Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: The Digital Natives

BenWilson

Thu, 05 Jun 2014 22:20:37 +1200

Yes, elections are bad for business. I'm glad exams are after that.

Richard Aston

Thu, 05 Jun 2014 13:24:43 +1200

Thanks Sacha , a good round up indeed. Interesting speculation that Labour will be doing some electorate deals but not publicly.

In the NBR story Chris Keall asks Cunliffe if they will back off in Te Tai Tokerau, Cunliffe's measured response, " Kelvin Davis has been in the media all…

Sacha

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 20:51:56 +1200

Compete or cooperate? Bryce Edwards rounds up coverage.

BenWilson

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 19:13:30 +1200

Quite a few Labourites clearly feel strongly that IP/Mana actually is the enemy. My comments about teamwork refer to the Green/Labour synergy. Labour definitely don't need IP/Mana anywhere near so much, indeed they would be best placed by playing them off with the Maori Party.

The general left wing feeling…

Sacha

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 18:05:54 +1200

People don't need to hear you yelling at each other, or about each other, when they can clearly see from your movements that you're acting in concert

I refer you again to recent evidence to the contrary. When nobody is visibly disciplined for stepping out of line, we have to…

BenWilson

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 17:57:56 +1200

You know, that makes a lot of sense. It’s those strategy games you play on the computer, innit?

I'm always hoping to make that pay. Only a few thousand wasted hours left!

But I'd say it's more informed by sport. When you drill as a team you can expect coordination…

BenWilson

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 16:44:44 +1200

which is approx 2.3 kg per litre of petrol.

I found that hard to believe until I did some basic maths/physics. Every carbon atom ends up bound with 2 oxygen ones. Atomic weight of carbon around 12, oxygen around 16, so the ratio of weight is 4/3. Total weight of…

Rob Stowell

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 13:01:23 +1200

Trying to get my head around this – $25 per tonne is just 2.5c per kg. A litre of petrol contains about 650 gms of carbon, which is less than 2c per litre. But I *think* the price is per tonne of CO2 emitted, which is approx 2.3 kg per…

Sacha

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 10:49:26 +1200

not likely to change the world

that nuclear-free thing will never catch on ..

Sacha

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 10:47:55 +1200

it has to do the numbers first

which is the sort of thing I would have expected them to say.

Russell Brown

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 09:53:39 +1200

don’t see anything there.
guess ZB talked with someone.
presume someone talked. :)

Ryan Boswell of One News got the memo as well, by the looks. Tweeted:

Labour’s refusing to comment about the Greens $29m spend on free GP visits for teens saying it has to do the numbers first…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 09:47:39 +1200

something not quite so soft that puts hard requirements on polluters to clean up after themselves

Not wishing to derail a thread that is about politics rather than this issue specifically.

This is not the issue for NZ. The fact remains that NZs contribution to greenhouse gasses is insignificant. We…

David Hood

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 09:41:51 +1200

I think I should note that the Green's policy bears a very strong resemblance to that introduced by the right-wing state government of British Columbia (only the Green Party rate is not as high) which had been working very, very well for them

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/british-columbia-carbon-tax-sanity

Sacha

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 09:26:51 +1200

don't see anything there.
guess ZB talked with someone.
presume someone talked. :)

Paul Campbell

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 08:11:12 +1200

I think the way to look at ETS is that the neocon-markets-are-always-the-best-way-to-solve-problems solution doesn't seem to be working, too many loopholes (and I guess they are what markets are good at) – maybe it is time for something not quite so soft that puts hard requirements on polluters to clean…

linger

Wed, 04 Jun 2014 00:06:07 +1200

Rich: “ETS […] has comprehensively failed”
Sacha: ETS was “comprehensively gutted since"
True… but more accurately, the ETS was made to fail ( both in its original too-weak incarnation by Labour, and more so in each subsequently weakened revision by National).
As an obvious starter, dairy should have been included…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:57:23 +1200

You know, that makes a lot of sense. It’s those strategy games you play on the computer, innit?

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:56:27 +1200

Who was the spokesperson quoted initially as saying Labour would no longer respond except to National policies? That’s what got my goat.*

In the source one of Jessica Williams' tweets? She may be able to clarify.

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:54:20 +1200

I’d expect Key to do exactly what Cunliffe is doing. He’d talk about National’s immigration policy. Then he’d attack Labour’s. He wouldn’t even talk about NZF’s.

ETA: Actually, then he'd have a crack at the Greens' and demand that Labour comment on that.

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:51:30 +1200

Let the goat go! It's not the craziest idea. It means that they maximise time spent talking about their policy. I noticed both Cunliffe and Norman doing exactly this. Every time Labour get asked about Green policy, they just talk about their own policy. Every time Greens get asked about…

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:49:15 +1200

Labour does not have to agree or disagree with everything their likeliest allies propose.

However, making a reported blanket ‘no comment’ promise between now and the election is not smart behaviour under MMP, and at 30% it hardly makes them look like a government in waiting, does it.

No, just…

Sacha

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:20:43 +1200

And that's the sort of reaction I would have expected.

Who was the spokesperson quoted initially as saying Labour would no longer respond except to National policies? That's what got my goat.*

* no animals were harmed in the making of this point.

Sacha

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:18:54 +1200

Ta. Love my day job but it does cut into the research time. :)

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:15:13 +1200

What [Labour] have said is “We’ll talk”

Link welcomed.

Here:

Labour, the Greens' prospective coalition partner, introduced emissions trading in the first place, and its finance spokesperson David Parker wants the scheme retained.

"We're happy to consider (the Green Party's) alternative but we do note we favour an Emissions Trading…

Sacha

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:10:30 +1200

you can see why people are reacting to the reaction, eh?

Sacha

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:09:47 +1200

either really good or really bad message control.
need more grey

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:05:43 +1200

Scott Yorke assembles some relevant tweets and posts.

What the hell was up with that lot? Did they confer or just all explode together?

Sacha

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 20:24:42 +1200

Scott Yorke assembles some relevant tweets and posts.

Sacha

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 20:22:21 +1200

if only he'd been Swifter

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 17:25:25 +1200

People were so hard on Shearer but they didn’t realise he was running on the beta.

Yes, he was 95% complete on launch.

Bart Janssen

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 17:15:44 +1200

He’s also seeming less like an android.

That'll be the latest patch.

People were so hard on Shearer but they didn't realise he was running on the beta.

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 17:03:20 +1200

I think the assumption is that in year 1, the tax cuts balance the carbon tax.
If in subsequent years, people are using less fuel, then sure, the carbon tax revenues will fall and they'll have to pay more in other taxes to compensate. But they'll be saving money on…

Rob Stowell

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 16:25:18 +1200

Love the carbon tax policy. Really hope NZ gets to try it.
But am i just missing something obvious, or is there a sort of paradox at the heart of it? Eg- giving the money a tax would raise back to people (and companies, ahem) in the form of flat…

Sacha

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 15:59:46 +1200

an ETS, which has comprehensively failed

been comprehensively gutted since, to be fair.

Sacha

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 15:55:40 +1200

Which is much easier to say if you don’t have any policy of your own.

The Internet Party has their own environment policy. Signals to voters a potential overlap with say Greens, Mana and Labour – and not with National.

What [Labour] have said is “We’ll talk”
Link welcomed.

You…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 15:50:32 +1200

Labour first http://www.webcitation.org/5k1gJJStW then gave it up under pressure from Peters and Dunne. They did consider that one could be introduced "post 2012".

They then switched to an ETS, which has comprehensively failed.

It would be kinda nice if they could work with the Greens on a…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 15:36:37 +1200

Wow, just hit Cunliffe’s bit. I seldom watch TV news so I’m just a little shocked by how confident and coherent he is, remembering how poorly Shearer came across. Good to see.

He’s become quite good at not being rattled by interviewers barking excitedly at him, which is useful. He's…

Russell Brown

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 15:30:48 +1200

As if on cue, Laila Harre tweets:

Having a look at @NZGreens climate change policy. Seems sensible to me.

See, not that difficult. MMP voters like to know where the similarities are as well as the differences.

Which is much easier to say if you don't have any policy of…

Paul Campbell

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 14:44:25 +1200

BTW today's ODT cartoon is fun

http://static.squarespace.com/static/52aca146e4b06d986ca82df3/52c0ec1ce4b0f4346e9358a5/538c4796e4b046a057b7b3bc/1401702314275/wakaW.jpg

Paul Campbell

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 14:39:28 +1200

It dawned on me that Hollywood may have done something inadvertently very stupid, they have essentially goaded a viable pirate party into existence …. from now on any dirty tricks on their part are going to scream “American Political Interference” (which it would be …. cue TV news images of…

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 14:31:58 +1200

MMP voters like to know where the similarities are as well as the differences.

Absolutely. Both are vital. Full marks for similarities. Now, about those differences...

Sacha

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 14:01:09 +1200

Slater/Ede vs Hager – know who I’d put my money on. :)

Sacha

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 13:59:10 +1200

Talking up what a threat IP is to them seems a bit flat to me. Maybe they take some votes from the Greens, but it doesn’t seem like they’re really challenging the Greens on the environmentalism front, and would be foolish to try. So long as they signal compatibility, I…

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 13:19:55 +1200

But does Labour feel that way?

Perhaps not, but as Norman kept pointing out, they're in a very strong position this time. There is nearly zero chance that Labour will form a coalition without the Greens, so if IP/Mana made up the numbers, the Greens could quite simply insist, locking…

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 13:13:28 +1200

Wow, just hit Cunliffe's bit. I seldom watch TV news so I'm just a little shocked by how confident and coherent he is, remembering how poorly Shearer came across. Good to see.

Richard Aston

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 13:11:24 +1200

I’m damned sure that the Greens would rather make the numbers with Labour with the help of IP/Mana than with the help of NZ First.

But does Labour feel that way?

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 12:57:41 +1200

Russell Norman came across very well in that Q&A to my eyes, btw. Really has a good idea of how a mixed coalition could work.

Talking up what a threat IP is to them seems a bit flat to me. Maybe they take some votes from the Greens, but it doesn’t…

BenWilson

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 09:57:33 +1200

you’re too old for her anyway :)

I'm sure she'd take it if I gave it :-)

As for obsession, hardly. I'm disappointed, slightly. We'll see, now. My prediction, the IP is screwed. I consider that a bit of a pity, a might-have-been. The upside is that Mana get some…

Sacha

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 09:21:36 +1200

Her husband runs a software company

He’s a health sector research/data geek. Nice man.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 07:47:51 +1200

Girl from IPMana (sexist meme of the day)
I'm hoping the 'Princess Laila and the Rebel Alliance' meme
might bite as well...
Especially as Key's Death Star is closing in for the kill!

;- )

AlistairC

Tue, 03 Jun 2014 01:13:35 +1200

BenW :
Since the question obsesses you so : Laila is working on raising her geek profile: apparently she got told to shut up about technical details on Q&A
http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a/s2014-ep13-video-5987463

And what do you actually know about how geeky she is? Her husband runs a software company... Oh and she's not…

Ian Dalziel

Mon, 02 Jun 2014 17:53:02 +1200

It makes more sense to focus on their own policies
and on opposing the party they oppose.
Yeah, but it would be good if they took off the heavy duty blinkers to get the big picture...
At the moment it feels a bit like __'La la la la I can't…

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Jun 2014 16:57:26 +1200

ready for publication in August, perhaps

In which case it'll probably run into whatever it is Whaleoil is saving for later in the year. I can see a lot of merit in Labour and the Greens standing clear of the mess.

Russell Brown

Mon, 02 Jun 2014 16:53:35 +1200

Not sure that’s really so bad. If they endorse the policy, it’s something for National to attack them with. The Greens can fight to defend their own policy. At least Labour are not wasting energy and camera time arguing with the Greens.

Agreed. No matter what they say, certain reporters…

BenWilson

Mon, 02 Jun 2014 12:44:07 +1200

Not sure that's really so bad. If they endorse the policy, it's something for National to attack them with. The Greens can fight to defend their own policy. At least Labour are not wasting energy and camera time arguing with the Greens.

Sacha

Mon, 02 Jun 2014 10:12:43 +1200

More strategic MMP genius from Labour (loyal footsoldiers, that's your cue to shoot the messenger):

The Greens are promising free healthcare up to the age of 18, and a new carbon tax on big emitters, with tax cuts for individuals and businesses.

But likely Government partner Labour has zero response:…

Sacha

Sun, 01 Jun 2014 23:02:48 +1200

ready for publication in August, perhaps

Kumara Republic

Sun, 01 Jun 2014 20:37:02 +1200

But maybe Key is a little rattled. Maybe it’s facing an opponent who’s much wealthier? More likely: the IP entering is likely to repeatedly focus attention on his series of statements surrounding what and when he knew about the spying and the raid. TV3’s timelines look quite convincing. This is…

BenWilson

Sun, 01 Jun 2014 16:10:48 +1200

First I get the impression $3m isn’t much to him. And he’s likely to lose it anyway. Ego and grievance is probably part if it. He’d like to take down the government. Plus a sense of mischief. And maybe somewhere in there a desire to help others. It’s not impossible…

Rob Stowell

Sun, 01 Jun 2014 15:29:50 +1200

I guess we just see this differently. I think Labour would say no if such a deal were offered. It'd look too bad. And there'd be incredible scrutiny and a threat to relations with the US etc etc. At which point Hone and Harre allowing National back would be curtains…

BenWilson

Sun, 01 Jun 2014 14:24:35 +1200

They have zero chance of getting the Justice portfolio.

A low chance, maybe, depending on the extent to which they hold the balance of power. But getting the Justice portfolio is obviously not the only way to wield influence over this. They just have to make it clear what they…

Rob Stowell

Sun, 01 Jun 2014 14:14:43 +1200

Maybe I'm blind but you have to trust me it's not willful :)

BenWilson

Sun, 01 Jun 2014 13:30:43 +1200

The claim from Key (parroted widely) that that’s the whole point, Kim Dotcom is buying a shot at foiling his extradition, is just not credible.

I’ll give you that it’s disputable. But it’s not incredible. Dotcom showed no interest at all in NZ politics until he was facing these charges*,…

Rich of Observationz

Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:04:33 +1200

There's a very good argument that indirect copyright infringement shouldn't be a criminal matter. It would be reasonable for a future government, in general but especially if the court finds against Dotcom, to look at reforming our copyright legislation to make this clear.

If they passsed such a change, then…

Rob Stowell

Sat, 31 May 2014 22:53:18 +1200

Anyone else thinking IPMana joining a Lab/Green government would make it considerably more difficult for a Labour/Green minister of justice to rule against KCD being extradited, even if they favoured that on its merits?
The claim from Key (parroted widely) that that’s the whole point, Kim Dotcom is buying a…

BenWilson

Sat, 31 May 2014 19:52:01 +1200

I was expecting a job. Since I've got no qualifications or ideological alignment, I'm the perfect candidate. But I'm probably a wee bit too young.

BenWilson

Sat, 31 May 2014 15:32:24 +1200

Sold. I'm voting for Bill English, because Layer 7.

BenWilson

Sat, 31 May 2014 11:28:49 +1200

If they’d had parliamentary democracy in 15th century Germany, I wonder if they’d have had a “Printing Party” and people whinging that its leader really didn’t have a deep enough knowledge of movable type.

One thing is for sure, if there was a leader who couldn't even read or write,…

Rich of Observationz

Sat, 31 May 2014 11:13:15 +1200

As a techy lower stack geek myself, I agree wholeheartedly.

If they'd had parliamentary democracy in 15th century Germany, I wonder if they'd have had a "Printing Party" and people whinging that its leader really didn't have a deep enough knowledge of movable type.

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 31 May 2014 10:49:45 +1200

So they recycle an old politician? Hmmm.

If it's the youth vote they are after, they wont remember Laila from when they were in nappies. ;) She's a newby and if kids find Key attractive, Laila kicks arse.
They did need a confident seasoned person and one acceptable to Mana.…

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 31 May 2014 09:44:17 +1200

So they recycle an old politician? Hmmm
I hear there's still pure DOS ticking at the heart of Windows...

needs must...

:- )

Ian Dalziel

Sat, 31 May 2014 09:41:43 +1200

The Girl from IP Mana...
I think the 'Internet' referred to in the Internet Party,
embraces the concept of social connectivity,
rather than the engineering side...

To be more accurate it could be the App Party
but that triggers with 'Apartheid' and 'Apathy',
and NZIP was never gonna float...

how…

BenWilson

Fri, 30 May 2014 22:06:28 +1200

So you expect an expert geek? To lead a political Party? I think it’s “youth” that’s the direction they are heading .

So they recycle an old politician? Hmmm.

And ? This National Govt has shown complete manipulation of the Electoral system totally within MMP and the public have voted…

BenWilson

Fri, 30 May 2014 21:45:43 +1200

And honestly, I’d be shocked if Lalia Harre couldn’t do that.

I'm sure she'll do an admirable job of pushing her long held and well known agenda. I don't even have a problem with that agenda. I just thought that the Internet Party might have been a change, something new.…

BenWilson

Fri, 30 May 2014 21:43:28 +1200

The old tension between the techy lower-stack geeks and the layer 7 ‘what is it used for’ folk continues.

I don't think this is an example of that at all. Layer 7 people do at least typically use the internet heavily, even if they have no idea how it works.…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 30 May 2014 21:02:00 +1200

damn straight. I regret not being wealthier.

Me too Sacha. My life is ok tho. But man I'd love to be able to shower those that never get anything.

Sacha

Fri, 30 May 2014 20:17:38 +1200

If I had lots of money, I'd share it around

damn straight. I regret not being wealthier.

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 30 May 2014 20:17:30 +1200

? Not yet done so?

Thanks Moz. This shit is fresh! I wanna see it play out. Plus no Party gets to judge.

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 30 May 2014 20:12:27 +1200

Well, if I was going to vote for them, which I sure as shit am not going to now.

Fussy ;)

So you expect an expert geek? To lead a political Party? I think it's "youth" that's the direction they are heading . That's the connect. Youth use the internet…

Moz

Fri, 30 May 2014 20:12:23 +1200

But the leader of the Internet Party? I'd like it if they could tell me ...

...more about the internet than, say, the leader of ACT can about consumer rights? More than the leader of The Conservative Party can tell us about conservation? Than the leader of National can about…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 30 May 2014 20:06:53 +1200

You can, however, buy advertising. You can get the Mana message out far, far harder than without money.

And ? This National Govt has shown complete manipulation of the Electoral system totally within MMP and the public have voted that that's ok.
Hey. Dotcom, Hone. I truly believe they, with…

Sacha

Fri, 30 May 2014 20:06:06 +1200

The old tension between the techy lower-stack geeks and the layer 7 'what is it used for' folk continues.

Most young people don't care about the pumbing. They just want a future that connects – and flushes – when needed. Guess which sort the Internet Party knows there are more…

BenWilson

Fri, 30 May 2014 19:47:43 +1200

It's definitely righteous to have taken steps to avoid having the internet fucked up.

What do you expect him to do, write a compiler?

As the leader of the Mana party I don't really expect him to have any more tech savvy than your average MP. But the leader of…

Richard Aston

Fri, 30 May 2014 15:35:24 +1200

What do you expect him to do, write a compiler?

Made me laugh , thanks .

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 30 May 2014 15:19:39 +1200

What's he ever done for the internet?

Hone Harawira voted against:
the Copyright "Infringing Filesharing" Bill aka three strikes.
the Telecommunications (Interception Capability and Security) Bill
and the
GCSB bill.

What do you expect him to do, write a compiler?

Hey, we could have had that Richard Stallman as Internet…

BenWilson

Fri, 30 May 2014 14:48:33 +1200

The internet party movement is like flower power.

Heh. So it's a sweet smelling sham then. "Sham of Roses", available at all leading retailers. To me, it smells nothing like napalm in the morning.

I don’t know about that. You can’t actually buy votes with money.

You can, however, buy…

BenWilson

Fri, 30 May 2014 14:26:32 +1200

I don’t think anyone would claim that Harre was chosen to drive IP policy development in the IT/tech freedom area.

Presumably, however, she will push for whatever is developed?

So stepping back and looking at this in terms of pure power dynamics, MANA actually held more cards in this liaison…

BenWilson

Fri, 30 May 2014 13:56:04 +1200

I’d point out that Dunne and Banks aren’t actually exploiting the “coat-tails rule” as neither of their vestigial parties gain enough votes for a second MP (and Dunne doesn’t have enough for a first, I think).

They aren't, but they would like to be, and they could, if they got…

David Hood

Fri, 30 May 2014 13:42:03 +1200

Richard, yes.

Richard Aston

Fri, 30 May 2014 10:48:59 +1200

Thanks Rich , I hadn't understood how that worked and what the advantage of two single independents was to National . So you are saying if Dunne and ACT were national electorate MPS , National would get less party seats as opposed to them being partnered independents.

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 30 May 2014 09:14:16 +1200

I'd point out that Dunne and Banks aren't actually exploiting the "coat-tails rule" as neither of their vestigial parties gain enough votes for a second MP (and Dunne doesn't have enough for a first, I think).

What they are tending to do is exploit the "affiliated parties" loophole where a…

AlistairC

Fri, 30 May 2014 01:45:27 +1200

Coat-tails... Well, I can see a scenario where the campaign catches fire, for Mana as well as for Internet, and they get, say, four Maori seats, 4% of the list vote... and Laila doesn't even make it into parliament. That would still be an excellent result, but not really the…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 30 May 2014 01:26:38 +1200

The story has managed to make it globally on CNN and ABC, among others.

If Hone & Kim somehow manage to pull a Beppe Grillo and hold the balance of power from a near-zero base, I wonder how strongly it would turn the voters of Epsom and Ohariu against the MMP…

Heather W.

Thu, 29 May 2014 21:16:01 +1200

"Let’s be clear… anywhere else in the world, it would be called the Pirate Party… but Dotcom is already in a power of sh*t with the FBI, so that name was out of the question."

The name Pirate Party has already been used in NZ. Not actually a registered party…

A C Young

Thu, 29 May 2014 13:16:41 +1200

I wonder if this party might not wind up pulling in a few of the less hardcore libertarians?

It's definitely not a world-view that I share but I've always felt they were really underserved in terms of both ACT and national (and obviously the conservatives weren't going to help).

Moz

Thu, 29 May 2014 12:58:22 +1200

I am not convinced IP/Mana will fit neatly onto the old Left/Right spectrum.

Do you expect them to fit worse than The Greens or Maori do?

I think that's a complaint like "National doesn't fit neatly into the communist-fascist continuum" or "Labour doesn't fit neatly into the green-brown spectrum". Yup,…

Russell Brown

Thu, 29 May 2014 12:28:13 +1200

Another Roughan Special?

Possibly Fran. Although bizarre "I can see into the minds of non-voters" part near the end is Roughanesque.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 29 May 2014 12:11:30 +1200

And a weird, petulant editorial from this morning’s Herald. The author doesn’t understand extradition law and can’t even spell Harre’s name correctly.

Another Roughan Special?

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 29 May 2014 11:47:24 +1200

drop kick right in front...
Here’s a wild punt. Brendan Horan.
The Weather Underground reveals its hand...

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 29 May 2014 11:42:51 +1200

Three of the top four potential IP/Mana candidates haven't been MPs for a while (or ever) and Hone prefers to campaign outside the house, so that would be a plus for them.

Stephen Judd

Thu, 29 May 2014 11:32:13 +1200

it can be a disgusting little fight pit at times.

I am doing quite a bit of phone canvassing at the moment. It stands out how many people who don't vote or don't support any party follow up with a complaint about how politicians behave, usually mentioning behaviour in the…

Rob Hosking

Thu, 29 May 2014 10:47:50 +1200

If it’s not Laila Harre in the end, then the media have just done a Dewey Defeats Truman.

Believe me when I say there are those of us who have nightmares involving that very image.

Richard Aston

Thu, 29 May 2014 10:29:12 +1200

I just love this election, so full of twists and turns and unexpected surprises. Its going to be a wild ride.

I am not convinced IP/Mana will fit neatly onto the old Left/Right spectrum. Actually I am hopeful we are seeing something else emerging here.

When the IP first approached…

Russell Brown

Thu, 29 May 2014 10:13:08 +1200

A useful Herald profile of Harre from 2010, as she was leaving the Auckland Transition Agency, noting her zstrategic and organisation skills.

And a weird, petulant editorial from this morning's Herald. The author doesn't understand extradition law and can't even spell Harre's name correctly.

AlistairC

Thu, 29 May 2014 09:50:13 +1200

Let's be clear... anywhere else in the world, it would be called the Pirate Party... but Dotcom is already in a power of sh*t with the FBI, so that name was out of the question. If you look at the history of pirate parties in Europe, they tend to last…

Andrew Geddis

Thu, 29 May 2014 08:46:03 +1200

I’m sure she can. I just don’t see what she brings to whatever it is that is actually different between the Internet Party and Mana. If there is nothing, then my comment that it’s a sham stands.

I don't think anyone would claim that Harre was chosen to drive IP…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 29 May 2014 08:14:42 +1200

the verte jewel party
Green MPs past, present and deceased – Rod Donald – have been our consistent champions for the past 25 years. I respect and support that.
Like minded individuals (in the Banks Peninsula area) take note :The Rod Donald Trust is looking for trustees.
(till June 6)

Steve Withers

Thu, 29 May 2014 07:53:06 +1200

I’m one of those who sees Dotcom as a flawed person in many ways, while also recognising that to greater or lesser extents we are ALL flawed people. What I am absolutely grateful to him for is exposing the extent to which our own government was turning a blind eye…

AlistairC

Thu, 29 May 2014 03:12:03 +1200

Surprised? I'm completely gutted!
I signed up Laila to the Labour Party many moons ago... I was delighted that we were finally back in the same Green waka... and she jumps ship again! That'll take some getting used to.
But it certainly makes the "Reddit Karma" party (thank you Civilian)…

BenWilson

Thu, 29 May 2014 02:06:25 +1200

Did you read the policy principles?

Of the IP? Yes.

I think she can work with that

I'm sure she can. I just don't see what she brings to whatever it is that is actually different between the Internet Party and Mana. If there is nothing, then my comment that…

Russell Brown

Thu, 29 May 2014 00:08:19 +1200

But what on earth does she have to do with the Internet?

Did you read the policy principles? I think she can work with that.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 28 May 2014 22:40:02 +1200

If it's not Laila Harre in the end, then the media have just done a Dewey Defeats Truman.

BenWilson

Wed, 28 May 2014 21:47:32 +1200

It looks more like the MANA Movement (and its sympathisers helping organise the Internet Party) have pwned Dotcom.

Not sure. Maybe he got what he wanted out of it all. I doubt he’d be parting with massive cash otherwise. But if so, it seems like the Internet Party is something…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 28 May 2014 20:01:24 +1200

Why should Dotcom and Mana have divergent agendas? There seems to be an assumption that they do, because of their very different backgrounds, but has any indication come from Dotcom that he's got a bunch of hideously reactionary policies he's going to enact just as soon as he finally achieves…

BenWilson

Wed, 28 May 2014 17:34:10 +1200

What makes you think that it does?

Yes, on the day, the internet was the pwn.

Andrew Geddis

Wed, 28 May 2014 17:29:56 +1200

But what on earth does she have to do with the Internet?

I'm not sure the Internet Party has anything to do with the Internet. What makes you think that it does?

More seriously, this rather upends the idea that Dotcom had pwned the MANA Movement. It looks more like…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 28 May 2014 17:06:33 +1200

They could have had that Al Gore*

Non-NZ citizenship notwithstanding. Why do we have these silly restrictions?

BenWilson

Wed, 28 May 2014 17:03:15 +1200

But what on earth does she have to do with the Internet?

Russell Brown

Wed, 28 May 2014 16:57:08 +1200

Laila Harre.

I think that’s a bit of a win.

Big win. She has left-wing cred – NDU, Green Party and the ILO in Fiji(!) in the past few years. But she also ran the HR part of the Auckland Transition Agency, bringing the old councils’ staff in the new…

Greg Dawson

Wed, 28 May 2014 16:51:08 +1200

And that's without even taking her shoes off – she's perfect!

BenWilson

Wed, 28 May 2014 16:39:48 +1200

Decadigital!!

Greg Dawson

Wed, 28 May 2014 16:37:47 +1200

Is she digital?

Ten times over!

BenWilson

Wed, 28 May 2014 16:11:38 +1200

In Horan's case, I'm taking the piss. In Harre's case, it's a genuine question.

Sacha

Wed, 28 May 2014 15:52:53 +1200

dunno. great question :)

Sacha

Wed, 28 May 2014 15:52:29 +1200

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laila_Harre#Political_career

BenWilson

Wed, 28 May 2014 15:49:49 +1200

Is she digital?

Sacha

Wed, 28 May 2014 15:45:35 +1200

Not so sure she’s a terrific ‘political operative’

Did amazing work for Nurses Union, etc, and smartest tv commentary I've seen recently about the left. Could be a real unifier.

Moz

Wed, 28 May 2014 15:40:36 +1200

Laila Harre.

Stuff says it's a real rumor :)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10094154/Laila-Harre-to-lead-Internet-Party

Even Wikipedia has the rumor. I'm bemused.

Rob Stowell

Wed, 28 May 2014 15:31:52 +1200

Laila Harre.

I think that’s a bit of a win.
Bonza if true :) (Not so sure she's a terrific 'political operative' but pretty confident MANA would find plenty in common with her and she'd bring experience and – no better way to put it – mana to the IP.)…

Sacha

Wed, 28 May 2014 15:18:28 +1200

ooh, that would be good.

here's the (paywalled) NBR scoop.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 28 May 2014 15:11:22 +1200

Laila Harre.

I think that's a bit of a win.

Sacha

Wed, 28 May 2014 15:04:23 +1200

ah. is he digital?

BenWilson

Wed, 28 May 2014 14:54:17 +1200

Because he is Maori.

Sacha

Wed, 28 May 2014 14:51:22 +1200

but why would he be a 'reassuring' factor for the Mana Party?

BenWilson

Wed, 28 May 2014 14:45:20 +1200

Here's a wild punt. Brendan Horan.

Tristan

Wed, 28 May 2014 14:18:00 +1200

It's not unheard of for PR jobs to be temp training grounds prior to political jobs. Conor Robert springs to mind although he is back in PR now

Russell Brown

Wed, 28 May 2014 14:02:27 +1200

has any one heard from Paul Brislan recently?

I believe he's just stepped down as TUANZ CEO...

Nope. He's off to a swanky new PR/comms start-up.

Jeremy Andrew

Wed, 28 May 2014 13:55:54 +1200

has any one heard from Paul Brislan recently?
I believe he's just stepped down as TUANZ CEO...

Russell Brown

Wed, 28 May 2014 13:36:19 +1200

I also think Labour is smart enough to know that doing an Epsom in Te Tai Tokerau, or anywhere else, would alienate a lot of members and flaxroots campaign activists you don’t want staying home with their wallets shut in an election year.

Exactly. If you really wanted a way…

Grant McDougall

Wed, 28 May 2014 13:20:28 +1200

It'll be interesting to see how many MPs IM get and what effect it'll have. If it costs National being in gov't, they'll have no one else to blame, considering they decided to reject the Law Commission's recommendation to scrap the coat-tails rule.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 28 May 2014 13:13:25 +1200

Why would Labour fight so hard to take Te Tai Tokerau off Harawira? Isn't that kinda dumb.

No – First, and I don't mean this to sound as bitchy as it probably does, a good chunk of Labour would like their Maori seats back. Thank you very much. I also…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 28 May 2014 13:12:21 +1200

In Germany, these guys just got a Euro-MP elected.

Their leader justifies his populist policies thus:
In politics nowadays sentiments that bring in votes are the ones that get expressed and that's what I intend to do. Better that we get those votes than some sort of neo-Nazis.

Tristan

Wed, 28 May 2014 13:11:40 +1200

has any one heard from Paul Brislan recently?

Luke Williamson

Wed, 28 May 2014 12:32:19 +1200

How weird could Parliament get if we had reps for National, Labour, Greens, NZ First, Maori, ACT, United, Conservatives, Mana/IP? Imagine the coalition of the left!

Rob Stowell

Wed, 28 May 2014 12:27:12 +1200

Why would Labour fight so hard to take Te Tai Tokerau off Harawira?
Even more so: why would they fight hard in Waiariki to give the seat to Flavell? That so makes no sense.
(I reckon Sykes does have a good shot there- well-organised, a very strong candidate, and strong…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 28 May 2014 12:12:15 +1200

Yes surely Hone and Dave can sit down behind a glass window somewhere and share a beer

Richard Aston

Wed, 28 May 2014 12:10:40 +1200

Why would Labour fight so hard to take Te Tai Tokerau off Harawira? Isn't that kinda dumb. Leave it to Hone and at least Labour will have possibly 3 maybe more Internet/Mana PMs for a coalition deal.
Same deal the Nats did with Epsom and ACT.

Andrew Geddis

Wed, 28 May 2014 11:14:43 +1200

The "Does this person have any interest in Māori issues?" questions would never get asked otherwise (although I'd like to see that question become commonplace.)

Not so sure about that interpretation, Andre. I took it to be more of in the vein of "what on earth do the IP and…

Ken Double

Wed, 28 May 2014 10:54:24 +1200

I wouldn't be surprised if Mana went with an economically literate class warrior over someone with cultural bona fides. If they can persuade poor pakeha that they're in the same boat as most Maori then they have the beginnings of a strong, inclusive political force.

Andre Alessi

Wed, 28 May 2014 10:09:03 +1200

Guyon Espiner appears to know something, if his angle in the interview with Vikram this morning is anything to go by. The "Does this person have any interest in Māori issues?" questions would never get asked otherwise (although I'd like to see that question become commonplace.)

Paul Campbell

Wed, 28 May 2014 10:08:26 +1200

Did I really hear someone from the Maori Party piling on to the lefty angst with "they're going to coalition with a capitalist" on the radio this morning? oh the irony!

Jeremy Andrew

Wed, 28 May 2014 09:57:15 +1200

I did get an official denial from Huntly's @DekaSign on Twitter yesterday.

Public Address

Wed, 28 May 2014 09:57:14 +1200

Discussion from blog post.