Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: The good guys

Jon Briggs

Thu, 05 Nov 2015 14:29:06 +1300

1:10 well spent. Or even 2:20, 3:30, ...

Richard Wain

Thu, 05 Nov 2015 14:25:09 +1300

But it’s a world away from the image that shadowed him for years after he switched to rugby (and then, perplexingly, switched back to the NRL for a season)

Great piece Russell, but SBW played 2013 and 2014 for the Roosters inbetween Chiefs/All Blacks stints. Now off to sevens, hopefully…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 05 Nov 2015 10:45:22 +1300

The modern form of that particular sledge might be:
'Form, or tears!'

Cheika may have got Coach of the Year for improving a team...
Hansen just did what he's always done and went for constancy and consistency ...
..and the best.

llew40

Thu, 05 Nov 2015 08:42:46 +1300

Regarding the sledge, it's genius.

Completely agree. No profanity needed. No boorishness. Like all great sledges its based on a fundamental truth. Just a perfectly timed skewer into the heart of NZ rugby fan insecurity, that made the 'choker' tag weigh that little more heavily on the fan psyche. If…

chris

Thu, 05 Nov 2015 03:10:21 +1300

it’s genius.

Totally, the euphoria of two world cup victories hasn’t dulled it. Wrongly ascribed or minced, it might just outlive him. Regardless of the fans' desired effect, bottling that moment and these attempts to hurl it back – however long after – as a trans-Tasman rival I imagine it's…

Paul Williams

Thu, 05 Nov 2015 00:15:37 +1300

Gregan was actually good value on World Cup Weekly along with Jeff Wilson and Joel Stransky during the tournament. It was the most watchable of a surfeit of shows.

Regarding the sledge, it's genius.

As to Gregan's character, I don't know him at all, but I'm happy to judge him…

Russell Brown

Wed, 04 Nov 2015 22:10:43 +1300

I could watch this on a loop all day. Not normally a fan of Marshall but love how he just loses it at the end when Barrett crosses the line

Thanks! Kinda fun to hear the three different commentaries.

Russell Brown

Wed, 04 Nov 2015 22:08:34 +1300

That’s fine, Gregan got to hear it live and in stereo at the end of the semi final, 2011.

Gregan was actually good value on World Cup Weekly along with Jeff Wilson and Joel Stransky during the tournament. It was the most watchable of a surfeit of shows.

BlairMacca

Wed, 04 Nov 2015 21:09:31 +1300

I could watch this on a loop all day. Not normally a fan of Marshall but love how he just loses it at the end when Barrett crosses the line https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLNSmpWYLfU

chris

Wed, 04 Nov 2015 20:34:25 +1300

Yeah I don’t know if it’s anything to aspire to, it’s either drunken Chinese whispers or we’ve switched countries, under this piece:

World media ??? That’ll be all except Australian rags that continually wrote insults about the AB’s. To the Daily Telegraph; FOUR MORE YEARS, to Genia; FOUR MORE YEARS.…

Nick Hanson

Wed, 04 Nov 2015 19:05:09 +1300

That's fine, Gregan got to hear it live and in stereo at the end of the semi final, 2011. And yes it definitely did make it's mark when he said it in 2003, not because it was an effective sledge, but because it was gratuitous, (said as it was when…

Russell Brown

Wed, 04 Nov 2015 12:42:52 +1300

The choice of venue sounds completely incongruous and slightly weird – perhaps there just wasn’t much in the way of ‘discreet’ venue hire.

The owner is Simon Warr, a New Zealander and former rugby player, old friends with McCaw.

Which explains why the club's private room is called [[http://www.fluidlondon.co.uk/venue/west_end/platinum_lace_gentlemens_club_w1d|the Koru…

George Darroch

Wed, 04 Nov 2015 12:39:18 +1300

It’s one of THE celebrity venues of choice in London, apparently. Does seem a bit weird, but there you go.

The more you know.

Peter Darlington

Wed, 04 Nov 2015 12:24:52 +1300

The choice of venue sounds completely incongruous and slightly weird – perhaps there just wasn’t much in the way of ‘discreet’ venue hire.

It's one of THE celebrity venues of choice in London, apparently. Does seem a bit weird, but there you go.

George Darroch

Wed, 04 Nov 2015 10:55:59 +1300

Wait, what…?

You are in central London and you’ve just won the World Cup and cleaned up at the World Rugby Awards: where do you go to celebrate?

Members of the victorious team were photographed emerging blear-eyed and worse for wear from the back door of Platinum Lace strip club,…

chris

Wed, 04 Nov 2015 10:37:13 +1300

And the internets are filled with comments from gloating, boorish kiwi fans banging on

Straight. What is clear is that Gregan sure struck a nerve with his “four more years” burn way back when. Somehow the phrase doesn’t have quite the same level of pizzazz when recycled by commentators under…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 21:50:59 +1300

Imagine how good the Black Ferns could be if they had the pool of talent and resources that men’s rugby has.

It looks to me like being on the women's Sevens circuit is helping, actually. But

I didn't mean to sound so dismissive above, sorry. It's worth talking about. And…

Lilith __

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 21:36:49 +1300

I watch the Black Ferns, but not many other people do. And it’s good, but it it’s not as exciting to watch. The strength, skill, speed and intensity are nothing like those in men’s international rugby. To be honest, they’d probably be beaten by a NZ Schools team.

pro team…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:21:28 +1300

Perceived TV audience ratings (and media bidding wars, and so perceived value by media bosses, who happen mostly to be male)?

See above. Moving to pay TV has decimated netball's TV audience.

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:19:26 +1300

I’m glad the women in the men’s rugby crew are being recognised. But it’s still men’s rugby. And women may enjoy watching it, but they don’t get much recognition when they play it.

I watch the Black Ferns, but not many other people do. And it's good, but it it's…

linger

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:14:33 +1300

(Meanwhile...)
Key: Maaaaate! MAAAAAAATE!
SBW: Ya need any help getting him off, Richie?
Richie: Nah, he seems to be doing that for himself…

Rosemary McDonald

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 20:03:25 +1300

with the Ferns winning the game but losing the cup by a nose. Almost zero media coverage

Ah...but do you remember the media coverage for netball when A Certain Company wanted to put their brand logo on the seat of the players' uniform pants?

Said it all, really.

Lilith __

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 19:44:00 +1300

Just by the way, the New Zealand Women's Rugby team won the Women's Rugby World Cup four times in a row (1998, 2002, 2006, 2010).

Only another 2 to go, All Blacks.

linger

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 19:37:22 +1300

But the gender of the politician is relevant, because Key is desperately keen to be seen as a conservative blokey bloke, accepted by undeniably blokey blokes — hence his creepy fawning over the alpha male role models. Female sporting role models, however successful, can’t have the same brand value for…

Lilith __

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 18:49:49 +1300

Fawning politicians? I doubt it.

Even John Key probably would realise that trying to get into the Ferns’ changing rooms after the game might come across as a little creepy … wouldn’t he?

Because it’s not creepy the way he fawns on Richie McCaw? That's not really the point, though.…

linger

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 18:44:52 +1300

Fawning politicians? I doubt it.Even John Key probably would realise that trying to get into the Ferns' changing rooms after the game might come across as a little creepy ... wouldn't he?

Lilith __

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 18:36:36 +1300

I’d like to know more about them. I recall it being a pretty big deal when Jane Dent was the All Blacks’ comms manager – basically the voice of the team – in the 90s. And of course there’s Melody Robinson.

The person whose opinion I respect about rugby pretty…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 16:02:27 +1300

NZ crowds would boo

Interesting isn’t it that the team behaves so much better than our crowds.

That's not quite it. Drop goals (and more particularly attempted drop goals) were booed because they were seen as negative play. Now that they win us world cup final matches, drop goals are…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 15:55:36 +1300

As one who takes a desultory interest in rugby at best – just tell me the final score – I have watched with interest how manly all this is.

The thing that really brought a lump to my throat at the end was seeing the women who were part of…

st ephen

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 15:33:16 +1300

Interesting isn’t it that the team behaves so much better than our crowds.
And the internets are filled with comments from gloating, boorish kiwi fans banging on about the outstanding humility of the ABs. It isn't rubbing off, guys.

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 14:53:33 +1300

And now it transpires that Beauden Barrett committed a wonderful act of generosity too.

Bart Janssen

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 13:45:14 +1300

his measured and balanced post

I don't think ramming the post 4 feet into the ground counts as balanced :P

Bart Janssen

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 13:44:16 +1300

NZ crowds would boo

Interesting isn't it that the team behaves so much better than our crowds.

Howard Edwards

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 12:24:02 +1300

For me one of the biggest differences between the teams of 2011 and 2015 was having an accurate reliable goalkicker. In 2011 the top three first fives (Carter, Cruden, Slade) were also the most reliable goalkickers but all were injured at some point. Piri Weepu was used in the quarterfinal…

Peter Darlington

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 11:33:08 +1300

As one who takes a desultory interest in rugby at best – just tell me the final score – I have watched with interest how manly all this is.

The thing that really brought a lump to my throat at the end was seeing the women who were part of…

Bart Janssen

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 10:57:19 +1300

And I think, this, above all else, is the outcome of good leadership.

Yes but – that doesn't take away from the effort the actual players have made to follow that lead. I get that someone needs to stand up and say "this is how we will behave" but there…

Abbie

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 10:44:30 +1300

As one who takes a desultory interest in rugby at best – just tell me the final score – I have watched with interest how manly all this is. And look at the commenters on this thread – almost entirely male. I am not saying that NO women take an…

llew40

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 10:16:51 +1300

Almost without us noticing, that seems to have completely changed.

And I think, this, above all else, is the outcome of good leadership. And shared leadership that is devolved from Steve Hansen down. I've never seen a more impressive sporting interview than the Nation interview with Steve Hansen – it…

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 10:14:41 +1300

a beautifully measured and balanced post Russell
...another early adopter, Sir Colin Meads
a long time stringer, 'opines' above with his measured and balanced post!

< pic source >

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 10:07:06 +1300

That is impressive when you remember just how young some of them are, both in age and in life experience, going from school to professional rugby does not give you much chance to learn much about the world or yourself.

And they're subject to all the temptations and pressures of…

Alfie

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 10:03:06 +1300

I think it might have been something to do with media over-kill and sycophantic politicians this time around.

Tremain – you're not the only one Geoff.

Nice piece Russell.

Bart Janssen

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 09:25:15 +1300

I'll say it again here, a beautifully measured and balanced post Russell.

For me the thing about the way this team has behaved is the most impressive, on and off the field they are adults. They have fun, they are silly at times, but they treat their job responsibly, real…

Peter Darlington

Tue, 03 Nov 2015 08:37:37 +1300

The Daily Mail article, instead of just the NZ Herald edit, actually has an excellent array of images from the game as well.

I can't stand the Daily Mail, but they do better sports images than pretty much any other online media.

tim kong

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 23:05:23 +1300

Aha. This makes sense now.
Green bottles I was thinking Steinlager – but you're correct – Heineken would be the tournament sponsor.

And yes, less prosaic than I imagined. :)

Al C

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 22:36:45 +1300

I think it probably is a planned detail but, while I'd like to think the best of them, it's most likely the more prosaic reason that they weren't drinking their sponsors product (Steinlager) but instead that of the tournament sponsor (Heineken) as required by the tournament rules.

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 21:56:24 +1300

Peter Malcouronne has posted a North & South essay he wrote about Sonny Bill. He both notes some interesting parallels with Ali and scorns SBW's boxing ambitions.

Conrad Heine

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 21:18:32 +1300

It was cool to see Williams et al being so accommodating, but not so much to read his later comments about how he’d have happily given the guy a hiding.

Agreed there. SBW's generosity is undeniable, but he had time to think before that haughty comment. Guy was doing his…

Carl Horsley

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 21:14:06 +1300

I understand John Key wanting to align himself with the All Blacks at every chance but wonder if it is their "winners" label he sees rather than any alignment with their values. Their success seems to have been formed on building a strong team ethos, leadership that allows everyone to…

nzlemming

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:57:19 +1300

Very interesting interview with Dan Carter (lifted from the Daily Mail!), especially the parts about focus. And also why he kicked his last ever test goal with his right foot ...

I particularly liked
'That's what I love about rugby. Working alongside your mates, the sacrifice they put in that…

Tim Croft

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:48:40 +1300

Genuine question (for the sponsor's product), is it ever served other than at weddings and work functions?

I've actually never seen anyone buy it in a supermarket.

Martin Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:43:36 +1300

Now if they could only keep JK out of the changing room. Still, he did seem to get the polite brush off this time, from the little clip I saw.

tim kong

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:31:38 +1300

The Daily Mail article, instead of just the NZ Herald edit, actually has an excellent array of images from the game as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3299500/DAN-CARTER-INTERVIEW-Blacks-Rugby-World-Cup-final-hero-going-war-mates-ribbed-right-footed-conversion-dream-finish-incredible-career.html

tim kong

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:30:04 +1300

Was considering the alcohol angle – and I can appreciate the tension between booze culture, and the commercial realities.

But realised as I was looking across some instagram and video feeds, that the ABs when they have a beer in their hand, are never photographed with the label of the…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:16:54 +1300

I think he deserved it. He has worked wonders with Deans’ leftovers. Now he needs to be a little more gracious in the post-match interview – it’s not just the players who are supposed to be professional. Stephen Moore (who I’ve never had much time for but now do) pissed…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 20:13:00 +1300

The SBW and the kid story hits Vice.

It's safe to say that handsome-pants Sonny Bill Williams—winner of two NRL premierships, a boxing title, and now two rugby World Cups—is actually the man who has it all. The man simply owns. And what do you do when you have it…

nzlemming

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 19:50:41 +1300

The All Blacks have won everything at the World Rugby Awards – with the exception of coach of the year, which went to Michael Cheika. Fair enough, really – he's done wonders with that team in a year.

I think he deserved it. He has worked wonders with Deans' leftovers.…

Soon Lee

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 19:44:35 +1300

The All Blacks post-match celebration includes the singing of the Bedpost advertisement jingle (~33 seconds in)?

Mind. Blown.

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 19:32:01 +1300

One area where there is definitely some room for improvement is in the selection of post-match celebration music

Don't you go Belieber-shaming now.

AndrewJ

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 19:22:53 +1300

One area where there is definitely some room for improvement is in the selection of post-match celebration music
http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-union/rugby-world-cup/rugby-world-cup-final-2015-all-blacks-celebrate-by-dancing-to-justin-bieber-song-20151031-gknv7d.html

Lucy Stewart

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 17:20:59 +1300

I like Hansen’s approach to players’ drinking. In the past we’ve lurched from booziness to alcohol bans, which only serve to make it seem more of a problem. Hansen basically said: “If you want to have a beer, have a beer. But remember your responsibilities.”

Re: the last part, it…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 16:07:11 +1300

Very interesting interview with Dan Carter (lifted from the Daily Mail!), especially the parts about focus. And also why he kicked his last ever test goal with his right foot ...

izogi

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 15:47:51 +1300

The other was that the ‘Supervisor’, which is the word that was on the security guards jacket, seems to have watched way too many such tackles in news reports, what the hell was he thinking he would achieve with such an aggressive intervention on a kid. I imagine his life…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 15:45:04 +1300

This is interesting too: Sam Whitelock on his recovery routine – which includes getting on an exercycle after the game:

"First of all making sure you get rehydrated, take on some food, pretty much get yourself back to a normal state as soon as possible,” he said.

“Any niggles you…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 15:27:12 +1300

They've also pretty much cut out sugar, an interview with their nutritionist reveals. Which makes them a weird fit for Coca-Cola's sugar-water brand Powerade, but the commercial reality remains.

That is fascinating.

Raymond A Francis

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 15:22:03 +1300

Nicely written Russell
I like to think there is an echo of small town New Zealand in the actions of SBW and the rest of the All Blacks in dealing with a young boy's rush into the field
But then being a small town boy, I would say that
Whatever,…

Jason Kemp

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 14:18:38 +1300

More on the low sugar vibe in the team here

“The movie ‘The Sugar Film’ has influenced the players quite a lot I think. Most of the guys now understand that we need to get the sugar out. We’ve come a long way. I would say we are in a…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 14:01:03 +1300

But it would be good if we don't end up with 'their' silver fern on any new flag, that would only muddy the waters further...

Geoff Lealand

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 14:00:21 +1300

RWC 2015 was great but the final on Sunday morning left me very pleased rather than overwhelmed, which was the experience of the 2011 final. Curiously, the Japan vs South Africa encounter was more thrilling. I think it might have been something to do with media over-kill and sycophantic politicians…

George Darroch

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 13:50:25 +1300

Steinlager continues to buy its way in, as it has done since 1986, and we get inflicted with bullshit nonsense like this attempt to claim the All Blacks’ virtues for a nondescript commercial lager.

They've also pretty much cut out sugar, an interview with their nutritionist reveals. Which makes them…

linger

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 13:28:03 +1300

this team is not really a walking advertisement for boozy dickheads Assuming that team discipline remains in place, reckon there's any chance that changed relationship with alcohol could also filter down to rugby supporters? Or will the sponsor ultimately win on the day?

llew40

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 13:15:17 +1300

The management have said numerous times that they saw the old boozing culture as toxic and after it came to a head on one South Africa tour early in Graham Henry's tenure, set-out systematically to build a better environment. Notwithstanding the commercial demands of working with sponsors, I think its…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 13:05:12 +1300

Bruce Hopkins

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 13:00:01 +1300

Superb read, thanks Russell and totally concur with your take on this.
I did have a couple of reactive thoughts when seeing footage o this incident These are rendered almost irrelevant by the actions of Sonny Bill, Liam & Steve.
However I did think that even though he is young Charlie…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 12:46:21 +1300

I don’t see significant change of the brand re alcohol.

Steinlager continues to buy its way in, as it has done since 1986, and we get inflicted with bullshit nonsense like this attempt to claim the All Blacks’ virtues for a nondescript commercial lager.

But in the dressing room after the…

Paul Williams

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 12:42:37 +1300

Most notably, he apologised to those he’d hurt and let down, rather than trying to make himself look like a victim.

Yes. Savea. That's a change too. The reflexsive non-apology shits-me-to-tears! It's nice being a Kiwi in Australia for the moment I might add.

Kevin McCready

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 12:33:17 +1300

I don't see significant change of the brand re alcohol. http://kmccready.wordpress.com/2014/04/24/alcoholism/

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 12:30:33 +1300

Did he mean predecessor?

Yes :-)

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 12:29:37 +1300

I do recall one incident involving one member of the team that I sincerely hope was appropriately dealt with.

Julian Savea? He completed a police diversion programme and seemed genuinely remorseful. Most notably, he apologised to those he'd hurt and let down, rather than trying to make himself look like…

Eediot

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 12:22:40 +1300

Did he mean predecessor?

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 12:21:17 +1300

Hansen, who is as phlegmatic as his successor

Eh? Who’s next?

Ha! Let me fix that ...

Jason Kemp

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 12:19:29 +1300

I don’t generally watch sports at all. For too long I think rugby and the like has been oversold to the general population when actual interest has declined. I’m fine with people enjoying sports ball but it is great when a “magic moment” like the SBW one actually happens.

Lydia…

simon g

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 12:10:45 +1300

Yes, I pretty much agree with Russell's post and comments since. I was wrong about Hansen too – he seemed like an extra-grumpy Griz Wylie, when he was Henry's assistant. Now I find him much more likeable than his predecessor, genuinely indifferent to the media spotlight, a sort of anti-Mourinho…

linger

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 12:06:56 +1300

Hansen, who is as phlegmatic as his successorEh? Who's next?

Paul Williams

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 12:01:30 +1300

Russell, your writing entirely captures my feelings about this team. If these be our heros, they appear ok. In fact, they appear a thoroughly decent collection of individuals who happen to be, also, a remarkable team. I do recall one incident involving one member of the team that I sincerely…

Paul Brislen

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:53:50 +1300

One of the TV commentators (I forget who) talked a lot about Keven Mealamu as one of the old guard, whose role off the field in creating the culture has been as important if not more so than his role on the field.

He said something about new players having…

BlairMacca

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:52:34 +1300

My earliest rugby memory was the 87 world cup which hooked me and set a rather high bar for the All Blacks. Going through the 90's and early to mid 2000s its fair to say my confidence in the All Blacks was shattered on a number of occasions: having an…

Shaun Lott

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:44:23 +1300

A national team that can the best in the world at something, by such a large margin, and be the subject of such hype, and still be so obviously just regular decent guys: that surely deserves our respect. It's clear why they inspire national pride, in all the best ways.…

Peter Darlington

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:41:44 +1300

They have done some amazing things within the team after the nightmare of the Mitchell/Deans era a decade ago. I have to totally eat humble pie as regards Hansen, I thought he was a monosyllabic mumbler who would take the team backwards post the 2011 RWC. How wrong I was,…

George Darroch

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:39:46 +1300

The postscript to the SBW video comes with this RadioNZ story about him being given a second medal.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/sport/288596/sonny-bill-williams-given-second-winners-medal

And isn't it a richly illustrated story, with pictures, video, and Twitter (see, it is good for something!). I like where RadioNZ appear to be going.

Mark Graham

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:30:25 +1300

Great insight Russ. A will to win but not at the expense of dignity and decency. I like it.

James Littlewood*

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:29:47 +1300

Thanks RB. As a non-rugger type, I find this kind of helpful in explaining certain aspects of the national obsession. Do I detect a hint of the apologist between these lines?

And yet, interesting contrast with Hayden Green's comment a couple of weeks ago that this would be the first…

Public Address

Mon, 02 Nov 2015 11:29:47 +1300

Discussion from blog post.