Of course, apart from the droll irony, this may explain his aversion to it.

Nope it was the firmly planted hatred of the Scottish band's take on his beloved Al Green that did it.

But he made me suffer Bob Seger. Which was the greater crime? Orange Juice wistfully paying…

When Murray came down to Timaru (my then place of journalistic exile) in late 1982 to interview me for the Rip It Up job, he bought me dinner.

I'm somewhat amazed (well not really) you resisted playing the most obvious track off the album, Rip It Up. Of course, apart…

When he and I were sharing a flat between 1980 and '83, he used to get infuriated by the punk-funk I'd thrash at home. In particular this baby:

There's a story here.

When Murray came down to Timaru (my then place of journalistic exile) in late 1982 to interview me…

Ha, how did we forget this?

There seemed to be rather a lot of complimentary tickets going begging when little Mr. Numan played Auckland all those decades ago. The only impression I can recall, from an underwhelmed concertgoer: "How many different meals can you get out of a packet of…

the high water mark of human civilisation, imho.
:)

:)
Nice how this thread's strayed from Talcy Malcy.
What the hell, here's something with no aspirations to funk or deeper significance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5sUfV1Mi7w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m8IOD-wk9g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yXe0GvKq4M

and this ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLCNIZTzg9w

:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JbUP-skb7E

pushing it

There are worse things – like Musclebound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjV9qhnB4b4

Haircut 100 are pushing it

Heh. I believe the operative segue was "enjoying themselves"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNrnmDmffRc

Heaven 17: prime exponents of flink, a Murray Cammick word for that peculiarly British form of sub-funk.

When he and I were sharing a flat between 1980 and '83, he used to get infuriated by the punk-funk I'd thrash at home. In particular this baby:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcKa3sh50oI

And yeah, H17 were…

Actually, A Walk Across the Rooftops was one of my major musical influences also. Still play it, and it still matters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bev4H57si2E

Heaven 17 . . . although not to everyone's taste I'm sure...

Heaven 17: prime exponents of flink, a Murray Cammick word for that peculiarly British form of sub-funk. They certainly gave the impression that they were enjoying themselves, something that Utravox and The Human League (turn a lemon on!)…

Sure sounds like one of those life-changing decisions.

It wasn't long after that I got into Heaven 17, Human League and Ultravox. Different to JD, but also important, IMhO, although not to everyone's taste I'm sure...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqd-JQgb6-I

Not a cosy little group, but not beyond those who have some qualified expertise about the…

Andy Shaw

Tasteful chap

But when we let them do it, they'd want to do things like painting guitars on the guitarist's naked chest (rejected Screaming Meemees video script from Andy Shaw).

Ah, right...

The amount of extraordinary tunes and songs worthy of complementary visual artistic representation now consigned to just aural history at the expense of fly by night one hit popstar wannabes really shits me.

I could've written that 30 years ago but then the gateway was controlled by the NZBC studios…

But really, like so many govt schemes it amounts to corporate welfare – public funding for the industry (labels, radio) but not necessarily the creators. And this artform is mostly ignored…

I think there is more interesting music consumed around the edge (maybe not in the centre so much anymore) in NZ than anywhere else

...and i'd venture to say, produced around the edge as well. If only NZoA recognized that beyond its narrow video/recording funding scope towards commercially viable stuff…

Sure sounds like one of those life-changing decisions..

But a decision made by lots of people around 1980. I was told yesterday by a guy who runs the Factory site that he believed that NZ sold more Joy Division records per head than anywhere else, and we were the first…

I bought my first record. Joy Division Closer.
Luckily I put the Duran Duran one back.

Sure sounds like one of those life-changing decisions..

Sounds Unlimited
– the Imports of Being Earnest
aaah Robin Lambert, nice enough chap – but the bane of my Rip It Up ad deadlines – invariably the last one in and with hundreds of record listings that would never be finalised until the very last minute...

Ah yes, I…

The power behind these was a guy called Robin Lambert, manager of the Sounds Unlimited shop in lower Queen St.

Where I bought my first record. Joy Division Closer. Luckily I put the Duran Duran one back.

heh...substitute the sex pistols and these last two lines could be me.

__ You were self-appointed, an arrogant angry young man. But what it really gave you was this ability to fail, and fail magnificently, as a noble pursuit, and never become a benign…

http://imomus.com/mclarencomplete.html

...now i'm wondering where the spirit of 77 is, who's got it and how is it expressed ?

Bob Mould's Workbook

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LULO7-h5wfo
Lovely.

He's well and seems very happy when we speak.

Oh, and Newmarket: King Exports

Definitely another one of the roads that lead to Nirvana.

Another bigger in NZ than anywhere else band I think. Top 30 for Candy Apple Grey, not even in the US 100. We used to be quite adventurous in NZ and our charts showed it. Not so much now.

the kids that just about lived in his store

haha... in 83-84, that was me :)
a lot of milk round wages ended up at that shop...

anyway, well done to all the slightly older teenagers who bought all the JD singles in 81

You mean all those numbered limited edition of 2000 12"s? I always wondered in anyone ever knew anyone else who had the same number as them or if they craftily distributed these in…

so a lot of 'honest' american punk bands wouldn't have made news here.

Although New Zealand was, I think, about the only place in the world where The Dead Kennedy's had a top 10 hit. We were funny like that back then, all these odd little leftfield tunes used to chart…

The real point is that Kurt Cobain saw Nirvana as just one more band in that tradition, only they had the good/bad luck to become that much bigger. Hence the title __The…

I was thinking more The Beastie Boys number 1, 9 million unit selling 'Licence to Ill', a band which seemed to take a bunch of leaves from McLaren's book.

Just because they were white and making hip-hop records doesn't really make them the philosophical or stylistic heirs of Malc, surely,…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx_QC8rditU

The Dance Exponents seem like Cindy Lauper comparatively.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GG_Allin

I would imagine if there were bands, they had to have an audience and possibly because of the ethics and aesthetics of punk in appealing to the southern cracka ass skinhead bootboys, they would have been suppressed/oppressed by the mainstream media so a…

Firstly Whip it was a huge international hit (how punk it is is debatable)

It was a novelty, and there were a few..B-52s etc, but not really what I'd call a part if the ethic of '77 even if both bands worked their way out of Ohio with help from…

In October 1961 Leggy Mountbatten, a retail chemist from Bolton, entered their lives... Leggy hated it. He hated their music, he hated their hair, he hated their noise: but he loved their trousers.

Yep.

And he made them bigger than Rod.

By 'get', you really mean 'become big enough nationwide to really be thought of as pop', though, right?

No big as in getting any traction beyond a niche and a media response. There were big niches and underground scenes in many cities but, unlike much of the rest of the…

These kids today have no sense of history. They don't know about Pennywise.

and let’s not forget that America didn't really get punk at all until they found Nirvana who were able to offer a nice corporatised version of it for the masses.

By 'get', you really mean 'become big enough nationwide to really be thought of as pop', though, right?

The San…

http://pollywannacracka.blogspot.com/2010/04/duck-rock-4-life.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgDXsL47Tog&a

...the uh conversation. I'lll see your codpiece and raise you an eye patch ?

I wonder if there's a Kevin Bacon, 6 degrees of separation for musical artists linked to Malcolm McLaren.

...but maybe that was a post nu romantic hangover laced with some adam ant and…

I don't for a moment think he did.

Well, exactly. Next up, Chinua Achebe: you didn't say ``things fall apart'' first, did you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxs106rp5RQ&feature=watch_response_rev

And while we're here, here's him doing Back to the old house. Wow, I hadn't heard this before. It's one of my all time fav' Smith's songs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEjNGJKeFmI&feature=related

Was there some comment I missed where we can't post actual McLaren tracks? This is cheesy, but I used to like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuXjoCTxDkc&feature=related

Oh, and I don't want to start something I can't finish [ref.], but this by the Ramones from 1974.…

One more, audio only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39mzrJQdB9E&feature=related

Goodness Mr Grigg you are a gem indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6XxH_NNg-k

Just when you were feeling good about Sandie:

Well f*ck me. If only she'd done it in blackface.

It took nearly twenty years before I realised that her name was intended as some kind of pun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=290VKOBYu7w&feature=related

Most of Dire Straits' videos appeared to be directed by hairdressers. So did McLaren's, post Pistols.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmzz2nfznw0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPDD-D7eCVY&feature=related

Dire Straits – love, love, love.

Jackie, there is a line and you've just crossed it. We likely will never converse again.......

I truly think that his original version of that song (from Atlantic Crossings?) is heartbreakingly beautiful.

Only a complete bastard would dare to differ. This ain't bad either:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UujO_YwaB_I

I can tell by your eyes that you've probably been crying forever.

I truly think that his original version of that song (from Atlantic Crossings?) is heartbreakingly beautiful. Haters gonna hate, and all that.

I even went through a very long phrase of loving Rod Stewart.

I can tell by your eyes that you've probably been crying forever.

And Hello Sailor.

No no no, this lot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeISAc9j0WE

Besides, for most people growing up in the punk and post punk eras, their defining music was Pink Floyd and Dire Straits..y'know the people who now fill the National Party and scribble vicious little diatribes on KiwiBlog :)

Me, I blame Supertramp. And Smokie. And Queen. Even Sailor, a little…

Me, I blame Supertramp. And Smokie. And Queen. Even Sailor, a little bit.

and lets not forget that America didn't really get punk at all until they found Nirvana who were able to offer a nice corporatised version of it for the masses.

Besides, for most people growing up in the punk and post punk eras, their defining music was Pink Floyd and Dire Straits..y'know the people who now fill the National Party and scribble vicious little diatribes on KiwiBlog :)

Me, I blame Supertramp. And Smokie. And Queen. Even Sailor, a little…

the kids of '76 should've reached the heights of cultural power and influence by now but 34 years later mainstream NZ culture is — barring a few obvious examples — more anti-DIY, anti-local, anti-community and anti-political than it was then.

I don't think there was any greater political meaning to…

Like the hippie…

being 'led astray' by some kind of Nancy Spungen figure

Simon Cowell in ripped tights

why did you think you'd get away with nicking that line?

I don't for a moment think he did

(Next up: Barry Hogan didn't come up with All Tomorrow's Parties...)

is it a direct line from Sid Vicious to Susan Boyle?

Now that's an idea to conjure with. While I wouldn't wish it on her, being 'led astray' by some kind of Nancy Spungen figure would certainly make Susan Boyle rather more, um, interesting. The world seemed a better place…

he dressed them up

In October 1961 Leggy Mountbatten, a retail chemist from Bolton, entered their lives... Leggy hated it. He hated their music, he hated their hair, he hated their noise: but he loved their trousers.

it segues into a very electro-fied live re-edit of Buffalo Gals.

Aw, yeah. Like that.

Not Epstein. Effective as he was, he worked in a department store, and I'm not sure he had more creative input than putting the band in suits.

To be fair he was set up as boss of the music dept he ran which was so successful they opened a music…

This is the version you need to find though.

Didn't take long. Ta.

Yeah. I'd forgotten how good that album actually is

This is the version you need to find though. Side one is a hip-hop suite which sounds monumental loud and just when you've had enough of the scratch, it segues into a very electro-fied live re-edit of Buffalo Gals.

I've always felt Mclaren to be Pop Music as Warhol was to art, I'd definitely equated him with Epstein but never with Cowell (who I've never really liked). Nice connection philipmatthews, you've put Simon Cowell in a context I can appreciate.

Not Epstein. Effective as he was, he worked in…

Yeah it's usually how it goes with black music whitened up for airplay. From jazz and American swing bands to UK blues copying bands of the 60's to Kode9 and dubstep recently. Hell, even our own barbecue reggae.

The Brits are special, though. They just keep doing it — Jim…

I'd also see him as one of a series of brilliant, devious and opportunistic British managers and pop star manufacturers that goes from Brian Epstein to McLaren to Tony Wilson to Simon Cowell

I've always felt Mclaren to be Pop Music as Warhol was to art, I'd definitely equated him…

Dear old Karl. Royally missing the point.

I was tempted to go further but held my tongue

What was in my time was Waltz Darling, and I'll forever remember the day my flatmate bought home this record and played it – it was great and thereafter was on the turntable often.

With all due respect to Knox, this sort of revisionist bullshit can’t be allowed to go unchallenged. Attempts to confer musical legitimacy on punk by claiming that the greatest pop band in history were precursors of punk won’t wash.

Dear old Karl. Royally missing the point.

But hiphop as 'punk for the black kids' would have exploded into what it is today even if it weren't validated by some ingenious white guy near the outset.

No argument but I can't help feeling that the focus McLaren put on hip hop gave it a huge shove. And…

I was talking about invention, you're talking about popularisation, which is something else.

I think it's a non argument both ways. Nobody invented anything. They all grabbed, assaulted and adopted.

When I stoppped and thought about this I realised how awkward the semantics argument would become.

The thought that remains,…

Don'tcha think that McLaren recognised this when he (opportunisticly) pushed his own hip hop band wagon

No doubt. But hiphop as 'punk for the black kids' would have exploded into what it is today even if it weren't validated by some ingenious white guy near the outset.

The changing attitude…

I was talking about invention, you're talking about popularisation, which is something else.

I think it's a non argument both ways. Nobody invented anything. They all grabbed, assaulted and adopted.

If you look at the early (1974) Ramones vids they were nicking Beatles & Beach Boys riffs and aping the NY…

I always get a bit niggly when this issue crops up. The Ramones are great…

I don't know if punk started out as a rejection of pop music or life in the UK at that time. Certainly, as soon as it started, as soon as the Sex Pistols began to perform as a public outrage and even…

Punk for me, cos i couldn't stand the music, was more an attitude in much the same way hiphop will always be

Don'tcha think that McLaren recognised this when he (opportunisticly) pushed his own hip hop band wagon

For me the, it's a shitty phrase but I'll use it anyway,…

Few people exist in the music world will ever have the same respect i have for…

It doesn't matter if the Ramones or Televison or The Rolling Stones were the first punks (I'd argue for Robert Johnson or some of the Harlem jazz-punks from the 1920s myself)

You're right, of course. Never intended to claimed that the Stones were "the first"; just an example.

Watch out — you'll upset Karl du Fresne:

Karl could profitably spend time with Don Lett's brilliant Punk: Attitude and do well to veer away from some of the half baked stereotypes in that post.

Punk legitimised the mad flailings of the talentless.

is just plain vacuous

as is

But…

At about the same time The Saints were inventing Punk Rock in Brisbane, they certainly weren't part of any movement.

But I'm Stranded was produced by an expat New Zealander.

I think Malc's overwhelming achievement was to encourage a whole generation out there to raise a single middle digit to…

No reason not to call this Punk, really

Watch out — you'll upset Karl du Fresne:

[Chris] Knox, who is considered a founding father of the punk movement in New Zealand, chose as his first song the Beatles’ Baby You’re A Rich Man, and made the comment that the Beatles…

It's a scientific fact that Ponsonby's kitten population crashed in the years after Prego opened. You can draw your own conclusions.

I told them that wasn't calamari...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TidobN02gpI

We smugly and un-selfexaminingly eat kittens too.

It's a scientific fact that Ponsonby's kitten population crashed in the years after Prego opened. You can draw your own conclusions.

I'm impressed by how prescient McLaren was about the music industry – thanks, Russell.

Sacha beat me to it, but yeah, what he said. Swap out a few words here and there for "digital downloads" and he could have said it yesterday.

@philip

A tendency by those in that industry…

Sonic Youth released a tour video called 1991 The Year Punk Broke and claimed Punk as a movement didn't become mainstream in the States until the early 90s

I read somewhere the argument that in America punk was still really a figure of speech -in London it became a proper movement.

And it happened before and since. Ten years after punk, Britain took house music, an utterly marginalised form in Chicago and New York, put its records in…

McLaren's claim that he "invented punk" was spurious, self-serving crap, however. The CBGBs scene in NYC was fermenting nicely without him and the Ramones' debut was out well before any of the British punk albums.

I always get a bit niggly when this issue crops up. The Ramones are great…

I'm impressed by how prescient McLaren was about the music industry – thanks, Russell.

I definitely got lucky that day.

I've been thinking this morning that he was probably exercised about the nature of record business because he'd just come from an extended promotional visit in Australia — he appeared…

Yeh, and even later bits such as Waltz Darling added ambience and operatic orchestralism to pop sounds which certainly influenced post-house electronica in the 90s & 00s.

The video for Waltz Darling is also notable. It features voguing, a couple of years before Madonna picked up on it.

Not to mention…

Won't be watching it again.
Me neither

Didn't catch it last night but when I have it seems very forced and just uncomfortable to watch, unfortunately much like Sunrise was...

Having said that, brilliant interview with McVicar, it is about time he was held to account, espceially on his support…

Won't be watching it again.

Me neither.

"The record companies still think that home taping is the curse of the industry. It's been one of the greatest assets that popular music has had invented for it!"

C30, C60, C90, go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_R0Kvk7G9U

Policeman stopped me in my tracks
said "Hey you, you can't tape that
you're under arrest…

Thinking about this earlier: I wonder if we should see the Duck Rock phase as at least as influential as the Pistols.

Yeh, and even later bits such as Waltz Darling added ambience and operatic orchestralism to pop sounds which certainly…

It comes after your astute and well-analysed stuff and doesn't do well by comparison. Maybe if they rescheduled it....

Someone else might have said this on PAS, but it feels like The Ad Show — or at least its host — is in thrall to the industry it covers in…

And just a reference to yesterday's blog – I watched the Ad show last night. Loved the period ad – don't think the American woman got the irony – and was disappointed with the non-outcome of the interview – some failure of analysis there…

“For me Malc was always entertaining, and I hope you remember that. Above all else he was an entertainer and I will miss him, and so should you.”

I'm glad that Lydon was able to say this, given their long estrangement. It makes me…

Thinking about this earlier: I wonder if we should see the Duck Rock phase as at least as influential as the Pistols. For a lot of white suburban kids --…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45LQYFaZG3M

About 2:55.