Gotta be carefull there.

I did that once and forgot I shud start slow. It started with total euphoria then totally…

the first approach to depression should be attention to the state of the person's endocrine function, nutritional status ... etc ...

You might well think so, but, I spent three years under the misdiagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome, taking numerous medications which made no difference, injecting myself with B12, while…

I can go off meds for up to six months at a time but when I start not coping I can go back on them to mediate the extremes. They help me live my life when stress pushes me over the edge.

Spooky, dude. That's the exact line my alcoholic…

Actually doctors love them, but for a placebo to be truly effective you can't *know* it's a placebo.

I tried to get at this in an earlier post. This analysis had a huge placebo response; bigger than expected. So there may be something about the placebo/control arms that…

– Studies have found that bandaids only aid in healing for people that actually have a wound. If you just have a tiny scratch, a bandaid is no better than a placebo. OMG…

I haven't seen it traillered if it is going to be repeated here. I shall keep an eye out though.

or UK TeeVee?

(CCBT)
i really like that this is designed to go along side medical support, from GPS or nurses

further to what stephen said,

there are as many forms of therapy as there are drugs, and some forms of therapy are about as useful as a placebo.

some forms of counseling, can in fact be do more harm than good, or even…

Nope. Much to the annoyance of the psychoanalysts, it looks like the long let's-talk-about-your-childhood-trauma stuff doesn't do anything easily measurable, but CBT and related approaches do.

Placebo party anyone?

Your placebo or mine?

Placebo party anyone?

A friend in need's a friend indeed!

You'd guess that, but certain approaches, eg Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, in fact do seem to as effective as drugs (and even more effective when combined with them).

Honestly. You might as well…

My mate used to sell mixed herbs as dope & his mums laxatives as speed at school. All accounts came back that it was good shit.

Pun intended, I hope.

Yes, serotonin has complex actions in the brain, but that does not in and of itself mean that SSRIs don't, in part, work via…

My mate used to sell mixed herbs as dope & his mums laxatives as speed at school. All accounts came back that it was good shit.

[[http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=181&objectid=10494717|The drug ketamine – known in some drug using circles as "Special K" or "Fantastic Ket" is set to be classed as a restricted class C drug.

Associate Health Minister Jim Anderton said the short-acting hallucinogenic anaesthetic will be a restricted substance after the classification is…

Ben, they don't give it to sceptics. Horrible side-effects. Can make you vote NZ First.

Damn, I blame my family. Skepticism runs in families too.

there is a difference between feeling depressed and experiencing full blown depression

i think that's the main lesson i've taken away from this issue thus far.

When that new cancer drug was approved recently, TV3 explained the percentage difference it was supposed to make with startling clarity. Little diagrams and everything.

Their report on the SSRI thing…

When that new cancer drug was approved recently, TV3 explained the percentage difference it would make with startling clarity. Little diagrams and everything.

Their report on this appears to be online.

What the research says is that, because the drug turns out to be no better than a placebo (for all but the most extreme cases), the fact the pill works for someone does not tell them whether it contains the drug or is a placebo. That's all.

Yes. But you…

I think that most people who…

ii) Steve I would urge you to stop and ponder the dilemma for the medical profession of figuring out who can and cannot have a real drug as opposed to a placebo or indeed who would be qualified to make such a determination.

And the moral issue. If doctors were…

there is a difference between feeling depressed and experiencing full blown depression

for those of you who have not experienced depression,…

(As an aside, I am pretty convinced that thyroid check ups should be much…

Placebos are inactive or ineffective treatments or formulations; however a patient may experience either a positive or negative clinical effect while taking one. When a placebo is…

Lots of people here, who say or imply "the drug had a great effect on me, so the research must be wrong", are missing an important point: how do you know you were not being given a sugar pill?

Two weeks of crippling side-effects going on? Six freaking months of…

Er, Steve, respectfully: Fuck off. I wasn't given a sugar pill and I have never taken part in any trial and I know it worked (and works) for me.

With all due respect, I did say that I do not doubt it works (for you and everyone…

"chemical imbalance?! try levi-chem! the new wonder pill from pzitzer!

pzitzer (R); balancing your chemistry since 1984"

i think 81st might have struck the nubbin of the real issue.

Perhaps a bit left field, but much of the angst…

(Or, to be provocative, not an illness at all, which would tie in nicely with the notion that drug companies are…

I find it sad that those kids are missing out on the real life experiences (through suppression of "bad behaviour") which in the long run could help them to grow.

I think you're putting a bit of a value judgement on it there Sofie. Being unable to get out of…

ii) Steve I would urge you to stop and ponder the dilemma for the medical profession of figuring out who can…

(To be facetious, perhaps the medical profession are cursing at being found out, and will now have to find something else to give people...)

So I agree with Steve R -…

I can go off meds for up to six months at a time but when I start not coping I can…

Note that the research says (for all but perhaps the severest…

Isn't this because society not only stigmatises mental illness, but also the use of chemicals, legal and illegal, to alter mood?

Exactly, because it's a weak thing to do, and you should just get-the-fuck over it.

I love love love the John Kirwan ads. They really speak to me, and…

Bell (1989) sent copies of articles on global warming back to the sources quoted and asked them to comment on any inaccuracies. Bell (1991) summarises the results of that study:

"Sources…

taking Prozac, for example, for years is something I find deeply unattractive

Isn't this because society not only stigmatises mental illness, but also the use of chemicals, legal and illegal, to alter mood?

All things being…

www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/16

Thanks, Cushla, the Helen Fisher clip is excellent. The notion that fiddling with serotonin levels also affects dopamine levels (suppresses it) and therefore interferes in…

Sometimes there are reasons why research isn't published, often that reason is that "it's crap".

Sometimes Kyle. And then...

Selective Publication of Antidepressant Trials and Its Influence on Apparent Efficacy

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/358/3/252

Prozac, used by 40m people, does not work say scientists

I know in an intelligent audience like this people won't see everything in black and white and absolutes, but I'll say this anyway – the truth is that Prozac doesn't work for everyone. That's why there's a whole range of…

I, for one, have quietly emailed the journalist to suggest he ask his sub-editors to change the headline at least. Given it doesn't hold true to his story or the study, it seems particularly cavalier when dealing with mental health topics...

It's not just the Herald – I spotted the…

The data were obtained under America's Freedom of Information Act, and include both published and unpublished trials. This has the effect of removing "publication bias": where only the published research is examined.

You'd really want to know if there was a difference between the published and unpublished trials here.

Sometimes…

The Herald is getting a bit of a roasting in its Your Views section already. I think there are people talking about Press Council complaints.

I, for one, have quietly emailed the journalist to suggest he ask his sub-editors to change the headline at least. Given it doesn't hold true…

Thus, the increased benefit for extremely depressed patients seems attributable to a decrease in responsiveness to placebo, rather than an increase in responsiveness to medication

is this implying that the placebo effect is masking the drug effect in less severly depressed people?

It's certainly a bit wierd, the evidence is…

A significant group of people on the autistic spectrum — including…

I do recall that people point to SSRIs + cognitive behavioural therapy as very reliable, but I don't have a citation for you.

Oh yeah, SSRIs by themselves probably won't fix you, but they might make it a little easier to get out of bed and get to your cognitive…

yes because so many of us WANT to have drugs in our life for years, we love that every day/night/both we have to take X Xpills.
yes it's so fun.

here's the things for people with mental health…

It occurred to me to wonder what this will do to the people in that famously hard first few weeks.

My resident psychologist certainly…

Are they the margin for error of over prescribed meds?

The otherwise healthy with no other messy factors for a period of 6weeks when they kick in in around a month.

Why not a 6 month study?

This is the normal min as…

I really don't think people who are taking these meds will stop,

No, but there are people for whom these can be helpful that would use this as another reason to not take them. Oversubscription aside, the stigma associated in some peoples' mind with taking anti-depressants is still deeply ingrained.

Thus, the increased benefit for extremely depressed patients seems attributable to a decrease in responsiveness to placebo, rather than an increase in responsiveness to medication.

is this implying that the placebo effect is masking the drug effect in less severly depressed people?

I really don't think people who are taking…

I don't think anyone who hasn't been there can really understand how shitty and utterly powerless you feel at the very notion of choking down medication.

Yeah, I felt that way when my doctor told me I was asthmatic. It was news to me since I've always been fit. I…

In the depression guideline (National Collaborating Centre for Mental Health, 2004a), for example, comparing the efficacy of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) antidepressants with placebo in the treatment of mild to moderate depression, there was a statistically significant difference, with SSRIs being superior in reducing depression scores;…

This possibility is similar to the (incorrect) birth control pill/ breast cancer link reported in the UK…

weighted mean improvement was 9.60 points on the HRSD in the drug groups and 7.80 in the placebo groups, yielding a mean drug–placebo difference of 1.80…

Don't hit anyone, just be the best bloody friend you can be. I don't think anyone who hasn't been there can really understand how shitty and utterly powerless you feel at the very notion of choking down medication. It might not seem so at the moment, but it really…

The danger here is that people taking these drugs will see only the headlines (and Radio New Zealand seems to have been about little else this morning) and just stop taking the tablets. I can't emphasise enough how dangerous this could be.

Too right. I have a friend who's just…

No Right Turn has already slapped up a post declaring SSRIs to be "snake oil".

To which my response is, fuck off and come back when you're Doctor Savant. Ironically enough, I'm due for the quarterly checkup where I pay careful attention to medical professional who aren't the bitches of…