Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Terror panics and the war imperative

mark taslov

Wed, 17 Dec 2014 17:54:24 +1300

He's got a gun license

The question I'd have is; who completed that psych report?

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:31:04 +1300

It can't be a problem. He's got a gun license, and in NZ, that lets you buy not just one gun, but an entire battalion's supply of weapons and as much ammo as you can transport. Plus you aren't under any obligation to account for where this arsenal went.

Paul Campbell

Wed, 17 Dec 2014 07:34:37 +1300

Given dear leader's recent troubles with that particular oily person of debatable character we might see a move to mandatory shipment to ISIS for select suspects chosen by the GCSB and the PM's office

Dismal Soyanz

Wed, 17 Dec 2014 06:54:51 +1300

Ohhhh. Now I see why Dear Judith was so hands on.

mark taslov

Wed, 17 Dec 2014 04:01:49 +1300

And given that this fellow wasn’t actually on any Australian watch list, it rather beggars belief that Key can make such outrageous claims.

This Key quote from Stacy Kirk’s morning report, seems to have been culled in the update, Google cached.

"We know that as part of those 30 to…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 16 Dec 2014 23:21:30 +1300

And given that this fellow wasn't actually on any Australian watch list, it rather beggars belief that Key can make such outrageous claims.

I'd have to say Man Haron Manis came across less as Osama bin Laden, and more like Adam Lanza.

Sacha

Tue, 16 Dec 2014 22:20:25 +1300

Surely Key understands that by not allowing the (mythical) terrorists to travel overseas they'll have to do their (mythical) terror here?

just imagine what control we will cede him then?
I'm sure he has..

Dismal Soyanz

Tue, 16 Dec 2014 21:09:59 +1300

And given that this fellow wasn't actually on any Australian watch list, it rather beggars belief that Key can make such outrageous claims.

mark taslov

Tue, 16 Dec 2014 19:35:55 +1300

Safety fears for Cricket World Cup following Sydney siege

Prime Minister John Key claims there are two people living in New Zealand who are capable of acting as lone wolves and repeating what happened in Sydney.

I guess my question is, are these 2 peoples’ names going to be…

mark taslov

Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:32:25 +1300

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNZKUozrBl4

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:28:54 +1300

Three incidents in the last few days:
+ an armed hostage incident in Belgium
+ six people shot in Pennsylvania
+ and an axe attack in the Hutt

All of them tragic cases of damaged people losing the plot (although the Belgian incident might, I suppose, have been entirely rational…

mark taslov

Tue, 16 Dec 2014 17:02:48 +1300

The crass opportunism…in a more measured way. Andrea Vance has done great work this year.

My apologies for causing offence in my earlier post, I was enraged. I've just put some friends on a plane from here where it does routinely happen to there where it "could happen" and feel…

BenWilson

Tue, 16 Dec 2014 14:21:12 +1300

It sounds like these events have nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism, other than the perpetrator being a Muslim. It's another mass murder, something which both Australia and NZ unfortunately have long histories of. I guess we'll find out eventually who actually killed who. When police burst into a hostage…

Paul Campbell

Tue, 16 Dec 2014 13:39:23 +1300

Surely Key understands that by not allowing the (mythical) terrorists to travel overseas they'll have to do their (mythical) terror here?

tussock

Tue, 16 Dec 2014 13:20:22 +1300

News is the things that are not happening to you. Unfortunately, our monkeysphere sense says they must be happening to someone, because there's only about 150 of us, and so the insignificant bullshit which fills the news scares the crap out of most folk. Politicians and the media know and…

Marc C

Sun, 02 Nov 2014 23:11:50 +1300

Yeah, much panic, but also:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSTz_bGP9ic

I have seen much more, not to be taken easily, and then again, is this where we want to send our soldiers, it is more radical than what Hitler and the Nazis presented!

mark taslov

Fri, 17 Oct 2014 05:40:47 +1300

‘Odd if we don’t’ wins UNSC bid, the world just got a little more normal, impoverished napalmless napalm testers pack lunches in anticipation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEB-OoUrNuk

mark taslov

Thu, 16 Oct 2014 17:59:23 +1300

Thanks for this Steve, I appreciate this kind of analysis, so much language is absorbed without a second thought, next minute pacificism is not cricket.

Steve Barnes

Thu, 16 Oct 2014 12:48:39 +1300

Operation Inherent Resolve
inherent
ɪnˈhɪər(ə)nt,-ˈhɛr(ə)nt/Submit
adjective
existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.
"any form of mountaineering has its inherent dangers"
synonyms: intrinsic, innate, immanent, built-in, inborn, ingrained, deep-rooted; More
antonyms: acquired, alien
LAW
vested in (someone) as a right or privilege.
LINGUISTICS
(of an adjective)…

Steve Barnes

Thu, 16 Oct 2014 12:23:30 +1300

I wonder who it was that told John Key to start using the word "Odd"?
odd (d)
adj. odd·er, odd·est
1. Deviating from what is ordinary, usual, or expected; strange or peculiar: an odd name; odd behavior.
It is diminutive, it is also hard to take offence to as it…

mark taslov

Thu, 16 Oct 2014 03:04:56 +1300

While I would prefer not to be seen as an apologist for beheadings, I do despair at the one dimensional analysis of affairs in Saudi Arabia

I’m also reminded of the recent horrific developments in the US death industry; untested drug cocktails resulting in protracted executions, and these are the…

Steve Barnes

Wed, 15 Oct 2014 11:48:25 +1300

Jeez. This is so 2002. We must curtail your freedom because terrorism. Key is playing catchup for his bosses, global corp and the world bank.

mark taslov

Tue, 14 Oct 2014 17:07:19 +1300

"What I would say, with the greatest respect to those individuals, they don’t see the same information I see.”

What I would say is that if you have real information that someone in New Zealand is planning to behead someone, best get cracking on ways to ameliorating that specific threat…

Dismal Soyanz

Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:25:31 +1300

According to Stuff, Finlayson says

New SIS and GCSB minister Chris Finlayson said the 13-year-old Terrorism Suppression Act, which makes participating in Isis activity illegal, was inadequate.

"It is difficult to prove someone is a fighter. There are also issues about the collation of evidence and evidence that would be…

David Hood

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 13:30:52 +1300

No, that is the polite way of saying "We don't know what is going on but have our doubts"

This is the polite way of saying scam in general reading
http://www.science20.com/a_quantum_diaries_survivor/cold_fusion_a_better_study_on_the_infamous_ecat-146700

And this is the detailed way of saying scam in technical circles
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1306/1306.6364.pdf

But it is really not worth…

Farmer Green

Mon, 13 Oct 2014 07:01:28 +1300

This is a polite way of saying scam, in LENR technological circles ? :-

‘We have a device giving heat energy compatible with nuclear transformations, but it operates at low energy and gives neither nuclear radioactive waste nor emits radiation. From basic general knowledge in nuclear physics this should not…

BenWilson

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 21:11:06 +1300

It's the effect on the passengers that's the main problem. Bananas on board are an ill omen, 'tis said.

Sacha

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 20:18:24 +1300

yes but how does that cause a problem? can the fish sense the radiation or something?

BenWilson

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 20:16:25 +1300

what’s the mechanism that interferes with fishing?

Having a rotten banana in your lunchbox.

Farmer Green

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 20:14:04 +1300

I’d conclude that he’s either self-deluding or a fraudster.
That is what most have concluded to date.

And the authors of the review are . . . ?

Sacha

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 20:05:48 +1300

which decays by beta emission. This is why you should not take them on fishing trips

what's the mechanism that interferes with fishing?

BenWilson

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 16:33:54 +1300

Thread crosspollination. Graeme fisks Key.

Rich of Observationz

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 14:23:33 +1300

Well, there is a well established theoretical model of nuclear physics that accounts for everything from the banana* to the H-bomb.

Cold fusion is hard to reconcile with this model. If it does happen, what is needed is clearly documented, repeatable research that can then inform an improved theory. No…

Paul Campbell

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 12:45:10 +1300

As far as I can tell there’s just one home grown jihadist right? and he’s gone to Syria, torn up his passport and now after a dose of reality he’s had second thoughts about what he’s done and wants to come home.

Is that a real reason for Key to…

Alfie

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 10:17:44 +1300

Today's Stuff editorial basically outlines four reasons not to trust John Key in any future overhaul of our (his) spying legislation.

Farmer Green

Sun, 12 Oct 2014 09:24:38 +1300

By now , we are all used to taking all cold fusion stories with a large tablespoon full of salt. And there are always market players who will jump too soon (out of fossil fuel stocks).
But this report fails to comprehensively debunk the claimed energy output of this device.…

mark taslov

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 22:05:58 +1300

Or do we take the sensible approach and look at imporoving healthcare and support services?

Now if only you’d been hosting that Nation interview…

Key was very efficient at extrapolating threats but his argument for joining the offensive ultimately seems to boil down to “it would be very odd not…

Rich of Observationz

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 21:51:13 +1300

There are 40 or so murders a year. A substantial proportion of those will be caused by those with inadequately treated mental illnesses or personality disorders that turn lethal. If the murderer's inner voices involve radical Islam, do we regard this as terrorism and find some other radical Muslims thousands…

mark taslov

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 18:14:22 +1300

(disclaimer – The opinions expressed here are not the views of the author but may reflect the views and opinions of any persons who still confer John Key a degree of credibility.)

mark taslov

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 17:50:13 +1300

A “domestic beheading” inspired by foreign fanatics is one of several threats New Zealand potentially faces from the so-called Islamic State, John Key said this morning.

Which is exactly why instead of cancelling imperatives like project SPEARGUN Mr Key should be taking New Zealand’s domestic security seriously.

Prime Minister John Key…

Farmer Green

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 09:28:15 +1300

http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/analysis-the-real-isil-to-ukraine-connection/#comment-495321

Interesting comment.
Conspiracy theory . . . of course :-)

Farmer Green

Sat, 11 Oct 2014 09:21:40 +1300

I also sometimes wonder what difference it would make if the world just consumed less oil………

Funny that you should mention oil . . . . :-)

http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/analysis-the-real-isil-to-ukraine-connection/

tussock

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 17:56:46 +1300

Which took place in the 12 and 13th centuries.
The Troubles in Northern Ireland are rather more recent. The Bosnian war, an ongoing extension of the Balkans Muslim purges dating back to 1812. The foundation of Israel. The Russian pogroms. The Holocaust. The Armenian Genocide. Manifest Destiny in the Americas.…

81stcolumn

Fri, 10 Oct 2014 01:33:09 +1300

A problem which is not helped at all by various Western discourses* that actually limit the scope of the Saudi government, which may be imperilled when seen to be giving in to Infidels. Indeed the current witch hunting does seem to look like that similarly political vehicle of Catholicism The…

mark taslov

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 22:34:21 +1300

Then and there I had to double check the defintion, I totally understand where Craig’s coming from: my post here was bad faith, pretty much the worst. As you said; Good faith earns good faith.

Sacha

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 21:25:56 +1300

In loyal support of all such noble values, New Zealand's government is "leading the way",

Heck no, Nobody likes a smartarse, eh. Best wait until one of them first-world fellas gives us the nod.

Sacha

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 21:21:44 +1300

Wahhabism.

A mention may have helped.

Sacha

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 21:20:12 +1300

Insightful. Thank you.

tussock

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 21:03:07 +1300

I've always preferred the mirror of Islamic fundamentalism to the Christian fundamentalism of the reformation wars. Those thrice-damned protestants with their assassination of political leaders, visceral hatred of music and art and fun, destruction of ancient religious monuments, and strait up genocide of regions who refused to follow their one…

Sacha

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 20:35:18 +1300

When someone pulls passive-aggressive conversational tactics, it is not 'bad faith' to draw attention to those. Good faith earns good faith.

Sacha

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 20:33:12 +1300

Full marks for dexterity

zing :)

mark taslov

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 16:34:21 +1300

Tangentially, on this day in history exactly 750 years ago, the Kingdom of Castile conquered the city of Jerez which had been under Muslim occupation since 711. Though it was not until 1492 that the combined forces of Castile and Aragon captured the Emirate of Granada, ending the last remnant…

TracyMac

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 15:58:02 +1300

I think that according to the rules of heraldry and flag design, that connotation is precisely why no (?) nation has a substantially-black flag. It's a big no-no traditionally.

ChrisW

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 15:50:18 +1300

And the All Blacks are going to renounce their black strip, lest they be mistaken for terrorists.
Yeah right!

Yeah nah.
Perhaps this may help recognition of the fundamental differences in how flags and clothing and logos (etc.) are perceived, in their respective contexts and all.

wendyf

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 14:37:20 +1300

BenWilson puts in nicely "Usually it's just the death business". Yes, Business, Commerce is what it's all about. All sing "Money makes the world go 'round"

And thank you Marc C for putting up the link to Loretta Napoleoni.

81 first column – thank you for explaining some of the…

Alfie

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 14:15:12 +1300

if there is going to be a flag referendum any time soon then JohnKey's personal preference for NZ to have a black flag with some sort of white bit in the middle is not going to fly.

And the All Blacks are going to renounce their black strip, lest they…

wendyf

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 14:11:12 +1300

Thank you. All clear now.

ChrisW

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 12:03:59 +1300

Skull and crossbones?
Yes I'm sure ISIS/ISIL/IS considered this one's perception and reception carefully when choosing theirs, more carefully than JohnKey with his unerring understanding of these things.

Chris Waugh

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:58:36 +1300

Dita de Boni on the creeping police state and the need for vigilance.

BenWilson

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:38:34 +1300

I think I’m hearing a baited hook being waved in front of my nose I really shouldn’t rise to, but I’m certain I should take my own advice and presume good faith on your part.

I think the self-metaphor of you being some kind of slippery fish is quite apt.…

John Farrell

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:35:49 +1300

"black flag with some sort of white bit in the middle"

Skull and crossbones?

ChrisW

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:32:06 +1300

.... still time to include it in Johnny's flag referendum
One small positive outcome locally from the ISIS challenge — if there is going to be a flag referendum any time soon then JohnKey's personal preference for NZ to have a black flag with some sort of white bit in…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:27:15 +1300

Prester John redux...?
John Key is looking forward to going to Saudi Arabia next year to negotiate a free trade agreement.

I mean, can we get even a little condemnation up in here?
Those who live by the Saud...

:- (

william blake

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:23:53 +1300

Eye rack is to George Bush what Wongaray is to John Banks, please don't.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HKBlopQoByQ&autoplay=1

Farmer Green

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:09:53 +1300

I mean, can we get even a little condemnation up in here?

As Johann Wolfgang von Goethe said, "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

Russell Brown

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 08:59:39 +1300

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 08:14:30 +1300

Ratings, what is it good for?
Meanwhile Britain's finest are working hard
to foment unrest in South America...

Joe Wylie

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 08:08:11 +1300

FFS , can’t we find at least one person with brown skin and a funny-sounding name to arrest on vague suspicion of perhaps contemplating . . . oh I don’t know . . . just contemplating will do?

The old John Howard trick?
Tony Abbott appears to have learned something…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 08:06:04 +1300

what is a Prime Minister supposed to do?
apparently this:
With his third-term Cabinet sworn in, Prime Minister John Key is gearing up for a push on housing, education and employment laws.
I dread to think how that will manifest itself...

lynne walker

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 07:57:21 +1300

Can someone help. When I try to watch Maori Tv on replay like on this post, get no image only sound. I use samsung tablet, which is fine for tv1 etc.I really want to watch this so any help gratefully received. Lynne

Farmer Green

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 07:50:18 +1300

Where is the GCSB when a guy really needs them?
FFS , can't we find at least one person with brown skin and a funny-sounding name to arrest on vague suspicion of perhaps contemplating . . . oh I don't know . . . just contemplating will do?

"New" fault…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 06:51:04 +1300

In loyal support of all such noble values, New Zealand’s government is “leading the way”, I suppose, everywhere, on equal terms, in all fairness, so all are treated equally, no matter what economic relevance they may have or not.
And are our universities doing well in the struggle, too? [[http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/10595618/Lecturer-riled-by-varsity-racism|...seems…

Marc C

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 02:12:23 +1300

Yep, and as our leaders are such loyal supporters of freedom and democracy and human rights all over the world, I am sure that The Right Honourable We Know Who has uttered some "support" to the tens of thousands democracy protestors in Hong Kong. He will equally have stood firm…

81stcolumn

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 01:15:26 +1300

I thought he could have been a lot less equivocal about the vile punishments employed in Saudi Arabia

In fairness you didn't give him a lot of space to work with. The elements preceding the discussion afford an unkind line of equivalence to be drawn between the activities of ISIS…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 00:46:27 +1300

Tony Blair goes from "nah" to "yeah, nah" on ISIS as blowback for toppling Saddam Hussein.

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 09 Oct 2014 00:19:12 +1300

I think I hear a no in there. I still can’t be sure.

Fine, Ben. I think I'm hearing a baited hook being waved in front of my nose I really shouldn't rise to, but I'm certain I should take my own advice and presume good faith on your part.

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 23:37:35 +1300

How bizarre, how bizarre, I’d say.

Wanna know the rest? Hey,

izogi

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 23:24:04 +1300

Tonight on the news, responding to the discovery of a previously unidentified fault through wellington harbour, which was last active 6000 years ago

I’ve been thoroughly confused about why this story’s been given so much airplay today. First all day in the background on National Radio, then all over TV…

Marc C

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 23:17:28 +1300

What is also bizarre with the Key government's approach to this crisis in Iraq and Syria, where ISIS has taken control of large swathes of territory, is how determined they seem on wanting to play a role in it.

We are told that we are just too small and insignificant…

Rich Lock

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 23:04:59 +1300

How can military policy ever be based on anything but death threats?

Portions of the top brass in a lot of western militaries have been moving more towards attempting to position/align their military arms for a more peacekeeping/policing/nationbuilding role over the last 20-odd years.

Which is all very well, but…

Marc C

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 22:46:53 +1300

Well, I am impressed that Russell dares to share the Vice video on ISIS here, same as the other video links. I think it is the same Vice documentary I watched a few days ago, and it does not make for pleasant watching. Indeed Islamic State are a serious threat,…

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 22:46:48 +1300

How can military policy ever be based on anything but death threats? It’s the death threat business.

ETA: And that's when it's being nice. Usually it's just the death business.

mark taslov

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 22:45:09 +1300

I really hope we’re not going to be basing our foreign policy on death threats. I’m not sure that ends up places New Zealand really wants to go.

What exactly is our foreign policy based on currently? When it comes to conflict our foreign policy looks like little more than…

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 22:41:47 +1300

There are plenty of argument to be made against military engagement, but that’s not a terribly good one and I really hope we’re not going to be basing our foreign policy on death threats. I’m not sure that ends up places New Zealand really wants to go.

I think I…

Mr Mark

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 22:38:55 +1300

Thanks for linking to those three excellent ABC Media Watch episodes Russell. Much appreciated.

Rich Lock

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 22:01:24 +1300

Well, it all seems quite clear to me.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 21:43:09 +1300

Tonally it sounds like you’re arguing with me, but the words don’t tally up.

Ben, I'm flat out telling you I've zero interest in getting tone policed by someone who could type this: "I’ve permalinked this so that I can hand it back to you when the first Kiwi gets…

mark taslov

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 21:17:07 +1300

Key has no sense of scale or proportion…

Loosely related to what Craig asked; earlier today when attempting to uncover details of George Key’s alleged involvement in the Spanish Civil War, this fairly exhaustive article by Tom Scott was the pick of the bunch.

There were some other interesting tidbits…

Martin Lindberg

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:52:19 +1300

He was referring to Key’s real power, and intention, of putting our troops in there, who will most likely very soon be involved in killing ISIL people, after which a retaliation is very much more likely.

Should we (as in: not ISIL) really be so worried about any potential retaliation…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:45:07 +1300

Key has no sense of scale or proportion...
Tonight on the news, responding to the discovery of a previously unidentified fault through wellington harbour, which was last active 6000 years ago – I think he might have been asked if he thought they should shift the Capital, to which he…

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:41:00 +1300

You mean this:

whether you think Key should (as Mark puts it) ” prioritise the defence of New Zealand” by ruling out any New Zealand citizens’ participation in humanitarian aid or independent journalism because ISIL don’t seem to like that infidel nonsense overmuch either.

was actually a question? It looks…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:31:15 +1300

Multi-polar conflicts can be a tough call.

Some analysts have gone as far as saying the West should do an Enemy Mine and ally with Assad against ISIS.

NYT: The U.S. Should Help Assad to Fight ISIS, the Greater Evil
[[http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/08/13/rand-isis-arab-airstrikes-column/13863321/|USA Today: To fight ISIS, make peace with Syria's Assad:…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:23:34 +1300

Cool, I’ve permalinked this so that I can hand it back to you when the first Kiwi gets there head cut off over this.

Please do, Ben. And when you want to seriously answer my question instead of trying to score cheap and tasteless debating points, I’ll be waiting.

mark taslov

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:22:49 +1300

And nul points for not answering the question,

I answered the question Craig. I emboldened it.

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:19:33 +1300

No, I don’t.

Cool, I’ve permalinked this so that I can hand it back to you when the first Kiwi gets their head cut off over this.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:17:24 +1300

Full marks for dexterity Craig. ;p

And nul points for not answering the question, which you’re not obliged to do but I could do without the usual bad faith crap.

He was referring to Key’s real power, and intention, of putting our troops in there, who will most likely very…

mark taslov

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 20:00:32 +1300

Clearly Mark wasn’t suggesting that

Full marks for dexterity Craig. ;p

No.

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:51:59 +1300

So, should Key do that by restricting Jon Stephenson’s freedom of movement until he stops putting New Zealanders at risk by reporting that might piss off ISIL and their ideologial chums? Same treatment for irresponsible aid workers or tourists?

Clearly Mark wasn't suggesting that. He was referring to Key's real…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:44:47 +1300

I want John Key to sidle up to God and prioritise the defence of New Zealand. Regardless of whether these risks actualise, to dispute their existence shows a reckless disregard for our safety

And that's all very nice, Mark. So, should Key do that by restricting Jon Stephenson's freedom of…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:41:26 +1300

The US hasn’t killed very many people in Syria and Iraq in the last year, although the body count will be rising quickly with Raqqa being bombed.

Yeah – and I don't mean to harsh on nzlemming, but does anyone want to go to Kobane right now and split that…

mark taslov

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:37:19 +1300

Via your retweet Russell:

John Key doesn’t think any action New Zealand takes against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria will put Kiwis at risk of retaliation.

However the Prime Minister says terrorists should never be able to prevent international retaliation.

“You’re saying that the actions of terrorists will…

Russell Brown

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:29:16 +1300

People say that every time, but it’s never true. People worry about what they’re doing, but they’ve still killed fewer people in the last year in that region than the US has.

The US hasn't killed very many people in Syria and Iraq in the last year, although the body…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 19:20:51 +1300

People worry about what they’re doing, but they’ve still killed fewer people in the last year in that region than the US has.

Which is a little too damn easy for everyone to say sitting behind a keyboard on the other side of the planet, isn't it? One of the…

nzlemming

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 18:59:01 +1300

ISIL are like no other animal we've encountered

People say that every time, but it's never true. People worry about what they're doing, but they've still killed fewer people in the last year in that region than the US has.

mark taslov

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 18:41:18 +1300

ISIL are like no other animal we’ve encountered

I found the thematic coherence and comparisons made in Media Take quite strong actually.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 17:48:47 +1300

I can’t find that relevant. I’d struggle to find a war that I’d accept as a ‘good one’. But if I did (I do support some peace-keeping, and can see a peace-keeping angle in this one) devaluing our passport is the least of our concerns.

And, really, should we start…

Ken Double

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 17:32:17 +1300

You're right in everything you say Grant, but ISIL are like no other animal we've encountered. They want our disgust and they want our bombs because that's what brings recruits to their nasty sectarian crusade. All we can do is humanitarian work where we can and wait for the Sunnis…

Farmer Green

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 17:32:12 +1300

There are those who believe that “America” may well be the issue :-
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/09/16/isil-another-bogeyman-created-by-us-analyst/

It is difficult to know just who is pulling the strings here :-
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-07/joe-biden-apology-tour-hits-saudi-arabia

Grant Taylor

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 17:28:39 +1300

I have never trusted Key on anything, Ken – but I don’t think America is the issue here, ISIL is.

Ken Double

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 17:17:38 +1300

National Governments will never quell their feelings of shame and resentment over the whole nuclear-free thing, so they feel an eternal obligation to follow America into whatever shit pit they're currently raining death on. I know I'm just a liberal but I'd feel better if Helen Clark was in the…

Grant Taylor

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 16:52:59 +1300

My inherent pacifism struggles in a situation like this. I have had the privilege of visiting Syria in somewhat more peaceful times (Israel was attacking Lebanon, just over the hills, rather vigorously at the time but life was peaceful in Syria itself). I came away with a great fondness for…

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 16:37:35 +1300

Legitimate ? Really?

It's as close as we can get.

Farmer Green

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 16:25:15 +1300

a UN sanctioned and controlled force.
Legitimate ? Really?

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 16:16:23 +1300

Negatives like our passport, or positives like trade treaties, access to oil etc shouldn't have any part of it.

Well, they're like the wipings on the toilet paper, compared to the full dump. They're still little smears of shit I'd rather not have on me, but yes, totally, the main…

Farmer Green

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 15:45:49 +1300

If you have the time this is a good read from the historical perspective.
If you’re short of time , then pages 29-30 should bring you up to speed.

It’s always good to know what the time is :-)

http://www.mauldineconomics.com/ttmygh/pdf/the-consequences-of-the-economic-peace

Chris Waugh

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:48:06 +1300

Great show, but each of those three segments left me thinking, "That's all? Come on! More! Give me more of this!" Each segment could so easily have been spun out into a whole show on its own. Which I guess is a sign of the great work you're doing with…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:47:56 +1300

The Great Game continues...
First create or inflate a perceived problem,
next devise or trigger an event or crisis,
then implement the 'Draconian Solution'
– which is what was wanted all along –
We just have to be prepped to want it, first...

Kumara Republic

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:40:03 +1300

David Fisher:

I don’t think that the state likes journalism very much. I think that journalism’s very awkward for the state, because it asks questions about what they’re doing … we have a great responsiblity to ask these important questions about what the state’s doing. Sometimes we don’t ask those…

Kyle Matthews

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:32:03 +1300

Please someone make the point that sending troops endangers New Zealanders traveling overseas, it effectively devalues our passports and the security they provide.

I can't find that relevant. I'd struggle to find a war that I'd accept as a 'good one'. But if I did (I do support some peace-keeping,…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:20:15 +1300

yes just think of it .... still time to include it in Johnny's flag referendum

Stephen R

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:17:14 +1300

Please someone make the point that sending troops endangers New Zealanders traveling overseas, it effectively devalues our passports and the security they provide.

But think of the Trade treaty we might get if we do!

Paul Campbell

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:34:21 +1300

Please someone make the point that sending troops endangers New Zealanders traveling overseas, it effectively devalues our passports and the security they provide.

Bevan Shortridge

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:19:08 +1300

This First Dog On The Moon cartoon from 24 September is likely worth a look too:
Isis's letter to the west

Russell Brown

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:08:48 +1300

This story on The Guardian website today is also apposite: The Isis propaganda war: a hi-tech media jihad

Public Address

Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:08:48 +1300

Discussion from blog post.