Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Taking a very big gamble

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 05 Apr 2014 13:00:18 +1300

and I hope the process has a much greater degree of integrity than this one.

I can be accused of being biased (I don't care) but I think this govt's track record is proof appalling with regards to care of NZ citizens and our human rights etc so with that…

George Darroch

Sat, 05 Apr 2014 09:53:32 +1300

Furthermore, the panel provided "no documentation for the method used by the panel to moderate the proposal evaluation results".

Which is, to say the least, very interesting. The rest of the article outlines irregularities and possible irregularities. There isn't much robustness in this process, and I wonder what they were…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 05 Apr 2014 06:56:51 +1300

Noticed this is still being looked at in the Herald

But the review found that, in eight of the 13 regions, the panel selected providers "ahead of providers whose proposals had scored higher in the proposal evaluation results".

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 29 Mar 2014 20:01:43 +1300

Simon Collins from Herald takes a look at The PGF

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 26 Mar 2014 11:39:45 +1300

They opened a home on Pakatoa Island, in the Hauraki Gulf.

From Pakatoa Island to Rotoroa Island to.....ummm. I guess addicts got somewhere better to go.

ChrisW

Wed, 26 Mar 2014 10:25:36 +1300

Back on topic, more or less — I see the Government has been down this track with the Salvation Army before, with inebriates —
In 1906, the New Zealand Parliament passed the Habitual Drunkards Act. This act permitted magistrates to declare someone a habitual drunkard (any person convicted of…

ChrisW

Tue, 25 Mar 2014 20:38:46 +1300

Well I'd like to fantasise along the lines of the Nats losing this election by the 'landslide' your pic evokes.
Smarter than the average Victorian, to recognise that Waikaremoana shoreline as landslide debris. But –

__ Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide
No…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:31:12 +1300

The Opposition tapped into the perfect wedge issue with NZPower, unfortunately they didn't push hard enough on it to have an Orewa Rotary effect. Here's hoping Matt McCarten will help make it so.

PhilipW

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:25:44 +1300

Well I'd like to fantasise along the lines of the Nats losing this election by the 'landslide' your pic evokes.

Otherwise consider this a 'all is ok' smokesignal.

ChrisW

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:33:49 +1300

Apologies off-topic but: Is it just me or is anyone else hoha on the government spending such a campaign on selling their attractively priced Genesis shares, complete with jingle?
I'm thoroughly pissed off by the sale itself! Driven only by ideology and political face-saving.
Genesis Energy – here represented by…

Moz

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:29:39 +1300

and ways had to be found around the regulations.

That's what I like to see, the leaders in a rules-based enterprise leading by example.

I read that, and I think "so what other rules are subject to that sort of creativity", but then I realise "love thy neighbour as thyself"…

Matthew Poole

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 11:43:04 +1300

This whole thing reeks worse and worse the more that comes out. Even el Granny things there's a bit of a pong.

If there was indeed a full tender process in which the Sallies participated, how do they not know they placed a bid for the whole shebang, thinking rather that…

Matthew Poole

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 10:18:45 +1300

And I'm still not sure why that's a problem, Steven. You clearly have a problem with the Sallies, and that extends to viewing their participation in the system as it stands as being inimical to their providing addiction treatment services. They "compete" for funding in the same way that anyone…

Matthew Poole

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 09:35:56 +1300

They didn’t compete.

And even if the Sallies did put in a competitive bid, why is that a problem? If they believe they can provide a better service for the same money, that's good for society, no? Or is your disdain for them sufficient that you don't think they should…

Matthew Poole

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 09:31:43 +1300

The money involved in this issue is supposed to be coming from the state, isn’t it?

Nope. Dedicated levy on gambling providers to provide gambling addiction treatment services. It's in the law, even.

Matthew Poole

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 08:59:43 +1300

So why did [the Sallies] just compleat for the funding to provide gambling addiction treatment?

They didn't compete. They just got anointed as national provider of gambling addiction treatment services. Your ire is misplaced.

st ephen

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 08:33:49 +1300

Nice to know the government prefers to have ambulances lined up at the bottom of cliffs rather than fences at the top.
Someone was talking about this in another context last week – National is all about "freedom of choice" and "personal responsibility". Hence no fence at the top, and…

Sacha

Sun, 23 Mar 2014 22:10:02 +1300

bless em :)

Sacha

Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:34:11 +1300

Fascinating. That sounds like two businessmen who were church members, not the church itself. I'm guessing that is their band in the picture though?

william blake

Sun, 23 Mar 2014 16:55:48 +1300

Thanks for that thoughtful response Christ, I think you talked yourself around in the end.

As for the monies being from the state, I think the money is from gaming for problem gamblers not from the general pool. Does the political and administrative function of government wash the money of…

Tim Michie

Sun, 23 Mar 2014 16:48:07 +1300

Apologies off-topic but: Is it just me or is anyone else hoha on the government spending such a campaign on selling their attractively priced Genesis shares, complete with jingle? (I've just clocked eyes on them). I mean, for those in the market, it's on investors radar already and yet our…

Chris Waugh

Sun, 23 Mar 2014 14:39:14 +1300

policy wise

Which of those position statements were you referring to? The statement on corruption defines corruption thusly:

Corruption may be defined as giving, obtaining or denying advantage through means which are illegitimate, immoral and/or inconsistent with one’s responsibility towards other people. Corruption is a global challenge, impacting to various…

william blake

Sun, 23 Mar 2014 13:16:19 +1300

http://www.salvationarmy.org.nz/about-us/position-statements

policy wise, the Salvation Army should not take donations from any source of corruption and they define gambling as corruption on their website.

Sup with the devil.

william blake

Sun, 23 Mar 2014 12:46:17 +1300

The ministerial panel and PWC have, at very best, extrapolated the Salvation Army's' bid to be 'better value', at worst it's slap down for PGF, with no real basis for success from the new contract holder.

If it's the former, I can only imagine that the SA will have to…

BenWilson

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 17:46:30 +1300

It’s hard to see how this isn’t both a disgrace and a debacle.

It's pretty astonishing.

Wtf?

I second that. WTFF? This one should be all over the news.

Hilary Stace

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 17:43:44 +1300

I have been on both sides of the tender process with disability-related tenders at the Ministry of Health. At various times over the last decade I have been either a consumer rep on an MoH panel or part of a group tendering. What I found from being on the inside…

Sacha

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 16:48:39 +1300

Has anyone published the Terms of Reference for the review panel? Be interesting to see what they were instructed to do.

Hebe

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:42:35 +1300

Wtf?

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:25:05 +1300

You can buy more ambulances at the bottom of the cliff if you stop paying to build the fence at the top.

Plus the fence at the top wont help the Casino.

Sacha

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:06:48 +1300

I'm pretty sure the fence would come off cheaper

the trick is you have to keep funding the ambulances while you build the fence, which takes many years

Sacha

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:05:29 +1300

ah, snap

Sacha

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:04:51 +1300

You can buy more ambulances at the bottom of the cliff if you stop paying to build the fence at the top. No more supporting local communities to reduce gambling outlets, that sort of thing. Just counselling the steady stream of victims.

That's what passes for cost-effectiveness in the eyes…

Chris Waugh

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:59:41 +1300

The Salvation Army professes to be completely blindsided

From the same article:

The Salvation Army – which also publicly opposed the National-SkyCity deal

So how much of the PGF being dumped is petty revenge for its outspokenness, and how much of the suggestion that the PGF is being dumped out…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:25:42 +1300

It’s hard to see how this isn’t both a disgrace and a debacle.

So who exactly signed off the funding? Is it Dunne?

Ahh, so as the article suggests, there have been complaints. Follow who made those, would be telling...

Russell Brown

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:02:44 +1300

Wow.

The Salvation Army professes to be completely blindsided by the news it's to take over as national provider than that the Problem Gambling Foundation has been killed off. They are understandably unprepared for the work they're now being asked to do.

It's hard to see how this isn't both a…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 11:43:09 +1300

Look, RossMcA is really the point of this post. Not if some of us do or don’t agree with The SA, although thanks for the opportunity to pick flaws as it might be noticed by someone who takes criticism well.
The point is, why change? What benefit to exclude a…

william blake

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 10:47:57 +1300

We have just been in contact with Peter Dunne with an offer to take over the problem gambling contract from the Salvation Army. We argued the Army has far too many staff (well in excess of 17) and have not "cured" a single gambler since picking up the contract and…

Ross McA.

Sat, 22 Mar 2014 08:42:53 +1300

It all seems so pointless dismissing PGF so blithely. A waste of money, resources and a huge pool of talented people, whose knowledge and experience will go with them. Fair enough if they had done a review and found fault with the service, then decide to go out and re-tender.…

Chris Waugh

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 23:41:45 +1300

With a chain of command coming down from the United States.

Ummm... London, actually. The London in England.

well healed

Well heeled, surely, especially in light of your previous statements.

And is it competitive? In my experience they're the kind of people who'd rather be out of business than cleaning…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:38:33 +1300

Another example of the much-too-cosy relationship between the current government and vested interests ?

via Twitter

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:25:44 +1300

...and is it only a coincidence that Chchch Central's new Labour Candidate, Tony Milne, is National Manager of Public Health at the Problem Gambling Foundation in Chchch?

I guess he'd would've had to resign when elected any way...

It is really, really sad seeing the people who __actually want to…

WaterDragon

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:02:39 +1300

Disgraceful behaviour by the government, and don't we all believe Peter Dunne telling us it has noting to do with their speaking out against Sky City's manoeuvres?

Lilith __

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:44:42 +1300

I find this business deeply shocking but also puzzling: so the PGF criticised the government. So the fuck what? Is this government so unused to opposition that they can't defend their own policy?

I consider NGOs ethically bound to speak for the rights of the people they help. Otherwise they're…

Sacha

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:41:01 +1300

like a sausage

Kumara Republic

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:38:05 +1300

DPF makes the valid point that the Sallies aren’t exactly silent on the harm caused by problem gambling. Shame the terms of the contract will, of course, be “commercially sensitive” and thus not available for examination by the public.

Commercial sensitivity can go fuck itself!

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:37:22 +1300

oh, I don’t have a problem with religious groups per se but I know many who have used the rehab for drug and alcohol addiction and have often heard their views and religion was not what they needed at that time but had no other choice unless they wanted to…

JonathanM

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:28:36 +1300

Yeah, I dunno whether the religious aspects of the SA would interfere with their ability to rehab folk from problem gambling or not. It might well be problematic for those problem gamblers that are particularly anti-religious to not be interested in rehab from the sallies, but I think we need…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:11:40 +1300

Yes which is why I said the religious connotations in rehab, but I should've said their religious..... in that it's primary use for a rehab should not require one buying into the religion. Shouldn't it be about the rehab? Also yes my move into Sanatarium was obviously only…

JonathanM

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 14:54:36 +1300

I presume you're aware, but to be clear, Seventh Day Adventist != Salvation Army.

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 14:39:25 +1300

The more I think about this the more pissed off I am . Screw you if you try to do good and critique. It's ok if you don't care, but you support the Govt. Fucking Crony capitalism . It's disgusting. }:(

william blake

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 14:39:22 +1300

Thanks for raising this Russell, so many smaller NGO's have shut over the past eight years and it is politically easy for the closures to happen with so little public reaction.

Remaining organisations will not speak out publicly because of this kind of perceived threat, so the general public are…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 14:18:57 +1300

if an organisation brands whole classes of people as "more sinful" or whatever, then they should not receive public money.

They have been called on that here and I havent time to find the links but yes, also the religious connotations in the rehab bother me too. Sadly choice is…

Matthew Poole

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 14:05:57 +1300

DPF makes the valid point that the Sallies aren't exactly silent on the harm caused by problem gambling. Shame the terms of the contract will, of course, be "commercially sensitive" and thus not available for examination by the public.

Sacha

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:42:59 +1300

but “getting more” according to the lights of our Government somehow always shows up as providing less to those who need it.

transferring wealth since forever

TracyMac

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:13:31 +1300

Great, let's outsource more social services US-style to another religious "charity". Especially the frigging SA.

Insert disclaimer that I have nothing against Christians in general, and I know that SA workers do good things.

But that organisation stinks for other, more political, reasons. And yes, apologies aside, if an organisation…

Sam M

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:05:11 +1300

Can the public see the details of the two offers to determine for themselves which was superior?

Geoff Lealand

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:34:44 +1300

Another example of the much-too-cosy relationship between the current government and vested interests ?

Sam Vilain

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:29:02 +1300

Mind if it gets a retweet on Twitter?

Be my guest :-).

Or make your own on torybingo.com

Barry

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:02:41 +1300

I'm involved in the governance of a community organisation which necessarily obtains much of its funding from central Government: for several years the Government has been doing this sort of thing. We narrowly escaped having our work being put up for tender – and the tender proposal was not because…

George Darroch

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 11:00:32 +1300

I'm with the Problem Gambling Foundation, and am limited in what I can say today.

I will say however that this came as a complete shock to all of us. PGF has been around for two decades, created problem gambling counselling and then public health services in New Zealand. The…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 10:15:22 +1300

Tories… same the world over

Mind if it gets a retweet on Twitter?

bob daktari

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:41:46 +1300

I wonder if thats the organisation mentioned in the PGF press release?

"While the Ministry describes PGF as a valued provider of quality services it has told PGF it has a superior offer for the clinical and public health services PGF provides."

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE1403/S00100/statement-on-ministry-of-health-contracts.htm

Sam Vilain

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:40:36 +1300

Tories... same the world over

bob daktari

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:38:27 +1300

Lobbying or advocacy is no justification for stopping funding – advocacy work, (I prefer this term to lobby), is often part of govt funded bodies core work – without which in a case like PGF we remain just dealing with the mess at the bottom of the cliff not the…

Matthew Poole

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:29:17 +1300

Setting aside the separate funding streams, that’s just fucking vile. It’s entirely legitimate for a group that engages people with problems to also seek to address the causes of those problems. When those problems can only, ultimately, be addressed through government policy, well, lobbying is all that’s left.

ETA: This…

Hamish

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:24:25 +1300

If so, that would be beyond appalling.

Tau Henare handily confirmed the government's position on such matters.

https://twitter.com/tauhenare/status/446725844044902400

…why should Govt pay a group to be critical of it? Pay them to help but don’t pay them to bag the hand that feeds them.

Of course, if they’re not using…

Public Address

Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:24:25 +1300

Discussion from blog post.