Hard News: So long, and thanks for all the fish ...
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Hebe, in reply to
It’s the anti-science / anti-evidence tendency of (some) Green poiicy that puts me off.
Bad choice of example. Fluoridation is no bell-wether for any political party's policies; it's one of the issues that makes I (and many others who have worked in politics) duck when we hear it coming. It brings out the unhinged.
When it comes to GMO's, I am not convinced either way. What I want is the choice to avoid GMO's in the food chain until their safety is proven. Is that so loony? Sounds if anything libertarian and freedom-like to me. Ditto my children's schooling: I totally resent the one-size-fits-all state education system when children have different needs and personalities from the get-go. My kids bloom in an integrated school (Steiner), whereas I know others who find their feet in an orthodox state high school or expensive private schools.
My overall point is: each to their own; may we all have the freedom of choice to make such calls (dependent on our own circumstances).
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Sacha, in reply to
If Key can manage not to have a cup of tea with Banks just before the election
he's pretty thirsty, but
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Henry Barnard, in reply to
It brings out the unhinged.
You mean something like this?
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Hebe, in reply to
You mean something like this?
Heh. Not far off. In a talkback (yeah, I know) Q & A I was monitoring for our client, a reasonably straight-up sounding woman got on to ask something relevant about potholes. All of a sudden she veered into, ” And what are you going to do about those Meeowyri birds that poop on my path?” “Er, um…” Big mistake that pause; she was off: “Them Meeowyri birds that poop. All over my path, all over my driveway, every day. I clean it up every day and still they don’t stop…”.[you get the picture. Talkback host and client apparently laughing so hard with the mikes off they can’t hit the mute for 20 seconds or so].
Anyway fluoridation always brought out the "don't look in their eyes" brigade, as well as some reasonable people with sincere beliefs. Meeowyri birds to the power of ten.That's why I won't go there.
What a digression .. from Shearer to Meeowyri birds. Threadjack guilty.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
My kids bloom in an integrated school (Steiner), whereas I know others who find their feet in an orthodox state high school or expensive private schools.
I know others that have flourished at Steiner but I'd still add it to the expensive schools, Shame it cannot be funded like a public school.
I do agree choice isn't "loony" and thoroughly support that too.I Suspect a lot of difficulty for the Greens to gain widespread support is because there a many people trying to make ends meet and although possibly ignorant, still cant see the wood for the trees. That's why I'd love the Greens to work with Labour and both parties concentrate on their strong parts. -
BenWilson, in reply to
When it comes to GMO’s, I am not convinced either way. What I want is the choice to avoid GMO’s in the food chain until their safety is proven. Is that so loony? Sounds if anything libertarian and freedom-like to me.
Not to me. Libertarian and freedom-like is to say you can just avoid buying it if you really have a problem with it, just like is the case with, say, inorganic pesticides, or the monocultural end-results of selective breeding like dominant our shelves already.
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Jane Clifton speculates about caucus factional aspects of Labour's leaderhip contest.
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Hebe, in reply to
Re Steiner and expensive schools: The Steiner schools up north are expensive. The Christchurch (integrated) school is $37 a week for two over-fives.
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Stephen Judd, in reply to
Jane Clifton speculates about caucus factional aspects of Labour’s leaderhip contest.
Clifton, Garner, Armstrong, Trevett, all that crew: they're paid to be entertaining and have opinions, not to be right.
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Hebe, in reply to
Clifton, Garner, Armstrong, Trevett, all that crew: they’re paid to be entertaining and have opinions, not to be right.
And they listen to each other too much.
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Lilith __, in reply to
Libertarian and freedom-like is to say you can just avoid buying it if you really have a problem with it
I don't mind eating GMOs (I figure they can't be worse than all the artificial additives in processed food), but I would rather they aren't hurting the environment. This debate's been had here before and I'm not keen to reopen it, but my concern is ecological rather than personal.
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Henry Barnard, in reply to
Jane Clifton speculates about caucus factional aspects of Labour’s leaderhip contest.
Gordon Campbell discusses the `divisions' and, does a much better job of it. He also highlights the critical issue of the relationship with the Greens.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Re Steiner and expensive schools: The Steiner schools up north are expensive. The Christchurch (integrated) school is $37 a week for two over-fives.
Shit!
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Hebe, in reply to
? A lot or little?
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Oh, my friend was forking out thousands.IIRC. His kids have loved their education there too.I think your fees are very reasonable.
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Sacha, in reply to
they're paid to be entertaining and have opinions, not to be right
totally agree
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Hebe, in reply to
So do I. We have looked into moving to Auckland for work reasons but found the far greater cost of housing near the schools and the fees for Steiner up there more than cancelled out the extra earning potential. I rather liked the idea of Titirangi and further west. Huia liked the idea of living in Huia Road at Huia.
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BenWilson, in reply to
I don’t mind eating GMOs (I figure they can’t be worse than all the artificial additives in processed food), but I would rather they aren’t hurting the environment.
Which not a Libertarian position, is pretty much what I'm saying. They seldom consider externalities.
This debate’s been had here before and I’m not keen to reopen it, but my concern is ecological rather than personal.
Yup, it's not the time or place.
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Sacha, in reply to
Gordon Campbell discusses the `divisions' and, does a much better job of it. He also highlights the critical issue of the relationship with the Greens.
Thanks. A great article. This kind of touches on what I was saying upthread about indulgent behaviour:
It is Shearer’s dismal legacy that the probable high point of his tenure as Leader of the Opposition came from confronting one of his own colleagues, rather than confronting the government.
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But for Labour, there are no risk free options – and if its caucus is so blind as to prefer losing the next election in order to spite David Cunliffe, then it will deserve all it gets.
Unfortunately we all have an interest in seeing such childish petulance cease right now. No more pissing around.
I'd also like to see the next Labour leader firmly punish anyone like Shane Jones who slags his party's natural coalition partner - or at least be honest enough to back him explicitly if that's what they also believe.
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Henry Barnard, in reply to
I’d also like to see the next Labour leader firmly punish anyone like Shane Jones who slags his party’s natural coalition partner
Exactly. Gordon has it right: Shearer only showed some spirit when dealing with a supposed `challenge' (largely manufactured) from Cunliffe, an easy target given the dynamics of caucus at that time. If he was going to confront any of his colleagues it should have been with the likes of Shane Jones. Let us hope that whoever is the new leader shows a bit more gumption.
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Chris Waugh, in reply to
I’d also like to see the next Labour leader firmly punish anyone like Shane Jones who slags his party’s natural coalition partner
I think that's what Campbell was getting at here:
One way the new leader has to signal a break with Labour’s dithering recent past will be reflected in how it engages with the Greens in general and Russel Norman in particular.
Well, yes. And Mana and the Maori Party, too. In fact, I would quite like to see those four parties sitting down for a few cups of tea next election season, they seem to bring a lot of potential complementarity. But yes, Labour certainly needs to ditch some of its old attitudes to the other three.
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Hebe, in reply to
Peace :-)
That Gordon Campbell piece is very good IMHO.
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Just enjoyed a blast from the past, looking back to when Shearer got selected. It's a dramatic thread, with multiple flounces, earnest discussion, communal self-appraisal, lurkers drawn in. Classic PAS, made me feel almost 2 years younger, like an angry 39-year-old rather than the wise old 40 something I am now.
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Samuel Scott, in reply to
I can’t comment on his tree chopping abilities
He has been known to help out with the xmas tree sales at the Aro Valley Community Centre.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
I’d also like to see the next Labour leader firmly punish anyone like Shane Jones who slags his party’s natural coalition partner – or at least be honest enough to back him explicitly if that’s what they also believe.
Well, yes... but while I hate defending Shane Jones, you think Goff and Shearer didn't know exactly what he was doing? For the sake of argument, I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with Labour having strongly held policy difference with the Greens, Maori and Mana and vice versa. But, as you say, don't be passive-aggressive about it, and don't expect people who've been pissed on in eye-wateringly offensive terms by the likes of Jones to just "get over it" at your political convenience. (Again, I'm pretty sure Clark was smiling through gritted teeth when she publicly buried the hatchet with Jim Anderton. But when it was done, it stayed done and I think it would be fair to say she wasn't the only one who maintained pretty impressive self-control for longer than anyone was expecting.)
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