But yes, pop music for the boomers – indeed an interesting article, the Beatles/Love Me Do exploding on the scene at the same time as the Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962.

Reminds me of a compilation CD I picked up at the recent Chch Library book sale – __Songs…

Robin Hyde's China connection came up too -…

dyan – there was a film proposed on Rewi Alley after the biography came out, but it didnt attract necessary funding from the proposed script.

It's a shame the film never got off the ground, because it's a fascinating story about a NZer who should not be forgotten – but…

after the death of Chou En Lai

Zhou Enlai died on 8 January 1976.
Muldoon visited from 28 April to 5 May, and met Mao Zedong on 30 April.
Mao died on 9 September, and apparently Muldoon was the last overseas leader to meet him.
Quite a few spontaneous…

she was frightening. Captures as well as anyone the concept of militant ignorance. And there are so many people doing their best to capture it.

Militant ignorance.…

Some of you might find this an interesting read:
pop in the age of the atomic bomb.

Pop? Ka-BOOM! surely :-)

But yes, pop music for the boomers – indeed an interesting article, the Beatles/Love Me Do exploding on the scene at the same time as the Cuban Missile Crisis…

as, Joe, the couple I knew were really ambivalent towards Hillary. (They, incidentally, guested numerous Sherpas at Okarito in their home.)

And as you say, "Just more…

They're all dead now...

I spent 3 months in Nepal in 1975, arriving in early May, less than five weeks after Louise and Belinda Hillary's deaths in the plane crash of 31/3/1975. I recall a number of stories, from those locals who claimed to know, of how emotionally devastated Edmund…

And, an interesting sidelight on Edmund Hillary: he undoubtedly did an enormous amount of good among Sherpa communities, but he could be brusque & unhelpful with…

after we discovered the Chinese worshipped him.

He's still remembered. But one glaring omission from the Chinese version of his-story:

He did not distinguish between casualties, treating wounded Japanese prisoners as well as Chinese.

Mao Ze Dong neglected to mention this 'minor' inconvenient detail in his poem 纪念白求恩 'remember Bethune',…

dyan – I'd never heard of Norman Bethune before...must learn more.
You ever come across an ANZer called Rewi Alley? Also esteemed in China for his work there.

Oh, yes! Rewi Alley – I've read everything I've found about his work – what an amazing guy. He and Ed Hillary…

I got dissonance on that as well,

Different times...
I thought would have loved it growing up as I did awash in all those WW2 comics and Lion and Tiger weekly comic mags.
The reality was much more monotonous, nothing rugged and individualistic about it.
And the weapon recoil..... no…

My internal 13-year old is now screaming 'does not compute!' at me.

Hell yes, we couldn't wait to be given our brief turn on the range at Linton. We were each shown how to jam two live rounds through the holes in the feet into the ground to stop it…

Just imagine--a callow 13 year old weedy schoolboy in South Taranaki firing a machine gun with live ammunition! It generated a life-long distaste of all things military.

Wait, what? You got to shoot…

You ever come across an ANZer called Rewi Alley? Also esteemed in China for his work there.

The mood in post-WW2 NZ was very pro-military. The 1949 Labour Government's referendum on conscription resulted in 77.9% in favour. Compulsory military training was abolished by Labour in 1958, and reinstated by National in 1960.

It could not have been more different in Canada. The post war mood was buoyant,…

There must have been tens, if not hundreds of thousands of those surplus .303s floating about NZ by the 1980s. I still remember visiting gun shops in Dunedin or Christchurch in the 80s/90s where there would be heaps…

Then of course, I signed the dotted line and wore the green for a decade & more ... there was alot of fun with firearms to be had.

If I had…

I used such a .303 quite…

Amongst the useless things we were taught was how to assemble and fire a Bren gun.

We were taught Bren's, Stens and Lee Enright 303s in Palmerston North. Our cadet training extended a year beyond the abolition because our headmaster thought it good for our characters. At 16 I could…

A crap waste of money the whole of it-

It was on me for sure.
I fired one magazine (I cant remember how many rounds in a magazine)at the rifle range and had a sore shoulder for a week.
I never made it to cadet status.

1950s/60s& early 1970s with school cadets.
Which is when all* male children dressed up in army uniforms(where the hell did they get those?)

All we got were the side caps, which we gave back after we'd drilled around the school quad for 45mins. We did do weapons…

. . . there was certainly no draft in Canada, nor any generation gap to speak of, as the generation that fought in the WW2 – or Korea – in Canada tended to be as anti war as their boomer offspring.

The mood in post-WW2 NZ was very pro-military. The…

No, "the establishment" just got better at lying ( the growth in forms of positivist linguistic expression were immensely helpful to the dumb fucks)
And making minor changes around the fringes (while making a big deal about it).

Thanks Andin. Pinpointed without reserve.

and we'd got both Labour and NZ…

It was a lot more generous than the scheme over the past twenty years.

If I win lotto my first action will be to pay back my three sons' student loans:)

And if I may go back to the discussion on the baby boomers and the effect of the war…

Not when the boomers went to university, no.

Actually the changes in the mid 1970s were introduced as a reflection in the growth in participation in tertiary education that the baby boom generation caused.

The first ones through missed it, but the baby boomers born in the mid 50s caught…

It is worth remembering that Labour went into the 1996 election promising a universal student living allowance, and that its education spokespeople in the late 1990s, Steve Maharey and Trevor Mallard, constantly talked about Labour returning to a universal allowance.

My number one reason to be pissed with NZ First…

The systems don't compare too well, but NZ used to have living support which wasn't income tested.

Not when the boomers went to university, no.

Up until 1992, nearly every student (86.4 percent) studying at a public tertiary education institution in New Zealand received a living allowance or grant while they studied.

Prior to the mid 1970s, student support was based on a system of bursaries and…

When I did my BA it was 3,000 for fees and I spent five times as much to just live (and it wasn't a lavish lifestyle).

The systems don't compare too well, but NZ used to have living support which wasn't income tested. With a bursary many students got by…

Later I discovered that, like my father, he'd been taken prisoner in Crete, and forced to take part in a gruelling march over several days.

This is from waaay back – somehow missed it (busy yesterday). My father fought in Crete. So did a guy called Fred Woollams, who…

It actually cost quite a bit to attend university, mainly for books and sundry fees. I was a law student at Canterbury for 4 terms (1968/69)

It now costs anywhere between five and twelve times as much, depending on your course, in real terms.

I very much doubt it. It…

It actually cost quite a bit to attend university, mainly for books and sundry fees. I was a law student at Canterbury for 4 terms (1968/69)

It now costs anywhere between five and twelve times as much, depending on your course, in real terms. The transfer of wealth from the…

the establishment now seems to fly much lower under the radar in this more streamlined amorphous state.

No, "the establishment" just got better at lying ( the growth in forms of positivist linguistic expression were immensely helpful to the dumb fucks)
And making minor changes around the fringes (while making…

One being a dearth of jobs for women that paid anything like reasonable wages.

This is still true today, as I've found out this year. (Earlier this year, I had to place my elderly 'aunt' into a home, after she'd be living with me since 2007 due to Alzheimers).

The…

There's a comment underneath from someone with a European name based in China. My goodness, I hope they're not teaching English there.

Could Phillip Adams, who never attended university, distinguish himself today without a degree in mass communications or media studies? How about Denis Welch or Russell Brown?

Funny you should mention that. I went directly from secondary school to journalism in 1981. I must have been one of the last newspaper…

. . . far fewer Boomers than Gen-Xers got to go to university at all.

It was a time, though, when you could pretty much embark on a career simply by demonstrating a willingness to learn on the job. By the early 90s you needed a qualification to work in…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10684625

One being a dearth of jobs for women that paid anything like reasonable wages....but that was the world I grew to adulthood in-

True Islander, I'm duly chastened* by that, despite ongoing discrepancies, the increases in equality (gender/ racial/ physical/ political) are certainly something…

a dearth of jobs for women that paid anything like reasonable wages

Because the wage was oriented around the assumption that men were supporting a whole family including a woman to run the home, which is where she was meant to be. Except nuns and (until they got married and…

But choices in most other items like cars were limited.

only if you bought new, but who does that ! When there were beauties like This or my favourite
Working on these was sooo easy, no EI. And a valve grind was an…

Indeed. And there were a lot of variables way back then also. One being a dearth of jobs for women that paid anything like reasonable wages.

That's all true enough, Chris, but far fewer Boomers than Gen-Xers got to go to university at all.

Yeah, it's an interesting quandary, with the highly educated being forced to take low skilled jobs. Sir Peter and Sir Richard (amongst others) have provided meaningful employment to partially fill that void,…

However, most jobs didn't require that and houses and suchlike were far more affordable as a proportion of the average income. But choices in most other items like cars were limited. And…

Plugging on...
Bill Direen (& the Bilders) has his 'Mean Time' release gig scheduled for the Kings Arms on Sunday the 7th November at…

May I correct one thing in your post, Russell?

Not wanting to go overboard as your post was excellent Russell, but I'm going to have to get a little Yorkshireman on you here Islander.

It actually cost quite a bit to attend university, mainly for books and sundry fees. I…

Fair enough. I was thinking of an interview I did with Tim Shadbolt once where he talked about what a joy going to university had been — no pressure, few costs, you could walk onto a building site and get a job when you wanted one,…

As the pig in the python moves into the retirement phase there are real problems to be dealt with.

And again, that generation determines a focus of policy and resources – and of the inevitable associated politics (Winston, wherefore art thou).

what a joy going to university had been — no pressure, few costs, you could walk onto a building site and get a job when you wanted one, etc.

I don't think Tim did much actual university work!

And it was harder for girls I think. I went on a…

Not wrong, andin-

It was an eye-opener when I joined the Post Office…

They famously rebelled against the indulgence of their parents.

Not just that.
I look back now and laugh at how damn serious I was. It was clear back then that there were real problems in the future if we(the developed world) kept on going as we were.
Deep and fundamental…

It actually cost quite a bit to attend university, mainly for books and sundry fees. I was a law student at Canterbury for 4 terms (1968/69) but left
because I could no longer afford to pay my way

Fair enough. I was thinking of an interview I did with Tim…

It actually cost quite a bit to attend university, mainly for books and sundry fees. I was a law student at Canterbury for 4 terms (1968/69) but left
because I could no longer afford to pay my way (a large number…

Re: Boomers and our sense of entitlement – the babyboom in North America differed greatly from the generation that raised them because of the "permissive society" – a the result of paediatrician Benjamin Spock, and his child-centred philosophies.

Spock's book – not popular here, but literally on nearly every postwar…

One of the things that boomers grew up under was the Cold War & the possibility of the annihilation of *everything*...it made people look hard at their societies, and work for changes. So, you got the second wave of feminism, and…

Oh pleeeze Hilary

Dang, sorry Hilary, don't know how I managed that. Bottomless apologies.
Now, where was I?
Jeez Dyan . . .

Moxy Fruvous singer Ghian Ghomeshi

I do not like them Sam I am....

So a generation of boomers grew up in a kind of golden age of endless childhood, the most indulged, least responsible generation in history.

Umm, challenge. This is the generation that came of age in the 60s.…

So a generation of boomers grew up in a kind of golden age of endless childhood, the most indulged, least responsible generation in history.

Oh pleeeze Hilary – the reality was that, in the US or Australia, if you were male you ran a very real risk of getting your…

You are just talking about the US right?

The US and Canada.

So a generation of boomers grew up in a kind of golden age of endless childhood, the most indulged, least responsible generation in history.

You are just talking about the US right?

I'm not sure I prefer him in the end to the lugubrious Cohen, as in this best-version-ever of The Partisan from French TV, 1969

He was never lugubrious – even when he was clinically depressed (he's Jewish – depression and humour run in the same vein if you're Jewish) he…

"I want some of what Leonard Cohen's on."

Watch him make this serious journalist simper in 1966.

http://fliiby.com/file/375673/9gsqhs5bdr.html

From This Hour has Seven Days (CBC TV Canada)

Also, it probably didn't help that he was standing next to…

I thought he was great

It wasn't that he wasn't *talented*. He played lots of instruments superbly, and if I hadn't had to *look* at him cheesily mugging for the audience, it probably would have been OK. As it was, I just wanted to hurt him. With big hulk fists.

...the tenor sax was used what, three times in the whole set? I would have much sooner lost 12 String Javier.

They had an air guitarist?
It's good to know one can graduate from playing the tennis axe, in front of the wardrobe mirror, to…

Is this still the thread where one gets to gush on how great Leonard Cohen was?

I think any thread ,one should be able to gush about Leonard Cohen. The man is so many kinds of cool aid.Would be a pleasure that I could aim so high. The…

All I could think of to tweet when I got home from Thursday's show was:

"I want some of what Leonard Cohen's on."

I suspect its more about being at a time and place in your life where you've got nothing left to prove to anyone whose regard you care…

did somebody really disrespect Dino Soldo on my Internet?

He was, some intoned "un ragazzaccio". But I believe that has more than one meaning.
I dont know, I just read it here

Is this still the thread where one gets to gush on how great Leonard Cohen was? That was... brilliant. And a masterclass (not just by Cohen himself, it should be said) on how to age gracefully, nay, gloriously.

All I could think of to tweet when I got home from…

But I want to threadjack to mention the fascinating contradictions between Communications Shutdown Day that autism parent groups internationally promoted yesterday (1 November) and the reclaiming of…

That said: did somebody really disrespect Dino Soldo on my Internet?

Are you kidding??

Yes I was.
The funny thing is, like most children of any generation, the majority usually turn out like their parents.
For good or bad.
If a child/adult has a sense of entitlement it usually (imo) got it from the upbringing.
And I do…

Petra – thank you very much indeed for your comments.
I am truly appreciative. And for your distributions...and WTF! We're ANZers arnt we? So, we talk on the level of being thus-
so, please, I'm Islander-
(which is the literal…

I need a cuppa tea and a lie down!

I'm sure Russell can edit out all the rest. :)

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=Adam%20Curtis%20AND%20mediatype:movies

Wanna see me gut a fish?

Yup! :D

I had to laugh at some kids on one of those weekend fishing shows. When the reporter asked one sweet little girl what she liked most about fishing, she replied "the guts". lol

Islander, I'm a huge poetry lover, and I'm getting…

we all know poets are sensitive wee flowers

That's why we love 'em.

OK, we all know poets are sensitive wee flowers, so I'll…

One of the best docos I've ever seen, Jeremy. You should check out The Mayfair Set by the same director, as well. Enlightening...and deeply troubling.

Thanks, I will.

I don't use this term babyboomer. Although there are words to describe individuals. We is all "people" surely?

If we want to talk about groups of people rather than individuals, naming comes into it. As do generalisations.

Baby boomer is a well known one based on a demographic fact that…

It attributes the beginning of marketing to well before the second world war , to the end of the first when propaganda was simply called propaganda and not public relations.

Speaking as someone who has neither gone in for cocaine, fashion, extensive travel or total indulgence, I totally agree with your last sentence:

"But it was not without cultural influences that…

Speaking as someone who has neither gone in for cocaine, fashion, extensive travel or total indulgence, I totally agree with your last sentence:

"But it was not without cultural influences that…

No, they were definitely not saints – but they saved for things and went without to get necessities. They didn't squander as much as [some of] my gen did.

But even those that didn't…

Speaking as someone who has neither gone in for cocaine, fashion, extensive travel or total indulgence, I totally agree with your last sentence:

"But it was not without cultural influences that…

You seem to be confuting age & life experience with politics & economics.
On *very* slender grounds, I would suggest

Crosby Textor and most economists would differ.I can't see entitlement in the young uns, I see boredom and a real confusion to what we are actually trying to build here.

Are they…

at least, to squander what our parents had taught us about thrift and prudence.

Jesus, our parents sound like saints.

if you find it belittling

Qué? I love my age cos it's me! Belittling? I am not understanding you. Catch ya later. :)

What's a baby boomer?

A Babyboomer is in a different part of their life than younger folks.
This has some economic and political ramifications.

Don't fill out your age in the census if you find it belittling but it is a useful term in politics and economics.

I mean Gen…

Oh definitely, sadly I'll blame the parents

the babyboomers?

instant gratification was what was sold to us – we deserved it

– especially compared with the previous generation's parsimony informed by Depression memories. Again, a generalisation.

for 'boomers (why do I always think of kakapo??)

Birds of a feather.... so bloody predictable. Innit. :)

.So how do you act "entitled?" Is there a certain walk , a look in the eye.

Yes Jeremy, "act" like you are entitled would suggest to me that, one thinks they…

The brush is too broad. Not only in years, but as you say, Islander, culture and other demographics.

And I'm not a wealthish babyboomer because, like Dyan, I was all about the travel, and the expensive clothes, and the parties – gawd,…

It did visit my school (Hawera High) in pursuit of a scandal once but about what I do not know

something about night-time chicken slayings..

They were, and are, __marketing…

and within my very large babyboomer family&friend cohort, there is NO-ONE who takes annual holidays overseas or who is wealthy except in family & friends. So, STFU those folk who make unwarranted generalisations

Islander, I am sorry to upset you (especially you, as you have created real characters who live and breathe…

So, STFU those folk who make unwarranted generalisations.

Gen x and Gen y are deficient in economic resources compared to the next available block to compare.O.K.

I did deliberate before opting for the words "en masse". Perhaps you had to be there, but it was quite the demographic profile. More…

Ahh,…

And may I politely point out, that for those who start out with assets, accumulation of more assets is the norm? The fact that a lot of them were born between 1945 & 1965 is only indicative that, even…

So, STFU those folk who make unwarranted generalisations.

Gen x and Gen y are deficient in economic resources compared to the next available block to compare.O.K.

That doesn't mean you are wealthy , in fact any study of wealth distribution would endorse your point of view that most folks have…

The grubby stuff was the salacious nature of the crime coverage, and probably, though it meant nothing to me back then, the horrible drawn-out business of public divorce. NZ…

There is some…

and within my very large babyboomer family&friend cohort, there is NO-ONE who takes annual holidays overseas or who is wealthy except in family & friends. So, STFU those folk who make unwarranted generalisations.

all my first musical heroes are babyboomers, Iggy, Keith, John Lennon,Jimmy Morrison,Joe Strummer.

Iggy Pop and Joe Strummer would be the only babyboomers in that lineup...

You might be seriously rewriting social history if you credit Keith Richards to the greatest generation.Maybe Britian started a bit early but technically yes…

You had to line the boxes with newspaper before filling them with dirt. That's where I read the stripper story.

Right....

So if you weren't allowed to read it, was it because it had a busty page 3 girl with no top on? 'Cos if they did, did no one pull them up on the hypocrisy of their naming and…

Later I had an after-school job in a plant nursery, sowing boxes of vege…

@Petra: no, don't know about these. Must have been before we shifted to Hammy from Wellington in 1992.

Ahh, yep. Most excellent parties they were, but very much in the 80's. Maybe in the 70's too, but that would have been before my time.

As for the Truth, I always…

Blonde Redhead

Played here last month, but it was just too damn cold, generally prone to tearing up the place. Great band.

all my first musical heroes are babyboomers, Iggy, Keith, John Lennon,Jimmy Morrison,Joe Strummer.

Iggy Pop and Joe Strummer would be the only babyboomers in that lineup...

There should be a rule when you have enough money so you can afford annual holidays away in winter, and $200 concert tickets.

Are…

Re The Pretty Things--the campaign was orchestrated by Truth

I seem to recall that the meatheaded moral guardians at Truth were fulminating against the Pretty Things' visit from the moment they became aware of it. These were the kind of get-a-haircut muscles-between-the-ears types whose idea of cutting-edge journalism was to…

Ronnie was the heart and soul of The Faces.
I guess that makes Rod and Woody the cock and balls of the Faces.

I'm guessing there are no takers
for Liver and Lungs...

...here's my take on umlauts and diareses

I thought Om louts were like premeditated lugs...
...and dire rhesus were clots of monkeys

Viv Prince rang around the stage

Must have had a long cord on the phone......ah, my coat!

Geoff, did you ever go to any "Mantis" parties in Hamilton, back in the day?

@Petra: no, don't know about these. Must have been before we shifted to Hammy from Wellington in 1992.

Re The Pretty Things--the campaign was orchestrated by Truth, after Viv Prince rang around the stage at…

Call 'em whatever you like.

It was a compliment, in context. :)

Who can afford, en masse, to pay that but the baby boomers?

Jeez I hate being lumped in with most of my contemporaries, just because of…

Ronnie was the heart and soul of The Faces.

I guess that makes Rod and Woody the cock and balls of the Faces.

/lemmetellyouthis

An umlaut changes a to ae; o to oe; or u to ue. (No umlauts on i or e, and it's mostly a German thing, but some Scandinavan languages seem to use it.)

A double-dotty diaresis tells you to…

Yeasayer, Ladyhawke, Deerhunter, Beach House, Blonde Redhead and Ariel Pink's Haunted Grafitti.

(joking!)

Taste Naziism or Nazyism?

taste Nasi Goreng, yum!
straighten up and fry rice...
as opposed to that Nazi Goering
mostly he just tasted morphine...

*We count cousins up until 2nd-to 4th generations-

It was hushed up because, in effect, it was a bit of a mutiny. Men and…

you're bound to spot some rather shabby grey-haired unfortunate plodding home with a couple of shopping bags.

Look closely mind, it may well be a generation X-er prematurely aged by the stress accrued on their exorbitant student loan;). Sorry, I just can't seem to let that one go.

The babyboomers hold a lot of money.

Babyboomers. I really should remind myself that not everyone who uses that dismal word works in marketing, but that's pretty much where it originated.

You're probably right, Jeremy, when you claim that a certain demographic holds a disproportionate amount of wealth, but you…

Wealth is highly concentrated.They hold vasts amount of passive money in relation to…

i luv the old folk.

And, actually, I pity really young people (human) rather than envy 'em.
Life's hard – and they'll learn that.
Life is not – what we expect...

Robyn Hitchcock – Young People Scream

Young people scream, but the old they don't hear what they say
Young people dance, but the old they just get in the way
Young people laugh, but the old they just don't want to hear
Because it's all been done before and…

and we're living considerably longer.