Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: The Crazy Gang Nation

Stephen R

Thu, 17 Oct 2013 14:31:42 +1300

what would Skippy do?

According to the list, ( http://skippyslist.com/list/ ) there's a lot he's tried, and a lot he's been told he's not allowed to any more.
including such gems as
10. Not allowed to purchase anyone’s soul on government time.
...
48. I may not use public masturbation…

Tim Michie

Thu, 17 Oct 2013 14:00:25 +1300

what would Skippy do? Or the Gipper even...

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:48:36 +1300

Freezer bird
Senate passes debt deal
as the Magic Boomerang
returns to hand...
the USA recommences its
belly-up, debt-laden hurtle
into the fiscally imprudent!

Sigh... well, that didn't work,
what would Skippy do?

Tim Michie

Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:21:03 +1300

Washington Post: Senate passes debt deal.

Kumara Republic

Sat, 12 Oct 2013 19:45:45 +1300

Let's Call The Shutdown What It Is: Secession By Another Means

Interestingly, some analysis has been done on actual secession scenarios.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 09 Oct 2013 17:18:28 +1300

Meanwhile, lovely history lesson from Rachel Maddow. What did right-wing saint Ronald Reagan do when the Senate Majority leader threatened to hold the debt ceiling hostage? You may be surprised...

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/rachel-maddow/53118951/#53118951

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 09 Oct 2013 16:49:11 +1300

Maybe they should just accept this, follow the pattern of the rest of the world and have the House Majority Leader run the US while the President spends four years playing golf.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 09 Oct 2013 16:42:28 +1300

I prefer Andrew Sullivan's take: We're seeing the radical right has turned the GOP into The Nullification Party.

[T]hey simply do not accept the legitimacy of a President and Congress of the opposing party. The GOP does not regard the president as merely wrong – but as illegitimate. Not misguided…

Russell Brown

Wed, 09 Oct 2013 14:30:21 +1300

Bill Moyers:

Let's Call The Shutdown What It Is: Secession By Another Means

Kumara Republic

Wed, 09 Oct 2013 01:52:24 +1300

Yeah, but you'd think the very people screaming about government spending on steroids would be casting a gimlet eye over the $788 billion that went to the Departments of Defense and Homeland Security in fiscal 2011, no? Don't be silly...

The warnings from the last truly Lincolnite Republican President have…

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 08 Oct 2013 13:50:36 +1300

Richard Grevers

Tue, 08 Oct 2013 12:27:34 +1300

Randall Munroe's take on it...

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 08 Oct 2013 12:10:48 +1300

soul on ice...
Apparently Lockheed Martin say they'll run out of money by mid October!!! – so they're thinking of closing McMurdo Base and the Deep Freeze operation in Chchch – I'd have thought that would cost them way more than keeping it open – but then again they can…

Jason Kemp

Sun, 06 Oct 2013 14:59:33 +1300

I wonder if this RNZ interview might be useful. From US government shutdown Originally aired on Nine To Noon, Wednesday 2 October 2013

What I did note is that although there have been previous shutdowns – none like this – even though it was possible.

[[http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2571317/us-government-shutdown|Todd Schoenberger, New York-based market…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 05 Oct 2013 00:11:13 +1300

slashing military spending to keep making interest payments on US bonds would (arguably) delay an immediate sovereign debt crisis. But I'm not sure making the Tea Bagged GOP squirm is worth the risk.

Probably something to the effect of, "cut military spending and we'll all be speaking Arabic!" Previously it…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 05 Oct 2013 00:07:20 +1300

And when I visit Wellington Hospital next month for a rare tooth condition, I'm really hoping not to become a medical bankruptcy statistic of the kind that is usually seen in America.

Islander

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 13:58:56 +1300

What Americans pay for prescription medicines is insane

What we would pay for absolutely essential presciption drugs would also effectively deny then to the people who wouldnt be able to function without them.
2 of my whanau are dependent on such: one for Venlafaxine (upwards of $700 a month) and…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 11:51:46 +1300

What Americans pay for prescription medicines is insane.

They can always make them from cheap, illegal drugs.

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 10:43:15 +1300

Honestly, it couldn’t be harder to get through to these people if they were actually enclosed in brick walls.

Oh, try getting told with sublime confidence how the streets are clogged with wheezing, plague-ridden corpses in horrible countries with "socialized medicine" no matter how many silly, ignorant foreigners tell them…

Christopher Dempsey

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 10:42:18 +1300

Councils determine their own boundaries, subject to the oversight of the Local Government Commission. In Auckland’s case, I think the LGC did it.

Wearing ER hat, Local Govt Commission determines boundaries with input from Councils. The Commission is required to pay attention to population dynamics (which is why a census…

Danielle

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 09:46:50 +1300

I just posted these figures as a Facebook status update and one of my many Republican relatives responded with "it's about to get worse". AS IF THAT'S POSSIBLE. Honestly, it couldn't be harder to get through to these people if they were actually enclosed in brick walls.

Andi

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 09:13:34 +1300

I thought this was an interesting observation:
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/republicans-stuck-in-reality-they-created-20131003-2uxak.html

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 08:26:01 +1300

It may well be that the legislature can ‘legally’ decide to prioritise their spending and thus choose to avoid a default BUT there is a question as to whether they can techincally do it.

As I understand it, any such "prioritizing" would be done by the executive branch. While it…

Harry Musgrave

Fri, 04 Oct 2013 07:33:36 +1300

One point I read on the debt ceiling and a potential default.
It may well be that the legislature can 'legally' decide to prioritise their spending and thus choose to avoid a default BUT there is a question as to whether they can techincally do it. There will be a…

Gregor Ronald

Thu, 03 Oct 2013 23:21:40 +1300

These Republicans swore an oath to protect & defend their country. Why are they not being charged with treason?

Gary Young

Thu, 03 Oct 2013 22:13:31 +1300

And perhaps that goes some way towards explaining why Republicans are so enraged by the concept of 'affordable' in the Affordable Care Act.

Paul Brown

Thu, 03 Oct 2013 22:05:25 +1300

I am talking prescription drugs here!

Paul Brown

Thu, 03 Oct 2013 22:03:42 +1300

I have just returned from the States. My monthly drug bill there would be in the region of $1200 a month. Here it is $30. In Britain (I have dual passports)it was zero.

Gary Young

Thu, 03 Oct 2013 08:55:09 +1300

What Americans pay for prescription medicines is insane

Gives a worrying insight into what we will be paying for prescription medicines once Pharmac has been eviscerated by the TPP.

Lucy Stewart

Thu, 03 Oct 2013 04:44:43 +1300

I'm impressed by how forthright and impolite the coverage has become – seems like a tipping point for at least some US journos. Let's add Esquire to the mix:

I wouldn't call it a tipping point in that case – Charlie Pierce has been in fine and apoplectic form about…

Rich Lock

Thu, 03 Oct 2013 04:23:42 +1300

Tangentially related but interesting piece here discussing studies that show how pollies in the US perceive the views of their electorates.

This probably applies globally, too: I remember reading something recently in the UK about the gay marriage debate – someone who sat in on the house of lords debates…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 03 Oct 2013 01:27:50 +1300

Closer to home, Prostetnic Vogon Joyce is applying his latest il-logic to tertiary ed.

anth

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 23:18:31 +1300

I think the LGC did it
Yes, it was the Local Government Commission. It was at least an improvement on their earlier draft where the difference between number of voters was a factor of 2 rather than "only" 1.5.

If I remember correctly much of the problem was the MPs…

Russell Brown

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 23:12:00 +1300

This is really interesting: Americablog founder John Aravosis reports on his day-one experience with the Obamacare exchange in Washington DC.

What Americans pay for prescription medicines is insane.

David MacGregor

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 22:56:10 +1300

The US is going rogue – and we want to be their best friends. It's a funny old world.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Shutdown_Blues?src=soc_fcbks

Russell Brown

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 22:43:11 +1300

Likewise, Douglas controlled the inner Cabinet and so had a majority in Cabinet, which had a majority in the Parliamentary Party which had a majority in the House. You don’t need FPP for this (although it helps), you just need party discipline and a certain degree of idiocy.

Douglas also…

Idiot Savant

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 22:36:45 +1300

Councils determine their own boundaries, subject to the oversight of the Local Government Commission. In Auckland's case, I think the LGC did it. They're the same people BTW who imposed at-large voting on Palmerston North despite its council voting against it (after hearing public submissions, whcih were unfavourable).

Sacha

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 22:25:57 +1300

Doesn't the Electoral Commission determine ward boundaries?

anth

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 22:08:43 +1300

I can’t think of another mature democracy where gerrymandering or disenfranchisement are seen as legitimate political tactics.
Auckland Council was set up by National/Act with the smallest ward having 66.7% as many voters as the biggest.

Of the 20 councillors the 4 with the least number of voters/councillor are all…

Sacha

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 21:37:32 +1300

I'm impressed by how forthright and impolite the coverage has become – seems like a tipping point for at least some US journos. Let's add Esquire to the mix:

We have elected an ungovernable collection of snake-handlers, Bible-bangers, ignorami, bagmen and outright frauds, a collection so ungovernable that it insists…

Keir Leslie

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 19:52:30 +1300

It is the same effect. The Tea Party control a majority of the Republican selectorates, so they control the majority of the Republican caucus, which given it controls the majority of the House means they control the House. Likewise, Douglas controlled the inner Cabinet and so had a majority in…

Sacha

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 18:52:01 +1300

conservatives claim government doesn't work, then they get elected

the ultimate bad faith move.

Ross Mason

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 18:51:13 +1300

Well, they did also win another election after that.

Yes. And I don't think i was the only one conned into thinking that the damage had been done over the first 3 years and they couldn't possibly do that again and so they were going to spend the "savings" on…

BenWilson

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 18:39:02 +1300

Labour won the election by presenting the electorate with a manifesto, and then doing something completely different when they took office.

Well, they did also win another election after that.

B Jones

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 18:05:49 +1300

That wasn’t an electoral outcome brought about through FPP though.

No? I thought Bob Jones' party siphoning off 10% of neo-liberal votes off the Nats had something to do with it. He explicitly set up the NZ Party to get the votes of people who disliked Muldoon's controlled economy but…

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 16:40:45 +1300

It’s almost like the time three politicians managed to drive the NZ economy off a cliff by (as Easton puts it) a very impressive piece of political leverage.

That wasn't an electoral outcome brought about through FPP though. Labour won the election by presenting the electorate with a manifesto, and…

Russell Brown

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 16:40:05 +1300

Wow. I'm not sure I can recall a New York Times editorial quite this angry:

John Boehner’s Shutdown

Earlier in his presidency, Mr. Obama made the catastrophic mistake — in the face of just this sort of extortion — to believe in Mr. Boehner’s willingness to be reasonable. This time,…

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 16:32:34 +1300

Then again, Germans do seem to have a fairly high expectation that their politicians behave like functional adults.

But Germany doesn't use FPP for all their elections, they use MMP, so the tipping gets washed out at those levels. If the republicans got 40% of the vote and got 40%…

Martin Brown

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:55:22 +1300

Electromagnetic pulse weapons can do that quite effectively, too.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:25:51 +1300

The one we might want to look at is the 1975 Australian constitutional crisis, which saw the upper house in a bicameral system refuse to pass appropriation bills.

Which was particularly bizarre, because as far as I’m aware Whitlam had more than sufficient grounds to call a double dissolution, which…

Idiot Savant

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:18:04 +1300

Rich:
The Tory rebellion (over tax and Ireland) lasted from 1909 to 1914, and was only truncated by the King threatening to create Liberal peers and (in the case of Ulster, where the revolt took military form) by the outbreak of WW1. It's a little known piece of history, largely…

Russell Brown

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:13:18 +1300

Should the government somehow lose its majority, I’d be disappointed if Labour and the Greens weren’t straight in there with a motion of no confidence at the first opportunity. That is their job.

Absolutely. But that’s the normal operation of the system, not a constitutional crisis.

Quite.

The one we…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:09:58 +1300

they are infrequent

The Tory rebellion (over tax and Ireland) lasted from 1909 to 1914, and was only truncated by the King threatening to create Liberal peers and (in the case of Ulster, where the revolt took military form) by the outbreak of WW1. It's a little known piece of…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:07:38 +1300

It’s all the more hypocritical of the GOP when they fight tooth and nail to oppose steps toward better healthcare coverage, while equally fighting tooth and nail to keep farm subsidies to Big Agriculture in place. And if it’s workers initiating a shutdown, the GOP would not hesitate to label…

Keir Leslie

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:05:05 +1300

"prioritization of spending" is, of course, unconstitutional. The Congress passes acts that raise money and spend money, and those acts are law. The President doesn't get to pick and choose which money to spend (as that would be a breach of the separation of powers).

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:00:04 +1300

@James: In all seriousness, I can’t find anyone who thinks seriously and credibly about the global economy who shares your Pollyanna-on-steroids view of the consequences of a debt ceiling crisis. I just suspect contractors, state and local government and US Bond holders, foreign and domestic, aren’t going to be quite…

Idiot Savant

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 14:55:46 +1300

I'm not convinced about the "cultural" part. There have been numerous constitutional crises in Westminster model states, from the Tory rebellion over Lloyd George's budgets through to whatever happened in Canada a couple of years ago.

Yes. But they're a bug, not a feature (meaning they are infrequent, and provoking…

Keir Leslie

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 14:54:13 +1300

It's almost like the time three politicians managed to drive the NZ economy off a cliff by (as Easton puts it) a very impressive piece of political leverage.

Ken Double

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 14:39:46 +1300

an $840 billion stimulus program that everyone agrees did not work

"One year after the stimulus, several independent macroeconomic firms, including Moody's and IHS Global Insight, estimated that the stimulus saved or created 1.6 to 1.8 million jobs and forecast a total impact of 2.5 million jobs saved by the…

martinb

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 14:37:36 +1300

Only their purpose is mad…
or is it the other way around?

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 14:35:58 +1300

Should the government somehow lose its majority, I'd be disappointed if Labour and the…

Idiot Savant

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 14:19:05 +1300

Would there be any funding to hold the mid-term elections? I/S over at NoRightTurn seems to think that the only thing the US would be able to spend money on after midnight would be waging war.

There will be other standing authorisations to; that was more a snark at the…

Idiot Savant

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 14:15:18 +1300

So is the Federal Republic of Germany and they seem to be managing without totally shitting the figurative bed

Yes, but gerrymandering is considered unconstitutional in Germany, as they would violate the constitutional requirement for an equal vote. The US constitution lacks any such protection.

Then again, Germans do seem…

Henry Barnard

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 13:56:44 +1300

you can probably guess what happened. Sigh.

Like "anti-smacking"?

James Bremner

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 13:52:05 +1300

The idea that there will be some kind of financial calamity due to a US government shutdown or a debt limit showdown is a load of old cobblers, despite how often that old chestnut gets so tediously rolled out.
While the debt limit may be hit, and no new borrowing…

Matthew Littlewood

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 13:30:32 +1300

Tom Tomorrow absolutely eviscerates the Tea Party in his latest edition of "This Modern World". Then again, over the last few months, real life events have gone so past parody that all he has to do is set the "latest developments" to illustration.

Seriously, he's been in astonishing form…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 13:26:33 +1300

I think they are held by the states. The US is presumably also paying all the people that ensure the military get pay, food and fuel – or soon it'll be like the collapse of the Soviet Union* with the military begging for food.

* Or the Thirty Years War.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 13:16:56 +1300

The BRD has a system much more like ours than the US. The Chancellor (Frau Merkel) is elected by the Bundestag and hence has an intrinsic majority, just like the NZ PM (only without all the smoke and mirrors of an unwritten constitution).

The Bundespräsident is indirectly elected and has…

izogi

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 13:15:59 +1300

This view may alter if and when they lose control of the House in the mid-term elections

Would there be any funding to hold the mid-term elections? I/S over at NoRightTurn seems to think that the only thing the US would be able to spend money on after midnight would…

Ken Double

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 13:05:12 +1300

The Republican hold on Congress is largely possible because of Republican-controlled state legislatures – which can gerrymander the Congressional seats to a nicety.

Robert Costa, a reporter inside the GOP:

"When you hear members talk candidly about their biggest victory, it wasn’t winning the House in 2010. It was winning…

andin

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 13:03:32 +1300

politicians behave like functional adults.
Oh! if only it were so...

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 13:01:49 +1300

I love the latest line from the right: that Obama will negotiate with Iran and Russia but he won’t negotiate with the Republicans. They are actually proud of being more difficult to negotiate with than Iran.

Just when you think the GOP has finally hit the floor, they turn it…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:57:58 +1300

It really does show the failings of multiple layers of FPP.

The United States is a federal republic with a bicameral federal legislature, and a separate executive branch.

So is the Federal Republic of Germany and they seem to be managing without totally shitting the figurative bed, despite Angela Merkel…

Lucy Stewart

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:45:47 +1300

It really does show the failings of multiple layers of FPP. Tea Party are influential enough for their candidates to win a heap of primaries (or more moderate candidates have to sway to the bat-crazy right to do so). Then because they've got republican beside their name, they beat a…

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:37:58 +1300

That would be no bad thing

Sounds great. Does anyone know how to stuff their kiwisaver account under their mattress?

One faction of one party of one branch of government holds the world to ransom.

It really does show the failings of multiple layers of FPP. Tea Party are influential…

Ray Gilbert

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:37:29 +1300

except of course most of them are maintained by scientists who actually want to get shit done

Obviously refering to link then

http://phylogenomics.blogspot.co.nz/2013/09/fecal-transplants-as-treatment-for.html

Richard Aston

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:37:15 +1300

As Mark Morford, columnist on SF Gate said on his facebook page
" Government shutdown. Everything's free and no more war. Nice."

SteveH

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:37:06 +1300

I love the latest line from the right: that Obama will negotiate with Iran and Russia but he won't negotiate with the Republicans. They are actually proud of being more difficult to negotiate with than Iran.

The two things I am most angry about are Boehner's refusal to allow a…

Russell Brown

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:28:43 +1300

So Jimmy Kimmel had someone go out and vox-pop people on whether they preferred Obamacare, or the Affordable Care Act. You can probably guess what happened. Sigh.

Graham Dunster

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:27:03 +1300

As money is in effect virtual nowadays we can choose to ignore the issue and just carry on internally (and internationally).
I'm more worried about the sunspots or whatever that are going to wipe out all the digital material and leave me with nothing that actually works except that old…

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:25:50 +1300

The 'left' plays rigorously to the book while the 'right' doesn't.

Obama could, for instance, issue the trillion dollar coin, which would end-run Congress. He could start bringing US troops home from overseas and scuttle the fleet, cutting a huge item out of the federal budget

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:25:17 +1300

That would be no bad thing

In the meantime, do you think oral sex would be an acceptable medium of exchange for goods and services?

Lucy Stewart

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:19:26 +1300

While most folks focus on the political insanity or cheerfully joke about a day off work (unpaid) this has consequences worldwide for science.

Right now I'm on a research expedition in the northeastern Pacific (well, research in the odd moments we're not getting the crap kicked out of us by…

steve black

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:07:58 +1300

I think the important thing to remember is that having less “Big Government” is also what the Republicans want. So they aren’t crazy. They are getting what they want. When the US Government has to shut down they win. If the “compromise” is agreed on which repeals or delays Obamacare,…

Ken Double

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 12:07:10 +1300

If Boehner puts a clean bill to the House, apparently it has every chance of going through. But a mere 30 ultra-conservatives and another 40 or 50 garden variety reactionaries terrified of a primary challenge from the right are stopping him doing that. One faction of one party of one…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 11:57:59 +1300

While most folks focus on the political insanity or cheerfully joke about a day off work (unpaid) this has consequences worldwide for science.

Jonathan Eisen has screenshot gallery of the science sites shut down because of this posturing.

Does this affect us directly, well not today for me but if it…

Peter Darlington

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 11:54:19 +1300

That would be no bad thing

Really? That all sounds absolutely terrifying!

Dave Waugh

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 11:53:03 +1300

As the nearly half a million government employees sent home with no pay suddenly stop spending on anything but bare essentials, businesses over there are gonna squeal, hopefully as they bankroll the republitards they will let their displeasure be known.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 11:47:46 +1300

the implications for the entire world economy are potentially disastrous

Depends on how we deal with it.

The immediate effect of a US default would be that all the banks that rely on US treasuries as assets fail. You'd expect that basically, the interbank payment systems would stop and within…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 11:39:34 +1300

I, for one, wish to register a protest at my family’s well-being and security being put at the mercy of a gang of crazy people.

The thing is, I don't believe Congressional Republicans are "crazy" at all. They're terrifyingly sane in their mendacious irresponsibility; their fear of a string of…

Public Address

Wed, 02 Oct 2013 11:39:34 +1300

Discussion from blog post.