Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Taxpayers' Union: still stupid, cynical and dishonest

izogi

Tue, 29 Aug 2017 06:24:10 +1200

Busted..... Again.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/96158368/more-than-meets-the-eye-to-taxpayers-union-ratepayers-report

Kumara Republic

Sat, 28 Jan 2017 03:58:44 +1300

I see that for some reason David Farrar and Jordan Williams are reheating this.

How long will it be before they start playing the George Soros card?

Brian Murphy

Fri, 27 Jan 2017 17:16:01 +1300

I see that for some reason David Farrar and Jordan Williams are reheating this.

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2017/01/would_you_donate_to_the_clinton_foundation.html

Does this mean that there is something elsewhere to notice?

Moz

Thu, 19 Jan 2017 14:16:14 +1300

Waiting for their first “James O’Keefe” moment. ... I'm sure they'd love that

Not so sure. I suspect they're smart enough to notice the transition from the media echoing their garbage to the media mocking their garbage. I hope our media is capable of making the transition.

mark taslov

Wed, 18 Jan 2017 17:14:57 +1300

Well that’s an image..

Russell Brown

Tue, 17 Jan 2017 19:38:50 +1300

Waiting for their first “James O’Keefe” moment.

I'm sure they'd love that. It's pretty much what they masturbate about at night.

hamishm

Tue, 17 Jan 2017 19:17:42 +1300

Waiting for their first "James O'Keefe" moment.

Russell Brown

Tue, 17 Jan 2017 17:25:17 +1300

So, today the TU was out doing vox-pops in Wellington.

I'm told that they were telling people that the NZ government was giving money "to Bill Clinton", then saying:

"We dont think the government should be giving that amount of money to a politician. We think there are better uses.…

izogi

Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:56:15 +1300

I also dislike it, but mostly I think because there seems to be so much focus around simply repeating stuff people have said instead of critically evaluating and reporting on stuff with some domain expertise. (That's also about what this Taxpayer Union thing seems to be — it seems very…

Sacha

Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:05:24 +1300

The entire content of the "news article" is a commentary repeating what other non-entities have said on twitter (or similar) ABOUT the earlier comment/action.event..

Why or how is this news?

Strange watching the transition of newspaper websites into social media aggregators.

Kumara Republic

Fri, 13 Jan 2017 01:02:19 +1300

I tweeted to the TPU a year & a bit ago about their stance on 'holiday highways' and they promised a report on it in a month. We're still waiting.

FletcherB

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 20:05:22 +1300

Exception: If your story is that the President-Elect of the USA is continuing to act unprofessionally.

If your story is "the president elect of USA did/said/believes XYZ" and here is the proof (that he did/said it on twitter/facebook/TV news interview)... then that is a valid news story...

I hate all…

mark taslov

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 18:00:43 +1300

judged more on their work than on Twitter relationships

Absolutely. Exclusively on their work even. For me I guess it goes back to the Dirty Politics revelations. I did a reasonably thorough search yesterday and clearly didn’t come up with much, but that Williams’ taint is difficult enough to shake…

Ross Mason

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 17:51:07 +1300

TPU=

Me. Me. Me. F*&k youse.

izogi

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 17:31:21 +1300

Yeah, no worries. I'm also not trying to stand up for the journalist. More just expressing that I think they should be judged more on their work than on Twitter relationships that are largely characteristic for people in their roles.

izogi

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 17:28:37 +1300

mmmm twitter is a good fast indicator that there might be a story – but it has zero credibility.

Exception: If your story is that the President-Elect of the USA is continuing to act unprofessionally.

Russell Brown

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 17:17:30 +1300

And here we go. Jesus these people are cynical.

Bart Janssen

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:52:14 +1300

I have no issue with journalists using twitter or similar to source stories – I enjoy interacting with them in that space myself.

mmmm twitter is a good fast indicator that there might be a story – but it has zero credibility.

So sure you might use twitter to become…

mark taslov

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:45:21 +1300

I have no issue with journalists using twitter or similar to source stories

Well neither, and many journalists reveal their political leanings in the way they frame narratives – some quite unashamedly. Acknowledging these tendencies isn't altogether unhelpful as a reading aid.

Sacha

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:25:19 +1300

I have no issue with journalists using twitter or similar to source stories – I enjoy interacting with them in that space myself.

mark taslov

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:36:41 +1300

Also Izogi, sorry for my slow editing there, I’m fairly sure I’d not completed my initial post when you responded, so the IRD link was not present. This may inform readings of the exchange: I’m a bit slow.

mark taslov

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:59:53 +1300

If it were just the photo, or if it were just the one Twitter account and she hadn’t also shoehorned Jordan William's opinion into that IRD write up I wouldn’t have shared the observation. For me it’s mainly about questioning how accountable an individual journalist is and whether obviating them…

izogi

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:55:50 +1300

I just don't see how retweeting a popular earthquake photo posted by Jordan Williams should have much bearing on it either way.

Maybe you're right that some people will think that looks bad. But with similar logic they probably also think it's suspicious if a political journalist talks to the…

mark taslov

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:51:05 +1300

but that doesn’t seem fair to me.

It doesn’t seem fair to you that I think she’d probably come off looking better? I’m no journalist so perception of my impartiality or lack of isn’t all that relevant.

izogi

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:48:38 +1300

She’d probably come off looking a little better if she wasn’t following both the Taxpayers’ Union and Jordan William’s Twitter accounts and hadn’t retweeted him a couple of months ago.

I don't know much of journalist at all beyond this story, but that doesn't seem fair to me.

Surely many…

mark taslov

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 13:35:45 +1300

It’s her editors, to be fair. That piece of copypasta crap

She’d probably come off looking a little better if she wasn’t following both the Taxpayers’ Union and Jordan William’s Twitter accounts and hadn’t retweeted him a couple of months ago.

I don’t want to bash a single journalist, though.…

Andrew Geddis

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 12:44:27 +1300

The only problem with this post is that it ignores rule 97 of New Zealand politics: If Murray McCully were involved in organising a fund-raising sausage sizzle for his local hospice, he would find a way to find it corruptly.

Of course, if rule 97 is in operation, the legitimacy…

Matthew Hooton

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 12:36:17 +1300

Tom Semmens

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 11:04:52 +1300

I guess Jordan Williams doesn't fuck pigs then. Still, it would have been nice to hear him deny it.

Russell Brown

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 10:55:17 +1300

Or presumably they were fed the story by the Israeli embassy, given the shoe horned in cheap shot at our recent security council resolution?

Nah. No one had to be fed the story. It was announced years ago by MFAT and its partners.

simon g

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 10:36:30 +1300

WHY then would any media repeat anything from the TPU and Mr Williams?

For the same reason the Herald recently ran a piece by Bruce Logan, a proven plagiarist. They simply don't care. Professional standards? No, as long as the "news" is given to them, without work or cost, then…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 09:54:06 +1300

What I really don't understand is:
Given the TPU and Mr Williams have been shown in the past to say things that turned out to be not true;
and in some of those cases it appeared highly likely that they knew they weren't true when they said them

WHY then…

Timmy H

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 09:38:21 +1300

Speaking of facebook, my feed had a *sponsored* story from the Taxpayers' Union last night... one guess what it was.

Seeing it had 100+ comments, I gleefully clicked in, expecting to see a group of savvy Kiwis politely pointing out to the TU that they were 'avoiding' the truth somewhat.…

izogi

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 08:41:17 +1300

Main problems are pressure on often junior journos to file stories fast – and lax, unethical oversight from editors and publishers.

That combined with corporate PR divisions, certain lobby groups and "think tanks" like the TU having basically rearranged themselves for the express purpose of filling the gap and writing…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 07:00:36 +1300

I think it’s pretty clear that these people don’t give a shit what they say.
I'd have thought that Williams may have learnt from Colin Craig's propensity to do the same – or is he dumb enough to just take the money and think it can't happen to him, that…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 12 Jan 2017 01:56:07 +1300

I think it’s pretty clear that these people don’t give a shit what they say.

And they're still no less selective about their targets. Wonder how they'll react when Trump gets a tad too crony capitalistic and statist for their liking?

That said, the media deserves brickbats for even giving…

Greg Presland

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:16:31 +1300

I think it’s pretty clear that these people don’t give a shit what they say.

They seem to think that Trump's success allows them to review what is morally acceptable.

Sacha

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:16:21 +1300

Ignoring the timing of funding commitments and election campaigns may be convenient for evil astroturfers but don't training courses still instil the basic 'Ws' in journos?

Sacha

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:09:52 +1300

Of course not. You can see why people might resort to physical violence against privileged establishment shitheads like that.

Sacha

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:08:22 +1300

As the "founding father" of the TPU he quite likes to push the "scandals" they have uncovered.

Sheesh. Who do you think creates them?

Russell Brown

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:03:31 +1300

Taxpayers’ Union follow-up, triumphantly nickel-and-diming the side issue of CHAI’S relationship to the Clinton Foundation – and not even attempting to defend the original wild claims about aid money being “diverted” for political ends.

Jordan Williams then told me on Twitter that he didn’t have to defend any claim about the…

Sacha

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:00:43 +1300

It's her editors, to be fair. That piece of copypasta crap should never have been published if media were still operating to any professional principles.

Anne Elliot

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 17:14:33 +1300

I similarly could not believe my eyes this morning when the NZHerald had this as their top news. I was really angry the media would post this in the first place, but especially without their own commentary. This is hardly journalism. There was no place to make a comment. Interesting…

SHG

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 13:03:06 +1300

I don't get why this is an issue again in January 2017, especially featuring words like "it has been revealed" as if this was some dark secret that we've only just learned. The CHAI donation and discussion of it was covered by the NBR at least THREE TIMES last year:…

eszett

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:30:22 +1300

Curious whether DPF will push the story.
As the "founding father" of the TPU he quite likes to push the "scandals" they have uncovered.

eszett

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:25:04 +1300

Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity,"

I don't think we should distract from the farce that the TPU is by peddling some obscure conspiracy theories, which will only be used by them to obfuscate any criticism

Tom Semmens

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:15:13 +1300

Gawd that is what I meant to say!

Brent Jackson

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 11:58:41 +1300

Or possibly they were fed...

Fixed that for you ...

Russell Brown

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 11:55:04 +1300

The Herald has replaced the original story with a rather more seemly one, attributing, rather than endorsing, the TU's claims.

Tom Semmens

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 11:14:00 +1300

Presumably, the Taxpayers’ Union noticed that New Zealand was on the list and on Noveber 11 fired off an OIA request to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Or presumably they were fed the story by the Israeli embassy, given the shoe horned in cheap shot at our recent…

Sacha

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 11:07:09 +1300

I don't want to bash a single journalist, though. This is really systemic.

Yes I realised after I wrote that. Main problems are pressure on often junior journos to file stories fast – and lax, unethical oversight from editors and publishers.

Russell Brown

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 11:06:50 +1300

Ah. Turns out NBR reported the same story more accurately last September – but still missed the fact that the project had been announced by all parties two years before.

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 11:03:46 +1300

They know this is aid money for an ongoing development project and they know quite well they’re constructing fake news

They should also know that successive New Zealand Governments have been done this in partnership with non-governmental organisations for decades – and many which weren’t even close to being as…

Russell Brown

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 11:02:39 +1300

Alicia Burrow

Who I presume works for NZME. I don't want to bash a single journalist, though. This is really systemic.

Andrew Geddis

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 11:00:35 +1300

Alica Burrow

She isn't a Herald reporter – she works for Newstalk ZB.

MxDEJ

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 10:52:48 +1300

Who was the Herald 'journalist' credited with the story?

Alica Burrow

Russell Brown

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 10:48:09 +1300

That's how it looks, yes.

Andrew Geddis

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 10:46:36 +1300

Yep – the “story” came down off the Herald website in remarkably quick time. It always was a cross-post from this still extant Newstalk ZB piece (http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/nz-taxpayers-money-used-to-fund-clinton-foundation/ ).

But I’m guessing that with all the “synergies” and “cross platform content” stuff, editors actually checking that a story is accurate before…

Sacha

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 10:45:03 +1300

Who was the Herald 'journalist' credited with the story?

MxDEJ

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 10:41:53 +1300

That Herald link is 404ing and the story seems to have disappeared. I guess they realised, a little too late, that it was all bullshit?

Public Address

Wed, 11 Jan 2017 10:41:53 +1300

Discussion from blog post.