Members of the public could earn cash by monitoring commercial CCTV cameras in their own home, in a scheme planned to begin next month.

[[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8293784.stm|Public to monitor CCTV from home…

What the fuck is going on with the men in Canterbury? Seriously.

i've heard churtown called the whitest city in the world where even the maoris are white...

...gene pool is too shallow i reckon. too much keeping the bloodlines pure except for ngai tahu of course :)

The relationship between Police & Prostitutes is at an all time high, despite Constable Connolly.

Christchurch is one of the safest Cities in NZ. As long as you're not engaged…

Well, all of those and a bit of hope of course.

Or perhaps…

Would having more, and better resourced, cops on the beat be a more effective use of the massive amounts of money that are poured into maintaining and monitoring CCTV cameras?

That's a difficult question. When you think about how many cameras you can put up for 24/7, with recording, compared…

i've always thought it'd be better if all city cameras were open access. let the public watch themselves and be all narky vigilant on the crime buzz...

The fear of crime can, taken overall, have a more debilitating effect on quality of life than overall than crime itself, and affect more people, create more adverse effects.

If you are afraid of being mugged and never go out your quality of life is affected. If there are fewer…

Breaking the law is a personal choice we all have but breaking it when someone else could end up wearing the punishment is a different kettle of fish...

...about as lame as you be our case law guinea pig Russell and I'll stay hidden behind my oh-so-rebellious persona

no one…

The fear of crime can, taken overall, have a more debilitating effect on quality of life than overall than crime itself, and affect more people, create more adverse effects.

I agree. Too many people in our community suffer needlessly from the fear of crime, just because of the actions of…

At a cost of £8.5 million, Nexus have installed the UK’s largest and most complex digital
colour CCTV system which provides continuous monitoring and recording at Metro and
bus stations all day and every day.

Ref

A Home Office spokeswoman said CCTVs "help communities feel safer".

Oh... that's OK then. Appearance trumps reality, again.

It isn't quite that simple. I used to work in the London Borough of Southwark, and one of our targets was to cut both crime and the fear of crime.

The fear…

Agreed, but it's often easier to change the software than the wetware ;)

Indeed. Although usually changing the software forces a wetware upgrade across all installations. Helpdesks notice this.

they're doing it so you should too Russell, c'mon how lame is that for an argument, about as lame as you be our case law guinea pig Russell and I'll stay hidden behind my oh-so-rebellious persona

This.

But the funny thing is, according to a Metropolitan Police internal report released earlier this year they're fuck all use in actually clearing crimes.

Too right. There's just no substitute for cops on the beat – CCTV should be supplementary to cops, not an outright replacement for them. Some people…

sometimes it's better to have fewer features, and just teach users to use them properly.

Agreed, but it's often easier to change the software than the wetware ;)

I actually only got the ability to close a thread with the recent upgrade — it's amazing we've got this far without really desperately needing it.

I guess you've had the ability to delete accounts forever, though? That fist in the glove has been enough, along with warnings, to do…

Can you temporarily close it? Or turn full moderation on? Interested in the options available, I know this site is custom , baby.

I actually only got the ability to close a thread with the recent upgrade — it's amazing we've got this far without really desperately needing it.

Bring back Harry!

Chris Harris that is...not Prince Harry...to Afghanistan.

I'm not going to be comfortable being offline and travelling and not able to keep an eye on it.

Can you temporarily close it? Or turn full moderation on? Interested in the options available, I know this site is custom , baby.

It's not up to you, is it?

Of course not. I'm not challenging your authority. I am commenting on the effectiveness of such an action in contrast to the specifications of the order and the avenues left open. I'm looking forward to the show Russell. Take it easy.

Whether you agree with the law is not the point – no-one has the right to break the law on behalf of…

This is interesting. Can't really see much of a motive for doing that.

It's not up to you, is it?

I'm not going to be comfortable being offline and travelling and not able to keep an eye on it. I think the reasons for that discomfort should be obvious, and…

I'm actually going to close off the thread before I go to Wellington tomorrow.

This is interesting. Can't really see much of a motive for doing that.

6 months since facebook
7 months since youtube

re: the mounting swathes of shit on offshore sites about this guy, maybe the NZ…

I was aware of them whilst there and I guess it is a protection even though I found them annoying because you know they are monitoring them all the time.

But the funny thing is, according to a Metropolitan Police internal report released earlier this year they're fuck all use…

and so one might, concievably, be so cowed that one admits to a lesser something, which one may or may not have done.

I'm sure an unsavoury incident took place, presumably roughly commensurate with the eventual charge. It sounds like a horrible drunken mess, although I think you can see…

hate the playa not the game ?

Don't you just love it when A. Nonymous takes a "do what I say, don't say what I do" approach to transparency, accountability and personal responsibility?

A chain email flouting the name suppression of an entertainer facing sex charges may force a test case for the courts, law experts say...

"We just named him ... Sort it out John Key, even you wanted to know. It is a basic right. A criminal should own up to…

The charge to which the entertainer pleaded guilty was not the original charge laid --…

I ponder.....values and priorities.

Absolutely!

Another wrong decision by the state, Sofie. It's a sad tack to take. More people will die because of this, Power prices are already over the top. They sure picked the time to fling this one through...again.

I'm sure I've mentioned…

...just trying to live up to the hype is all :p

safety catch is on

Sure wasn't last night though was it – and the continued blustering from both of you today has been unattractive to say the least. You can dislike the law as much as you like but that gives you no right to risk another person's livelihood or…

the thing with making this site a test case as opposed to others is. we're not…

Why would the justice system place so much responsibility in Russell's hands?

Please just accept that it does, and behave accordingly as has been asked.

Easy Sacha, safety catch is on. I will abide by the law, but I don't accept that, I want it changed because it's bullshit. How…

Some people on this thread appear to think that because the extent to which name suppression laws apply to the internet is uncertain, it's time for PAS to be the test case.

Anyone who really desperately wants to see a test case can have their own site up and running…

Imagine the excitement of not knowing whether you'll be ignored, fined or jailed.

I can rid you of some of the excitement – the maximum penalty for breach of a suppression order is a fine of $1000. You can't be jailed.

Lawyers here can probably elaborate or point to suitable references.

Worms. Can of.

Some people on this thread appear to think that because the extent to which name suppression laws apply to the internet is uncertain, it's time for PAS to be the test case.

My advice to anyone who…

telling people where not to get their information

So that was my blissful mistake.

Well, it started as a little post saying "Hey! We're discussing name suppression on Media7 this week!" ...

I guess you're testing now in a slightly safer environment what you can get away with on TV? If you get a call from a judge, then you know to pull back…

Soz Russ. Gotta say, this is a stink subject to not-discuss.

No worries. Looking at where some of those suggested searches led, I might have been a little too cautious anyway.

Why'd you bring it up in the first place?

Well, it started as a little post saying "Hey! We're…

Yet if you post it on a NZ based site it’s the owner who gets prosecuted (and the offending person gets away with it?)

I think the offending person can also be prosecuted.

Yet if you post it on a NZ based site it’s the owner who gets prosecuted (and the offending person gets away with it?)

Our intellectual property and reputation protection laws are unhelpful. We seem to lack fair use or safe harbour provisions that other countries have. Lawyers here can…

But if I suggest going to Google, and searching on "entertainer"

I have just smashed my Scott Joplin collection in protest.

Not a lawyer, but I understand that any NZ citizen can still be prosecuted for individually breaching the suppression order by posting on overseas-hosted sites and services, even though getting stuff removed or blocked may be unsuccessful.

Yet if you post it on a NZ based site it’s the owner…

IANAL, don't know if this disclaimer is sufficient, at all, but I don't have any clue who you are all talking about . But if I suggest going to Google, and searching on "entertainer", isn't it almost certain that pretty much any site…

Why would the justice system place so much responsibility in Russell's hands?

Please just accept that it does, and behave accordingly as has been asked.

What are the rules around this kind of info getting put up on the likes of Twitter and Facebook?

Not a lawyer, but I understand…

is it a breach of a suppression order to link to another site where the suppression order is breached?

I'm not certain about the first bit but I suspect that the order could still remain in place and viable as a crime even if it was "common knowledge"

As for…

NZ justice system taking on international social networking sites would be interesting viewing

They'd just lose and blame the ref, wouldn't they?

NZ justice system taking on international social networking sites would be interesting viewing

Really, that’s the usual outcome? I’d argue that that is wrong as well then. What do you think of the Law Commission recommendations? Do you think many of those cases, and the one we’re discussing here, would meet the higher “exceptional” standard?

I'll be clearer on what I think after…

You still do it personally? How quaint. Why not simply summon the help?

I have my robots do it, silly.

I just hide my fleet of cars and expensive art collection when you come around, Craig.

You still do it personally? How quaint. Why not simply summon the help?

It's evident that they will be treated differently. The bus driver will go to work the next day. He won't be all over the papers and high up in the TV news.

I think that difference, though, is the price of celebrity. It’s a symbiotic relationship. Unless a performer, for…

That requires a lot of trust on one side, and a hardly onerous degree of self-discipline and respect for the person who isn't exactly getting rich from providing the forum on the other.

I just hide my fleet of cars and expensive art collection when you come around, Craig.

I can't recall the exact wording, but if the courts decide you're trying to lead someone to a suppressed name without actually saying it, it's a breach.

He’s not really publishing rogue comments IMO.

Well... I think Russell made a call that there certain comments on this thread that were edging towards breeching a suppression order and he wanted to nip that crap in the bud.

But, look, I think Russell wants PAS to be a place…

In some territories, yes, there are safe harbour provisions. In New Zealand, no: I'm the publisher. It does suck.

that doesnt suck, that blows...hard!!!...so would you fancy a law change to make it otherwise ?

sure in hindsight i broke your rules and i'm sorry bout that but did i…

I asked the question about sites having a case brought against largely out of self-interest as an owner of a site. I was in no way belittling the concern, and certainly wasn’t suggesting PAS should be a test case.

Didn't mean to criticise your question, but was miffed that others…

surely a disclaimer saying the views represented in the discussions do not neccessarily represent those of the owners of this site would be cover russells arse...yeah ?

In some territories, yes, there are safe harbour provisions. In New Zealand, no: I'm the publisher. It does suck.

surely a disclaimer saying the views represented in the discussions do…

I know its your gaff and all so its your rules but is this not also a public place where people can say whatever and you cant be held responsible for that ?

IANAL, but: actually, no it's not. Russell hosts the site and is responsible for the content.

Perhaps…

(I’m operating off defamation tests here but guessing the test re contempt might be similar).

I asked the question about sites having a case brought against largely out of self-interest as an owner of a site. I was in no way belittling the concern, and certainly wasn’t suggesting PAS should be a test case.

But I…

Yup — and some of the recommendations in it regarding enforcement on the internet are unclear to the point of being alarming. Going to ISPs and hosting companies with takedown orders isn't a good thing, because they have no interest in defending publishers.

so when you say i clearly dont…

Comments like this always strike me as really, really short sighted. It doesn’t matter how much “generation 2.0 don’t give a shit”- the law…

Scrutiny of internet commentary around court activity certainly seems to be at a high right now – wasn't the MoJ or someone specifically looking at Kiwiblog and Trademe for breaching standards around presumed innocence a few months back?

When Sam Morgan was still running Trade Me he actually got a…

If you could test this theory out elsewhere, that'd be great.

dont get out much huh kyle ?

what doesnt kill you makes you stronger. if PAS did get made a test case, i'm sure it would rise from the ashes wayyy more potent.

Thanks, Fred. Why don't you start your own blog and get your Nietzsche on there? I guess that would more "potency" than being a…

old skool rules/laws governing mainstream media dont apply online in much the same way copyright laws aren't respected. Generation 2.0 really dont give a shit eh...

If you could test this theory out elsewhere, that'd be great.

what doesnt kill you makes you stronger. if PAS did get made a test case, i'm sure it would rise from the ashes wayyy more potent.

hah...you do real life you…

Scrutiny of internet commentary around court activity certainly seems to be at a high right now – wasn't the MoJ or someone specifically looking at Kiwiblog and Trademe for breaching standards around presumed innocence a few months back?
And the Law Commission has just put out a paper on suppression…

...grow a pair and put up or shut up, i'm always fond of saying and if i was russell i'd be pushing shit to the limit:)

WTF? It's really easy to be brave (or stupid) with other people's reputations and livelihoods isn't it? Seriously, mate, QFT (and I don't mean…

his G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-Gerard roofing ad

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand earworm of the day. (I'm giving you the proverbial mad props, Joe, for writing the correct number of Gs.)

...grow a pair and put up or shut up, i'm always fond of saying and if i was russell i'd be pushing shit to the limit:)

And that's such an easy thing to say when you're not me.

I take a light hand to moderation here and I put up…

Not defending people dropping hints etc...

But has there ever been a case in NZ where a site has had a case brought against it because of comments left by people unconnected to the site?

No, but there's always a first time. And it behoves me to stay clearly on…

But has there ever been a case in NZ where a site has had a case brought against it because of comments left by people unconnected to the site?

dunno but it's fairly obvious this isnt going to be the first site to test those waters but it will surely…

But has there ever been a case in NZ where a site has had a case brought against it because of comments left by people unconnected to the site?

I can't recall one, but Russell's only defence in such a case would be to prove that he's genuinely attempted to…

I'm desperately trying to think of a joke about John Rowles that wouldn't be in horribly poor taste.

You're right, the few I can recall are shockers. At a Vidcom xmas party back in the day there was a particularly memorable mashup video of his G-G-G-G-G-G-G-G-Gerard roofing ad. The legend…

shit !!! when you put it like that...my bad. I thought it's no more than what's available out there.

All I can say is, I'm glad it can't have been Sir Howard.

But has there ever been a case in NZ where a site has had a case brought against it because of comments left by people unconnected to the site?

LegBreak: First, I don't think Russell wants to add "defendant in precedent-setting test case, and case study in all the best…

I think that's true Craig, but it's worse if you go to other alternatives –

Arguably, and I guess that's why my views on name suppression and other exercises of judicial discretion are... shall we say, a lot more nuanced than they used to be. But I still strongly believe…

But has there ever been a case in NZ where a site has had a case brought against it because of comments left by people unconnected to the site?

my bad

I think it's just the size of that industry, and hey, maybe people wouldn't have put it together but anyone with an inkling would likely have had it confirmed.

(Just because I feel like we don't talk about John Rowles – the man, the myth, the legend – enough around here.)

Yeah, you've just described his style of music, what he does, his racial background and the types of people that supported him. In an absolutely tiny industry – I do know who this guy is, but still, you've narrowed it to literally a couple of people

shit !!! when you…

Self-edited – like that joke but probably didn't gel here... =)

Glad I was here to witness its brief life.

Clearly you don't know the law on suppression, but the courts take a dim view of people thinking they're clever by seeding little crumbs of information. And it's my ass on the line.

Given that I've already made this clear, I think I'm justified in being pissed…

i hope you're not referring to mine cos unless you know then it's not even close to being obvious

Yeah, you've just described his style of music, what he does, his racial background and the types of people that supported him. In an absolutely tiny industry – I do know…

By comparison, the Dr who admitted mutual fondling of genitals with a 16yr old babysitter & then continued an e-affair 15yrs later. Subsequently agreed to pay $50K in compensation, but didn't cause she went to the media.
Has name suppession currently and still maintains he "did not have sexual relations with…

That's what I thought. We can now officially rule out John Rowles and Hayley Westenra.

I don't know... that Westenra always looked to me like the kind of boozy tart who'd end up getting her cock sucked in an alley somewhere...

Wow, a couple of comments here are really running close to the "clever game to identify him" aren't they?

That's what I thought. We can now officially rule out John Rowles and Hayley Westenra.

I do wish people would stop implying it's a good career move.

Doesn't seem like it's necessarily a bad one either, though. If that's the demographic buying the music, then they might love it.

Is it public? Just air it. What's the big deal?

I'm not sure it is public, and I was told privately. I'd rather the father broached it.

...shoulda grown a pair last week and trotted out your well formed opinion then

Thanks for your opinion.

i mean wheres the proof that him being outed would affect his international marketability?

That would have been in the evidence presented to the judges who subsequently granted the orders.

didnt do…

with additional info about the plea that I was aware of and would like to see aired, but don't feel able to do so myself.

Is it public? Just air it. What's the big deal?

Interestingly, though, different judges granted the interim and permanent suppression orders — David Harvey and…

His early plea, etc, as you said, would have pleased the judge though

I talked about the case to Wammo this morning and the victim's father called him afterwards with additional info about the plea that I was aware of and would like to see aired, but don't feel able…

There are some awesome offences still on the books

The offence of bestiality is complete upon penetration. The Crown always forgets that.

ramped up name suppression as an issue

You know who always gets name suppression no matter what every single time? Doctors. The first time I had to write…

Now those we elect are in a different category and I would say yes, but only wrt their public behaviour unless they are indulging in major hypocrisy.

So, we have a double standard for entertainers and politicians? If you're going to run that rationale for panty-sniffing — and many will…

I remember, after equestrian hero Mark Todd was set up and snapped with a rent boy and some charlie by the Daily Mirror in 2000, the NZ Herald went ballistic in an editorial preposterously headlined…

Says who? maybe, just maybe if they are children's entertainers but for general/adult people not so much. I say that is something many people in the public eye would dispute.

Yeah, fair call. Considering the audience to which our entertainer would be mainly exposed*, and his reported connections with charities,…

I was pretty appalled when the Star Times wheeled out Louise Nicholas to comment on the basis of her experience of name suppression. She and others were abused and controlled for years by powerful men (whose names were suppressed only to avoid prejudicing trials)

I'm still trying to wrap my…

Aren't they also meant to be positive role models, or somesuch?

Says who? maybe, just maybe if they are children's entertainers but for general/adult people not so much. I say that is something many people in the public eye would dispute. Now those we elect are in a…

Perhaps that's not so easy to do if you're a 16 year old girl who has realised that she's in way over her head with someone she's a bit in awe of and twenty years older?

I've been tremendously disappointed to hear whispers of the old victim blaming in this…

I'm in two minds about all this. Make that three.

I think all three of your minds are perfectly rational. It's not a simple matter.

As for celebrities, there's certainly a public perception they get a better deal. And perhaps they do – if only because they can usually afford decent legal representation.

It's funny; that was the default assumption about Mikey Havoc and parking tickets recently, but he appears to have negotiated with the…

The Law Commission is of the view that the lower courts are inconsistent as to when they grant suppression orders, and I find it hard to argue with that finding.

So until that changes, we should respect the Judges finding. This public opinion court of 'news to report however we…

As for celebrities,…

let's bring back duelling!

Steven Price had an interesting piece on that...

>Was it 'the entertainer' or the judge who made a gagging order?

The judge of course. Defendants don't get to make orders, and even if they did they certainly wouldn't have the strength of law behind them.

I think quentin was actually making a crude pun.

But you did oblige me to personally defend myself.

Ooh, as long as we're marching to bring back belting the kids... let's bring back duelling!

Sir, you have obliged me to demand satisfaction.

(like Steve Barnes, I just want to bring threads together).

Was it 'the entertainer' or the judge who made a gagging order?

The judge of course. Defendants don't get to make orders, and even if they did they certainly wouldn't have the strength of law behind them.

I do, however, wonder whether this case would ever have got to court if there hadn’t been a “well known entertainer” involved.

Probably, given that he admitted he was guilty and there was more than one witness – both things that most cases involving sexual offending don't have, and part…

Someone should remind me not to tangle swords with an accomplished wordsmith such as yourself. I do have a different viewpoint to yours and wish I was better able to express it.

Fair enough. But you did oblige me to personally defend myself.

IMO John Key breached the suppression order as he announced that he came to know the identity of the "mystery" celebrity through unofficial channels (as well as the "channel" is in breach of course).

Not meaning to pick on anyone in particular, but the lack of understanding about what exactly…

No – my position is that "celebrities" should wear the same consequences for their actions regardless of whether they are celebrities.

It seems blatantly obvious to me that there is no way that celebrities wear the same consequences when the media get involved. So who gets to decide whether the…

Your position seems to amount to the idea that "celebrities" should wear heavier consequences for their actions simply because they are celebrities.

No – my position is that "celebrities" should wear the same consequences for their actions regardless of whether they are celebrities.

You, on the other hand, took such…

However I was attempting to make a valid point and that point is that you appeared to be trivialising the act that occurred by saying that he was drunk, that he didn't know what he was doing, that he didn't think hard enough, that it really wasn't that big of…

If the dude is an entertainer, then what more do they need to do than entertain

Aren't they also meant to be positive role models, or somesuch?

Would one get busted for weariing such a garment in public?

After his falling out with law, Not all of us stopped buying Michael Jackson's stuff.

The slight difference I see there is that Mr Jackson was perceived as an established fruit-loop long before he fell out with the law. Therefore the shock value (and subsequent damage to his career) when…

Can't imagine it would ruin his life more than all this speculation and the guys coming up after gigs and giving him shit for being the artist formerly known as---

His lawyer will have offered evidence to the judge that conviction and publication would cause him damage out of proportion…

Most celebrities actually make money from being known by a wide number of people-

After his falling out with law, we didn't all of stop buying Michael Jackson's stuff. Neither did we forget him.

Say it were to ruin his life, the thing that concerns me are those 'aspiring entertainers'…

However I was attempting to make a valid point and that point is that you appeared to be trivialising the act that occurred by saying that he was drunk, that he didn't know…

But the offence with which he was eventually charged took place in the course of about 10 seconds. If, indeed, it was to ruin the rest of his life, that would be quite a punishment.

different if he was a teacher though aye.

Well, he didn't think about it, clearly.…

For a start, a man died. You're running the risk of trivialising that by even making the comparison.

getting totally the wrong end of the stick

I'll avoid channeling Finbarr Saunders at this point.

Ask the family of the old indian fella that was knocked off in a road rage incident if they agree with you that what people do with a rush of blood to the head should not have any bearing on the rest of a persons life.

I'm going to guess…

But the offence with which he was eventually charged took place in the course of about 10 seconds. If, indeed, it was to ruin the rest of his life, that would be quite a punishment.

Russell – I find this line of reasoning to be off the planet. Ask the…

There might be circumstances that I’m not aware of that make his behaviour more sinister than its appears to be. On what’s been reported though, name suppression seems justified for what appears to me to be a grotty but not particularly criminal act.

I tend to agree.

The two situations just aren't comparable, any more than it would be comparable to start publishing the names of children who go through the youth court just because we do so for adults. Context matters in a fundamental way.

Different rule for children, sure. Not convinced about different rule for…

I think he acted like a sleazy drunk, but usually, if you tell a sleazy drunk to fuck off, they…

@Steve

But not a celebrity? Why not? Why should they be treated differently to someone who did the same thing who was, say, a bus driver?

It's evident that they will be treated differently. The bus driver will go to work the…

But not a celebrity? Why not? Why should they be treated differently to someone who did the same thing who was, say, a bus driver?

If a bus driver is convicted of a minor offence, his passengers aren't going to connect a three line story in the court pages with…

And, finally: A DISCUSSION ABOUT NAME SUPPRESSION IS NOT AN INVITATION OR EXCUSE TO BREACH SUCH SUPPRESSION. IF YOU VALUE THIS WEBSITE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT BREACH AN ORDER OR TRY AND BE CLEVER IN A WAY THAT MIGHT LEAD TO A NAME BEING DISCOVERED.

But I really want…

paid reparations

Has he? I’d heard that he still hadn’t paid.

If a leading moral campaigner is convicted of a reasonably serious offence then that's something that the public have a right to know about. The same is also true of those who seek public office

But not a celebrity?…

Because getting consensual blowjobs in alleyways is the norm.
Not yet, but I'm willing to put my body on the line to make it so.

Otherwise where's the incentive to be a well known entertainer?

What they didn't put in their article:

"And the Herald is helping to grow that gossip grapevine by piling on the manure."

It seems to me that what The Herald is doing is a more disingenuous attempt to have it both ways. The "gossip grapevine" is a very very bad…

It gets worse in the Video where they have cleverly censored the name of the entertainer with a blank screen and the words SUPPRESSED!

I suppose if someone said "why don't you go away and find a real story to report instead of standing around asking random strangers what they…

I despair.

There are some awesome offences still on the books – denying or impugning the validity of a marriage is among my favourites.

Go on, Graeme. Do a post on your top 10 anachronisms still on the NZ statutes. A little ridicule goes a long way.

The gossip grapevine is circumventing name suppression laws surrounding a prominent New Zealand entertainer's indecency charge, according to a sample of the public spoken to by nzherald.co.nz today.

What they didn't put in their article:

"And the Herald is helping to grow that gossip grapevine by…

illiterate.

literate...

Oh lord. Now the Herald has thrown it to Your Views and vox pops.

Do they always pre-screen Your Views then? Someone on Albert St is very busy redacting at the moment I imagine.

And we have to remember, "celebrity" doesn't always equal wealth/priviledge/a-good-thing. There would be plenty of people…

Oh lord. Now the Herald has thrown it to Your Views and vox pops.

I can't wait for them to start soliciting jokes about it on Sideswipe.

Oh lord. Now the Herald has thrown it to Your Views and vox pops.

McCoskrie and McVicar are probably already in make-up.

If it helps – I still have no idea who it is.

Same. The fact that oral transmission of this information is fine, could be read as discrimination against the deaf and illiterate.

If Key hasn't breached the order he sure has shown a heap of contempt for the court.