The filming is probably from microwave cameras on the helmets of presumably the Tibetans (the only guys who will be able to multi task above 8000m.)

Given that most Chinese can't watch CNN and BBC World,

From recent experience, and per the web links I posted elsewhere, this simply isn't true anymore. The data both in the hotels, and in the publicly available information is nowhere as censored as we in the west…

End of tsarism.
Collapse of the Ottoman Empire and creation of modern Turkey.
Beginnings of the collapse of the British Empire (the war was a turning point in British economic fortunes).
Womens suffrage (partly)
Beginnings of a world system to limit conflict.

Those are pretty broad claims – both in…

They were indeed, but Weber's is also good and probably comes without all the subsidies, sponsorship and huge price tag of the festival equivalents. So worth giving them a plug.

I've seen the past three versions of the Weber's circus. It's a good circus to take the kids – jugglers,…

Oh, it's not too late to resurrect the lost tangents and shuffle the discussion back to the real issues...

Good, good.

Very partial to Len Lye myself. Recently(ish) found The cheekygirl10 Guide to Len Lye (YouTube), which I enjoy a great deal. Wonder if Trilogy is not shown because they…

Bob, I'd also thoroughly recommend Peter Hessler's Oracle Bones which I'm finishing at the moment.

Thanks Jolisa. Up to chapter 3. Completely absorbed already. It's like a good novel, richly detailed and slowly unfolding, but heading to knows where?

Bob, I'd also thoroughly recommend Peter Hessler's Oracle Bones which I'm finishing at the moment.

Echoing Simon's recommendation – Hessler's pieces for the New Yorker are always worth turning to first.…

This might cheer you up

and there's this one ...

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/20/20534_large.jpg

And Russell's piece on Homegrown was excellent, unlike the Dom Post review. But there isn't much more to say – "I'm bored with reggae" is an entirely personal attitude and not a good basis for discussion.

And what is modern depends on when you think the modern…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7370903.stm

Earlier even. "modern warfare" was largely invented by Oliver Comwell and his roundheads.

But missed the rapid fire weaponry that was available in 1864.

and without both democracy and a realisation of the horrors of modern warfare, there was little to restrain them.

I agree but I think the age of modern warfare arrived a little earlier if they had cared to look and listen.

http://english.people.com.cn/200706/25/text20070625_387289.html

It was the invention of railways (as rodgerd points out),…

The loss of monarchies all over Europe was a huge win, as was the disintegration of the Autro-Hungarian Empire.

Once again, inevitability comes into play. WW1 may have sped this up but it was going to happen and the roots of of WW2 laid. But surely the collapse of the…

The $64 thousand dollar question is how China's looming energy demands and…

i think that fascinating link of yours a few pages back touched on this, and the huge urban drift.

Some of the scales involved here make my head hurt. Bit like trying to imagine the distance to the nearest star and what's beyond that. Think I'll get down to what…

Well, the news is that China makes low and high end products – including luxury cars, iPods, plasma screen television and laptops.

And I wonder what percentage of those it actually consumes itself now. China is in a similar place to the USA in 1939 where it has a massive…

Anti government demonstrations do happen in China. As I mentioned earlier, some commentators estimate there are up to 40,000 demonstrations annually over issues such as corrupt and incompetent officials, land seizures, environmental degradation, food prices etc.

The…

But isn't that a bit like turning up in the UK during the 80s miners strike, spending most of one's time in the area of London inside the Circle Line and concluding that everything was wonderful and the strike was clearly an anti-British fabrication.

Living as I did in central…

Well there is no doubting that the current government is widely popular both inside and outside China with Chinese citizens despite western reservations

Funnily enough Gifford disputes this. It's a bit unfair on his wonderful book to summarise here but essentially he says corruption runs deep and in the rural…

The thing about China is that many New Zealanders still talk as if choosing…

nothing positive came from it.

End of tsarism.
Collapse of the Ottoman Empire and creation of modern Turkey.
Beginnings of the collapse of the British Empire (the war was a turning point in British economic fortunes).
Womens suffrage (partly)
Beginnings of a world system to limit conflict.

Arguably these would…

Also, if the government is so…

I haven’t read it but James Kynge's China Shakes the World is very highly regarded. He was interviewed by Chris Laidlaw about three weeks ago. Very interesting.

In his summary chapter at the end of China Road Gifford quotes James Kynge.

In his brilliant book, China Shakes The World, the…

Asia extends to the Mediterranean and the Urals. Since it's awkward to split bicontinental countries like Russia and Turkey, it's reasonable to put the former in Europe and the latter in Asia, based on where the majority of their population live.

Stats seem…

I think that some if not most students of Chinese ethnicity studying here are overseas Chinese from Singapore, Malaysia, etc. Plus the figure for Asian students no doubt includes Russians, Turks, Israelis and…

just a couple of suggested amendments to your figures – Asian student numbers studying in New Zealand peaked about 120,000 in 2003/2004.

But the Chinese student component of that was 55,000. Right now the numbers are down to about 30,000. Remember there are not insignificant numbers of Koreans,…

Can anyone explain to me why WW1 had to be fought?

All the European powers were fairly authoritarian imperial states ruled by small and wealthy elites (this varied between Britain, which was probably the most democratic and Russia, which was about the least. None had universal suffrage). They also had…

xenophobic

I just think that Chinese people have the same rights to democracy, free expression and national self-determination as New Zealanders. I don't see that as xenophobic. I'm interested in why and whether it seems that a lot of Chinese people (like those who marched in Wellington) appear not to…

anyone could make the same mistake...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7370903.stm

Can anyone explain to me why WW1 had to be fought?

As any fule kno: Archie Duke shot an ostrich because he was hungry.

The Indonesians are gracious people, and Australia's support for Indonesia's independence might nullify any antipathy to ANZAC Day somewhat.

Agreed, George. I might add that there is a sense of rapproachment with Australia here, after some not so good years.

I also agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment expressed by both…

- Chinese overseas students were 130,000 in 2002 and went down slightly after that. I make that 0.01% of the population, so 0.1% of the cohort would seem at least in the ballpark.

Your assumption that these are are .01% elite is the part that gets me. Sorry, but I…

Why not take on the role of the "Landing Craft" and view it from a yacht?

As luxurious or authentic as you want – no crowds to deal with…

a perhaps inappropriate, display of NZ nationalism in this country where Commonwealth forces fought for the Dutch in 1945.

The Indonesians are gracious people, and Australia's support for Indonesia's independence might nullify any antipathy to ANZAC Day somewhat.

Your observations on the oddness of the occasion are welcome. There's always…

there is also a not so subtle difference in being asked to represent your nation at a generous event of remembrance and other forms of nationalistic posturing.

Oh trust me, there was a bit of nationalistic posturing that morning too, especially when the subject of serving Australian troops came up…

I was at the Massey memorial on Saturday looking at all the wreaths. The was one from Indonesia, as well as Germany, China, Iran, Cuba and the French sailors whose ship was tied up right next to the Homegrown venues.

It's a funny world.

Don, we're hosting the Rugby World Cup in 2011 and you think we shouldn't have expressions of nationalism?

Not in China I don't.

Simon, there is also a not so subtle difference in being asked to represent your nation at a generous event of remembrance and other forms of nationalistic…

Don, we're hosting the Rugby World Cup in 2011 and you think we shouldn't have expressions of nationalism?

I found myself at an ANZAC dawn parade here on the 25th (my daughter was asked to raise the NZ flag) which was a fairly embarrassing, and perhaps inappropriate, display of NZ…

Is there any indication that foreign nationals are going to be relocated for this?

Making it hard for foreigners will hurt China. Just like the US making travelling there such an ordeal has hurt its inbound tourism, conference business, etc.

... doesn't seem positive or nearly enough to see our grandkids right. We can't just hitch and hope for the best, I strongly feel we need to observe, disseminate and in certain cases adopt, (thinking mainly economic policies)...

Yeah, I agree — hitching a ride sounds too passive. And it's…

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/world/asia/24china.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

These are not rent-a-demos – they are heartfelt expressions of nationalism.

Yeah right. In that case keep it within your own borders.

I don't buy the "evil China" for reasons many have expressed here but "expressions of nationalism" have no place on other peoples' countries. I regard it as the…

As for hitching a ride with superpowers, I'm reminded of Oscar Hammerstein's take on international relations:

If allies are strong with powers to protect me
Might they not protect me out of all I own?

Is indeed a puzzlement.

An "evil China" rant seems to be the more socially acceptable line at the moment.

Not sure I'd put myself in the "evil china" mix, but I did experience an odd mix of disquiet and disgust when watching the events in Aotea Square and seeing coverage of the Wellington march.…

ust on the last chapter of China Road: A Journey into the Future of a Rising Power by Rob Gifford, NPR's Beijing correspondent, published last year.
Russell's 'it's good, bad and ugly rolled into one' is put to the test on a road trip from Shanghai to the Kazakhstan border.…

At the moment China is…

(China has just replaced Australia as Indonesia's second third largest tourist market)

it's third..after Japan and ROK just to clarify my typo

Imagine that NZ was a lot poorer, and run as a dictatorship by ACT. Imagine that maybe 0.1% of New Zealanders could afford to go off to overseas education in a richer country.

I dunno about the provinces further west but certainly in Guangdong, you'd have a problem calling NZ…

How are your views "contrarian" Russell?

Well, amongst most of my friends and most PA readers, I would think. An "evil China" rant seems to be the more socially acceptable line at the moment.

It's not "kowtowing" or "genuflecting" or being brainwashed (as you accused Simon of being). I'm just…

Given that most Chinese can't watch CNN and BBC World,

From recent experience, and per the web links I posted elsewhere, this simply isn't true anymore. The data both in the hotels, and in the publicly available information is nowhere as censored as we in the west are led to…

Accursed globalisation, they're paying with their bums!

If we adopt American butts we all lose. After all, butting is something that only goats and drunken louts do, while I'm sure we can all get behind a good…

That wouldn't make much sense as much as we would like to think of ourselves…

The idea that China must be coddled and genuflected (if not kowtowed) to at all times is the policy of both Labour and National, which would make it a majority opinion, at least among mainstream politicians.

[Fixed it. No HTML allowed in posts, but YouTube vids embed automatically. RB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjdYZiPKwvE

He has a point.

and every album since is maybe a little bit more disapointing than the last....but in the periods between world cups one can see the Shihad Blacks devastating all in their path at stadiums up and down the country.

Damn. My simile was better than I thought!

Rich, I think that's a good point that you make. Most of the mainland Chinese students in NZ are likely to be patriotic because they are relatively privileged.

But there is also a huge amount of arguably misplaced faith in the government within China as well. There have been many…

Stupid young men don't need flags to be stupid.

However, flags are one of things more likely to bring out the stupidity.

Can't argue there. The Sydney Big Day Out on Australia Day comes to mind ...

So worth giving them a plug.

sure, but if quality isn't the comparable issue then homegrown would have better served your purpose: subsidised, commercially sponsored to the hilt, and with ticket prices around six times as much as weber.

when are the Phoenix Foundation going to record a live album?

And when will Conrad Wedde's album be released?

But there is also a huge amount of arguably misplaced faith in the government within China as well. There have been many…

..and the general electric was actually pretty good.

Consider Killjoy to be the 87 world cup. A brilliant coming of age. A gauntlet of national pride!

and every album since is maybe a little bit more disapointing than the last....but in the periods between world cups one can see the Shihad Blacks…

Imagine that NZ was a lot poorer, and run as a dictatorship by ACT. Imagine that maybe 0.1% of New Zealanders could afford to go off to overseas education in a richer country.

Wouldn't the people of this overseas student elite be mainly ACT supporters? The…

Stupid young men don't need flags to be stupid.

However, flags are one of things more likely to bring out the stupidity.

This line could fit nicely into centuries of anti-Catholic rhetoric.

look, I'm an immigrant to NZ and my "loyalties" could be to a number of countries. I would prefer my loyalty to be judged on beliefs and the sort of government/society I support (it so happens that NZ is a…

This line could fit nicely into centuries of anti-Catholic rhetoric.

should i be giving up the current job now, or would you like to have any other aspects of my past reviewed before i tender the resignation?

Surely now, just a couple of reasonable questions about your background to determine your suitability.

Are you now, or have you ever been...

to my mind their demonstrations clearly renders them unfit for a whole raft of New Zeland jobs. How could the the civil service.

tom, i was in some student protests back in the 90s.

should i be giving up the current job now, or would you like to have any…

Both were fantastic.

They were indeed, but Weber's is also good and probably comes without all the subsidies, sponsorship and huge price tag of the festival equivalents. So worth giving them a plug.

And meanwhile I'm in yr city reveiwing yr signature waterfront eventz?

i left the lounge after midnight and managed to wade through the hordes of yoof with nary a sideways glance from the more leery of them.

left me feeling like i'm still the tiniest bit 'street'.

pot-belly and greyhair…

I saw him in Auckland ten days ago. He told me he would be in Canberra to show his support for the Games. He is now based in…

And meanwhile I'm in yr city reveiwing yr signature waterfront eventz?

Using our free tickets IIRC. There were not that many to go around.

Still, we did happen by the front door during the So So Modern wrap and the atmosphere in Wellington has been great this weekend.

If you…

Does this mean that ethnic South Asians shouldn't go along and support India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan in cricket matches against the Black Caps?

Does this mean that many of the…

i was at the hawthorn lounge playing baccarat with tom beard and hadyn green.

And meanwhile I'm in yr city reveiwing yr signature waterfront eventz?

For shame.

Although we were at the Hawthorn the night before.

It included an intriguing interview with the exiled Prime Minister of Tibet. He's a very patient man:

What is the significance of the Beijing Olympics for China and Tibet?…

So, it seemed, did Trevor Mallard, who was there with his partner. He smiled a little when a pungent cloud of marijuana smoke drifted his way, and tapped his foot. Literally. Right foot, tapping. I think Labour needs some more ministers who can dance …

Definitely something in the "Labour…

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89803198

http://home.wangjianshuo.com/archives/20080423_grace_wang_called_a_traitor.htm

The thing about China is that it is not strictly true to say that protests don't happen. I think they…

Methinks if the flags were the Stars & Stripes and the chants were "USA, USA" – vocal responses in the blog world and the other media would be slightly less muted.

my thoughts were similar.

what if these crowds were saudis waving green flags and protesting their right to not be…

The irony is thick on the dancefloor and no-one really seems to be saying much about it.

Yeah. For example, that the Olympics Aren't About Politics. Which is why they see staged political rallies and flag waving...

The marchers had a right they wouldn't have in China.

Not true. In China, you can hold as many flag-waving pro-government rallies as you want. It's saying anything different that is the problem.

It's good that the organisers of the rally worked to avoid violence and protect the rights of…

"The Tibetan supporters say they won't be laying complaints with the police, choosing instead to go home and have a cup of tea and some Chinese takeaways. "

That's the kind of media reporting I…

what it was was a slightly aggressive display of chinese nationalism, in downtown wellington.

At least they didn't beat anyone up – unlike Auckland.

Careful with your long-distance "they", there, I/S.

According to the One News report, it was the march organisers who removed the man who started attacking the…

At least they didn't beat anyone up – unlike Auckland.

seems that the 90s, with all the talk about chinese human rights abuse has been forgotten.

1. we're all about "terrorism".
2. the $$ is mightier than the pen and the sword.

question, has anyone ever been to a bad shihad gig, it's amazed me that during the years that shihad (regardless of them being on or off drugs) have always delivered a sweet gig.

My favourite have been the old bodega and…

what it was was a slightly aggressive display of chinese nationalism, in downtown wellington.

At least they didn't beat anyone up – unlike Auckland.

Busted, Mr. Masked Barfly.

che <--- is not a wellingtonista. (which the barfly is).

@stephen, if only we'd known you were interested! you're on the list.

i was at the hawthorn lounge playing baccarat with tom beard and hadyn green.

Busted, Mr. Masked Barfly.

The thousands of aggressive nationalistic Chinese students in Canberra last week were fairly disturbing – and that…

I went to a play at Circa last night

i was at the hawthorn lounge playing baccarat with tom beard and hadyn green.

i let the side down somewhat by not wearing a fez or waistcoat.

Next year's festival could do with better production in the indie and electronic stages

From what I've heard the indie stage got something like the fourth or fifth best best PA (with the good equipment going to the "important" stages) – which the engineers then had a bit of hard…

Was that Chinese go home?

what it was was a slightly aggressive display of chinese nationalism, in downtown wellington.

it's always reminded me of being very drunk and trying to pee.

lots of rotating hip movements and raking streams of water.

Was that Chinese go home?