Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Spring Timing

BenWilson

Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:29:20 +1300

Makes sense to give people plenty of warning and a kiwisaver scheme so that they can design their own retirement funds and have time to do so. Way not to plan for the future.

Sort of. Except a lot of people won't have very much in their retirement funds, if…

Kyle Matthews

Tue, 25 Mar 2014 14:43:22 +1300

Labour made the mistake of proposing raising the age of super, but later (after all of them retire). That went down like a cup of cold sick, because far from solving the problem for future generations that the population bulge is going to cause, they simply upped the ante on…

BenWilson

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:27:06 +1300

Yes, and they get the half of 1%.

bmk

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:11:18 +1300

Losing less than half a percent of the party vote doesn't seem such a cost to pay for clearing all the space to your right and not having your image tarnished by the pile of dung that Act has made themselves over the past few years.

This is true but…

Kyle Matthews

Mon, 24 Mar 2014 17:06:07 +1300

National will contrive seats for Peter Dunne and Act’s Epsom candidate David Seymour

I really don't get why they would with Act. If Act are getting their butts kicked in Epsom, their party vote is going to fall significantly. Most of that vote will flow through to National. If Act…

Kumara Republic

Sun, 23 Mar 2014 23:25:53 +1300

And sadly, the skill shortage disconnect isn't just a problem in NZ.

The Engineer: The Skills Shortage Paradox

nzlemming

Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:18:38 +1300

so it is not au revoir… But goodbye

Woohoo! Double flounce, and only on page 6! Is that a record, Russ?

#latetothepartybutIvebeenbusy

BenWilson

Mon, 17 Mar 2014 09:06:36 +1300

FWIW, despite an Arts degree and a Computer Science diploma, my first 3 months of employment were unpaid, the next 3 on 15k pa, the next 6 on 30k pa (which was below the median starting income for graduates). However, from there the rise was rapid, roughly 10k pa.

I…

Kumara Republic

Mon, 17 Mar 2014 00:17:02 +1300

Yep, exactly the problem. They all insist on only hiring trained and experienced employees in the specific role they want with none of them willing to train or provide that experience.

It's the old catch-22 – can't get a job without experience, can't get experience without a job. Even the…

bmk

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:59:46 +1300

But what's good for the business is not necessarily what's good for the owner in the short- to medium-term. Investing in staff is good for the business. A new boat for the owner is probably not good for the business in any term.

Exactly. I've noticed small businesses resent paying…

Matthew Poole

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:58:01 +1300

they must have misunderstood.

Probably. The income limits apply to the kick-starter funding that may be received above what's in KS, but the KS money is yours.

bmk

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:56:51 +1300

If KiwiSaver was compulsory for all employees, then this problem would disappear.

True. I do think it needs an all or nothing approach. Compulsory Kiwisaver with a corresponding cut in income tax (and waive of future claims on Super) or else simply drop Kiwisaver all together and use the money…

Matthew Poole

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:54:21 +1300

It makes good business sense to spend the money where it provides the best return.

But what’s good for the business is not necessarily what’s good for the owner in the short- to medium-term (in the long term, lower staff turnover and better morale and engagement result in higher profits).…

bmk

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 18:54:04 +1300

Their information is incorrect. You can always use your KS for a first-house deposit, up to a cap of not being allowed to take out the government's contributions.

That's good to know – they must have misunderstood.

Sacha

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 16:08:07 +1300

If KiwiSaver was compulsory for all employees

Australian heresy :)

Deborah

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 16:06:48 +1300

In reality it’s you put in half, your employer puts in half (which he then takes back by paying you less than your co-workers who aren’t enrolled) and the government a bit extra.

If KiwiSaver was compulsory for all employees, then this problem would disappear.

Sacha

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 15:42:06 +1300

a direct 1:1 relationship between money spent on staff and money not there to be spent on you.

my boat won't pay for itself you know

Sacha

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 15:39:57 +1300

Kiwisaver was sold as you put in half, the employer puts in half and the government a bit extra

That's how Labour set it up, yes.

In reality it's you put in half, your employer puts in half (which he then takes back by paying you less than your co-workers…

Farmer Green

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 14:57:15 +1300

employees are lazy, good-for-nothing bludgers who want everything for nothing

Easily circumvented by having only a part-time , casual workforce where appropriate. The hours of work are such as shall be agreed from time to time between the employer and employee.
Either the employer or the employee can decline to…

Farmer Green

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 14:50:45 +1300

"an earlier distraction" :-)
Still , it is very interesting, given the history of the Greeens in Tasmania. Clearly , the public has had enough.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/even_in_death_labor_and_the_greens_cant_be_split/

Matthew Poole

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 12:39:18 +1300

I think one of the reasons NZ is so bad for this is simply that we have far too high a proportion of small businesses

A source of a lot of our employment woes, I suspect. Small-business owners are frequently running a partnership, or they're the sole director and shareholder…

Matthew Poole

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 12:35:05 +1300

Another couple I know are just as furious with it because they’d joined assuming they’d be able to use it as deposit on first-house (which again was how it was marketed) only to be told their income is too high.

Their information is incorrect. You can always use your KS…

Paul Williams

Sun, 16 Mar 2014 12:05:38 +1300

Ben said:

Australians have a staggering amount stashed away (over 1.6 trillion dollars), and it’s only a little over 20 years that it’s been compulsory. It’s been so popular that the minimum contributions are now way higher than they used to be.

Going up to 12 per cent, from the…

bmk

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 20:49:58 +1300

If you ever get interested in CNC software flick me an email. We like to collaborate.

That's really amazing because you know what got me interested in IT was working at a factory operating a CNC machine. I had to learn how to program it and from there I got…

bmk

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 20:46:12 +1300

That maths only works short term. It’s ignoring that the contributions are not lost, they’re invested.

That's true. But Kiwisaver was sold as you put in half, the employer puts in half and the government a bit extra. In reality it's you put in half, your employer puts in half…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 20:17:35 +1300

We don't ever use recruiters. I suspect it's in recruiters' interests to talk up shortages as it makes their services seem more valuable.

Furthermore, from past experience, recruiting agencies generally aren't interested in junior candidates, a category I still seem to fall into despite my age and experience.

And from…

BenWilson

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 20:09:06 +1300

One friend was pissed when he found out this was possible and wanted to withdraw from Kiwisaver because he thought the employer contribution was one of the benefits off the scheme only for him to find out it wasn’t really

Precisely. That’s not a good dynamic, doesn’t encourage the system.…

bmk

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:49:19 +1300

Thanks for that info. I work for a tertiary library and we certainly aren't committed to consortia for anything other than a couple of databases. However, exactly as you mentioned we are locked into a licensing term for our the proprietary system we use. By and large the system we…

Sacha

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:38:30 +1300

since they allowed to offset their contributions against those employees wage/salary raises

another charming move from the current govt to redistribute wealth which went largely unremarked.

Stephen Judd

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:35:09 +1300

I work for Catalyst IT. Koha's one of the many FOSS things we do — we have a team that does Koha consulting, hosting, and migrations.

In NZ, Koha is popular with the specialist libraries. There's only one or two public libraries in NZ on Koha, but there are many…

Sacha

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:34:58 +1300

Sacha's observations notwithstanding, we do invest in people

Hey it was a generalisation across all NZ businesses and the sucky culture we seem to have tolerated in them. Yours has always been outstanding.

bmk

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:21:31 +1300

Is that your work? I know I've briefly looked at it before but at the time was so snowed under that never really got back to it.

Just having another look at it now. Is it primarily used by schools, tertiary institutes or public libraries?

[Edited to say what I…

George Darroch

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:19:54 +1300

About half of the Greens ICT policy is about FOSS. However, their policy includes acknowledgement that

– Open Source products may not fulfill all of an organisation’s ICT needs

It's true. I'm involved with the Greens, and we've taken a foreign platform for something important. The alternative would involve a…

Stephen Judd

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:16:20 +1300

IT librarian

Sir, do you have a moment to talk about Koha?

;-)

bmk

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:08:52 +1300

That's great to hear that you are doing that and you are to be congratulated for it.

And I like to hear that about the experience and technical skills being the thing you can fix as I have good social and personal skills but lacked the technical experience. Having two…

Stephen Judd

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:04:03 +1300

Companies hiring in ICT never want to take people with less than a couple of years of experience which means there aren’t enough experienced people to fill the positions and so on.

I am happy to say that is not what I have been doing. I, and quite a few…

bmk

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:02:24 +1300

On that point, how many of these small businesses started out as large ones?

Very few, I imagine. NZ has long prided itself on its small business culture. But I actually see that as a negative. I think of countries like Germany where they have large companies; but those companies…

bmk

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:00:50 +1300

It could be popular with business, if it were altered so as not to be a tax on them.

Most businesses don't mind it much since they allowed to offset their contributions against those employees wage/salary raises. I know several people whose workplace gave the staff not enrolled in Kiwisaver…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 18:53:32 +1300

I think one of the reasons NZ is so bad for this is simply that we have far too high a proportion of small businesses.

On that point, how many of these small businesses started out as large ones?

BenWilson

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 18:52:41 +1300

Labour are just trying to patch things on without fundamentally reforming the system in a meaningful manner – but still at least they are admitting that something has to be done.

Labour made the mistake of proposing raising the age of super, but later (after all of them retire). That…

bmk

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 18:45:12 +1300

Too many NZ businesses don't think it's their job to do any in-house training, just like they refuse to fund their share of research.

Yep, exactly the problem. They all insist on only hiring trained and experienced employees in the specific role they want with none of them willing to…

bmk

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 18:37:37 +1300

The most sensible middle ground is probably means tested super, with a sinking lid as the amounts in super start growing into serious money.

I could get behind that. But it would probably also need other alterations. Such as a higher rate of deductions for kiwisaver but then lower income…

Sacha

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 17:54:54 +1300

Too many NZ businesses don't think it's their job to do any in-house training, just like they refuse to fund their share of research.

BenWilson

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 17:50:57 +1300

The proposed compulsory Kiwisaver running in conjunction with Super just seems a messy inefficient system.

It's less simple, but I don't see it as a replacement for a universal pension, which is actually something that's really good about NZ. Otherwise people with not much super end up getting considerably less…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 17:50:27 +1300

For all the talk of ICT shortages it's only really in the highly-experienced category (five years plus). Companies hiring in ICT never want to take people with less than a couple of years of experience which means there aren't enough experienced people to fill the positions and so on.

I…

Matthew Poole

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 17:13:53 +1300

a lot of these ICT shortage jobs seem to require degree-level qualifications

Which is frequently cookie-cutter HR ignorance of the roles for which they're hiring.

bmk

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 16:58:39 +1300

I also work in ICT and while having a IT degree and a couple of years experience it can still be hard to find work. I have a good current job but know that I can't easily get another one if needed though a lot of that is where I…

Kumara Republic

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 16:45:58 +1300

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/9829017/The-jobs-of-tomorrow

I’m well aware of a big shortage in ICT right now, but my skillset is in dire need of an upgrade. My current experience is roughly equivalent to a CompTIA A+ cert, but a lot of these ICT shortage jobs seem to require degree-level qualifications, and I dropped out…

Sacha

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 13:32:56 +1300

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/better-business/9829017/The-jobs-of-tomorrow

Emma Hart

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 11:44:15 +1300

My policy suggestion to the Greens is this: Stop using commercial software in schools. Invest heavily in technology support for open source software in schools.

About half of the Greens ICT policy is about FOSS. However, their policy includes acknowledgement that

– Open Source products may not fulfill all of…

Sofie Bribiesca

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 10:15:14 +1300

My policy suggestion to the Greens is this: Stop using commercial software in schools. Invest heavily in technology support for open source software in schools.

Big call. Big Fight. Found this by Phil Taylor at Herald interesting. Thought it appropriate that Labour are thinking about this seriously

bmk

Sat, 15 Mar 2014 09:31:35 +1300

For sure. Is a tax-home reduction your only criticism, though? I ask, because that one is pretty easily nullified just by dropping taxes slightly, particularly for lower incomes. Would you object to compulsory Kiwisaver if it didn't cost you anything more per week than what you're already paying?

It's the…

BenWilson

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 23:02:01 +1300

I'm basing that point on NZ conditions. Across most of the country, heating is needed at night, and extreme cooling during the day, not so much. Also, the basic capital outlay is just much less – a heat pump is only a few thousand, rather than tens of thousands. Got…

Rob Stowell

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 20:59:54 +1300

In terms of energy efficiency they should probably tackle it in biggest bites first – solar panels aren’t at the top of that list. Better subsidization for heat pumps is probably next
The US has been putting in the panels.

BenWilson

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 20:11:10 +1300

I don’t vote purely out of self-interest but there’s a point where for all your noble intentions you simply have to consider the impact of a particular policy on yourself.

For sure. Is a tax-home reduction your only criticism, though? I ask, because that one is pretty easily nullified just…

Farmer Green

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 20:09:32 +1300

This will be interesting :-

http://libertygibbert.com/2014/03/14/a-plea-for-tasmania/#more-5857

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 19:21:14 +1300

but I certainly hope Labour or the Greens can offer me something that actually makes me feel enthusiastic about voting.

I'm pretty sure it can be as little as $5 a week and the legislation will take a while so you can anticipate some time until that happens and if…

bmk

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 18:30:12 +1300

But if the policy package makes your pay go up further than that, why oppose the policy? You'd need to see the whole deal – much like the Nats tax switcheroo after the 2008 election.

That's very true. And you're right I'll have to see the whole package. I'm not…

Sacha

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 18:06:52 +1300

I'll be staying home this September

please don't – you saw what happened last time.

Sacha

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 18:06:15 +1300

if I lose 2% (or whatever it is) of my gross pay

But if the policy package makes your pay go up further than that, why oppose the policy? You'd need to see the whole deal – much like the Nats tax switcheroo after the 2008 election.

Matthew Poole

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 17:29:28 +1300

the IT industry’s potential, for instance.

Which is already contributing at least as much to GDP as do extractive industries, but without the huge pollution footprint or shipping costs.

bmk

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 17:06:04 +1300

CGT and universal Kiwisaver, and resuming the Cullen Fund contributions are things I think are vital.

The universal Kiwisaver is enough to make me not vote for Labour. I can only just get by as-is, if I lose 2% (or whatever it is) of my gross pay – life would…

BenWilson

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 16:50:28 +1300

You won’t like it, Ben. :)

:-) Nah I'm happy with that. CGT and universal Kiwisaver, and resuming the Cullen Fund contributions are things I think are vital. Looking forward to more detail on the monetary policy and industry initiatives, but that's a good set of policies. ICT doesn't just…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 16:41:06 +1300

Maybe not in NZ. I worked with a coder in London who doubled as an Essex publican. He wrote great code in the morning, but not after lunch. I once commented his code with:

#ifdef BARRY_IS_SOBER
..lines and lines of it...
#endif

Also, he punched the CEO out…

Hebe

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 16:15:46 +1300

On yer bike, eh?

On yer byte more like.

Joe Wylie

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 15:57:09 +1300

Mining today isn’t done by headbutting ya way through’t seam with pick’n shovel if ya lucky, you know. They use electrics and computers and geology and stuff.
My brother was roughly apprehended by an off-duty miner in the Charleston pub not so many years ago. After grabbing him from behind…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 15:49:27 +1300

On yer bike, eh?
Norman Tebbit?

Tebbit is often misquoted as saying directly to the unemployed "get on your bike and look for work"

Bugger, I kinda hoped it was a direct quote but it is what he meant I reckon.
Bloody Tories never change their spots eh?.

Sacha

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 15:45:10 +1300

since forever

Keir Leslie

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 15:39:22 +1300

Local miners will do the same as many others have done as the world has moved on – find a different type of work that’s viable and valuable, or shift to another place

On yer bike, eh?

Steve Barnes

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 15:35:30 +1300

Not all services are as valuable.

Fletchers take note.

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 15:29:52 +1300

the PDP/11 was apparently capable of continued operation when almost full of coal dust.

Ha! sounds like what t'others looks like now!
Yes I'm being figurative a bit here. I'll shuddup now. Can you tell I'm convalescing :)

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 15:23:07 +1300

Not all services are as valuable.

Perhaps that's why people stick to and protect what they do do well. They feel valuable, no matter what industry they are in, and no matter what living they eke out. To be told you are now unemployed ,you are now redundant because your…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 15:11:43 +1300

Maintain data centre plant?

Mining today isn't done by headbutting ya way through't seam with pick'n shovel if ya lucky, you know. They use electrics and computers and geology and stuff. I worked with a programmer many years ago who'd started off with the Coal Board – the PDP/11 was…

Sacha

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:56:37 +1300

I’m by no means convinced that a growing services industry is a particularly dynamic formula for growth. It’s still labouring.

Accountants and lawyers would probably agree. Consulting to the rest of the world is a better option. Not all services are as valuable.

Sacha

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:54:12 +1300

Local miners will do the same as many others have done as the world has moved on – find a different type of work that’s viable and valuable, or shift to another place. How we support them in that transition is the question, but frankly there aren’t many of them…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:48:24 +1300

The Greens seem to have a decent grasp of the IT industry’s potential, for instance.

True, but whats a miner gonna do in the IT Industry, not meaning to be stereotypical clothcap tofu eater of which, hmmmmm....

Sacha

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:48:23 +1300

A lot of the value-add to farming over recent years has been from IT/communications investment and professional consultants in areas like livestock, soil/grass, finance and energy.

Food tech also has its place but more likely to be particular niches and high-value brand marketing, not big smokestacks that other countries will…

Sacha

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:45:09 +1300

David Cunliffe delivers speech to business-ey audience about Labour's economic vision. You won't like it, Ben. :)

BenWilson

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:39:58 +1300

Huge likelihood they will be services, knowledge and creative in focus.

We're still a fair way from shaking ourselves free from primary production, though. These are still highly lucrative businesses. And if we want to value-add to that, a future involving factories is not a crazy idea, should not be…

Sacha

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:27:26 +1300

it’s those cloth-cap-wearing tofu-eaters who really upset things..

Sacha

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:25:34 +1300

high and mighty middle class tofu eaters

helpful stereotypes, we has them

Sacha

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:22:11 +1300

The Greens do see the need for employment

Ah, snap.

And the jobs of our future are not factory ones. Huge likelihood they will be services, knowledge and creative in focus. Romanticising some cloth-cap past does nobody any favours. The Greens seem to have a decent grasp of the IT…

BenWilson

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:19:31 +1300

The seabed and foreshore bill was passed into law. When the Greens a support partner to the Labor led government.

I don't think the Greens were a support partner. Labour was with Progressives and UF, IIRC. The Greens would not support Labour because of the GE flap. I think people…

Keir Leslie

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:09:40 +1300

Hey, Damien O'Connor's made a career out of that. Fuck him and all, but it's a split that the Greens are quite happy to fall on one side of, and Labour has to bridge.

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 14:02:39 +1300

I think that’s probably more typical than the idea of a tightly knit community of tenth generation miners.

Yes there are those guys and so be it. However Pike River showed a community, family, with intergenerational miners. that's what NZers see. Interestingly Denniston is hugely important to the Greens now…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 13:45:00 +1300

They see family ties, community, place of birth, job,history, much as Labour supports and stemming from way back in Waihi I imagine

Maybe a few, but I know a guy who works at Stockton, and he has no background in mining and got into it because he gets paid a…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 13:42:55 +1300

solar panels aren’t at the top of that list. Better subsidization for heat pumps is probably next,

How about both, choice of one or the other, I mean I want more panels but can understand how others would want heat pumps for convenience.

BenWilson

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 13:36:35 +1300

Not really because Labour is going to be the dominant partner this decade. Policy concessions rather than merging will be the price of Greens’ support.

OK, but that's essentially what I'm saying: Piecemeal policy concessions don't work very well in the favour of the Greens at all, makes them just…

BenWilson

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 13:34:08 +1300

FWIW, I think such Green initiatives as have been widely adopted so far for jobs have actually been both popular and sucessful. I don't know anyone who isn't grateful for making better insulation in their house affordable. That kind of thing is gold for votes, IMHO, in the same kind…

Hebe

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 13:29:38 +1300

These are conundrums for a Green/Labour coalition, and they should get a plan together.

Not really because Labour is going to be the dominant partner this decade. Policy concessions rather than merging will be the price of Greens' support.

BenWilson

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 13:21:45 +1300

I’m not saying I entirely agree, or that I think it’s enough, but I don’t think it’s fair to say the Greens don’t care if people can’t get work.

No, it's not fair, but it is fair to ask how they propose to decrease unemployment levels. Certainly it's very fair…

Hebe

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 13:18:50 +1300

Agree. But it's not us who let the swinging voter--or the likes of Peter Dunne-- set our country's direction. It's the system wherein micro-polling and its results are a matter of routine for crucial-vote harvesting.

BTW, who does Roy Morgan poll for? I had a call, seeking a respondent with…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 13:12:15 +1300

Secure jobs in mining and drilling?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9760927/29-jobs-go-as-mine-production-delayed
http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/9821753/Anadarko-pulls-plug-on-NZ-drilling

Yep. It's not unwashed greenies who've put the brakes on mining, it's the bean counters at the big end of town.

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 13:00:07 +1300

That pointless arguing is why the swinging voters refuse to vote for Labour and to let a Labour-Green coalition into power.

So why on earth, Planet earth we all live on,do we let the swinging voter make up our minds?
The mining thing, Miners don't just see it as mining…

Hebe

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:36:14 +1300

a well-off urban liberal

Oh man, remember when this meme was "Chardonnay Socialist" and it was about Labour? Good times.

This.

That pointless arguing is why the swinging voters refuse to vote for Labour and to let a Labour-Green coalition into power. National's strategists know this and exploit it to…

Steve Barnes

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:30:32 +1300

what’s more they act like light, and smoke, too
mutable particle waveform hybrids
if you know where they are,
you don’t know their speed
but if you know their speed,
ya don’t know where they are at
most of the time they are
neither here nor there…
As usual Ian,…

Paul Williams

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:12:49 +1300

linger said:

Can we go back to first principles here: just why should we believe that the known history of the Australian Labor and Green Parties should have much relevance for the future of the NZ Labour and Green Parties?

I'd not want to overstate it – electoral systems and…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:02:27 +1300

coal for making steel

has not been doing very well either. The price was driven up by the demand to make rebar for all those Chinese construction projects (ghost cities and so on). Now that's collapsing, which is why after cheming up the ground of the Denniston Plateau, Bathurst are…

Steve Withers

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:02:00 +1300

Looks like Peters may be there either way.....

Emma Hart

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:58:48 +1300

a well-off urban liberal

Oh man, remember when this meme was "Chardonnay Socialist" and it was about Labour? Good times.

Kumara Republic

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:51:13 +1300

Regarding oil & gas, if NZ absolutely has to drill holes in the ground or ocean, then it could do worse than to take the Norwegian approach instead of the Texan or British approach. The last thing NZ needs is to be treated like a banana republic where most of the…

Matthew Poole

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:41:42 +1300

But really, if you live in Westport and you would quite like to get work, being told “you’re a dinosaur” by a well-off urban liberal isn’t very satisfying.

No, it's not, but if you care about getting work you might want to pay attention to your long-term prospects rather than…

Keir Leslie

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:33:11 +1300

Of course not! And I totally think that the extractive industries are broadly speaking sunset industries. But really, if you live in Westport and you would quite like to get work, being told "you're a dinosaur" by a well-off urban liberal isn't very satisfying.

Hebe

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:31:13 +1300

The dinosaur thinking associated with viewing the extraction of dead dinosaurs from the earth as being of vital economic and employment importance is never going to be swayed to thinking of the Greens as anything other than economic vandals who won't be happy until the entire country is occupied by…

Matthew Poole

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:24:51 +1300

You can see why a guy working in a coal mine on the West Coast [or an oil rig in Taranaki, or some other extractive industry] might not find [the Green's employment policy] a super reassuring policy, to be honest.

Sure, but you know what? Extractive industries don't actually employ…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:16:43 +1300

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:13:15 +1300

Off the top of my head and without looking stuff up, you have:
Macroeconomic measures:
– fiscal measures such as a capital gains tax to reduce property inflation, allowing:
– lower interest rates, possibly QE (the actual settings would depend on the circumstances, appropriate settings after a China crash will…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:12:35 +1300

*I knew I forgot someone,and I was looking for an ‘N’Doh!Now I’ve missed my final edit window

Mike Williams had something to say about that at Granny

Technicality it seams...

As I facilitated the donation in question, I can report – for the first time – that Peters was in fact…

Hebe

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:12:23 +1300

Or possibly it’s roots are in people who object to being lectured to like this.
Jumpy like that is a bother Tom. I am not lecturing; I'm saying that it's what I see as the gulf between my thinking and some wings of the Labour Party.

I resent the out-greening…

Emma Hart

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:09:34 +1300

You can see why a guy working in a coal mine on the West Coast [or an oil rig in Taranaki, or some other extractive industry] might not find that a super reassuring policy, to be honest.

Yes, I can. I have family who work in those industries. But without…

Keir Leslie

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:04:00 +1300

You can see why a guy working in a coal mine on the West Coast [or an oil rig in Taranaki, or some other extractive industry] might not find that a super reassuring policy, to be honest.

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 10:58:25 +1300

= Muddle Earth!
shortened to general Merth!

= Fiddle Earth
gets violins off the streets...

Sacha

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 10:51:34 +1300

my most central question to the Greens at every turn “what is your actual plan regarding employment?”

https://www.greens.org.nz/policy/work-and-employment-policy

Tim Hannah

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 10:43:28 +1300

You should read Meteria's third reading speech on the Foreshore and Seabed bill – about a third of the way down this page.

This Parliament is at a pivotal moment in our nation’s history: to return to our paternalistic past, or take the path of justice and peace, and…

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 10:43:21 +1300

Does that leave NZ First as Flat Earth?
Perfect – should supplant No Vote*
Everything is mutable
Scorched Earth could
play musical chairs...

*I knew I forgot someone,
and I was looking for an 'N'
Doh!

Now I've missed
my final edit window
a cursory existence
winked out...

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 10:39:46 +1300

and the entire collection = Muddle Earth!

The entire collection = Fiddle Earth ;)

Leaving an opening for Cannabis Party = Planted Earth.

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 10:33:58 +1300

I’m not saying I entirely agree, or that I think it’s enough,

That’s my headspace. Plus WINZ and work? They are not helpful. Not that I think that everyone needs to work. some people are not cut out to or don’t wat to and who am I to disagree with…

linger

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 10:33:43 +1300

so: Conservatives = Flat Earth;
NZF = My* Little Corner Of The Earth...
and the entire collection = Muddle Earth!

* "Our" would be too inclusive for them.

Emma Hart

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 10:22:53 +1300

It may be the wrong question, I think the answer is likely to be that they actually don’t see the need for employment in the same way, or at least to the same degree, but I do really want to hear them say that, if so.

The Greens do [[https://www.greens.org.nz/policysummary/work-and-employment-policy-summary|see…

BenWilson

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 10:01:16 +1300

Just saying.

And not for the first time! But that doesn't make it less of a valid point. It's certainly my most central question to the Greens at every turn "what is your actual plan regarding employment?". It may be the wrong question, I think the answer is likely to…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 09:43:04 +1300

(Does that leave NZ First as Flat Earth? possibly a label more suiting the Conservatives though.)

NZ First is NZ's Earth!
Conservs def Flat Earth.

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 09:39:04 +1300

It’s be a real pity if you felt you couldn’t comment for awhile for having your tone misunderstood.

It happens all the time on PAS. Ben seemed fine to me too. So many of us lived in parts of Australia and got different things from it, (for me ,to remember…

Sofie Bribiesca

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 09:20:59 +1300

To me the main difference lies in some Labourites who are entrenched in smokestack industrial-age concepts and thinking,

So some blokes walk into a pub....
The preppies are already there since Lunchtime. They had a meeting.
The Publican announces " next week we are a wine bar, should please everyone"…

Tom Semmens

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 09:12:15 +1300

To me the main difference lies in some Labourites who are entrenched in smokestack industrial-age concepts and thinking…

Or possibly it’s roots are in people who object to being lectured to like this.

Perhaps the Labour party is, just possibly, an organisation that doesn’t like being patronised by high and…

linger

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:54:03 +1300

(Does that leave NZ First as Flat Earth? possibly a label more suiting the Conservatives though.)

Ian Dalziel

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:44:37 +1300

Chaos theory…
New Zealand Labour/Green schism
after The Rupture
who will be Left behind?

The full continuum includes:

United Future – Groomed Earth
National – Sold Earth
Conservatives – Square Earth
Act – Bizarro Earth
Labour – Salt of the Earth
Maori – Our Earth
Independent – Promise the Earth…

bmk

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:01:38 +1300

you could consider the way you respond to new and alternative voices

OK, noted.

Ben – I thought you were perfectly respectful and responded fine. You argued the statement and didn't insult – there are some regulars here who can be actually abusive to newcomers and yet I don't see…

Hebe

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 00:34:27 +1300

I have been puzzling about the New Zealand Labour/Green schism for a couple of decades. There are so many similarities in basic principles, yet so much hair-splitting of policy detail.
To me the main difference lies in some Labourites who are entrenched in smokestack industrial-age concepts and thinking, and who…

BenWilson

Fri, 14 Mar 2014 00:02:52 +1300

you could consider the way you respond to new and alternative voices

OK, noted.

Rob Stowell

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 22:10:28 +1300

s that the same Labor/Greens that denied Maori there legal ownership of the seabed and foreshore.
Pretty sure the Greens didn't vote for that piece of ... dumb. Is 2014's Labour the same Labour as 2004's?
I hope not.

Paul Williams

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:48:04 +1300

Indeed, whereas NZ has had significant numbers of them for over a decade. We do actually have our own experiences to go on.

Ben, yup, it’s also useful to recognise that the NZ experience is a variation on a theme that can be observed internationally and across different electoral systems.…

Rob Stowell

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:36:09 +1300

Yeah. But you don’t need history to work out a meltdown between Labour and the Greens in government would be a major betrayal of both’s voters, sink the careers of their leaders, and could make both parties unelectable for a decade.
No guarantee it won’t happen, but very powerful incentives…

BenWilson

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:18:42 +1300

I like to think that people might be able to learn from history. If Tasmania has a lesson to teach, maybe it can also be learned from.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:12:18 +1300

My understanding is that there are two sorts of Labour activist in NZ: those who would have joined the Greens, but their Aunty wouldn't have a bar of it, and those who would have joined National, but similarly would suffer the wrath of Aunt(ies).

Rob Stowell

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:07:14 +1300

both parties here seem to express a lot of the same level of emotions and thoughts about similar issues in a proven context. Historically they ultimately tore each other to pieces in Tasmania.
Well that’s handed NZ to National for another 6-9 years.
But … as someone who’s voted both…

BenWilson

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 21:06:18 +1300

Come, come, there's no need for theater. Most people are supporting you.

This is a bit of a distraction to the main issue?

Totally. Ozzie's experience might be relevant but surely that can be challenged without generating flounces.

The point leading to this discussion was that in Australia, the Greens…

linger

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 20:16:01 +1300

Phil Wallington

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 19:09:07 +1300

I was never intending to promise that Labour and Greens could not work as a coalition in NZ.
I have my doubts because both parties here seem to express a lot of the same level of emotions and thoughts about similar issues in a proven context. Historically they ultimately tore…

Phil Wallington

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:31:38 +1300

I was never intending to promise that Labour and Green could not work as a coalition in NZ.
I have my doubts because both parties here seem to express a lot of the same level of emotions and thoughts about similar issues in a proven context where they ultimately tore…

Matthew Poole

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 17:02:14 +1300

There seems to be an undercurrent of sour grapes when it comes to relations between NZ’s major urban centres and the current lot in the Beehive.

Well, when MP number 2 (and the Minister of Finance) is a sheep farmer from rural Southland who's never actually worked anywhere except the…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:45:28 +1300

It’s just going to get fucked over by the bastards in the Beehive whenever they don’t like how things are going, as we have seen with the current government and its relationships with Canterbury and Auckland.

You can add Wellington to the list as well, and it’s not just about…

Paul Williams

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:40:28 +1300

I did not at any point say that Tasmanians aren’t subject to Tasmanian laws. But NZers are not subject to laws from any higher source than our own Parliament and that is a major point of difference to a state government. The buck stops with Parliament, here.

It wasn't clear…

Sacha

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 15:07:24 +1300

I love how the Aussies have "Shires".

SteveH

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 14:48:41 +1300

My point was anecdotal. I didn’t really want to make a big deal out of it, other than to say that comparing the behaviour of a national political organization to regional one is suspect, because people don’t think about them in the same way at all.

When I lived in…

Matthew Poole

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 14:45:26 +1300

Furthermore, Auckland holds a third of the population of NZ. As an administrative proportion of NZ, it is bigger than any state of Australia. It administers a gigantic chunk of NZ’s infrastructure. But collective interest in the politics is way lower.

The political interest in local body politics in NZ…

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 13:58:23 +1300

My point was anecdotal. I didn’t really want to make a big deal out of it,

Ha! You think that works aroun' here? ;)

Joe Wylie

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 13:27:05 +1300

If you want to make strong statements about the incompatibility of the NZ Greens with NZ Labour, then Tasmanian state government wrangling is not a particularly powerful example.
That seems unnecessarily high-handed. While there are obvious differences between the Tasmanian and NZ situation, the experience of the first real power-sharing…

BenWilson

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 13:22:18 +1300

Fine, I'll drop using wonk. But point still stands, just because the head of News is really interested in the state politics doesn't make the average person interested.

Paul, I'm not seeing where you're pointing out any factual errors in what I've said, except for perhaps the relative level of…

Idiot Savant

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 13:13:46 +1300

According to the bits in the Cabinet Manual that have been put front-and-centre with Collins' indiscretions, that perceived conflict is a big problem.

Yes, it is.

And the Cabinet manual is online; you can read the sections on conduct and conflicts of interest here.

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 13:12:30 +1300

It’s not like Cantabrians are overly thrilled about the EDFZ’s continued existence, either.

So I hope they are complaining to someone like... Cosgrove, Dyson, Cunliffe, Robertson, Jones, Sage, Norman etc, etc. I've mentioned it. A barrage (geddit ;) could help.

Matthew Poole

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:53:25 +1300

As both a backbencher and Minister of the Environment, Amy Adams may have derived substantial benefit from the eCan takeover and what followed.

If that’s the case and she didn’t comprehensively declare any conflicts of interest, she must resign, reckons Rob Salmond.

As I said on Facebook, Adams being the…

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:49:04 +1300

Wellington doesn’t *have* a Beltway

You wait. Brownlee's got a plan in his office. Six lanes through Eastbourne, tunnel under the harbour entrance, down past the airport, big causeway through Island Bay and back through the former sites of Brooklyn and Aro Valley.

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:46:08 +1300

And another one: citizenships for National party donors.

(I've noticed Fairfux often bury the contentious stuff, like Chalkie's fisking of the Electricity Authority in the business pages).

Sofie Bribiesca

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:45:11 +1300

Wellington doesn’t *have* a Beltway, and hearing it always makes me think the user is just fantasising they’re a character in The West Wing.

I've thought that too. Who first said or penned it in NZ? Yes, yes , why am I googling you ?......I'll go 'av a look.

Paul Williams

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:29:30 +1300

Ben, it's not hugely material to this discussion, but you're not correct on the relative powers of states and the feds or on their respective budget responsibilities or, for that matter, on the level of interest.

Tasmanian state laws govern Tasmanians as do federal laws, however they cover different activities.…

NBH

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:20:55 +1300

If you’re offended by being called a wonk, I apologize. It’s a label that I’ve never encountered any offence before at, wonks are usually proud of it.

As someone who's occasionally had the term applied to me, I can say I find it intensely annoying. But then I also can't…

BenWilson

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:41:47 +1300

You were also ignorant about the continuing existence of Tasmanian Aborigines

No, I really wasn’t. I was being glib because I didn’t want to lay out the really sorry history, which is starkly different to that of NZ. It would send this discussion south in no time at all.

I…

Phil Wallington

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:14:47 +1300

Gave a few facts to back up you views...

Phil Wallington

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:13:47 +1300

I am "a wonk" because I have raised some inconvenient facts of which you were ignorant. You were also ignorant about the continuing existence of Tasmanian Aborigines. The fact is in Tasmania, Labour and Greens have been engaged in several disastrous political coalition governments. The political systems of both countries…

Lilith __

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 10:32:48 +1300

I really don’t see how the Adams thing isn’t orders of magnitude more serious than Collins and Oravida

This. Has anyone in the MSM picked up the story?

Gareth Ward

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 10:23:15 +1300

I really don't see how the Adams thing isn't orders of magnitude more serious than Collins and Oravida but that's probably just example 372 of me not getting political media scandal...

Sacha

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 09:21:40 +1300

includes diagram: http://polity.co.nz/content/more-amy-adams

Sacha

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 09:15:20 +1300

conflicts with claims to be staying out of the broader process.

BenWilson

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 08:24:59 +1300

but it’s a sadly common assumption

Sad all right. I don't want to get into it, really, it's so off topic, and worse, it's so depressing. The political differences are very stark between NZ and Tas.

Euan Mason

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 08:18:40 +1300

Judith Collins will have to crush her own ministerial limousine if she mucks up again. Fortunately John Key has slapped her with a wet bus ticket and so she can use that.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/9820693/One-more-strike-for-Collins

Kumara Republic

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 02:03:20 +1300

I am interested in the various comments here that the Greens can attract votes from National. I assumed that's why they've selected candidates like James Shaw at the last election to replace Sue Kedgley.

Especially in the absence of a British LibDems-style movement.

WH

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 01:35:31 +1300

Thanks for the beginnings of the defeatism Brigade. I would have thought now would be a good time to believe your vote does actually count and that we are worth something other than a smile as he waves.

Thanks for your views on the power of positivity, I'll ceRtainly beAr…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 01:03:28 +1300

Doesn’t really sound like staying out of it.

Sounds like a minister of the Crown doing her job in an entirely appropriate and upfront manner unless I've totally missed something in the linked story.

Joe Wylie

Thu, 13 Mar 2014 00:33:35 +1300

…or natives to deal with.
Perhaps these folks might find it of passing interest to be told that they don't exist, but it's a sadly common assumption.

Sacha

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:44:43 +1300

state politics is irrelevant

when each state is roughly the population of NZ, not so much.

Sacha

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:43:38 +1300

more blunt. :)

BenWilson

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:10:27 +1300

Mate, I was Head of ABC News and Current Affairs in Tasmania for 10 years. Although born in Sydney I have worked in all states of Australia as a journalist. I have reported state politics extensively during the Franklin Dam crisis in Tasmania iand .covered the final years of Joh…

Hebe

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 23:02:58 +1300

One would love to have been a fly on the wall as Cunliffe’s new chief of staff Matt McCarten discussed this matter with Jones.

Four letters: STFU

Sacha

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:03:58 +1300

Adams' press secretary has provided some answers, and it appears she has behaved ethically in regards to Central Plains Water.

Seems like she has actually paid some attention to the conflict, yes.

As for the wider issue of the Canterbury dictatorship, I'd still like to see some answers on that.…

Sacha

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:57:39 +1300

fighting mongrel

Stuff-all use when they bite your friends, not your enemies. Totally agree with Gordon Campbell on this:

One would love to have been a fly on the wall as Cunliffe’s new chief of staff Matt McCarten discussed this matter with Jones.

Phil Wallington

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:01:03 +1300

jMate, I was Head of ABC News and Current Affairs in Tasmania for 10 years. Although born in Sydney I have worked in all states of Australia as a journalist. I have reported state politics extensively during the Franklin Dam crisis in Tasmania iand .covered the final years of Joh…

TracyMac

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 20:39:03 +1300

Which all summarises nicely why Australian politics are not the same as NZ politics, and the issues with coalition-forming between the Greens and Labo(u)r parties in each country are quite different.

I could conceivably see myself voting for NZ Labour – Australian Labor's arse-kissing of heavily-polluting industries such as mining…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 19:33:50 +1300

So basically, she was and is part of a government that, as its decided policy, sacked a council, disenfranchised (forever?) half a million Canterbury voters and thus enabled a few thousand farmers (including her family) to make a lot of money.

But because she left the room for the key…

Richard Grevers

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 17:40:22 +1300

Question: Have there been any (recent) polls on attitudes to the TPPA? For me it's the biggest political issue going at the moment, but no party seems willing to make it a campaign plank. (The Greens told me some time back that it's there in their policy but they limit…

BenWilson

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 17:17:25 +1300

it’s wrong to compare States with local governments

I'm comparing my subjective evaluation of people's level of interest in them. Admittedly I was hanging with a younger crowd then, nobody had kids so the regulation of the school system was not a big concern to us.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:22:57 +1300

But because she left the room for the key…

Keir Leslie

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:06:20 +1300

I don’t think that when you’ve graduated from Harvard and have worked for BCG and have thrown it in to become the MP for New Lynn you’re that worried about climbing up the prestige ladder. If anything I’d be trying to downplay my “technocratic master of the universe’ background.

[Edited…

Hebe

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:04:41 +1300

What was Amy Adams' role in the governmental and Cabinet decisions re CPWL? Did she stand aside? That's the test.

andin

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:59:29 +1300

Oh you were talking about me.
I thought I was being funny or droll or something
Pessimistic Moi! Nevah

Greg Dawson

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:56:46 +1300

the Kennedy School of Government is exceptionally prestigious.

I think we're meant to be accepting that a Business school is by default better than a school of Public Administration, because free market.

NBH

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:50:34 +1300

I think the problem is that Cunliffe said that his was from the B School not the far less competitive, prestigious and rigorous pub admin school

Um, the Kennedy School of Government is exceptionally prestigious. I'm personally not a fan because I prefer the European policy tradition over the US…

Paul Williams

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:31:25 +1300

From memory, Australians put as much thought into electing the individual state governments as we do into electing city councilors. So they get the Australian version of Dick Quax holding very high office, and it’s small wonder that highly dysfunctional coalitions form.

Ben, your memory is faulty on this. The…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:30:31 +1300

Please refer to the research by Jack Vowles mentioned earlier about voters not bothering if they think the election is a foregone conclusion. And keep your pessimism to yourselves.

Myles: Please don’t do that. It never ends well.

I’m kind of amazed at how vague her ministerial declarations were allowed…

Stephen R

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 15:18:06 +1300

Seems Judith Collins might not have been entirely straight with that nice Mr Key...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9818950/Judith-Collins-comes-clean-about-dinner

Prime Minister John Key has signalled Justice Minister Judith Collins is on her final warning after she withheld details of a dinner in China with a company linked to her husband.

The dinner was with…

BenWilson

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:39:37 +1300

Probably. It's what people do, when presenting a CV. You're not required in a CV to point out the negatives. You don't write "Graduated from Harvard, but only from the lowly public policy faculty". You just write "Graduated Harvard, Majoring in X".

Idiot Savant

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:37:47 +1300

No Right Turn says she declared no interests as an MP and it's unclear whether her declarations as a minister were sufficient.

I should add: Adams' press secretary has provided some answers, and it appears she has behaved ethically in regards to Central Plains Water. As for the wider issue…

Idiot Savant

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:35:35 +1300

I'm kind of amazed at how vague her ministerial declarations were allowed to be.

They wouldn't have been. I've linked to Cabinet office's summary of those declarations, which sanitises all relevant details, so we don't even know which companies to look out for.

But its all on DocumentCloud now, so…

Tinakori

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:30:14 +1300

I think the problem is that Cunliffe said that his was from the B School not the far less competitive, prestigious and rigorous pub admin school of which I believe Shane Jones is also a graduate. I don't care but I think Cunliffe does and was trying to move up…

BenWilson

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:26:15 +1300

I guess everyone already saw Cunliffe has a plan about coalition wrangling. I guess he's keeping his options open when mentioning Winston, doh, NZ First. It's not likely they'll be able to help Labour govern on their lonesome, unless they double their support by September, but there is a very…

Richard Aston

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:23:09 +1300

That would have made him one of those foreign students then, squeezing out the locals?

Zinger!

Richard Aston

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:22:18 +1300

Please refer to the research by Jack Vowles mentioned earlier about voters not bothering if they think the election is a foregone conclusion. And keep your pessimism to yourselves.

Last time EVERYONE said National would romp home, there was a massively low voter turnout and lo behold, National squeaked in.…

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:12:38 +1300

If anything, what James Dann has revealed today (with the assistance of Keith Ng) is actually bigger than Judith Collins' present trouble.

As both a backbencher and Minister of the Environment, Amy Adams may have derived substantial benefit from the eCan takeover and what followed.

If that's the case and…

Myles Thomas

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:09:50 +1300

Please refer to the research by Jack Vowles mentioned earlier about voters not bothering if they think the election is a foregone conclusion. And keep your pessimism to yourselves.

Last time EVERYONE said National would romp home, there was a massively low voter turnout and lo behold, National squeaked in.…

linger

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:39:52 +1300

And they have a summer school with an English language programme – hence some of my former students can legitimately claim to have “studied at Harvard” on the basis of a semester spent there at some time during their MA studies at my own university.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:33:19 +1300

They also do undergrad degrees, I understand.