Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: So what now?

Sacha

Mon, 21 Mar 2016 13:50:02 +1300

Right-leaning candidate Stephen Berry has withdrawn from the mayoral contest and endorsed Palino.

Marc C

Mon, 14 Mar 2016 19:07:25 +1300

The architect (usually employed by the developer and/or builder) commented:
__"The debate has suffered from blinkered thinking and cherry picking of facts; those engaging in the process desperately need a holistic understanding of both the controls and their purpose. It’s time that the voices of the informed, specifically those who…

Sacha

Mon, 14 Mar 2016 13:35:54 +1300

An architect discusses the complexity of interpreting the Plan.

Marc C

Sun, 13 Mar 2016 19:01:29 +1300

At the end of that Listener article I did again read something that is no longer applicable, and which few in the media seem to know:
__"The council increased the minimum size of apartments from 30 to 35sq m metres in 2007. “But that makes the minimum price $350,000 –…

Marc C

Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:36:22 +1300

This is the problem, under present market conditions in Auckland, apartments will not be the so much talked about "affordable" housing as they cost even more to build per square metre, no matter how you try to cut or spin it. Only if you allow blocks of tiny units, in…

Sacha

Sun, 13 Mar 2016 15:31:59 +1300

A long Listener story focused mainly on wealthy older people moving into plush apartments.

Marc C

Sat, 12 Mar 2016 22:17:28 +1300

So which experts are they going to summon, those that cannot agree even on the capacity modeling, that now has many holes shot through it also?

https://hearings.aupihp.govt.nz/online-services/new/files/8XIb7Jjn0pxGdHG583uKlzelApv1QWCXaa0GH25rQG8X

Quote:
__"Other particular concerns relate to whether It is reasonable to use three year old sales figures in this model rather than factoring…

Sacha

Sat, 12 Mar 2016 15:12:31 +1300

Mike Lee's perspective (sounding similar to that of a certain hat-wearing activist) includes this claim:
what Len Brown seems to have forgotten is what John Key personally told him at a joint meeting between the Governing Body and cabinet ministers last July at which I was present. At that meeting…

Sacha

Thu, 10 Mar 2016 16:22:39 +1300

Housing NZ summons Council experts at the hearing.

Kumara Republic

Tue, 08 Mar 2016 23:48:33 +1300

Yes. The retired and the wealthy do tend to have better options.

And sadly it's not just a NZ problem. D:<

Sacha

Sun, 06 Mar 2016 08:49:21 +1300

So if this may be unfair to young people, is it then not also unfair to all others, that have to work, study and do other chores?

Yes. The retired and the wealthy do tend to have better options.

Marc C

Sun, 06 Mar 2016 01:20:31 +1300

Ah yes, that is a good excuse, most people are busy during weekday afternoons. Thanks for mentioning this, as that is what I thought myself, when noticing that Council and the Independent Hearings Panel had set all the mediation meetings on various topics for exactly such day-times during weekdays, where…

Sacha

Sat, 05 Mar 2016 11:16:55 +1300

nobody stopped the younger persons that were concerned to attend, so why did they not make the effort?

most people are busy on weekday afternoons.

Sacha

Sat, 05 Mar 2016 11:15:33 +1300

why did Council not do all this capacity modeling before drawing up and notifying the plan, and come with such late zoning changes just before the whole hearings are about to come to a close?

The panel moved the goalposts. The modelling was revisited accordingly. The change was not governed…

Marc C

Sat, 05 Mar 2016 00:32:00 +1300

The people that were there in larger numbers were from places like some Eastern Suburbs, where more out of scope zoning was proposed by Council, and this was done this late in the hearing, and mostly covered areas rather far away from any significant centres or the CBD. So naturally…

Marc C

Sat, 05 Mar 2016 00:20:05 +1300

I note then that you must have been there then, since you are so sure. I was talking about some in the media commenting on “shouting down”, I never denied that there were interjections. Go and watch the whole video of the whole meeting, to get a real impression of…

nzlemming

Fri, 04 Mar 2016 18:35:08 +1300

Well, cutting all the interjections out of a meeting lasting well over six hours and putting them in a 5 minute video, showing this in condensed and also edited, lopsidedly commented form, that is of course representative of the whole meeting, I suppose?

You were the one who said there…

Sacha

Fri, 04 Mar 2016 07:56:55 +1300

they would be shut out of housing near the city and near centres

What's non-factual about that? It was a general statement, not a response to any particular suburb's zoning,

Marc C

Fri, 04 Mar 2016 01:24:06 +1300

Nobody said there were no interjections, but…

nzlemming

Thu, 03 Mar 2016 15:31:56 +1300

Le Spinoff has a piece including actual video of the meeting – judge the crowd for yourself.

Fuck me! That appears to be the Council's own webcast feed. And those mics are designed to be super sensitive to the person right in front of it while trying to minimise extraneous…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 02 Mar 2016 20:37:38 +1300

Burton seems determined to burn everything to the ground.

Did we expect anything less from a prominent spokesman for #GenerationRentier? For those of us discussing the issue on Twitter, I've come up with the perfect hash tag.

Marc C

Wed, 02 Mar 2016 19:12:03 +1300

That document found under the link in my last comment is OUT OF DATE, by the way, as there is upon past hearings now agreement between Council and some key large submitters on there being NO minimum dwelling mix, and for in general a minimum dwelling size of 30 square…

Marc C

Wed, 02 Mar 2016 18:47:57 +1300

Come on, that is just plain silly. Richard Burton knows what is being planned, he was one of the select few that sat in meetings with Council and with developers, Housing NZ and a few others, to agree on changes to development controls and density rules for MHU and MHS…

Sacha

Wed, 02 Mar 2016 10:31:16 +1300

I've seen many other designs that appear more sensitive to their surroundings.

Russell Brown

Wed, 02 Mar 2016 10:05:52 +1300

Ak 2040 spurn new peace-making efforts by Council. Article also shows the sort of image Mr Burton has been using to scare the public.

Burton seems determined to burn everything to the ground.

Zach Bagnall

Wed, 02 Mar 2016 09:24:27 +1300

Looks pretty good to me!

Sacha

Wed, 02 Mar 2016 08:08:13 +1300

Ak 2040 spurn new peace-making efforts by Council. Article also shows the sort of image Mr Burton has been using to scare the public.

Sacha

Wed, 02 Mar 2016 08:02:51 +1300

there are some areas that need more legal clarifications. Council admit themselves, they need to look into this more closely and get back to the Panel.

Council only has until tomorrow before they are due to give evidence.

Marc C

Tue, 01 Mar 2016 22:13:42 +1300

I read both memos, there are some areas that need more legal clarifications. Council admit themselves, they need to look into this more closely and get back to the Panel. We got a lot of disaster talk from Council's leading planners before, I do not give every word they say…

Sacha

Tue, 01 Mar 2016 17:39:09 +1300

May be business as usual for the panel, but certainly not for council witnesses. The last paragraph of the Judge's response is crucial:

The presentation of evidence by persons who appear as experts must be in accordance with the Code of Conduct for Expert Witnesses. It is essential that a…

Marc C

Tue, 01 Mar 2016 17:17:53 +1300

From the IHP website – direct PDF link:

https://hearings.aupihp.govt.nz/online-services/new/files/AUil6Mr5yLp2qvNv6UaRdJZf2PERUSaYB4HkLJfElAUi

Panel’s response:
https://hearings.aupihp.govt.nz/online-services/new/files/GlkDeGat7zzO2rgdsTD8glD1qPa9LM2pn7OLmD3Sg1Gl

As I suggested in an earlier comment, from the Panel’s point of view it will be business as usual, and they will proceed with the hearing, leaving it to Council representatives to perhaps act within new limitations to…

Sacha

Tue, 01 Mar 2016 12:07:54 +1300

Council releases update on process.

Marc C

Tue, 01 Mar 2016 08:57:35 +1300

Yes, while there rests a lot of responsibility with Council, whose failings have become apparent, and whose idea of planning and process have also been shown (lacking), there lies one other MAIN responsible party in this, which continues to wash its hands in innocence.

Carrying on with the laissez faire…

Sacha

Tue, 01 Mar 2016 07:40:00 +1300

Recent actions are helping the PM and cabinet pin housing problems on council, not themselves.

"The brutal reality is that Auckland needs to accommodate a lot more people. So [councillors] are going to have to address those issues. How they do it, I don't know.

"If they can't find a solution,…

linger

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 20:38:16 +1300

* oops, I was wrong on one detail: while "Auckland region" is more extensive than the urban area, Kerikeri was included in the Northland region figures.

Russell Brown

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 20:03:15 +1300

Let me embed Hayden Donnell's highly amusing report for you:

https://youtu.be/WdlXTJIL7Oc

Sacha

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:38:03 +1300

Le Spinoff has a piece including actual video of the meeting – judge the crowd for yourself. Warning: highly biased story.

Fen Tex

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 18:22:21 +1300

There are probably more diverse restaurant options in the wee suburb I live in than there are in Chch total,

Have you not been back since varsity Moz? There's plenty of diversity in food in Christchurch now (although I'd rather the Vietnamese place round the corner was still the Dutch…

linger

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 14:50:53 +1300

“Sleepy village” life may well appeal to some immigrants from England, but they’re a small minority of those coming to Auckland. Kerikeri was actually included within Statistics NZ’s figures for Auckland (region) migration, but even so, Britons accounted for just 17% of the Auckland total (compared to 27% for the…

Sacha

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 13:27:48 +1300

it seems quite a few do love the prospect of life in a "sleepy village" and they are not alone.

So why do we need to bribe migrants?

Sacha

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 13:27:22 +1300

Conclusion: there has to be an effort to create permanent, meaningful jobs in the provinces before any attempt to divert migration flows away from Auckland can have any impact at all.

Agreed.

Steve Barnes

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 12:00:01 +1300

Yet most of those people do not love the prospect of life in a sleepy village with few of their own culture.
I was in Kerikeri the other day, went to Bunnings, had some lunch looked at some boats for our next big adventure. On the way back we popped…

Moz

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 11:55:26 +1300

Yet most of those people do not love the prospect of life in a sleepy village with few of their own culture

This, even though my culture is very Christchurch-compatible except in the very brutal sense that Chch is a very small town a long way from anywhere. There are…

linger

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:44:17 +1300

Conclusion: there has to be an effort to create permanent, meaningful jobs in the provinces before any attempt to divert migration flows away from Auckland can have any impact at all.

But job creation — beyond shoulder-tapping their close mates — has not exactly been a priority for the current…

Sacha

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:41:26 +1300

the provinces would love the financial and entrepreneurial input of those that want to make a new start

Yet most of those people do not love the prospect of life in a sleepy village with few of their own culture. Hence having to bribe some of them with points to…

linger

Mon, 29 Feb 2016 10:16:27 +1300

The Auckland migration report I linked to shows the effect of a policy change in 2003 which increased points for immigrants with job offers outside Auckland.
Arrivals to Auckland decreased 25% relative to the rest of the country. But net migration to other regions was … zero, implying most such…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 22:43:25 +1300

More accurately, arrivals disproportionately affect Auckland

Well yes. This is a matter of government policy, lack of influence in getting new immigrants to consider anything other than Auckland. We need more people in the provinces and this should be encouraged, the free for all attitude of the current Government helps…

linger

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 19:23:54 +1300

More accurately, arrivals disproportionately affect Auckland; departures less so. Even over the past decade, when NZ as a whole has had relatively low net migration, the Auckland population has still grown through international migration, as well as through internal migration. The 2010 Statistics New Zealand report __New Zealand’s International Migration…

Sacha

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 19:08:05 +1300

Simon Wilson has to some degree discredited himself, same as Bernard Hickey has, with these exaggerations about “heckling”, “shouting” and so forth

It's exactly what I heard from the microphones of submitters who had the crowd behind them – and I was surprised. Those mics aren't set up to collect…

Joshua Arbury

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 19:04:17 +1300

Sorry Steve I should have been clearer. What I meant is that the net migration gain (immigrants minus emigrants) has risen dramatically in the past few years compared to what happened during most of the 2006-2013 period.

Interestingly house prices still increased a lot between 2006 and 2o13 even though…

linger

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 18:16:21 +1300

NZ immigration has fairly consistently exceeded emigration over the past few decades, but by wildly variable amounts over that time. The natural increase (births – deaths) is fairly constant, so can be planned for; the net migration is much harder to predict in advance (and disproportionately affects Auckland).

Some sample…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:52:23 +1300

Migration is a two way street.... hence Emigration and Immigration.
Brain Drain Emigration offsetting Immigration but not including natural population growth would surely mean more unless Immigration was really low numbers at the time.
I read from your statement that population flow in either direction was less because of more…

linger

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:52:20 +1300

Not that anyone would suggest the NZ economy should be deliberately* downsized in order to force more Kiwis to emigrate – not least because Auckland would be the last place to be affected.

[* it's a purely accidental result of existing policies.]

Joshua Arbury

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:34:24 +1300

Less net migration. More emigration (remember the brain drain of hundreds a week leaving for Australia).

Steve Barnes

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:19:23 +1300

mainly due to less migration.

Greater, surely?

Joshua Arbury

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:04:26 +1300

Obviously I can't say much on this topic, given I work for Council.

Just one point on immigration, yes there has been a big spike in the last couple of years but that seems to be largely driven by fewer NZers leaving for overseas and more returning. Can't do much…

Steve Barnes

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 16:40:48 +1300

Its quite amazing watching this debate, as an ex Aucklander, from outside Auckland.
I will say this..
The bubble will burst when enough Auckland home owners realise they could move to the sticks and retire on the “value” of their property. Thing is is that the bubble will continue until…

Marc C

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 16:17:37 +1300

Simon Wilson has to some degree discredited himself, same as Bernard Hickey has, with these exaggerations about “heckling”, “shouting” and so forth, watch the video found via a link further above, and it will show that the actual atmosphere was tense, but definitely not at the described level.

I quote:…

Graham Dunster

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 14:23:02 +1300

Here's a good overview that answers a lot of the Swan/Marc back and forth – http://www.metromag.co.nz/city-life/simon-wilsons-auckland/the-miserables-of-kohimarama/?utm_source=exacttarget&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=34891&utm_content=272875&user_id=583e31324409926e44bc3e49455a9f6ad462c1f6. Dushko Bogunovich from Unitec could do with some more comments to answer there, too!

Marc C

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 12:56:23 +1300

I am not sure whether this has already been presented in one of the many earlier comments, but here are anyway the Minutes on the extraordinary meeting by the Auckland Council Governing Body on 24 Feb. 2016:

http://infocouncil.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/Open/2016/02/GB_20160224_MIN_6533_EXTRA.PDF

Some questions may yet need to be clarified by legal experts, but…

John Farrell

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 07:35:03 +1300

Is Mussolini standing for mayor?

Zach Bagnall

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 07:25:16 +1300

No one's talking about the causes for immigration here because it's mostly immaterial. As long as Auckland continues to appear in the top 3 liveable cities in the world it's going to grow, and the question is how Auckland deals with that.

Talking about who's coming and from where and…

Christopher Randal

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 02:37:19 +1300

Your comments about the attitudes and reactions of council employees have reinforced my view that they have hijacked council for their own ends and the Governing Body is powerless against them.

One hopes that the new council will rule with an iron fist.

Marc C

Sun, 28 Feb 2016 01:16:44 +1300

Thanks for the clarifications. As I already commented, we could start with some more proactive regional planning, thus enabling more jobs and business in regions. We can further incentivise the new migrants to move to other parts of the country, the government seems to have started with that giving more…

linger

Sat, 27 Feb 2016 20:41:51 +1300

Nah, I was referring only to the continual trumpeting of elephants (Asian or otherwise). Packing away the pachyderms (presumably, into a massive trunk):
Immigration is an important factor for population planning, and deserves mention in that context. I'm interested in what you see as being the council's or the government's…

Marc C

Sat, 27 Feb 2016 17:10:50 +1300

I think they have kind of scored an own goal by that decision, and the arguments Council's planners stated do not convince me. They could still present evidence, or give a statement re what evidence will now be withdrawn due to the decision by the Councillors. Even if that is…

Marc C

Sat, 27 Feb 2016 17:02:49 +1300

Is this the Godwin like version of a judgment for someone commenting critically and generally on immigration? But I thank you, that is exactly why nobody dares mentioning the "elephant in the room". New Zealand is now so PC mad, any critical comment does instantly get interpreted as being racist…

Sacha

Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:44:58 +1300

we will withdraw from the hearing process, apart from perhaps presenting legal evidence

ah, their experts explicitly said they won't be presenting evidence.

Sacha

Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:43:30 +1300

defending Council as being the good faith acting vested interest party. They want intensification and growth, because they want more residents

Again, please stop making this ridiculous claim.

linger

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 23:50:10 +1300

the elephant in the room, […] high level immigrationPhrasing it that way so often (this is, what, the fourth time now?)
negates the usual meaning of “avoided topic”
and just starts to sound slightly anti-Asian.

Marc C

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 23:41:13 +1300

The current situation is very unfair to submitters who have called for upzoning. They are being treated as if their submissions dont even exist.

That totally contradicts what Council's planners and Penny Hulse said (in a text message a few days ago) or what was suggested. They (Council planners) said,…

Marc C

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 23:17:11 +1300

To be honest, the whole hearing process has been a bit of a farce. Firstly in the consultation process up to the Draft version, only selected stake holder groups were consulted. Once the Draft was moderated, other issues arose. To make effective submissions one needs good legal and planning advice,…

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 22:14:39 +1300

So what then Marc C, no submissions, no hearings? We just adopt the plan the council comes up with straight off the bat? Because if it is not reasonable to expect people to read submissions, then the upshot is we couldn't use them to change the plan. That sounds like…

Marc C

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 21:49:01 +1300

Well it turns out if you use the actual definition of out of scope, instead of the definition they used in the conservative approach, effectively none of these zone changes are out of scope.

In practice this means anyone could have submitted against thouse submissions calling for the upzoning if…

Marc C

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 21:27:38 +1300

NO mention of the elephant in the room, rather high level immigration, on top of natural growth and some fleeing the other less developed regions, to find work and do business in Auckland. It is incredible, we are supposed to be “powerless” when it comes to perhaps put more controls…

Marc C

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 21:21:38 +1300

I have said it before, Auckland should never have been allowed to spread as it has over the last half century, and it should never have been planned to suit the motor vehicles now being driven around everywhere. I have not owned a car for years, yet live in the…

Zach Bagnall

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 20:38:46 +1300

* A bigger share of the infrastructure spend on urban centres outside Auckland with over 50k-100k people.
* Encouraging major NZ companies to decentralise, within reason.
* Winning the PR battle against "Generation Rentier" and implementing a CGT, non-resident stamp duty, among other measures.

And make the minimum wage in…

Sacha

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 19:06:08 +1300

http://transportblog.co.nz/2016/02/26/a-brief-explanation-of-what-just-happened-with-the-unitary-plan

Kumara Republic

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 15:27:57 +1300

Stephanie Rodgers has a name for the whole thing: the Epsom Paradox, dishonourably established by the NZ branch of Generation Rentier.

And regarding the whole intergenerational theft thing, the likes of Martin Shkreli go to show that Generation Rentier isn't just a Boomer thing.

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 12:35:48 +1300

With SDR and the readers guide I think they have done a pretty good job. How would you summarise several thousand submissions. I suppose they could have mapped them all and put them into a GIS system at some cost. Whats your point? Did you raise this difficulty with the…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 12:21:18 +1300

Well, the Reserve Bank has an inflation target, which conveniently excludes property.

What we could have is a target for Auckland property prices of say 5% annual deflation for the next five years followed by zero growth.

Then you have a bunch of pre-announced measures to achieve this. Start out…

Glenn Pearce

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:58:37 +1300

Not really any better is it, can you identify all the submissions affecting say Glendowie or Westmere easily?

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:52:00 +1300

Glenn,

They are on the AC website:

http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/en/planspoliciesprojects/plansstrategies/unitaryplan/pages/submissions.aspx

Sacha

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:37:37 +1300

Perhaps the government seemed relaxed after council's reversal because they already intended to change the entire structure of planning anyway (despite their earlier RMA proposals being rebuffed by coalition partners).

Over the past 25 years, New Zealand had gone through extended reforms of the electricity, telecommunication and financial markets.

"In each…

Glenn Pearce

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:34:54 +1300

The domain name hearings.aupihp.govt.nz is registered to the Council, the conspiracy theorists would say they're deliberately making it difficult to find documents :-)

Glenn Pearce

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:32:42 +1300

It's not even possible to find documents affecting a general area or suburb, let alone an individual property.

The search function appears to only search the document title, not the contents from what I can tell.

Not sure who is managing the document management, whether it is the IHP or…

Glenn Pearce

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:24:52 +1300

The IHP document website is absolutely hopeless with extremely limited ability to search documents and the overwhelming volume of documents would make it almost impossible for any individual property owner to identify submissions that may affect their property for starters.

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:20:25 +1300

Marc,

I think you are missing the point of what they mean by "conservative". By conservative they mean they are "erring on the side of caution" to put proposed zone changes into the "out of scope" bucket, when actually them may not be. Well it turns out if you use…

Sacha

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:15:57 +1300

There have been various models run by the research unit of Council, re what feasible capacity there is for intensification and further residential development.

Feasible capacity is the important figure – and that's why the expert group included property developers who fed into the modelling a reality check.

Both the…

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:13:53 +1300

Yes, but if you think that if the IHP magically declares they are all In Scope that the Councillors that voted for the removal will change their mind you’re dreaming.

Over on TransportBlog they are seriously talking about how they should have made individual up zoning requests for every single…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:04:34 +1300

feel free to suggest any ideas to bring forward the Auckland housing bubble burst

Well, the Reserve Bank has an inflation target, which conveniently excludes property.

What we could have is a target for Auckland property prices of say 5% annual deflation for the next five years followed by zero…

Glenn Pearce

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 10:31:41 +1300

Yes, but if you think that if the IHP magically declares they are all In Scope that the Councillors that voted for the removal will change their mind you're dreaming.

Over on TransportBlog they are seriously talking about how they should have made individual up zoning requests for every single…

Marc C

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:57:57 +1300

There have been so-called "generic" or rather general re-zoning submissions, and there have been site specific or geographically specific re-zoning submissions. One major submitter was Housing NZ, who presented both types of submission points, asking for many property lots to be up-zoned or at least re-zoned. They also want up…

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:50:29 +1300

Glenn, it is also very relevant because it is the definition used in the resolution that they voted on! Thats what the council has to work with now.

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:41:04 +1300

Well you have a peculiar view on this, as the discussion during Council’s extraordinary meeting on this seemed to make clear that the blue bordered amendments on maps were considered to be “out of scope”.

No it didn't. If you listened to the planning officers they said that they had…

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:37:37 +1300

"Legally relevant perhaps but I still think the same level of uproar would have occurred had they been labelled Out of Scope or not"

No doubt many people would have roared no matter what. I have seen many "uproar" comments in the current debate referring to zoning from the PAUP…

Glenn Pearce

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:25:53 +1300

Legally relevant perhaps but I still think the same level of uproar would have occurred had they been labelled Out of Scope or not

The phrase "Out of Scope" is sort of inflammatory in itself though, it implies not justified or secret it some way.

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:21:04 +1300

Its very relevant Glenn. The councillors, particularly the swing councillors like Darby were hanging their desicion on "process". The issue is noone has a chance to submit on out of scope changes, but they did have a chance to submit on in scope changes (or more specifically the submissions calling…

Glenn Pearce

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:10:10 +1300

In/out of scope is kind of irrelevant it's the scale of the late changes that has people upset, most (including many of the Councillors) would have been expecting limited changes from the Notified version.

It's certainly a shambles

Marc C

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 09:08:47 +1300

Well you have a peculiar view on this, as the discussion during Council's extraordinary meeting on this seemed to make clear that the blue bordered amendments on maps were considered to be "out of scope". There appears to have been enough agreement for Councillors to cast their votes, and had…

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:55:58 +1300

The irony of this is that the council sought to be "conservative" in determining what was in and out of scope in order to push more things out of scope to give people more appeal rights.

Now that this has happened the council may be forced to take a more…

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:52:34 +1300

Thanks Glenn,

It is a very interesting resolution and quite different to what had been conveyed to me. It is interesting that it refers to "out-of-scope", and not specifically the blue bordered areas on the maps. This indicates they are asking for things that are actually out of scope to…

Glenn Pearce

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:44:45 +1300

At 6 hrs 11 minutes in the Video linked to above it is displayed on the screen.

Just re-read it actually, it only mentions the "out of scope" changes, I believe there was an alteration to allow out of scope that are error cortrections to proceed.

Marc C

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:43:05 +1300

The comments re being "shouted down" and even "racist taunts" were not mentioned by you, but they were mentioned by the media yesterday. And one of the ones who seem to have made such claims was Bernard Hickey, who was there, so I was astonished how he could make such…

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:30:07 +1300

Hi Glenn, do you have a link to the wording of the resolution? Thanks

Glenn Pearce

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 08:21:04 +1300

Well if that is what has happened (and I don't think anything has happened yet, the council issued a statement saying they are working through it) then they have taken an action contrary to the motion that was voted on.

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 07:51:16 +1300

Glenn,

This is what was said by a Councillor:

"We could not easily partly withdraw our evidence with the IHP so the revocation withdraws it all. The planners integrated so much material that this was the cleaner way."

Remember, the blue isn't out of scope, the council used an incorrect…

Leanne Pooley

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 07:39:13 +1300

There have been a number of pieces on the Money Laundering issue on Rod Oram's Interest.co.nz site. It has an impact on house prices here, no question.

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 07:37:43 +1300

but I did not see or hear anyone shouting her down

Uh, on reflection I think we might me talking past each other. I'm pretty sure I've never said anyone got "shouted down" but I'm not proud to admit you can do an awful lot of unpleasant sledging without getting…

Glenn Pearce

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 07:16:04 +1300

Sorry, I see what you're getting at, yes because the motion specified 2 dates it would have included some in scope changes but the late alteration to the motion should allow those to proceed if they were error corrections.

Glenn Pearce

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 07:11:19 +1300

It would interesting to know which councillor told you that.

The wording of the motion they voted on clearly stated all changes submitted on 2 specific dates (that I don't recall) and there was a late alteration during the meeting to exclude minor changes that were error corections.

It covered…

Marc C

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 06:10:39 +1300

Well, watch and listed to that video presented by someone further up in this discussion thread, some have clearly tended to exaggerate, which is what I observed. The groan or occasional angry comment from some to the back in the meeting room were audible, but they were swiftly told to…

Swan

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 06:06:12 +1300

Glenn Pearce they withdrew the entire submission, I got clarification by a councillor.

Whether the proposed changes were out of scope or not is very relevant. If in scope (which they were) there was no secrecy, as it was within the scope of relief sought by submitters. If the council…

Marc C

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 05:48:06 +1300

It is not even part of the inner, Central Auckland suburbs, but even here ordinary units now cost around at least half a million dollars, and many homes near or around a million dollars or more.

People ignore the elephant in the room, that is continued high immigration on top…

Marc C

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 05:30:02 +1300

Thanks for presenting a link to the video of the special Council hearing on 24 February. So Flora and Alex were shouted down, according to Mr Bernard Hickey, who was there but presented a flawed report on the hearing?

I see and hear nobody being "shouted down" or even kept…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 02:29:33 +1300

Waiting for the crash that will fix everything is a hopeless strategy. Ever increasing property value is baked into the economy at this point. People depend on it for their retirement.

Likely the same people who got burned in the 1987 sharemarket bubble burst, in an atmosphere of blind faith…

Simon Lyall

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 01:05:56 +1300

She talked about all those lovely older homes in my area, and how nice it was, as she knew no such homes still existed in much of Sydney. Then I had to tell her that our suburb has in large areas been proposed to be zoned into Terrace Housing and…

Craig Ranapia

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 00:44:11 +1300

I went also for a walk through the Viaduct Harbour development, seeing all these nice developments for the filthy rich, who park their luxury yachts in the harbour outside. That is the “affordable housing” for those earning enough, at the upper end of course

Another reality check, Marc — find…

Simon Lyall

Fri, 26 Feb 2016 00:43:37 +1300

The video of the meeting/presentations are here. Flora and Alex start talking at 1h 2m

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDPN0VQVDY8

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 23:35:01 +1300

intensification that has led to homes being unaffordable

Now you're being downright silly. More intensive dwellings are cheaper.

Zach Bagnall

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 23:32:08 +1300

Everyone reading this thread, feel free to suggest any ideas to bring forward the Auckland housing bubble burst. Sure, it'll be ugly and there'll be collateral damage, but I'm angry about the whole affair and it's the only thing guaranteed to rewrite the rules in the absence of political will.…

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 23:31:25 +1300

it also seems to have an art installation by Christo attached to it

courtesy of the previous Nat govt and their fashionable leaky buildings

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 23:25:36 +1300

As some made some comments re the "older members of the public"

Sigh. No such thing. One of the presenters for council's youth panel said she felt the weight of half a million young Aucklanders on her shoulders and could see she was one of few young people in the…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 23:13:21 +1300

The only way to stop property inflation is introduce measures that remove the expectation of gain and the ability to finance.

Auckland’s rentier class is beyond reasoning with now, and I’ve previously mentioned that they’re just as wealthy and powerful as an unelected House of (Land)Lords. Everyone reading this thread,…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 22:28:45 +1300

Somehow we are on the wrong track in this country, where the rich have gotten even more rich, own their nice patches and more, and where most struggle to afford their homes, which ever more of them can only rent. This country is stuffed, and neither central government nor Council…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 22:13:43 +1300

P.S.: And re those claims that young representatives were “shouted down”, that is not true either.

Just for the record, Youth Advisory Panel deputy Chair Alex Johnson's account of that meeting is here.

When Flora, justifiably nervous with the responsibility and the tense atmosphere in the room, pointed out that…

Moz

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 22:05:36 +1300

Auckland is not going to go from a median multiple of 10 to 3 in my lifetime absent revolution or natural disaster.

Look at Christchurch and tell me a natural disaster will lower house prices. Admittedly in that case followed by a protracted, entirely man-made disaster. To misquote, "he's the…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 21:57:14 +1300

Seriously did Len Brown steal Bernard Orsman’s lunch when he was a kid?

No idea, but I think we've have to raise Zombie Freud to run intensive group therapy to get to the bottom of The Herald's obsession with slut-shaming Len Brown's penis out of office.

Leanne Pooley

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 21:48:37 +1300

How unusual that the media has taken the lazy option of clinging to the Nimby vs Progress narrative. Why bother looking the complex layers of the issue when they can run with good guys and bad guys.

Zach Bagnall

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 21:43:01 +1300

There is an answer to the Auckland housing problem, for some – 2 years ago, my daughter and son in law left Auckland for Dunedin – they despaired of buying a house in Auckland. Two months ago, they bought a house here -

Agreed, ultimately that's the way to go…

Leanne Pooley

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 21:39:18 +1300

I think we're at cross purposes John. The Gen-0 brigade have argued that Nimbies are keeping them out of the inner city suburbs where they want to live. My point is that apartments in Ponsonby, Grey Lynn, Westmere etc. won't provide them with the cheap inner-city housing they want because…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 21:33:36 +1300

slummertime blues...
I don't see the problem – there are plenty of volcanic cones in Auckland that could have perfectly good favelas created on their slopes...
We have a lot of corrugated iron roofing going to landfill here in Chchch we could send a coupla trainloads up to start things…

Marc C

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:54:15 +1300

I met a woman from Sydney, Australia, when waiting for a bus to take me to that Council meeting (as an interested person). She talked about all those lovely older homes in my area, and how nice it was, as she knew no such homes still existed in much of…

Marc C

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:46:41 +1300

So a refusal is the same as being "excluded"?

Marc C

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:39:31 +1300

And how is your submission for unlimited heights in Manukau and elsewhere going, for the Super Metro Centres?

Have you not a vested interest in intensification, as I suspect?

Which developers have you consulted with over recent months?

Marc C

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:27:01 +1300

I heard the first comments by government today, reported on by the media. If it is correct that Bill English sent signals that the government may step in to force more intensification in Auckland, or to push Council to allow for this, then it shows me yet again, that we…

Rich of Observationz

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:23:27 +1300

I think intensification is important to try and reduce sprawl (although given Aucklander’s love for sprawl, cars and traffic jams, I can’t see this working until fuel finally becomes unaffordable).

However, I don’t think it will reduce prices. Housing in Auckland has become a token independent of utility. As has…

Marc C

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 20:18:25 +1300

The media reporting on this is shockingly incompetent, biased and misleading. I was there, not as a so-called "nimby" (I support some intensification in suitable areas in the right manner), but as an interested observer. I know some people who submitted as ordinary residents of Auckland, who are concerned about…

Tom Semmens

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:31:53 +1300

I am not what is more amazing about that Orsman piece – its shear gloating malevolence or that he managed to restrain himself from calling the mayor "pants down". An utterly, ridiculously, one sided bit of tripe.

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:20:54 +1300

and imported demand tends to start at the top and work its way down.

John Palethorpe

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:05:20 +1300

Here’s the thing about intensification in richer areas, it helps younger and new buyers to get homes. It really does. Here’s how.

An established buyer or portfolio holder, with sufficient funds, wants to buy in one of the richer areas, but there’s no properties there. As a result, they buy…

John Farrell

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:43:28 +1300

I checked the real estate listings here this morning. There are (admittedly old, and needing work) houses for sale in Dunedin for under $200,000. If you were able to support yourself, there are better prices in places like Lawrence, Milton, Balclutha and Oamaru.

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:34:44 +1300

an answer to the Auckland housing problem

Makes sense, hence rising house prices in other NZ cities recently. Ironically at least some of the grumpy grey folk at yesterday's meeting should prepare to visit their grandchildren in other cities and countries, and to die alone in a multi-storey retirement complex…

Russell Brown

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:33:24 +1300

The fact is having apartments at the end of streets on main roads makes perfect sense. Plopping them in the middle of tiny cresents (as suggested in the out-of-scope plan) doesn’t.

I agree, and I wonder if the fact that we submitted on HNZ's submission to spot-rezone in our street…

John Farrell

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:31:02 +1300

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:21:36 +1300

If the Government was serious about home ownership equality they'd introduce policy that discouraged rampant speculation

If only their libertarian straitjacket allowed such thoughts.

Instead, Bernard Hickey told RNZ's Panel that our Finance Minister today told a business audience he was going to radically restructure the housing market the same…

Leanne Pooley

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:20:40 +1300

The fact is having apartments at the end of streets on main roads makes perfect sense. Plopping them in the middle of tiny cresents (as suggested in the out-of-scope plan) doesn’t.

Leanne Pooley

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 18:11:00 +1300

I can't believe we've allowed the Nimby vs Progress narrative to distract from what is really happening, it's a land grab that will NOT help the young or the disadvantaged into central Auckland. We all agree intensification needs to happen but lets not kid ourselves that private property development will…

Russell Brown

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 17:41:57 +1300

It’s a retirement village that literally has the North Shore Hospital over the back fence, has a major public transport hub across the road, is well served by amenities that are easily accessible. As I understand it, a lot of residents either can’t drive or choose not to keep cars…

Russell Brown

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 17:39:55 +1300

And how is this even published anywhere let alone in the biggest newspaper in the country, what a load of tripe.

As I noted on Twitter, the Herald has been on the wrong side of history quite a few times over the decades.

Orsman seems determined to take up the…

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 17:22:06 +1300

What it was like to be one of the rare young people in that room yesterday.

omg, the comments.

Bart Janssen

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 17:14:09 +1300

Seriously did Len Brown steal Bernard Orsman's lunch when he was a kid?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11595378

And how is this even published anywhere let alone in the biggest newspaper in the country, what a load of tripe.

Russell Brown

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 17:07:18 +1300

Orsman's column today makes it pretty clear where his reporting comes from:

Last night's vote to scuttle housing density plans is a victory for democracy and another black mark against the Len Brown-Penny Hulse leadership.

Mayoral candidate Vic Crone hit the nail on the head when she said the Unitary Plan…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:59:08 +1300

Okay hands up who knows where the most recent piece of urban intensification is in Takapuna?

That’ll be The Poynton all five storeys of it.

The delicious irony is that it’s actually a pretty good case study in why “intensification” can be a damn good idea. (And yes, it’s ugly…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:57:22 +1300

S.N.A.F.U.
As crazy as disbanding an elected body that was protecting waterways from overuse and appointing a commission that to greenlight dairy expansion in one of the least suitable environments in NZ.
It can't happen here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svdrAHn_LGo

Still no firm indication when the National Water Barons will take their boot…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:37:37 +1300

Okay hands up who knows where the most recent piece of urban intensification is in Takapuna?

And the next most recent is the 30-storey Sentinel, which wouldn't be out of place in Vancouver or Manhattan.

Keir Leslie

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:20:34 +1300

When the Canterbury RC was put into commission, all the members of the authority were sacked, and the commissioners took over all their powers for all purposes, not just the water-related stuff. Unsure where local boards fall here, but I'd guess they'd be gone too.

You can appoint a crown…

Russell Brown

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:59:33 +1300

And the whole thing makes a Bloomberg blog that draws comparisons with similar battles in America:

I have cited, again and again, the estimate by economists Chang-Tai Hsieh and Enrico Moretti that reducing regulatory constraints on housing to the national norm in just New York, San Francisco and San Jose…

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:56:18 +1300

I'm not very happy today.

unsurprisingly.

nzlemming

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:52:31 +1300

Would replacing Governing Body with Commissioners only apply to the Unitary Plan process? And what about Local Boards, do they get replaced too? It is a shared governance model after all.

No. It's all or nothing, as I understand it. The UP is already being handled by an independent entity.…

nzlemming

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:46:38 +1300

The Herald has been running a typical disinformation campaign against the Unitary Plan for reasons I can’t figure out.

Because Bernard Orsman hates Len Brown. It really is that simple.

Julie Fairey

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:42:53 +1300

Would replacing Governing Body with Commissioners only apply to the Unitary Plan process? And what about Local Boards, do they get replaced too? It is a shared governance model after all.

I'm not very happy today. That's probably about all I should say about that right now.

Bart Janssen

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:37:51 +1300

aren’t so bad when they’re being filled by affluent elderly registered voters

Not to mention the shares in Ryman

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:28:14 +1300

Penelope Keith
You probably hit the right demographic here to get that reference – but are we talking The Good Life Penelope Keith or the To the Manor Born Penelope Keith?
:- )

Ben Ross

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 15:06:40 +1300

Government can either install Commissioners now or in August and cop bigger backlash.

In any case Key will survive as Orakei wont vote for Little in a hurry.

As for Commissioners they can be there until the 2019 elections. Basically means see the Unitary Plan through and most appeals in…

81stcolumn

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 13:59:34 +1300

@craig you beat me by minutes.......

81stcolumn

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 13:58:41 +1300

At the very least, those who advocate intensification need to carry the existing residents of the areas planned for intensification.

Okay hands up who knows where the most recent piece of urban intensification is in Takapuna?

That'll be The Poynton all five storeys of it.

__The Poynton is a premium…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 13:54:43 +1300

Just like to mention we got intensification on the end of our street a decade ago (55ish apartments)

Just as Councillors Chris Darby and George Wood’s problems with “intensification” don’t seem to apply to retirement home developments. I guess big ugly blocks of over-priced ticky tacky aren’t so bad when…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 13:45:39 +1300

Just like to mention we got intensification on the end of our street a decade ago (55ish apartments)

The. Sky. Did. Not. Fall.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 13:30:43 +1300

These massively entited rentiers who heckled the chair and deputy of the Youth Advisory Panel yesterday will take nothing but complete and abject surrender. Richard Burton’s performance on Morning Report today made that perfectly clear. I do you the courtesy of assuming you’re neither foolish or disingenuous enough not to…

Craig Ranapia

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 13:14:00 +1300

Given Nick Smith’s comments that the Auckland submissions are now ‘nonsense’ due to the withdrawl of justifiable zoning planning, I’d say we’re headed to the Independent Hearing Panel without a strong voice for Auckland.

And whatever you think of Nick Smith (he’s not popular around here, to put it mildly)…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:36:00 +1300

ECan has shown they can get away with it. No voter backlash at all.

Unless of course, the water starts becoming like that of Flint, Michigan.

Glenn Pearce

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:27:52 +1300

Quite, the labelling "out of scope" is largely irrelevant. It's the "surprise" nature of it and the general lack of transparency that caused the problems.

As I've said before if the revised maps were issued with notes for each area indicating why each of the zoning changes had occurred and…

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:23:59 +1300

The Property Council is unamused:

Property Council is appalled with Auckland councillors who have withdrawn their support to rezone Auckland suburbs with the capacity for more housing and apartments.

Auckland Branch President Phil Eaton says soaring house prices are creating systemic social injustice, inequity and major economic risk.
...

“We…

Wichid

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:19:46 +1300

Serious question, if the Out of Scope changes have inter-dependencies on other changes then by definition they’re not Out of Scope surely?

What would be an example of an Out of Scope change that had inter-dependencies on other changes.

True, but I think that the anti-density groups would have just…

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:19:28 +1300

What it was like to be one of the rare young people in that room yesterday.

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:15:20 +1300

Why not wait and see what Goff's like to deal with before picking a huge fight that you're likely to end up on the wrong side of?

It won't be Goff they are concerned about but the bozos we've just seen in action. Mayor only gets one vote.

izogi

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 12:06:35 +1300

What next? Winston advocating Green policies....

In Winston's defence (ugh) NZ First has had policies about obliterating 1080 use for a while, though it's usually spearheaded by Richard Prosser. But yeah, he seems to have ignored that (briefly) with the latest media statement. Its more pure stance historically [[http://nzfirst.org.nz/news/new-zealand-first-appalled-planned-1080-increase|has tended…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:47:18 +1300

In any case, the Unitary Plan has single-handedly sorted out the actual free-marketeers from the Generation Rentier brigade.

If Donald Trump fails to take the White House and decides to look to Auckland for new business, popcorn merchants will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Keir Leslie

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:43:28 +1300

Also if they could mobilise to protect a councillor who was on the fence but scared – if you're a councillor who'd like to support density but you look over to where Northey used to be and see Krum sitting there as a result of a scaremongering anti-intensification campaign, and…

James Dunne

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:37:06 +1300

The awful truth is that millenials don't vote enough for anybody to really care what they think. If Generation Zero et al could mobilise enough votes to unseat even two or three of the councillors responsible, things might be different. But they can't so they won't.

Glenn Pearce

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:32:45 +1300

The crowd was certainly hostile but Pirritt was poor when she started off talking about St Heliers Bay Rd and Riddell Rd which of course aren't in Glendowie.

Then when Brewer read the guidelines for MHU (near train, bus routes, town centre etc.) and then pointed out areas of Glendowie…

Keir Leslie

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:32:06 +1300

Much different dynamics : as far as urban residents care, ECan does buses and water, neither of which are big issues in the way that these zoning issues are. The Ecan removal basically just confirmed people's beliefs in a way that didn't shift voter intentions. The AC structure & Unitary Plan…

Glenn Pearce

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:27:55 +1300

because of inter-dependencies will collapse on itself.

Serious question, if the Out of Scope changes have inter-dependencies on other changes then by definition they're not Out of Scope surely?

What would be an example of an Out of Scope change that had inter-dependencies on other changes.

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:24:00 +1300

There are already plenty of expensive apartments being built in the CBD. It's the other locations you mentioned that would not cope with just high-rises.

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:21:33 +1300

Govt could put commissioners in right now for 2 years, promising an election after that. If they leave it until closer to the scheduled election, gets politically way harder as you say.

ECan has shown they can get away with it. No voter backlash at all.

Wichid

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:20:47 +1300

The council officers did a fine job regarding Glendowie against a hostile, rude and out of order mob behind them. The plan is a 30 year plan and the crowd seemed to think that housing changes would be instantaneous while supporting infrastructure would never happen.

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:18:23 +1300

You can't get elected members to vote against their constituents' wishes in an election years, it's just not feasible, and if you construct a process that requires that you are set up for failure.

Yet that is precisely the timing the govt created, almost like they knew it would apply…

Wichid

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:12:18 +1300

Removing just the out-of-scope changes isn't possible as you end up with a pock marked map that, because of inter-dependencies will collapse on itself. The Council Officers made it clear that the spatial application of the planning principles is supported by evidence up to a professional standard. The planners can't…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:09:01 +1300

It would be an absolute undemocratic outrage

As crazy as disbanding an elected body that was protecting waterways from overuse and appointing a commission that to greenlight dairy expansion in one of the least suitable environments in NZ.

Bart Janssen

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:05:42 +1300

I doubt people are asking for high-rise ghettos like previous councils allowed on Nelson St. Medium-rise is the typology we are most missing.

Exactly, and also not all in one place but spread through the mid-range suburbs and aligned with improved public transport routes.

This isn't rocket science and it…

Keir Leslie

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 11:04:19 +1300

There is no way Key puts commissioners into Auckland.

It would be an absolute undemocratic outrage, the optics of shafting a Goff either possessing or about to take a huge mandate are awful, and it would open Labour up to hold an pro-intensification stance – in principle – while simultaneously…

Matthew Hooton

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:29:41 +1300

Leadership sometimes involves putting longer-term evidence-based policy ahead of what the polls say right now.

Yes, but that has been very out of fashion in New Zealand for at least 17 years.

Matthew Hooton

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:27:16 +1300

I doubt people are asking for high-rise ghettos like previous councils allowed on Nelson St.

Those are slums, but very 'affordable' I hear. I was referring more to higher quality apartments to draw in wealthier people (including baby boomers) to the inner city.

Kumara Republic

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:24:37 +1300

Burton and his troops may be celebrating, but that is characteristic of people who literally cannot see beyond the short term. They've actually lost, and lost hugely. They just don't realise it yet.

Just wait till the housing bubble burst comes.

Simon Lyall

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:19:36 +1300

It seems to me vast intensification is possible in these areas (and in the 100m radius around train stations throughout the region) that would create mini-Portlands and mini-Manhattens for people who want them, reduce congestion and make the CBD and transport node areas safer, without causing disruption to suburbs.

You…

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:11:24 +1300

vast intensification is possible in these areas (and in the 100m radius around train stations throughout the region) that would create mini-Portlands and mini-Manhattens for people who want them

I doubt people are asking for high-rise ghettos like previous councils allowed on Nelson St. Medium-rise is the typology we are…

Glenn Pearce

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:09:57 +1300

Well I did hear Pirritt rather than Duguid say it might be difficult to get the planners to defend the previous version of the plan knowing the work that had gone into the revised version (although she also said the subject hadn't actually been broached with them). I didn't catch…

Sacha

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:08:00 +1300

As Clark and Key have taught us, part of the effectiveness of a policy is how it is received and accepted by the public, rather than how it reads in a university or think tank environment.

Leadership sometimes involves putting longer-term evidence-based policy ahead of what the polls say right…

Ben Ross

Thu, 25 Feb 2016 10:02:17 +1300

Option 1

Withdraw out of scope changes from the council’s evidence

· Addresses the concerns of some members of the public
· Results in a piecemeal approach as the evidence is completely integrated (geographic areas and in and out of scope)

· A re-write of the expert evidence will be…