I looked Adrian and I think Tamaki is actually farting. The guy behind him with the glasses has just…

Oh, and I wish I had written this Second Life review now.

That's a gorgeous piece of writing – literally LOL. Juha, you are bringing the good shit today.

Although I notice the govt of the Netherlands is making noises about Second Life being a virtual training ground for paedophiles – I wonder if next they'll move on to WOW being a virtual training ground for homicidal maniacs...

I wouldn't call it a training ground, but so-called "ageplay" in…

I'd find it less objectionable if religious instruction was a well balanced review of religious belief systems (PLURAL....including atheism, agnosticism,...etc), but this is hardly stuff for 6 year olds.

two generations ago my grandfather was ostracised for marrying a 'papist'.

A bigot who knows how to self-censor is still a bigot, though I'm hardly complaining about any evidence that sectarian prejudice, anti-Semitism, racism and homopbobia are a lot less socially respectable than they used to be.

I call that progress – first they stop killing people over it, then they…

I certainly could, and IMO there's a reason why all polling about social attitudes should be treated with even more extreme scepticism than political ones.

My larger point is that I'm sure every one of the sodomites and…

"Tamaki told his followers that New Zealand's government will soon be upon the shoulders of Jesus Christ."

Unfortunately governments still have to be administered by people who have never shown the ability to be quite as good as…

And for the benefit of anjum and deborah, could anyone explain what legitimate interest the New Zealand Government has in collecting census data on people's religious affiliations, full stop?

I don't know, but if they are going to collect the data, then they could at least report it accurately. I…

Um, really? I have my moments when I wish Richard Dwakins and Brain Tamiki would STFU and stop being so hysterical and self-righteous (I also wish they'd be a little less self-serving in their grossly simplistic reading of history and culture), but I'm just cranky that way. :(

For the…

As a "protestant atheist", I quite like that tolerant heritage.

if it didn't mention that religions exist, that many people are influenced by their beliefs in the various religions, and these beliefs underpin a lot of what goes on in the world

Well, unless secondary education has changed radically in the last 15-odd years, it does, in Social Studies and…

I'm getting a t-shirt with that on it.

Atheists rate lower than any other group, and are the only group that more than half of respondents said they would…

well, i guess us religionists would say that you do have a…

Russell, great batting on The Panel this afternoon.

(With the Family First guy, that is.)

I could have gone on. I made a snap decision to go hard because I'm tired of these people trotting out their talking points unchallenged. It's the kind of facts that sound good until you…

Thanks for drawing the distinction between secularists and athiests. I'm a Catholic, but I'm perfectly happy to live in a country where our Government – and our education system – isn't run on the basis of canon law. (I do think it's rather odd that New Zealand's head of…

New Zealand upholds the right to freedom of religion and belief and the right to freedom from discrimination on the grounds of religious or other belief.
paul morris clarified that "other belief" included those who have no religion.

That's not an 'other belief'. It's 'no belief'.

I'm already cross that…

I was think more along the lines of:…

Commonsensists is the preferred term.

but we do have s21 of the human rights act, which prohibits discrimination on the grounds of:

(d) Ethical belief, which means the lack of a religious belief, whether in respect of a particular religion or religions or all…

Oh, and go to www.legislation.govt.nz and…

Chapter 272, Section 103. Repealed, 1993, 279.

__"PART IV. CRIMES, PUNISHMENTS AND PROCEEDINGS IN CRIMINAL CASES

TITLE I. CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS

CHAPTER 272. CRIMES AGAINST CHASTITY, MORALITY, DECENCY AND GOOD ORDER

Chapter 272: Section 36. Blasphemy

Section 36. Whoever wilfully blasphemes…

Oh God, no.* Not him. Yes readers, it was George Bush Snr.

This quote is all over the atheist net, but I can't find the…

Trying to put aside my huge problems with the concept that religion has some kind of exclusive license on 'moral', if that's what they want, why don't THEY do it?

Couldn't agree more Emma, but then who am I to know the workings of the inside of people's heads.

The worst kind of secular education system would be one that ignored religions entirely, as if they did not exist.

Which is exactly what is not being asked for, by anyone other than certain religious denominations who would rather be in more control over what *is* taught about their particular…

Um, really? I have my moments when I wish Richard Dwakins and Brain Tamiki would STFU and stop being so hysterical and self-righteous (I…

Registration required to read the letters – but there has been heated response to judge from that page, eg.: "Wow, it’s rare to see such ignorance, bigotry and hatred without having the TV tuned to the Fox News…

Wait, that was Dennis Moore.

Man, anyone would think I had an article deadline looming...

Utopia required its inhabitants to believe in a god (any god), but somehow I doubt the letter's author would be particularly enamoured with some of…

Surely the letter to which you link, which is complaining about the protections atheists have (absence of religion in schools, absence of deportations of atheists, etc.) is pretty good evidence that…

Chatting with parents there seems to be a desire to return to some good ol' fashioned moral teachings though.

Trying to put aside my huge problems with the concept that religion has some kind of exclusive license on 'moral', if that's what they want, why don't THEY do it? Y'know,…

It always struck me as blatantly unfair that only religionists are entitled to protection as well as instruction so as…

Child: Dad – why did that guy just cut that other guys head off?
Parent: (Draws deep breath) Well . . .

– After having dropped just one game to England in the triangular series, the ABC commentators were blathering on between overs about how Michael Hussey was some sort of superhuman cricketing character (they stopped after he was out for 17).

– Four defeats later, Gilchrist…

It was just too good to miss!

I wonder sometimes if there's a secular parent left who doesn't have a horror story about trying to get their kids a state secular education.

When I was at a state high school not a million miles from where Russell and John Key were getting their education, I got sick…

Not another Craig who frequents these pages.

Life, you see, is like a lawnmower. Just as you need an instruction manual to use a lawnmower properly, so do you with life. And that instruction manual is called the Bible

i think he meant, "we can't have you growing out of control, so we use a lawnmower to…

Oh W.G. Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me....
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind,…

The idea that secular == atheist needs stomping on, it is bad and misleading.

Yup, its right up there with atheist/agnostic/not-my-religion == amoral == immoral.

As someone pointed out, a secular government ensures that cults like the EBs don't get persecuted or…

hah! but that is the same for most people…

It has to go but need it be replaced by education about all religions as Anjum Rahman proposes? Religion is a private matter and there are far more important matters that could be taught, such as participating in democracy and understanding the media.

Political preference is a private matter that…

Having a broad and liberal church as your state religion, as England does, provides certain advantages. Individuals and the state are able to observe traditional rituals (like church weddings, christenings, coronations) without thinking too hard…

oh, why do they always have such naff names?

Presumably there's a demographic that all that stuff works on, and we ain't it.

But theres a problem with "i would have like atheists to be much more involved in the discussions – "

Heres the problem... people who belong to one faith or other can perceive of themselves as a group, and can attend…

I agree with Anjum about Bible in Schools. Mark Easterbrook's assumption is in part right: many of the teachers of the Bible in Schools…

At intermediate, a guy from Youth For Christ would…

There is always a vocal and pushy minority who stack the school board in order to get it set up and maintained, and then residual guilt from the former Christians and inertia ensure it's hard to get rid of.

Isn't that a nutshell description of most democratic institutions?
Not that…

There is always a vocal and pushy minority who stack the school board in order to get it set up and maintained, and then residual guilt…

Aside from the photo in the link, last nights game delivered a couple of other memorable images, the 'see, its easy' look on Gillespies face as he chopped and edged 16 off one crucial over,

The best bit there was McCullum leaning on his bat at the other end with…

I wonder sometimes if there's a secular parent left who doesn't have a horror story about trying to get their kids a state secular education.

We haven't really had a bad experience, although the songbook at intermediate irked me a bit.

I have a policy of not coaching my kids…

Aside from the photo in the link, last nights game delivered a couple of other memorable images, the 'see, its easy' look on Gillespies face as he chopped and edged 16 off one crucial over, and by far the most satisfying image of the…

I've heard some horror stories along those lines, with school authorities really not thinking about what's going on on their property.

I wonder sometimes if there's a secular parent left who doesn't have a horror story about trying to get their kids a state secular education. And it's not just…

snippiness?? i hope you didn't think i was implying that the other things you were busy with were less important, cos i wasn't. was just trying to point out that we did want to be inclusive of everyone, even if we weren't successful this time around...

Fair enough. I meant…

snippiness?? i hope you didn't think i was implying that the other things you were busy with were less important, cos i wasn't. was just trying to point out that we did want to be inclusive of everyone, even if we weren't…

this is better than the current situation where schools officially close for an hour (during the school day) and have someone come in and speak to the whole…

And the way I read it, Tamaki's expressed desire is democratic. However fanciful, there's no way his statements are seditious.

Really? A quote from the linked story:

Tamaki told his followers that New Zealand's government will soon be upon the shoulders of Jesus Christ.

"It's a government that shall govern…

i would have like atheists to be much more involved in the discussions – i did invite russell to come along, but he was obviously busy with other things.

That's not a little snippiness is it Anjum?

I had an income to try and earn and a can't-handle-school child to…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/feature/story.cfm?c_id=1501156&objectid=10424395

(e)To excite such hostility or ill will between different classes of persons as may endanger the public safety.

Wow. If the sedition laws weren't almost entirely abused for evil purposes, they might almost be worth keeping just for that clause.

The number of people liable over the last few years…

Crimes Act 1961 – 81 Seditious offences defined

(1)A seditious intention is an intention—

(a)To bring into hatred or contempt, or…

WOW, way to go Black Caps!

as for secularism, i think christians sometimes need to be reminded that the separation of church and state was put in place…

WTF is the Herald on?

Shudder.

Who would have thought McMillan still had that left in him? Unbelievable.