US fudging of climate science – details revealed

Fake fights are not helping climate science

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By all means, let’s agree to disagree on our faith in the review process…

Russell:

The reporting thing is bang on. It is strange to see pseudo-balanced reporting of what in some cases is quite an unbalanced process. The uncertainty it creates is perplexing to say the least.

But…

it's a blinking conspiracy by the economists...

Although I suspect that economists believe they are practicing a science – they even get a nobel for it!

and the nobel prize for voodooism masquerading as rationality goes to!! political science economics!

Although I suspect that economists believe they are practicing a science – they even get a nobel for it!

cheers
Bart

yeah definitely. as reece said, you gots to start somewhere, and i'd hazard to say a shakey primary reading of a journal article is likely to still be less misinformed than relying on secondary msm readings, which step even further over the…

without wanting to labour a…

81st asked

Nonetheless I am confused when you say science “is what it is”.

That isn't what I said, I said reading science is…

without some understanding of methodology (and it doesn't have to be that advanced),…

After all, learning has to start somewhere, we're not all born genii.

Nor am I, think sometimes the learning I did came at the expense of valuable skills in social etiquette and diplomacy ;-)

Bart:

While I agree with much of what you said regarding the influence of prior…

Not the only thing that Durkin misrepresented:

[IMG]img132.imageshack.us/img132/3378/fredsingerpp9.png[/IMG]

– Fred Singer was never the ‘Director of the National Weather Service’.

The ‘Departments’ that a number of the other sceptic contributors are supposedly affiliated to similarly don’t exist….

He appears to have been the founding…

To suggest that folks shouldn't try because they don't have the years of training needed to understand the methods in details is just the kind of arrogance that I display (and am ashamed of) all too often.

After all, learning has to start somewhere, we're not all born genii.

In some ways saying that you can understand research without having a grasp of stats and methodology is a bit like suggesting you should just kick the tyres before buying a car. Yep you can do it, but don’t…

http://timlambert.org/2005/04/gwsbingo/

Rupert Murdoch, sacking one of his editors.

A retired professor is someone who was a professor up until the time they retired.

An emeritus professor is someone who is a retired professor AND their institution thought them so good that the…

The tobacco analogy is interesting in that the sort of…

Anytime anyone says Al Gore claims to have invented the internet I always chime in with "show me where'. So good on you for actually posting the link – the first time I've seen anyone do it.

But actually in following the link I see all Al Gore…

There used to be a time when 'Jewish Science' was discredited by those who looked at who they were rather than what they produced. The same was said about 'Negro music' Lets just give a label to unpopular views,that means what they say doesnt have to be examinedat all

So…

Seems that Wunsch is worried that all his funding will dry up and his papers wont get published

Dude, seriously? Did you even understand what you just posted up there? He's talking about the mass media picking focusing on research with a sense of showing a 'dramatic event' in order…

And From Vincent Cerf

"The Internet would not be where it is in the United States without the strong support given to it and related research areas by the Vice President in…

Well, I will be offering — I'll be offering my vision when my campaign begins. And it will be comprehensive and sweeping. And I hope that it will be compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be.

But it will emerge from my dialogue with…

Al Gore claimed to invented the internet ...

Careful. You run the risk of disqualifying yourself from the argument when you say things like that ...

There used to be a time when 'Jewish Science' was discredited by those who looked at who they were rather than what they produced.…

Always discredit the person rather than the work thats not very scientific. Richard Graydons hatchet job on Tim Ball hasnt worked either.

Oh tosh. Ball and organisations with which he is affiliated have repeatedly misstated his credentials.

The statements of defence in Ball's libel action against Dr Dan Johnson and…

But just in case my total kWh electricity use per year is about 4500, about 2% of Al Gores McMansion ( so thats where big Coal gets its profits from)

AS for Monte Heib, he might know a lot…

There's a great breakdown of some of the common climate skeptic arguments at grist:

grist.org/skeptics

Your "Plant Fossils of West Virgininia" site also contains sentences like this:

Today, at 380 ppm our atmosphere is CO2-impoverished, although environmentalists, certain political groups, and the news media would have us believe otherwise. – Monte Heib

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html

And who is Monte Heib? Former chief engineer for the West…

That's quite eerie. You're not really some guy called Mike who says things like 'I have the body of a Greek god, you know' are you?

Nope. Not Mike unfortunately. As for the body:

Apollo = not so much.

Pan(after a few nights of drinking) = definite maybe.

Is Tim Ball claiming to be a 'Professor Emeritus' or is the TV show saying it. CH4 promotional material seems to be the culprit

Richard Littlemore tries the same nonsense as you in his Desmog blog
"In a September 26, 2006 letter to…

The Story

i) The scientist and the science cannot be separated. Polanyi’s still influential work points out that the scientists are informed by tacit knowledge which determines the scientific questions they ask, the methods they use and the way in which data is presented.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Polanyi

My point…

I haven't read what Drudge has to say but Mediamatters takes great offence at this from NYT:

He pointed to hurricanes, an icon for Mr. Gore, who highlights the devastation of Hurricane Katrina and cites research suggesting that global warming will cause both storm frequency and deadliness to rise. Yet…

Reading the NYTs article it doesn't strike me as being either a slam dunk for the skeptics or a hatchet job on Gore. It's more a look at opinions surrounding Gore's global warming campaign.…

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/science/13gore.html

Media Matters response:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200703150012

Quite the minefield, this business of working out to whom to pay heed. Disqualifying everyone in the pay of a think-tank seems draconian, but it might clarify things.

That's quite eerie. You're not really some guy called Mike who says things like 'I have the body of a Greek god, you know' are you?

He used that line and got lucky?

Man, I'm totally off track.

Nah, it nearly lost him the whole deal. He was saved by,…

You don't have to understand every word and you don't have to read the whole paper to get an idea of the current scientific thinking in a field.

I did basically what you've outlined at the time of the great GE stoush, spent hours in the evenings reading original research,…

That's quite eerie. You're not really some guy called Mike who says things like 'I have the body of a Greek god, you know' are you?

He used that line and got lucky?

Man, I'm totally off track.

Sorry, I munged your name too – iz nut that God at the speling an poof-weeding. :) And I should be because getting someone's name right is a small but significant courtesy.

Cheers Bart, it's no biggie just something it's good to nip in the bud early :)

Past 4 on a Friday, time to knock…

As for figuring out who to trust. You know the 7 degrees of separation thing... well it also applies to experts. My guess is you are no more than 3 or 4 people away from someone who really does know the specilaist…

OK serious swindle debunking here with many links to sciencey stuff

I've noticed TV3 started touting one of their reports as DOCTOR Lillian Ng (sp). What is she a doctor of?

Dr Ng is a GP, and currently practises. Auckland University's alumni website says she has a Bachelor of Human Biology, a Master of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery, Diploma in…

Same! Although the story is quite boring. Although I guess if you told it in a fragmented, multi-narrative with unreliable narrators then it might be more interesting :/

That's quite eerie. You're not really some guy called Mike who says things like 'I have the body of a Greek god,…

And I got told off in ENGL 320 just for calling Deconstruction 'intellectual wanking'. I still bear a deep, primal loathing for Post-modernism, even though it once got me laid.

Same! Although the story is quite boring. Although I guess if you told it in a fragmented, multi-narrative with unreliable…

In another episode, the zoologist Stephen Jay Gould is asked to debunk a purported angel fossil. Homer's religious next-door neighbour is outraged. "Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling how it ends," he says. "I say there are some things we don't…

and clutch with our thoughts that primitive tail which flares behind the peacock of the heavens,—the comet.

Well, I think we should...

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/186703/evolution

Here is…

Fair question, and I take precisely no offence at it. One thing I must certainly am is a citizen and an elector in a representative democracy – and one which, by all indications, is going to see 'climate change' policy as a huge political issue in next year's general…

cheers
Bart

This reminds…

Russell you wrote

It would be kind of cool to have an adult education course offering a rough guide to key principles. With drinks afterwards, ...

You don't need to. There is a much easier way. Any time you want to know stuff from relevant…

This morning on the Scientific American editors blog a discussion of the global warming consensus.

I don't know how you feel about the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) as far as being "free of political, academic/institutional or ideological axe-grinding as humanly possible", but it really is the best summary of the data you're likely to find at the moment.

They have available [[…

The trouble for the layman is spotting the…

http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/erc/biographies/claussen.html

I have no pretensions to be any expert in any science

Then why are you offering an opinion on a scientific issue?…

So, could anyone recommend some reading on the subject that is as free of political, academic/institutional or ideological axe-grinding as humanly possible? Serious question, and serious answers would be much appreciated.

I confess, the fact that the Pew Charitable Trusts got in behind the issue had an impact on my…

Well, I'm not drawing any equivalence without seeing both (I was one of those tiresome 'mature' students who took required reading at face value, rather than regarding it as a pomo signifier that shouldn't cut into your drinking time) – just making the point that fudge isn't really anything…

I was being quite serious about one thing – I have no pretensions to be any expert in any science, and wish (with the perfection of 20/20 hindsight I'd done a lot more science and math when I had the chance.

It would be kind of cool to have an…

Ok, I'll cop to a wee bit of hyperbole – but while I think there's room for polemic and flat out nakedly biased advocacy in the documentary form, but it's equally important that the people who make it are honest with the viewer, and the viewer doesn't confuse a…

BTW, does Channel Four (the UK one) do anything but shock-docs? I'm looking forward to seeing The Prince of Wales Is A Retarded C**t Not Competent to Run A Gang-Bang In A Whorehouse, or whatever the thing is that's gotten Charles so agitated over the last week or so.

Sadly,…

So I should treat The Great Global Warming Swindle with the same extreme scepticism as a certain Oscar-winning polemic on the same subject call An Inconvenient Truth?

I honestly don't think its fair to compare the two. You can debate the claims of Gore's movie, but The Great Global Warming…

So I should treat The Great Global Warming Swindle with the same extreme scepticism as a certain Oscar-winning polemic on the same subject call An Inconvenient Truth? And at the same time, take a wee while to get my head around and reflect on a pretty complex and contentious…

"Fuck off you crazy old dyke."

And I got told off in ENGL 320 just for calling Deconstruction 'intellectual wanking'. I still bear a deep, primal loathing for Post-modernism, even though it once got me laid.

"Fuck off you crazy old dyke."
I love it. Do you have a link?

Yep. The site seems to be down but it's still there in the Google cache.

I have my misgivings about Burchill, but she was cracking in this.

How would Darwinian thinking be brought to bear on social policy?

If one accepts that the mind, our moral faculties and our very ability to socialise rely on in-built mechanisms that evolved then it makes a great deal of sense that an understanding of evolution should have a role in…

If in 20 years we discover that we could have stopped global warming and we did nothing our children will not forgive us.

Isn't the whole "we owe it to our children" thing just craven hedging?

2.

"Fuck off you crazy old dyke."

I love it. Do you have a link?…

While the RCP is definitely wrong on global warming, I wouldn't regard every idea that they have as wrong headed.

I think their ideology stems from anti-authoritarianism (hence opposition to immigration controls, internet censorship). They have a view, which I share, that western governments (especially Britain) are willing to sacrifice…

If in 20 years we discover that global warming doesn't exist or is not caused by us then by acting now we will have lost very little (a couple of percentage point lost from GDP).

Or even an increase in human knowledge as we're obliged to think harder to maintain…

writing shlock sci-fi/horror just wasn't scratching that itch ...

Keep at it. Wellington is so the kind of town where you'd sell that script.

I'm pomo intolerant. Gives me irritable brain syndrome.

I think what gets me is the way the famous pomo thinkers and their acolytes tend to regard obscurity as a virtue. And when the rest of us make the bullshit call on bad writing, we're decried as anti-intellectual.

So I have…

The mind set goes something like...
If in 20 years we discover that we…

Blimey, Che has a blog.

writing shlock sci-fi/horror just wasn't scratching that itch.

main thing to note is that the content of object dart will differ from politique substantially.

turns out that i was being rather closely monitored from within the state sector, and the best distance i can maintain…

So it takes someone who knows a…

I think their ideology stems from anti-authoritarianism (hence opposition to immigration controls, internet censorship). They have a view, which I share, that western governments (especially Britain) are willing to sacrifice…

I think maybe scientists need to do a better job explaining to the general public why they truly do believe ...

Heh As someone involved in the GE debate I can say fairly confidently that communication is only part of the answer. Some folks don't want to listen…

I should probably read to the bottom of the thread to see if any others have replied but I can't help myself.

What you've forgotten is turbulence.

Yes CO2 is heavier that Nitrogen or oxygen the major components of the atmosphere, so yes if air is completely undisturbed…

For me, 'Darwinian' in the context just made me think of some evolutionary psychology which fits more into the 'sociological wishful thinking' (or at…

That give me an idea – perhaps an elimatination diet, Russell? I mean, is it the dialectic, the poststructuralism ...

I'm pomo intolerant. Gives me irritable brain syndrome.

How would Darwinian thinking be brought to bear on social policy? Eg, it seems obvious that stepfathers would have an in-built disposition to improve their reproductive success and murder their stepchildren having impregnated their…

Do you break out in a rash when close to Stephen Franks?

That give me an idea – perhaps an elimatination diet, Russell? I mean, is it the dialectic, the poststructuralism ...

I would suggest you started by avoiding sophistry, but they put that stuff in everything these days.

DOH, I thought Tom was just being all Paul Holmesey...

*looks around, points at self*
who, me?

But does being allergic to Marxist analysis make me an anti-intellectual?

Maybe. Do you break out in a rash when close to Stephen Franks?

Oh, on the subject of weather Auckland had some wind yesterday. Where do we send the food parcels?

Thanks for your concern, Don. Yeah it's pretty bad; the leaves to be swept up at our place number literally in the thousands, but we'll struggle through, as always.

Russell Brown anti-intellectual? Surely not. Eh, readers.

No, not really. I just get antsy when people brandish Marxist analyses and I like to rile Tze Ming by making fun of people who use the word "discourse" a lot.

Actually, I'm reviewing a book called 'Speaking Truth to Power: Public Intellectuals…

The strong winds made my windscreen wiper blades really noisy on my windscreen, I was reminded of my childhood, had to pullover and sob quietly recalling the shuddering slap of tea towel on child flesh, ohhh The Horror, The Horror.

Oh damn. I have to drive somewhere soon. I'll need…

I lost my internet connection for the whole night! What if I'd had a medical emergency in that time??

a medical emergency that can only be solved using the internet implies an activity that one should not have been conducting.

My power cut during the day so when I got home last night I had to retime all the clocks. Sometimes I swear Kelburn is like a 3rd world country.

But yeah, it was terrible

I lost my internet connection for the whole night! What if I'd had a medical emergency in that time??

But yeah, it was terrible. One of our empty blue recyclying bins blew all the way to the other side of the cul de sac. I thought I was going to die.

damnit brown... no making me gaffaw at work! 2.48 is not tea/lunch break time.

But yeah, it was terrible. One of our empty blue recyclying bins blew all the way to the other side of the cul de sac. I thought I was going to die.

That noise it made as it dragged along the asphalt, you know that's not an earthquake right? So…

it is important that on big questions such as climate change scientists make an assessment of what they know at key moments when policy or other collective decisions need to be made. Today is such a time.

…

Oh, on the subject of weather Auckland had some wind yesterday. Where do we send the food parcels?

Just send up Moore Wilson, thanks.

But yeah, it was terrible. One of our empty blue recyclying bins blew all the way to the other side of the cul de sac. I…

And students studying arts at Uni should be forced to...

...date the science kids

And students studying arts at Uni should be forced to...

enrol in a degree with more purpose...

(says he with a middling BA from vuw)

I'm just curious is all.

If you mean David Hayward at SGES at Auckland Uni, then you ought to talk to his boss Willie Smith.

He can certainly string a sentence or two together himself (legs off a chair and all that). But he's Scottish, so I don't know if his sentences qualify as…

god i laughed...

mostly because you're right, and because the only scientist i never met who seems to be able to string two coherent sentences together is david hayward.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with doing light research on the internet (god knows I love the Wikipedia), but its no replacement for a solid four years spent researching the entire breadth and depth of a topic to gain a PhD and then devoting your adult life…

I may have failed to mention it to her though.

Re: Climate stuff. Wasn't there some great "idea" a while ago to pump allthe excess CO2 into the sea via giant pipelines?

Carbon dioxide dissolves in sea water

you might find that this is causing acidification of the oceans. (dunno how reliable that link is).

and russell. a man could do worse. threaten the waving of consumer guarantee act if martha doesn't arrive in one piece.

But back to the Crafts
Thanks for pimping our little project Russell.

i think martha promised she'd have your babies in return so let me know when you want her posted up ;)

Jeebus. That photo from the Great Blend and the undies in the mail were trouble enough ...

i think martha promised she'd have your babies in return so let me know when you want her posted up ;)

But CO2 will eventually fall to earth.

So we suffocate before we overheat. Unless we smoke pot. Chill, problem solved.

"The atmosphere is a mixture of different gases, and CO2 is one of the heaviest, but it does not form layers.

Up to a height of…

Here's a slightly peculiar sight to illustrate this:
http://cannabisculture.com/articles/1804.html.

Gases…

Martha, Sue and co. open their Craft 2.0 exhibition at the New Dowse on Saturday from 11am-4pm

Special K will be selling some baking by me to fundraise for Oxfam, although of course apparently I taste like diabetes.