated basic human decency, and courage.

On t'other hand, I'm depressed that I am impressed ... since the NZDF hierarchy and their political masters have set the bar so low, that basic human decency…

]]> Thu, 30 Mar 2017 13:03:55 +1300 Brent Jackson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371808#post371808 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371808#post371808 And now the villagers' lawyers are saying "Tirgiran locals: ‘Tirgiran is not a village, and therefore “Tirgiran Village” does not exist’".

Basically, the book was incorrect in identifying the location of the villages, which are actually both within the red area that NZDF identified as where Operation Burnham took place.

]]> Wed, 29 Mar 2017 14:20:56 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371784#post371784 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371784#post371784 Tue, 28 Mar 2017 19:18:52 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371783#post371783 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371783#post371783 Tue, 28 Mar 2017 19:03:59 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371778#post371778 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371778#post371778 at the Spin-Off website. ]]> Tue, 28 Mar 2017 14:34:35 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371753#post371753 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371753#post371753
But it was shelved after being deemed “insufficiently accurate”, a decision made by a commander who oversaw one of New Zealand’s six-month deployments to the country.

There’s that SAS connection again.

Que? The officer in question was either Air Vice-Marshall Kevin Short, who by definition of his branch of service…

]]> Mon, 27 Mar 2017 14:19:13 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371752#post371752 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371752#post371752 Note that Keating is a former NZSAS Commanding Officer

As I pointed out last week he's one of at least three senior officers across the Army/NZDF who have held the post of CO NZSAS, and the highest-ranking enlisted soldier is also a former member of the Regiment (though not an…

]]> Mon, 27 Mar 2017 14:11:57 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371742#post371742 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371742#post371742 Here's a cynical variation on John Key's multiple hats sleight of hand from David Fisher's story.

Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee refused to be interviewed about New Zealand's time in Afghanistan, as did his predecessor Jonathan Coleman and generals at the NZDF.

Brownlee – whose job it is to guide the military's…

]]> Mon, 27 Mar 2017 09:28:05 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371740#post371740 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371740#post371740 Here's a very good overview of the facts so far from Dave Armstrong in the DomPost.

...if Hager's only motive is money then surely he would have co-written it with Lorde or Richie McCaw rather than the lesser-known, though internationally respected, journalist Jon Stephenson?

Nicholas Jones reports that an inquiry…

]]> Mon, 27 Mar 2017 09:06:22 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371738#post371738 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371738#post371738 Those of us who don't follow right wing pundits like Hosking and Leighton Smith might be surprised

.. at being fed snippets of their proud ignorance on RNZ. Yuck.

]]> Mon, 27 Mar 2017 08:27:13 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371736#post371736 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371736#post371736 I spoke too soon. English also appeared on Morning Report attempting to continue the spin of "unfounded allegations". It's looking like a coordinated defense was planned yesterday, according to this Stuff report.

English, Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee and Defence Force chief Lieutenant General Tim Keating met on Sunday afternoon to…

]]> Mon, 27 Mar 2017 07:46:16 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371735#post371735 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371735#post371735 That is truly beyond belief.

And shameful. Nicky Hager easily demolished the NZDF's latest spin on Morning Report.

It was a different operation, with the same name, at the same time, on the same night, but 2km away?

Seriously? When you're in a hole, it's best to stop digging. Let's…

]]> Mon, 27 Mar 2017 07:18:47 +1300 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371734#post371734 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371734#post371734 http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/327488/afghan-raids-nzdf-rubbishes-claims-in-book-hit-and-run

Lieutenant General Tim Keating said New Zealand troops never operated in the two villages, Naik and Khak Khuday Dad, which are named in the book.

The statement said the authors appeared to have confused interviews, stories and anecdotes from locals with an operation conducted two kilometres to the south,…

]]> Mon, 27 Mar 2017 01:29:16 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371727#post371727 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371727#post371727 Hit and Run on this morning's Mediawatch. Those of us who don't follow right wing pundits like Hosking and Leighton Smith might be surprised at the disservice NewstalkZB offers its listeners by providing both men with a platform to spout world class ignorance and… ]]> Sun, 26 Mar 2017 10:24:27 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371687#post371687 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371687#post371687 such a perfect fit for a reconstruction team's work, and is absolutely guaranteed to make them safer while doing that work. Nah. It was such ill-considered overkill that it has to be classed as revenge. ]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:31:46 +1300 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371686#post371686 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371686#post371686 It was the Reconstruction Team that had been attacked a number of times with one of their personnel killed.

It wouldn't have made any sense to allow that risk to continue. There's no way one would expect people to be building infrastructure if they weren't provided with adequate protection.

Characterising…

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:16:58 +1300 Kevin McCready https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371685#post371685 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371685#post371685 Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:05:04 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371683#post371683 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371683#post371683 ...it’s still editorialising.

Let's see. John Key, Bill English, former defence ministers Jonathan Coleman and Wayne Mapp (the latter has since recanted) and a few other Nats are furiously spinning this story as a mere conspiracy. We can hardly expect Gerry Brownlee to vary from the party line when he…

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 12:37:17 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371678#post371678 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371678#post371678 To describe this meticulous journalism as editorialisation is disingenuous at best.

No, haven't read the book. But my specific comment related to conveying the overall understanding of the tactical situation as it related to the wisdom of a decision to demolish houses.

And Hager is known for his editorialising. Informed…

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:20:25 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371677#post371677 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371677#post371677 No, we don’t. Not really. They can editorialise about what it might have been, but they weren’t there. The people who know the understanding of the tactical situation on the ground at the time are the officers who were there at the time. Nobody else.

Can I take it you've…

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:03:06 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371676#post371676 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371676#post371676 might have been, but they weren't there. The people who know the understanding of the tactical situation on the ground at the time are the officers who were there at the time. Nobody else. ]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:34:09 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371674#post371674 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371674#post371674 It’s a stupid tactical decision if you can think beyond your own immediate interests.

Maybe, maybe not. Neither you nor I has the first idea about the understanding of the tactical situation on the ground at the time.

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:10:26 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371672#post371672 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371672#post371672 My understanding is that nobody from the village was returning fire, which would surely have raised an immediate alarm within the SAS group.
Maybe it did. We have insufficient detail on that. It wasn't wholesale slaughter so someone stopped the shooting.

Note also that no weapons were discovered in the…

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:53:18 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371671#post371671 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371671#post371671 You cite to Fisher’s piece and then use that wording? Really?

My understanding is that nobody from the village was returning fire, which would surely have raised an immediate alarm within the SAS group. Note also that no weapons were discovered in the aftermath.

But the soldier’s account also conflicted…

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:41:54 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371670#post371670 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371670#post371670 When the true facts were widely known, it beggars belief that various defense ministers and even the PM were kept in the dark. Which suggests that they may have been complicit in covering up a serious war crime.

It's particularly stark in the printed paper this morning. Fish's story is…

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:26:39 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371669#post371669 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371669#post371669 Which suggests that they may have been complicit in covering up a serious war crime.

You cite to Fisher’s piece and then use that wording? Really? Killing non-combatants is a war crime if they’re killed despite it being known that they are non-combatants. From what Fisher describes, with a source…

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:26:27 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371668#post371668 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371668#post371668 Does the irony meter of anyone else trigger on this sentence? Or is it just me?

Yep. My scepticism meter shot right off the scale.

David Fisher has further confirmation that everyone in the SAS was aware of the civilian deaths, and the fact that "a number of those involved in…

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:12:30 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371667#post371667 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371667#post371667 that raises legitimate concerns about institutional adoption of a culture of cleaning up messes in secret rather than the exposure-to-sunlight appropriate to the military of a democracy.

Nicely phrased, thanks.

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:11:04 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371666#post371666 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371666#post371666 They are. For what the SAS does.

Well, yes. You generally respect a collective for what the collective does, at least in my experience.

The book seems to make a pretty clear case that having a top command dominated by SAS veterans may not be the best thing.

I don’t…

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 08:52:15 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371664#post371664 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371664#post371664 Does the irony meter of anyone else trigger on this sentence? Or is it just me?

Heh. For some reason this sprang to mind (scroll down slightly for full context).

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 07:27:33 +1300 Stephen R https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371663#post371663 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371663#post371663 Follow me on twitter if you're serious about this.

Does the irony meter of anyone else trigger on this sentence? Or is it just me?

]]> Fri, 24 Mar 2017 07:04:08 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371660#post371660 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371660#post371660 Within the military, nationally and internationally, they are absolutely respected.

They are. For what the SAS does.

The book seems to make a pretty clear case that having a top command dominated by SAS veterans may not be the best thing.

I don't have a lot of contact with military…

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:42:34 +1300 Kevin McCready https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371657#post371657 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371657#post371657 Stop being oblique and speak clearly.

You're being silly again Matthew. Follow me on twitter if you're serious about this. See #HitandRunNZ

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:38:52 +1300 Alex Coleman https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371655#post371655 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371655#post371655 Spot on Ben.

there's a good post here, (by a US Army Staff Officer) decrying the growing trend in the US military to talk about 'warrior culture' and explaining why it pretty much sucks in every respect.

https://angrystaffofficer.com/2016/12/14/stop-calling-us-warriors/

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 16:00:45 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371650#post371650 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371650#post371650 Do warriors really need to have a culture dedicated to glorification of killing?

No they don't and really we'd hope they don't.

But most humans are really shit at killing humans. So one of the most difficult things about making a soldier is training humans to be willing and able…

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 14:21:41 +1300 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371648#post371648 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371648#post371648 I think that our warriors – men and women – need to have more of a warrior culture than not, just as I would prefer our doctors to have a doctor culture and electricians to have an electrician culture, ballet dancers to have……etc

That's a pretty silly observation. Truistic at…

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 13:28:36 +1300 Ian Pattison https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371646#post371646 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371646#post371646 Thu, 23 Mar 2017 12:05:23 +1300 Kevin McCready https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371645#post371645 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371645#post371645 Here's what a soldier has to say about soldier worship.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/08/soldier-worship-royal-marine-murder-afghan

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:42:55 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371644#post371644 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371644#post371644 Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:40:21 +1300 Kevin McCready https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371643#post371643 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371643#post371643 Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:37:34 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371642#post371642 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371642#post371642 Some SAS are clearly liars without honour who don’t perform to their own standards integrity.

Oh, so they're human. Goodness, what a shock.

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:20:32 +1300 Kevin McCready https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371640#post371640 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371640#post371640 positive contribution of the NZ PRT to the Bamyan Province.

Scene of the Crime chapter of Hager/Stephenson shows the absurdity or this and documents NZDF people saying so. Our presence there was for purely political reasons (flying flag with USA) and to blood the SAS who hadn't seen combat for…

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:17:04 +1300 Kevin McCready https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371639#post371639 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371639#post371639 Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:12:30 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371638#post371638 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371638#post371638 We can choose to become involved or not but it's a choice we have to make. Not becoming involved doesn't necessarily absolve us of moral responsibility. And determining just who is "other" might not be straight foward.

For me the issue is not that we become involved but rather that…

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:10:41 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371636#post371636 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371636#post371636 I was disappointed with Guyon saying the SAS was a respected institution.

Within the military, nationally and internationally, they are absolutely respected. Any objective assessment of their capability puts them on par with any other special operations force in the world. You may disagree with their ethos, and you clearly…

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 10:58:28 +1300 Matthew Poole https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371634#post371634 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371634#post371634 The high command of the New Zealand military, they argue, is increasingly dominated by former SAS officers: a tiny but highly influential component of the overall organisation.

They’re not wrong.

Lieutenant General Keating, Chief of Defence Force, did three stints with NZSAS, including as Commanding Officer.

Major General Kelly, [[http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/about-us/key-personnel/ca.htm|Chief…

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 10:49:12 +1300 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371633#post371633 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371633#post371633 I just find the phrase other people's wars a bit anachronistic.

We live in an interconnected world, we are a member of the international community via the UN and other arrangements, we have people living in NZ from all parts of the world.

We can choose to become involved or…

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 10:14:12 +1300 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371630#post371630 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371630#post371630 Barry Soper is a ‘good ol’ National boy’ … see:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11823728

“Nicky Hager adept at whipping up media frenzy” – could be paraphrased as “Nicky Hager – undemining small boys’ faith in their betters since 2002.”

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:58:44 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371628#post371628 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371628#post371628 Barry Soper is a 'good ol' National boy' and ignores the fact that Wayne Mapp has confirmed civilian deaths (ie gone beyond the 'may have been civilian casualties' report Soper acknowledges)
He also can't resist spelling Nicky Hager's name as 'Hagar' at least once – oh how they laughed in…

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:33:12 +1300 Kevin McCready https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371627#post371627 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371627#post371627 Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:15:38 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371626#post371626 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371626#post371626 I’m not sure what’s meant by “other people’s war”.
see:
http://www.nickyhager.info/other-peoples-wars/

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:08:35 +1300 James Littlewood* https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371625#post371625 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371625#post371625 Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:04:24 +1300 Euan Mason https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371622#post371622 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371622#post371622 "Does "other people's war" mean no one in NZ cares or has any involvement?"

No. Our politicians tell us we send trained killers to help build infrastructure. They know that the NZ public would largely reject the idea of going in with guns blazing at civilians because an ally thinks…

]]> Thu, 23 Mar 2017 04:40:02 +1300 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371618#post371618 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371618#post371618 Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:31:47 +1300 simon g https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371617#post371617 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371617#post371617 Wed, 22 Mar 2017 19:08:44 +1300 Tinakori https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371616#post371616 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371616#post371616 Wed, 22 Mar 2017 19:04:52 +1300 mark taslov https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371612#post371612 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371612#post371612 The old imperialist feminism angle.

Imperialist feminism and liberalism

As several Third World Feminists have argued, a historical weakness of liberal feminism in the West has been its racist, patronizing attitude towards women of color who have been seen less as allies/agents and more as victims in need of rescue.

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:47:30 +1300 Neil https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371611#post371611 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371611#post371611 I think Danyl seriously underestimates the positive contribution of the NZ PRT to the Bamyan Province.

It’s unlike there would be a woman governor now or as much infrastructure if we hadn’t been there.

I’m not sure what’s meant by “other people’s war”.

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:34:06 +1300 Bruce Ward https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371610#post371610 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371610#post371610 As long as warriors remain under civilian control ...
Is not the question 'Are they still really under civilian control?' one that needs to be asked, and answered, in response to the book?
It seems there is a distinct possibility that the warriors have not been telling the whole truth,…

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:25:13 +1300 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371608#post371608 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371608#post371608 its positive impact is potentially disproportionate to its size.As is its negative impact. ]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:12:48 +1300 Jason Kemp https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371607#post371607 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371607#post371607 Wed, 22 Mar 2017 17:08:49 +1300 Tinakori https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371606#post371606 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371606#post371606 Wed, 22 Mar 2017 16:57:16 +1300 Kevin McCready https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371604#post371604 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371604#post371604 Maybe the SAS guy I met was a bad egg. But if he's representative, the cultural problem which Danyl alludes to ("almost comic obsession among defence officials to “get in on the game” and engage in combat operations") runs much deeper.

The SAS fellow I met was a believer in…

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 16:05:33 +1300 william blake https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371601#post371601 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371601#post371601 The response to Nicky and John’s book is sad, predictable and has become part of the case studies these journalists have presented us with.

Unfortunately with each episode the stakes get higher. John being harassed and threatened by the military and government for his Metro article, Nicky being harassed by…

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 15:20:30 +1300 Carol Stewart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371599#post371599 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371599#post371599 Wed, 22 Mar 2017 15:19:32 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371596#post371596 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371596#post371596 The Spinoff has a really interesting review of Hit and Run by speed-reading Danyl Mclauchlan. For example:

The last chapter of the book raises a deeper issue. It’s obviously based on interviews with disenchanted defence staff, who think that the ultimate cause of the raid is a change in the…

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 15:04:21 +1300 Katharine Moody https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371594#post371594 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371594#post371594 Wed, 22 Mar 2017 14:51:08 +1300 bob daktari https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371593#post371593 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371593#post371593 Wed, 22 Mar 2017 14:33:55 +1300 Katharine Moody https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371592#post371592 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371592#post371592 At last…someone acknowledging the impact if this on the people who were actually there. Well said Katharine

Had a Vietnam vet boyfriend back in the States in the late 70s – came to know the pain and the anguish he suffered intimately. Hence, the term regretful respect – I am…

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 14:11:36 +1300 Bart Janssen https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371591#post371591 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371591#post371591 Quoting from Danyl Mclauchlan's review of the book ...when the inevitable moral compromises, blunders, pointless atrocities and general horrors of warfare unfold

My father fought in WW2, I know almost nothing of what he experienced because I don't think he was ever capable of really describing it. But I got…

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 14:03:22 +1300 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371589#post371589 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371589#post371589 Andrew Geddis has written a compelling piece on Pundit.

Think of a three-year-old girl. Maybe she’s your daughter. Maybe she’s your niece. Maybe she’s your friend’s child. But think of her.

Now think of her screaming in terror as her mother carries her from her home while helicopters pour 30mm…

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:21:04 +1300 Paula Browning https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371588#post371588 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371588#post371588 This must be absolutely awful for those individuals who were there and who know the truth. Regardless what happened I feel sadness along with a regretful respect for every one of them. War is horrid – more innocents are killed than perpetrators – that is an indisputable fact.

At last…someone…

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 12:33:54 +1300 bob daktari https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371587#post371587 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371587#post371587 and as if on cue Brownlee returns from Iraq proposing we continue to engage in other peoples wars

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11823128

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 12:32:08 +1300 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371586#post371586 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371586#post371586 the new chief of the Defence Force is implicitly threatening to sue.

And as Idiot/Savant tweets:

by saying #HitandRunNZ harms NZ's international reputation, NZDF chief is essentially asking GCSB to spy on authors

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 12:31:28 +1300 Katharine Moody https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371585#post371585 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371585#post371585 This must be absolutely awful for those individuals who were there and who know the truth. Regardless what happened I feel sadness along with a regretful respect for every one of them. War is horrid – more innocents are killed than perpetrators – that is an indisputable fact.

We should…

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 12:22:25 +1300 Stephen R https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371584#post371584 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371584#post371584 If an electorate MP leaves parliament closer than x months from an election, they don't have to run a bye-election because there would be not much point – they'd hardly get a result before the actual election.

That would of course, mean that National lost some of it's majority, but…

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 12:05:44 +1300 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371583#post371583 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371583#post371583 And actually it doesn’t worry me anyway, because I’m retired.
'Someone else's problem' seems to be the prevailing attitude, or the likes of Bennett who is happy as long as someone else in the party tells her to not worry about it.
I'm sure Brownlee's bluster will be of epic…

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 11:56:34 +1300 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371581#post371581 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371581#post371581 And the new chief of the Defence Force is implicitly threatening to sue.

Guys, have we not been through this already? And it cost us a lot of money last time.

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 11:36:50 +1300 Public Address https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371580#post371580 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-the-long-road-to-hit-and-run/?p=371580#post371580 Discussion from blog post.

]]> Wed, 22 Mar 2017 11:36:49 +1300