Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Softly, softly

Steve Barnes

Wed, 21 May 2014 12:03:14 +1200

“what if it was your kid at the Boston Marathon?”
Well indeed, what if?
With the death of a runner in the Little Rock Marathon two weeks ago, as well as deaths in the 2007 Chicago Marathon and the 2007 US Men’s Olympic Trials, a number of people…

Steve Barnes

Wed, 21 May 2014 11:46:17 +1200

I’m even more antsy that a sizeable chunk of people among us actually support this kind of judge, jury & executioner doctrine.
Especially when that includes our Pry Mincer and other sizable chunks on the front bench.
And I am not alone in condemning this shit as Murder...
"The…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 21 May 2014 11:41:25 +1200

Now what’s that fallacy where people backed into a corner say, “it’s a beltway issue, no one but policy wonks care about mass surveillance and vigilante drones.”? It’s definitely a red herring of some sort. I do know that “what if it was your kid at the Boston Marathon?” was…

linger

Wed, 21 May 2014 10:57:10 +1200

flying rats arseAh! So that is where the batshit comes from.

Sacha

Wed, 21 May 2014 10:56:12 +1200

yes, that is what I am saying

Super-diverse Auckland must be such a disappointment then. To say nothing of that Treaty malarky.

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 21 May 2014 10:50:32 +1200

If he thinks that’s justice being done, he’d better hope it’s never done to him.

He doesn't give a flying rats arse about NZ, as noted in Te Herald.

linger

Wed, 21 May 2014 10:37:59 +1200

If he thinks that’s justice being done,
he’d better hope it’s never done to him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn4j37CX29g

…Won’t the words sit ill upon their tongues
When they tell us that justice is being done
And that freedom lives in the barrel of a warm gun…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 21 May 2014 08:18:01 +1200

Nah, just send a drone man, JK’s down with that.
I call the witness for the Prosecution
Key disagrees with critics who say drone killings are execution without trial, in which ordinary people are massacred.
“For the most part drone strikes have been an effective way of prosecuting people that…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 21 May 2014 01:01:16 +1200

Talking of batshit crazy. The US “War on Terror”, which, by the way, is about as effective as their “War on Drugs” and claiming just as many casualties, has taken a trip down scary street with the cowardly use of drones to murder innocent civilians, innocent until proven guilty means…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 21 May 2014 00:57:56 +1200

And because it really does need saying, it might be easier to get a handle on exactly what the fuck Putin is up to if he hadn't done such a good job of gutting anything resembling a free press in Russia.

Putin's basically a Tsar by another name, amirite? On…

Rich Lock

Tue, 20 May 2014 20:01:20 +1200

Also, having Russia and Nato spend their time and money probing each others defences with planes and warships isn’t such a bad idea.

Here in the UK, the government is steaming ahead with their intended replacement for the Trident sub-launched nukes, for no easily-discernable rationale. Possibly the old ones weren't…

Rich Lock

Tue, 20 May 2014 19:48:59 +1200

For what exactly? Are you really implying that the only way of achieving a stable nation-state is through achieving racial/cultural purity?

All the empirical evidence of the last 200 years – in Europe at least – points to that. So the answer to your question is yes, that is what…

Steve Barnes

Tue, 20 May 2014 18:58:58 +1200

the Bretons trying to slaughter the Normans. Not to mention the continuing Friesland/Holland civil war in the Netherlands.
Nah, just send a drone man, JK's down with that.
"Yeah, he'll be up on them like a motherfucker"
(sorry, been watching the Wire again.)

Moz

Tue, 20 May 2014 16:28:40 +1200

Yup, I noticed when I was last in Germany the Sorbs battling the Wends all the time

Not to mention the death toll as the Samoans and Tongans battle it out on the streets of Christchurch

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 20 May 2014 16:00:08 +1200

Yup, I noticed when I was last in Germany the Sorbs battling the Wends all the time. Or in France, the Bretons trying to slaughter the Normans. Not to mention the continuing Friesland/Holland civil war in the Netherlands.

Tom Semmens

Tue, 20 May 2014 15:18:47 +1200

For what exactly? Are you really implying that the only way of achieving a stable nation-state is through achieving racial/cultural purity?

All the empirical evidence of the last 200 years – in Europe at least – points to that. So the answer to your question is yes, that is what…

linger

Tue, 20 May 2014 15:14:20 +1200

ethnic cleansing of Eastern Europe […] worked
For what exactly? Do you really mean to imply that the only way of achieving a stable nation-state is through achieving racial/cultural purity?

Tom Semmens

Tue, 20 May 2014 13:28:09 +1200

There is a dirty secret in Europe – the ethnic cleansing of Eastern Europe that occurred during and in the immediate aftermath of WW2 worked. Everyone was in on it. Here are the Ukrainians slaughtering the Poles in 1943-44, for example.

Where strongman communist rule meant it didn't occur in…

Russell Brown

Tue, 20 May 2014 13:22:24 +1200

I would have thought if you are violently demonstrating against an elected President AND parliament , thats a putsch in anybodys language.

Oh, come on.

Here's the annotated Euromaidan timeline.

The protests began when the the government performed about-face on the European association agreement (and lied about it).

There were…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 20 May 2014 13:18:18 +1200

I think it may be a traditional (post-1942) Russian thing to conflate any threat from the (geographical) west with fascism, Nazis having been the last group to attempt an invasion of Russia. Certainly the Soviet posture was to a large extent driven by a fear that 1942 might one day…

Paul Campbell

Tue, 20 May 2014 10:48:34 +1200

It’s easy to forget that these were the people who risked their lives to encourage their Parliament to send Yanukovych packing in February. Depicting the whole thing as a neo-Nazi putsch, as Pilger seems to, is just weird.

again I'm just repeating my friend's personal experience, he grew up with…

Steve Barnes

Tue, 20 May 2014 01:32:54 +1200

Crimea River

I said from day one that Russia had no real interest in occupying The Ukraine Peninsular, let alone the whole country, it was just so last century.
The fact that there was division amongst the people of the region over whether to move toward Europe or stay as…

Matt Crawford

Tue, 20 May 2014 00:17:31 +1200

For some background on Boko Haram here’s a rather readable piece from 2013 http://pando.com/2014/05/17/the-war-nerd-nigerias-inevitable-mess/

Note:
The author is somewhat… problematic in that it is “War Nerd” Gary Brecher, alter ego of one of the Pando writers. He’s qualified to comment in the same way all schlubbs are – overeducated and…

Chris Waugh

Tue, 20 May 2014 00:03:16 +1200

Boko Haram continues to back down.

Interesting kind of back down if they're getting some of their own prisoners back. And oddly buried near the bottom of the article:

The Daily Telegraph source said Boko Haram leaders had been upset by the declaration of "war" at the Paris summit, and…

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 May 2014 22:56:08 +1200

That Hitchens column is batshit.

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 19 May 2014 22:17:57 +1200

So does his ideological opposite Peter Hitchens , who writes in the Daily Mail

Jesus fucking Christ, after reading that I've got to grant Hitchens one thing: He's certainly got the family chutzpah to be accusing anyone else of dangerous ignorance on basic matters of historical fact. But, hey, Peter's…

Matt Crawford

Mon, 19 May 2014 22:00:24 +1200

Thanks for that NYT update Steve, I hadn't seen it.

What I have seen is a fair bit of discussion surrounding pictures of the type I've attached – essentially pointing out that the "Green Men" non-uniformed Russian-speaking forces were equipped with the type of gear that regulars in the Russian…

Steve Curtis

Mon, 19 May 2014 21:46:29 +1200

Its not only Pilger who sees us being dragged into a new Cold War. So does his ideological opposite Peter Hitchens , who writes in the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2587118/PETER-HITCHENS-Were-dragged-new-Cold-War-puffed-bullfrog-I-don-t-mean-President-Putin.html

Steve Curtis

Mon, 19 May 2014 21:36:14 +1200

the people who risked their lives to encourage their Parliament to send Yanukovych packing in February
Thats not how others saw it.
" On 18 February, the worst clashes of Euromaidan broke out after the parliament did not accede to demands that the Constitution of Ukraine be rolled back to…

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 19 May 2014 21:28:54 +1200

It’s not just weird, it’s sad and more than a little pathetic.…

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 May 2014 21:09:37 +1200

I tried very hard not to godwin the thread on the first post …. but “nazi” would have been the word my friend used (and remember he comes from that part of the Ukraine)

From what I can make out, the term would certainly apply to some of the nationalists,…

Steve Curtis

Mon, 19 May 2014 20:25:02 +1200

bizarre to think that Pilger doesn’t see an issue with a country dispatching special forces into a neighbour – such as Russia sending in non-uniformed Spetsnaz troops into Ukraine to start this crisis.

The New York Times has walked back from its article, seemingly planted by the US Administration, that…

Matt Crawford

Mon, 19 May 2014 20:09:15 +1200

Pilger comes across as completely off the reservation – it's like the decades of investigating atrocities perpetrated on the 3rd world by the 1st has rendered him unable to perceive anything but.

__Every year the American historian William Blum publishes his "updated summary of the record of US foreign policy"…

jb

Mon, 19 May 2014 17:12:16 +1200

sheer slacktivism; an easy way for people feel they’re doing something material by retweeting a hashtag

Now, *that's* not v. nice. And I always thought that you and David got along rather well....

Paul Campbell

Mon, 19 May 2014 16:16:45 +1200

There are certainly some bad actors in the Ukranian government, but to claim as Pilger does that they’re all neo-Nazis is palpably untrue. Letting elections take place seems appropriate.

I tried very hard not to godwin the thread on the first post .... but "nazi" would have been the word…

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 May 2014 14:06:41 +1200

This bit from the LRB suggests the real risk is of civil war in Ukraine and that Putin may find it hard to avoid getting involved if that happens.

That makes a bit more sense.

Ana Simkiss

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:57:25 +1200

This bit from the LRB suggests the real risk is of civil war in Ukraine and that Putin may find it hard to avoid getting involved if that happens.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/2014/05/12/tony-wood/lurching-towards-civil-war

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:56:31 +1200

Boko Haram continues to back down.

Matthew Poole

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:40:50 +1200

Shoosh, Bart, enough with the logic and sensibility.

Bart Janssen

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:29:02 +1200

It's worth remembering that the USA has financial problems of its own. A shooting war with Russia would be horrendously expensive and financially the only likely winner would be China.

bob daktari

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:18:48 +1200

Take a look at the graphs in the Vox article. He has real problems.

all of which are current, short term (probably and potentially) and suggest not a lot except to reinforce the authors case – again all short term, theres a much bigger picture and longer game at play...…

Chris Waugh

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:15:04 +1200

All true, but I'm wondering more if it fits into a wider pattern, what with recent events in Mali, violence in Centrafrique, and Chad never seems entirely stable. I don't know, when I get time I need to sift through the Francophone newspapers. For now, real world work calls.

Stephen R

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:08:54 +1200

but to claim as Pilger does that they're all neo-Nazis is palpably untrue

My Ukranian Co-worker (his Mum still lives in Kiev) said some of that comes from the second world war. The Ukranians who looked at Stalin and went "He's scary" joined up with the Germans not because they…

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:05:03 +1200

but there’s a determined section of the population who are convinced that the Americans are itching to get into a full-scale tanks-vs-tanks hot war with the Russians.

When to all appearances, the opposite seems to be the case.

AndrewH

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:03:16 +1200

"Take a look at the graphs in the Vox article. He has real problems."
Yes, it does look that way. I read last week that Russia, China and Iran had been discussing non-US dollar-denominated trade (again). The triumphal Vox article doesn't consider the possibility or consequences if the economic incentives…

Graham Dunster

Mon, 19 May 2014 13:02:42 +1200

On drones the NBR is useful (for once) – http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/raw-data-kiwi-killed-drone-strike-%E2%80%94-patrick-gower-interviews-jeremy-scahill-ck-156330

Dave Guerin

Mon, 19 May 2014 12:59:26 +1200

While Nigeria isn't Francophone, the countries surrounding it are, and Boko Haram melts across the borders to avoid Nigerian pursuit.So getting them cooperating could help reduce Boko Haram's effectiveness – although last week's agreement was mainly "agreeing to talk" AFAIK.

AndrewH

Mon, 19 May 2014 12:55:09 +1200

I'm not sure why you brand Pilger's article bizarre. Anyone who's been following events via non-MSM channels will have heard this take, along with some pretty compelling evidence.
I also didn't read anything in his article that branded all the actors as Nazis, and it's hard to deny that the…

Matthew Poole

Mon, 19 May 2014 12:47:56 +1200

I’ve been rather perplexed by the continued assertions in some quarters that the US has set Russia up in the Ukraine in order to have a pretext for war. A war over what, to what end, and with what US logistics train appears to have been rather overlooked, but there’s…

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 May 2014 12:46:59 +1200

I doubt Putin is doing anything but playing for time, which is very on his side...

Take a look at the graphs in the Vox article. He has real problems.

bob daktari

Mon, 19 May 2014 12:39:32 +1200

I'd be interested (but aren't holding my breath) as to what the US involvement in the destabilisation of the Ukraine and formation of the crisis was – something we're still very much in the midst of.

I doubt Putin is doing anything but playing for time, which is very on…

Chris Waugh

Mon, 19 May 2014 12:37:33 +1200

What I'm curious about, but have seen precious little comment on so far, is what Francois Hollande is getting up to with his recent West African summit, and how involved France is intending to get in this new "war on Boko Haram". Sure, traditionally Francophone (including former Belgian) Africa is…

Craig Ranapia

Mon, 19 May 2014 12:28:52 +1200

But Africans consistently admire the elements of US soft power: its culture rather than its weapons.

And not just Africans and Americans. If you attended anything with a British author at the Auckland Writers Festival over the weekend, there’s fairly good odds it happened with a considerable assist from the…

Russell Brown

Mon, 19 May 2014 12:19:55 +1200

so one of my neighbours is a recent immigrant from the Ukraine – his take on what’s happening there is largely “a pox on all their houses” …. he doesn’t see any good actors in the current conflict and says that what we see in the media is pretty inaccurate…

Paul Campbell

Mon, 19 May 2014 12:13:16 +1200

so one of my neighbours is a recent immigrant from the Ukraine – his take on what's happening there is largely "a pox on all their houses" .... he doesn't see any good actors in the current conflict and says that what we see in the media is pretty inaccurate…

Public Address

Mon, 19 May 2014 12:13:16 +1200

Discussion from blog post.