Surely that's the problem? Slater won't divulge the name so they have no-one to subpoena. I don't think you can subpoena someone on the suspician that they may have stolen your property,…

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2006/0069/latest/DLM393681.html

Form what I understand of this case from reports on the pleadings of both parties – Slater based his "published material", from a hard drive (stolen) that belonged to Blomfield's and was given to…

Quite possibly. But such decision would still rule on the matter of WO being a news site.…

Given that Blackie ruled that Slater wasn’t entitled to confidentiality of sources because he’s not a journalist,…

Will it be quite so definitive? Have we seen the construction of the appeal? I'd hope that the High Court would avoid making a broad judgment given the facts…

"Beware of whores who say they don't want money.
What they mean is they want MORE money, much more money"

(William S Burroughs, from "Words of Advice for Young People")

I consider the appeal judgment won’t have a long reach or wide application.

The appeal judgement, depending on what it is, will only create precedent that extends to defamation proceedings involving published material that…

Yeah, that’s what he said and I thought the context was clear, and Slater’s subsequent statements…

Think RB knows how he meant the question to be interpreted.
Think WOCS answered how he believes that taking money to spread someone else's words that he just…

I can respect that position as well.

I think it's evident that even Slater…

I'm sorry you feel that way. All I was saying was that when I saw the Media3 interview with Whale, I…

and those muted gasps from the audience – that's more than a few of us there that night realising exactly what Slater was saying. Wasn't just the host who had the "did he really say that?" moment.

Bloody journos. :)

Yeah, but how are you going to prove that, if your evidence IS what XYZ told you or gave you?…

How about the series of posts on the Azor?

He says he asked for one. They gave him one and then he blogged on it. They even gave him some to give away. I got one of them. I…

Oh, FFS, Dexter. It would be really nice if the freedoms we enjoy had been won — and defended — by saintly people…

I didn't see it as a big deal either , until I quoted RB on Whaleoil , which prompted both a denial and an accusation that I…

no. Truth is about the claim. If I claim, based on something XYZ told me, that BenWilson is also Redbaiter, it doesn't…

Since it's only a district court judgement it couldn't create a precedent anyway, not even for other district court judges. It's the outcome of the appeal which will create a precedent, one way or the…

I quoted that on Whaleoil , ( pointless I know , I might have better luck quoting Gandhi to Neonazis) . First response from Slater was to…

Well, at least "until his contempt is purged".

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Decision-of-CS-Blackie-26_9_2013-1.pdf

The decision re the disclosure rests on the facts of this particular case and has regard to the defence being run by Slater.

If you look at [9] of the judgment – Slater has admitted the publication of the material and admits, in some…

It's a pretty blurry distinction. If that claim is upheld, you have different rights. But yes, the law changes probably shouldn't confer the power…

The Law Commission's definition of news media for the purposes of legal recognition had four elements: the publication of news, information and opinion of current value; its dissemination to a public audience; publication must be regular; and the publisher must be accountable to a code of ethics…

I don’t take Judge Blackie to be saying that blogs aren’t journalism because they are blogs. I read his quote from the Law Commission’s report as a statement that some people don’t adhere to…

They could lie, of course. If found out, then it becomes perjury, and they'd wind up in jail for quite a long time. (This happened, in reverse,…

Given that Slater has admitted the practice, it's not irrelevant. If Slater was simply acting as a paid proxy for Blomfield's former business partner, it would certainly…

Now I can sympathize with Russell Brown with his call The judge is not helping, because as he points out he is one of the relatively untainted. We…

Sure, but perfection is an impossible ask of…

Yes, a metric like that is too much of a blunt object. I'd think that membership to a professional body that can revoke your license to be protected by them would work better. You'd still be allowed to blog outside…

Sorry, if we’re going to apply the Blackie Standard let’s do it consistently and in…

But three times per year per journalist would still be quite a lot of fuck-ups aggregated across dozens of journalists in a big newsroom. Could be a retraction a week without…

and just as a reminder: Whaleoil profile from 2009!
(Internet Warrior! Hah! more like worry!)

Back at the office, a Christchurch reader alerts him to a radio appearance by…

...and the publisher must be accountable to a code of ethics and a complaint process.

I'm going to say three times in any one calendar year. I'm not allowed to fuck up that often.

Slater wants to take on the Judicial system on the Monday and is surprised it turns and bites him on the arse by Wednesday, w.o.b.f....

Well, Ian, find me a tabloid scumbag who won’t argue until the heat death of the universe that that fits them like a bespoke Saville Row…

Agreed.

One mans abusive unprofessional dickhead is another man's....?

Nope. Got nothing.

I think that the subjectivity element of the argument is troubling... plus…

That seems entirely reasonable.

Sure. Mostly, I agree. Ultimately, though it might be in all our interests that he does appeal, even allowing for the fact that his is an hypocritical argument, so that we get a…

Yes I can see the difference.

I was rather clumsily trying to respond to the idea that he shouldn't (morally) be allowed to argue whatever point suits him in the courts – it's the nature of an adverserial system that he's pretty much obliged to – with about…

It's more the judge's reasoning I'm alarmed about. If he'd used a better argument to uphold the disclosure order I wouldn't have much to say.

Protection of sources applies to journalism in news media.

The concepts are not identical – publication is making content available to the public, and Slater was convicted of violating name suppression for publishing the identity of rape victims…

Keir, I think you do I/S a disservice here.

And if he lost that argument, shouldn’t he win this one?

I suspect you know the answer is no –…

Was his previous argument successful?

And if he lost that argument, shouldn't he win…

People who don't read Slater have, I think, this image of a far right ideologue, with, perhaps, a tendency towards extremity of speech. (A sort of mirror image of I/S, but more evil…

Amusing.

Ta for the correction. So Slater is pushing the proverbial uphill!

If true, then that isn't journalism.

It would be reasonable for Slater…

There's an awful lot of subjectivity in 'responsible" and "relevant" however .

If a defendant wants to claim truth as a defence then the onus is…

This.

You haven't read the DomPost recently then...

I would think that also, if one is defending a libel action based on the defense of truthfulness, one would be unlikely to win unless the sources who provided…

It's actually the other way round. If a defendant wants to claim truth as a defence then…

How much advertorial stops a newspaper being news?

How many PR-provided angles prevent an article being called news?

Which currently-existing news organisation…

Although journalists and their publications are not infrequently sued for defamation. Even if the court on appeal decides that…

Can you link it?

Toss in being convicted for contempt after breaching a suppression order, too, which is something that "real" media treats as a third-rail issue. Slater has form…

I'd think, therefore, that the informant's opinion and belief also should be considered. Presumably the person who…

I get the point your making, and haven't read the LC report or the judgment, however I can't…

Nevertheless, we can allow ourselves just a pinch of of schadenfraude...?

There is an interesting discussion about this going on over at the Kiwi Journalist blog..

That's an example of where it might be extremely relevant to discover Whale's sources. He's admitted to taking PR money to run certain lines on his blog, which would seem to undermine his claims to media protections.

Yes, I think that would be a more productive path to take.

Maybe make the test of journalism apply to the article in question, not to the writer or publication's body of work?

I think he thinks that journalists are fine. The concern is with churnalists, and repeaters, people who give journalists a bad name :-)

He's kinda the Fox news of the NZ blogosphere, distasteful but needed.

Appearing on Firstline this morning, media lawyer Steven Price said the judge's reasoning was not clear.

"He does cite an old Law Commission issues paper that says bloggers are highly partisan and offensive and abusive, and that they're really not accountable to anyone. What…

Maybe he's more a public relations type?

Yes. Sir Roger Douglas was extremely unhappy.

Was it concerning the doco "For the Public Good"?

It seems especially unfair that any "journalist" republishing wire pieces and industry PR in a newspaper will have those same protections, purely because of their publisher.

How can their recommendations be used in deciding a court case without…

Just this.