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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Spinning and soldiering</title>
		<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/</link>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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				<title>nzlemming</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194771#post194771</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194771#post194771</guid>
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						He's keeping them close to his mouth
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:07:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194767#post194767</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194767#post194767</guid>
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						<p><q>5 to 2</q></p><p>that your ear is too close to the wrong end of the horse</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:54:36 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jan Farr</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194750#post194750</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194750#post194750</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Giovanni &ndash; you make me laugh!  (In a good way).
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:30:41 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>giovanni tiso</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194716#post194716</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194716#post194716</guid>
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						<p><q>5 to 2 any response will be on the last little throwaway irrelevancy.</q></p><p>I have much more favourable odds for "eh?"</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:11:20 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194709#post194709</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194709#post194709</guid>
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						<p><q>Inevitable that this thread would be reduced to the "who's up who &amp; which one is paying the rent?" tenor of every thread.</q><br />Yeah, did I miss something?  Every thread?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 15:50:50 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sam F</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194702#post194702</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194702#post194702</guid>
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						<q>Inevitable that this thread would be reduced to the "who's up who & which one is paying the rent?" tenor of every thread. After all why waste time on something boring like whether or not we should know if the peeps on the other side of the world who are being…</q>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 15:41:10 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>nzlemming</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194695#post194695</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194695#post194695</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I think you should get merit for a really good attempt, though.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 15:32:27 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Bruce Manning</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194677#post194677</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194677#post194677</guid>
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						Whoops, the shark attacks were in the Red Sea not the Mediterranean. Thought I had the conspiracy connection of the month.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:34:37 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>James George</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194668#post194668</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194668#post194668</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Inevitable that this thread would be reduced to the "who's up who & which one is paying the rent?" tenor of every thread.  After all why waste time on something boring like whether or not we should know if the peeps on the other side of the world who are being…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:29:21 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Bruce Manning</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194660#post194660</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194660#post194660</guid>
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						<p>Going off topic, Russell....is any one making a connection between these shark attacks in Egypt and the likely thousands of refugees put into leaky boats by people smugglers in the Mediterranean.</p><p>I was reading Lloyd Jones latest book which estimates drownings possibly in the thousands annually. Maybe he's exaggerating, or…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 13:55:56 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jan Farr</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194431#post194431</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194431#post194431</guid>
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						<p>Oh no &ndash; the voting has taken place and this morning I found the most wonderful word in the Sunday Star Times, p. A14!<br />'Last week Eric Holder, the US attorney-general, said he was personally involved in the US investigation into the [Wikileaks] website.  "People would be misimpressioned if they…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 10:11:40 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194311#post194311</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194311#post194311</guid>
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						<p><q>Is [Restrepo] officially available in NZ in any form yet?</q></p><p>Don't know, but was shown on the discovery channel <a href="http://www.skytv.co.nz/Default.aspx?tabid=1219&amp;art_id=34290" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">two days ago</a>, and will apparently be repeated this Sunday and Monday.</p><p>You might also be interested to know that the US military <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/world/asia/15outpost.html?_r=1&amp;hp" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">has now pulled out of the Korengal Valley</a>. But don't…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 13:12:05 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194294#post194294</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194294#post194294</guid>
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						<p><a href="http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1152397/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">American Violet.</a><br />The other staggering fact that this film highlighted was that 95% (can't check right now as restricted to thumbs) of US prisoners accepted a plea bargain rather than going to trial.  Of course they were all guilty of <em>something</em>, right?</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 11:06:35 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>3410</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194292#post194292</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194292#post194292</guid>
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						Fair enough. :)
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:58:58 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194288#post194288</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194288#post194288</guid>
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						Yes, I do know. Actually thought they were higher. And my point was that if the IMF haven't wagged their finger at the US they're definitely not going to wag their finger at us.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:49:22 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>3410</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194285#post194285</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194285#post194285</guid>
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						<p><q>ETA: We're also a long, long way short of the high-water mark set by the US's rates of incarceration.</q></p><p>Oh, that's fine then.</p><p>For the record, our imprisonment rates are &ndash; as I'm sure you know &ndash; 5th out of 30 in the OECD.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:09:11 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194284#post194284</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194284#post194284</guid>
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						<p>That'd only happen if the prisons were run by the state. State-operated is bad, privately-operated is good. The IMF wouldn't bat an eyelid if half your GDP went on prisons, provided they were run by good capitalists.</p><p>ETA: We're also a long, long way short of the high-water mark set…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 09:52:24 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kumara Republic</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194274#post194274</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194274#post194274</guid>
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						<p>Has any nation in the world imprisoned so many people, that the IMF pays a visit and wags a few fingers?</p><p>Seriously though, we're probably not far off a Special Patrol Group/sus law, NZ-style.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 02:51:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Lucy Stewart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194273#post194273</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194273#post194273</guid>
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						<p><q>Why oh why do we insist on following America's lead? On prisoner rights of all things.</q></p><p>In some states in the US, a felony conviction disenfranchises you for <em>life</em>, though this practice is fortunately not nearly as widespread as it was. It's also been upheld as constitutional. We're not quite…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 01:30:02 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194270#post194270</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194270#post194270</guid>
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						<p>Good on Grant for his speech. Impassioned, argumentative, backed up by some logic and principles.</p><p>Shame Calvert's speech apparently carried the day. How luke warm can you get?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 23:50:04 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194255#post194255</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194255#post194255</guid>
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						<p>Was this a conscious vote, or an unconscious one?</p><p>Sorry, I mean conscience.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 15:18:11 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Tim Hannah</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194253#post194253</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194253#post194253</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>why the hell implement this policy in the first place?</p></blockquote><p>Have you considered what happens when we build super massive prisons to deal with taggers and the buggers outvote the good burgers of the electorate they're visiting? Huh?</p><p>You wanna have the boss of cell block D4 elected and pulling…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 15:10:47 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194252#post194252</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194252#post194252</guid>
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						<p><q>politicians riding into Parliament on the convicted felon vote</q></p><p>this just has to be about restoring integrity  :)</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 15:09:02 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194251#post194251</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194251#post194251</guid>
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						<p><q> I mean, surely it's no surprise to you that in certain (barbaric) jurisdictions they remove the right to life itself for some crimes?</q></p><p>All in good time.  Baby steps.</p><p><q>If the answer to both questions is no, why the hell implement this policy in the first place?</q><br />Stop being so…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 14:58:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sam F</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194250#post194250</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194250#post194250</guid>
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						<p><q>I just can't get my head around how this is not a curtailment of basic human rights.</p><p>Of course it is.... but so is putting someone in prison.</q></p><p>Agreed, and I can understand the thinking too &ndash; but one reason why I violently disagree with this thing is that it's…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 14:56:31 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>FletcherB</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194248#post194248</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194248#post194248</guid>
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						<p><q>I just can't get my head around how this is not a curtailment of basic human rights.</q></p><p>Of course it is....  but so is putting someone in prison.</p><p>It's not an argument I agree with, but I can understand someone thinking that if you have transgressed the behavioral norms sufficiently…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 14:40:24 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194244#post194244</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194244#post194244</guid>
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						<p><q>It's just a cynical attempt at appearing tough on crime.</q></p><p>Without actually doing anything to help reduce it.  </p><p>Just to highlight the opposing forces on this, here's two sides of the argument in Parliament last night. (HT David Slack)</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57B8yP_MYtE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57B8yP_MYtE</a></p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIE0fsIGu9k" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIE0fsIGu9k</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 14:11:30 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Martin Lindberg</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194240#post194240</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194240#post194240</guid>
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						<p><q> our representatives might have been expected to check, and Wikipedia now needs updating to show New Zealand in a less favourable light,</q></p><p>I'm sure Wayne Mapp (well, his team ayway) did check and they know exactly what they are doing. It's just a cynical attempt at appearing <strong>tough on crime</strong>.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 13:59:50 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sam F</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194238#post194238</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194238#post194238</guid>
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						<p><q>Sam, have you seen the related film doco ('Restrepo')?</q></p><p>Nope &ndash; although I'm very keen to do so. Is it officially available in NZ in any form yet?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 13:53:00 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194229#post194229</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194229#post194229</guid>
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						<p><q>Australia, Canada, the Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Israel, Japan, Kenya, Netherlands, Norway, Peru, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Sweden and Zimbabwe... Germany</q><br />Bunch of back-water Neanderthals!  What would they know?   </p><p>Excuse the sarcasm, but yes, our representatives might have been expected to check, and Wikipedia now needs updating to show New Zealand…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 13:30:59 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194224#post194224</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194224#post194224</guid>
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						<p><q>I was put in mind of Sebastian Junger's latest book on his experiences with a US unit in Afghanistan, which gives a great insight into the psychological effects of being embedded in a combat unit (thus depending on and to some degree identifying with the soldiers protecting you).</q></p><p>+1 from…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 13:13:54 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Martin Lindberg</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194221#post194221</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194221#post194221</guid>
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						See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement#Other_countries" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Felony disenfranchisement</a> for a list of countries that do not obey Wayne Mapp's <em>logic</em>.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 13:00:42 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194220#post194220</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194220#post194220</guid>
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						<p>I just can't get my head around how this is not a curtailment of basic human rights.</p><p>Proving my ignorance, I was even shocked to learn it is already the case for prisoners with sentences over 3 years.   There are so many 'what if' scenarios running through my head, I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 12:54:37 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194216#post194216</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194216#post194216</guid>
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						<p><q>show up for a recording</q></p><p>I highly recommend the experience</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 12:35:50 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Martin Lindberg</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194215#post194215</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194215#post194215</guid>
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						<p><q>"It is surely logical that when you are incarcerated you also do not have the right to vote,"</q></p><p>Anyone who clams that <em>it is surely logical that if A then B</em> is by default wrong. Doubly so in this case.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 12:26:28 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194214#post194214</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194214#post194214</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>Prisoners banned from voting.</q><br />Is there a rule against replying to yourself?</p><p>So no one wants to pick this up?   Some activity on Twitter.  I'll go feed my indignation over there.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 12:17:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194196#post194196</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194196#post194196</guid>
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						<p><q>After which the combat promptly resumed on the steps of the set. There was some vigorous gesticulating and after I heard the word 'credibility' a couple of times I decided to make for cover.</q></p><p>You may have noticed me bolting the second the credits ended and leaving them to it…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 10:30:17 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sam F</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194195#post194195</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194195#post194195</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>Wow, so Media 7 is going all Sally-Jessy? If there's going to be biffo I might actually show up for a recording!</q></p><p>If only they'd resumed hostilities while we were applauding for the credits &ndash; cameras were well off by that time.</p><p>I ended up chuckling a couple of times…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 10:20:31 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194193#post194193</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194193#post194193</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>After which the combat promptly resumed on the steps of the set. There was some vigorous gesticulating and after I heard the word 'credibility' a couple of times I decided to make for cover.</p></blockquote><p>Wow, so Media 7 is going all Sally-Jessy? If there's going to be biffo I might…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 10:08:05 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sam F</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194191#post194191</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194191#post194191</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>The transition from Garth and Jon in mortal combat to Sarah Daniell discussing bad literary sex with Emily Perkins was particularly pleasing.</q></p><p>After which the combat promptly resumed on the steps of the set. There was some vigorous gesticulating and after I heard the word 'credibility' a couple of times…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 10:00:53 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>recordari</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194158#post194158</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194158#post194158</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>This is off topic, but seemed the kind of thing GG would get on his geegees about.</p><p><a href="http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/prisoners-banned-voting-3955688" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Prisoners banned from voting</a>.</p><p><q>National's Wayne Mapp, the only minister to speak during the debate, said offenders who were sent to jail <strong>lost their fundamental rights</strong>.</p><p>"It is surely logical that when you…</q></p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 07:12:10 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194149#post194149</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194149#post194149</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Righto, you should watch this show. It rocked along from beginning to end.</p><p>The transition from Garth and Jon in mortal combat to Sarah Daniell discussing bad literary sex with Emily Perkins was particularly pleasing.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 01:17:11 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Che Tibby</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194061#post194061</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194061#post194061</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>"then JS and GG having it out"</p><p>surely that'll just be some dude beating up a pensioner? </p><p>not that i don't think he deserves it.</p><p>uppercut Jon, uppercut!!</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 14:23:12 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194060#post194060</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194060#post194060</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>Sorry, is it Garth George, Stephenson and Paul Buchanan tonight?</q></p><p>Yes, it is. Haven't had time to update the blog post.</p><p>PB first on embedded journalism, then JS and GG having it out.</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 14:12:44 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194054#post194054</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194054#post194054</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>If I can remember where I saw the references, I'll post it up.</q></p><p>OK, the UK armed forces document for journalists is called the green book.<a href="http://www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/GreenBook.pdf<br />">Copy here.</a></p><p>As it states, it was produced as a co-operative document between the army and various journalist organisations. But that notwithstanding, it has…</p>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 13:44:32 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>rosehoare</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194012#post194012</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=194012#post194012</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Sorry, is it Garth George, Stephenson and Paul Buchanan tonight?
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				<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 11:39:39 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Martin Lindberg</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193960#post193960</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193960#post193960</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>That's the &ndash; "people have a different opinion to me on Afghanistan/Israel etc because the don'lt know the full story and they don't know the full story because of the capitalist media and the Lobby etc" theory.</q></p><p>Well, it's not like that theory lacks examples to support it.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 23:15:02 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Morrison</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193952#post193952</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193952#post193952</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						One of the aspecst of independent journalists such as Pilger that I have a problem with is their consipratorial approach to how people arrive at their political opinions. That's the &ndash; "people have a different opinion to me on Afghanistan/Israel etc because the don'lt know the full story and they…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 19:36:46 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>chris</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193944#post193944</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193944#post193944</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4429248/Kiwi-killed-serving-with-British-in-Afghanistan" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4429248/Kiwi-killed-serving-with-British-in-Afghanistan</a>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 17:21:52 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193921#post193921</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193921#post193921</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Does anyone know/would it be a good idea to ask, if reporting on NZ armed forces involvement in Afghanistan has anything like the constraints that reporters operate under when reporting on UK armed forces.</p><p>Reporters with UK forces have to abide by a set of conditions outlined in a publication…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 13:47:15 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>chris</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193918#post193918</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193918#post193918</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Good on you for returning to this old chestnut Russell, It was 30 years ago today (or tomorrow figuring the time difference). How sorely his imperatives and challenges are missed. <br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acb15JsCGSk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acb15JsCGSk</a><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqP3wT5lpa4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqP3wT5lpa4</a><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7qaSxuZUg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b7qaSxuZUg</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 13:29:10 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>nzlemming</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193884#post193884</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193884#post193884</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>| Someone who asks questions and interpretes the multiple realities…</p><p>which could just as well describe Michael Laws.</q></p><p>No. Laws asks questions, doesn’t wait for answers and then makes up multiple realities and spews them forth.</p><p>[edit] Ah, seems we can't nest quote tags. okay.</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:37:04 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>David Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193881#post193881</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193881#post193881</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>An independent journalist is a journalist who isn't contracted to a particular outlet.</q></p><p>So what's the difference between that and a freelancer?</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 09:09:59 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Tim Hannah</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193866#post193866</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193866#post193866</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Do you know / can you ask if the full paper will be available anywhere?</p><p>An independent journalist is a journalist who isn't contracted to a particular outlet. Doesn't necessarily mean they're particularly activist,  just that they have to sell their output story by story. Which means they have to…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 22:00:58 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Morrison</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193855#post193855</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193855#post193855</guid>
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						<p><q>Someone who asks questions and interpretes the multiple realities...</q></p><p>which could just as well describe Michael Laws. Not that I would mind if he called himself an independent journalist, that would not make up for being a complete dick.</p><p>I suppose I'm really aiming at the crusading journalists such as…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 18:26:53 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Ross Mason</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193825#post193825</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193825#post193825</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>independent journalist", how does that differ from "political activist"?</p></blockquote><p>Someone who asks questions and interpretes the multiple realities as opposed to someone who writes a short succinct phrase on a placcard?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:43:46 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Morrison</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193814#post193814</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193814#post193814</guid>
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						"independent journalist", how does that differ from "political activist"?
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				<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:17:27 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>FletcherB</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193812#post193812</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193812#post193812</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><q>It would be fair to say that Jon believes Garth had some help with his homework. Garth, in return, says he stands by everything he wrote. Things might get lively.</q></p><p>This would be a clue wouldnt it?</p><p>Were you perhaps intending to mention they would be your guests on a…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:05:14 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193811#post193811</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-spinning-and-soldiering/?p=193811#post193811</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:05:14 +1300</pubDate>
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