Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Reassure Me: cannabis, polling and deliberative democracy

Dennis Frank

Sun, 09 Sep 2018 14:07:08 +1200

A fascinating Jim Mora interview here with Amanda Jones PhD, MSc, the kiwi ex-pat entrepreneur at the leading edge of the medicinal cannabis industry in California: https://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018661684

BenWilson

Wed, 08 Aug 2018 12:17:24 +1200

You only need a very little bit.

A very experienced user will probably be accustomed to getting a dosage far beyond what they actually wanted (I don't want to say overdose because that implies toxicity, which is not quite the same thing), and have some inkling that time will probably…

Russell Brown

Mon, 06 Aug 2018 15:27:35 +1200

but people getting mega wasted as their first experience doesn’t seem like a good idea.

Yeah, I know of one cannabis activist with a very prodigious capacity for consuming it who was knocked over by his first try of shatter. You only need a very little bit.

Ian Dalziel

Sun, 05 Aug 2018 15:14:39 +1200

I’m not sure about the way some jurisdictions aren’t allowing concentrates for that reason.
Overheard, Auckland 2025:
"Have you seen the price of cold-pressed cannabis oil at Farro?!"
"I know!*
Those plantation riots at Ruatoria really ramped up the market
– and they're still restoring the rail link "…

BenWilson

Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:23:28 +1200

I’m not sure about the way some jurisdictions aren’t allowing concentrates for that reason.

If the plant itself is legal, then concentrates are somewhat less of a high priority. Yes, of course they are more efficient, but they are also more...concentrated. I guess once doses are well controlled and understood…

Russell Brown

Thu, 02 Aug 2018 11:50:03 +1200

ETA: It’s quite likely, IMHO, that smoking it at all would end up being far less common, at which point the whole thing of drying it out would fall by the wayside. For pain it would probably be eaten, and for recreation, vaporized. Both are much healthier than inhaling hot…

BenWilson

Thu, 02 Aug 2018 11:01:54 +1200

Yes, the concept of there being any level of refinement in the taste of tobacco smoke is something I have to take people’s word for, but I would pretty strongly suspect that acclimatization is a very big part of it. But we digress – I think it’s true that cannabis…

Joe Wylie

Thu, 02 Aug 2018 08:57:02 +1200

...people probably lock into favourites and would sorely miss all the yummy additives that are in commercial tobacco.
While cigarettes are commonly laced with additives to promote even burning, the last I looked these weren't common in rolling tobacco. Of course there's the odd horror like Port Royal, which is…

BenWilson

Thu, 02 Aug 2018 08:06:21 +1200

You dry it out and shred it, or roll it into cigars.

But yes, as with most tastes, people probably lock into favourites and would sorely miss all the yummy additives that are in commercial tobacco.

Dennis Frank

Thu, 02 Aug 2018 07:53:20 +1200

Well, no, but I maybe get your implication. Corporate drug peddlers are unlikely to tell the truth. Sufferers are more likely to trust their doctor for accurate medication. Misplaced trust sometimes, of course!

Joe Wylie

Wed, 01 Aug 2018 22:21:27 +1200

As with tobacco, which is piss easy to grow, I doubt that most people would bother.

Tobacco certainly is "piss easy to grow". In Eastern Australia it's a common weed. Botanically speaking it's an oversized petunia. I suspect that the reason that dairy robbers haven't turned to cultivating the stuff…

Dennis Frank

Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:02:47 +1200

I agree. The medicinal dimension is separate, since sufferers often need precisely-targeted medication. Anyone has a natural right to use natural products in whatever way they want. Social sanctions against misbehaviour that may result is a separate issue due to the propensity of some to mix weed with commercial drugs…

BenWilson

Wed, 01 Aug 2018 09:37:30 +1200

Bottom line is its pretty easy to grow – a lot simpler than making a good beer, at least in my experience.

That's been my experience of both beer brewing and growing plants. Plants just want to grow and and most of the trouble is in making sure you do…

Rob Stowell

Tue, 31 Jul 2018 20:24:22 +1200

Bottom line is its pretty easy to grow – a lot simpler than making a good beer, at least in my experience. That's part of why it's so hard to control, and also likely to keep a ghastly corporate plastic-high from taking off – or at least taking over.

BenWilson

Tue, 31 Jul 2018 16:11:32 +1200

If you are asking about what I think will happen, I just don't know. There really is a chance that everything I outlined above could come to pass, with only minor changes. Or it could never get off the drawing board due to the cowardliness or prejudice of politicians, or…

BenWilson

Tue, 31 Jul 2018 16:02:24 +1200

Are you asking what we’d like or what we think will happen?

What I’d like is pretty straightforward. You can grow it for personal use, get a license to sell it, the sale would be basically covered by the same rules as alcohol, probably including venue. Preparations of it beyond…

william blake

Tue, 31 Jul 2018 15:13:59 +1200

How do people here envisage the New Zealand of the future with different legislation around the use of cannabis? Particularly if we arrive at legalisation, government controll and excise tax.

BenWilson

Tue, 31 Jul 2018 07:58:51 +1200

My reason for being somewhat vague is because the overall thrust of the point was that sophisticated statistics should be brought to bear without us predetermining the details.

I'd say that both the goals of stratification you mention are worth considering. Proportional representation of strata matters, but ensuring at least…

linger

Mon, 30 Jul 2018 16:11:33 +1200

A stratified sample is one in which there are fixed quotas for certain defined subgroups. But we need to distinguish two possible types of stratification, used for different purposes.

The first has the aim of ensuring those groups are all represented, usually in order to facilitate subsequent comparisons of those…

BenWilson

Mon, 30 Jul 2018 13:47:06 +1200

I don't really want to explain in great detail what I mean by stratification based sampling here, btw. Suffice to say that if the aim in the selected jury is to get a sample that represents the population, then the methods by which to get such a sample are the…

BenWilson

Mon, 30 Jul 2018 13:37:20 +1200

There’s a lot that’s really positive about this. However much I would like the government to just short circuit it all, a long democratically engaged deliberative process seems likely to me to deliver a better outcome. It’s also a really good process to set up generally.

The citizen jury concept…

Sacha

Sun, 29 Jul 2018 00:47:18 +1200

Thanks. I've marked up the quote now.

andin

Sat, 28 Jul 2018 20:43:07 +1200

they werent that poster's personal opinions.

It was a polemic from a school principal who hasnt read the legislation and had a knee jerk reaction which he put into words and foisted on the school newsletter spreading misinformation further using emotional blackmail disguised as an alternative viewpoint.

Sacha

Sat, 28 Jul 2018 16:26:54 +1200

At MAGS we will take every step to ensure our school remains drug-free. The potential of our young people can only be realised when the mind and body are healthy

Guess he'll be banning junk food as well, then.

andin

Sat, 28 Jul 2018 16:14:45 +1200

! There is no such thing as a ‘legal high’.

Wonder if he was having a chardonnay while writing this polemic.
I hear it lubricates the juices... with irrationality

Eediot

Fri, 27 Jul 2018 18:38:23 +1200

Not sure that this editorial from the head of MAGS in the school newsletter today is helpful. Did i miss the part of the proposed legislation that allows schools kids to legally take marijuana?:

The Great Brain Robbery
Educators and parents will be closely following the debate around potentially decriminalising…

Russell Brown

Thu, 26 Jul 2018 12:02:59 +1200

Here's my hot take for The Spinoff yesterday afternoon on the difference between the government bill and Shane Reti's.

I do think National's is the better bill, not least because it makes for more meaningful change sooner. On the other hand, parts of it – the fit-and-proper-person stuff – are…

Dennis Frank

Wed, 25 Jul 2018 20:55:59 +1200

That three-way split in the poll is likely to result in the government framing the referendum to test support for decriminalisation over the status quo, I suspect. As the basis for changing the law, that binary framing would provide the mandate: the third of voters preferring legalisation would vote for…

Rob S

Wed, 25 Jul 2018 19:51:20 +1200

Imagine being Simon Bridges, not quite getting that boost in the polls with nothing to show for his road show.
Meanwhile the soft breathing of The Crusher susurrating in the background like something metastasizing in a Stephen King novel.
tick tock tick tock, quick throw some half baked plan to…

simon g

Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:22:51 +1200

The test of National's good faith is a simple one: what would now be happening if National had remained in government after the 2017 election? Imagine Prime Minister Bill English, with or without the support of NZ First, advocating for their new bill. Imagine Cabinet minister Simon Bridges insisting on…

linger

Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:08:33 +1200

Note Bridges' cynical attempt to head off any chance of a wider-scope "reeferendum" by trying to limit the discussion to high-end medical extracts.

Moz

Wed, 25 Jul 2018 15:05:40 +1200

use public meetings in our biggest cities

That actively avoids the whole "representative sample" part of the process though. In multiple ways. But it does favour opinionated, older, whiter, richer people... who are already over-repersented in the political processes. It would be more reasonable to exclude them on the basis…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:45:41 +1200

The larger the population sample the more representative of the community it becomes

That isn't entirely true you actually don't need that large a sample before you accurately model public opinion. More importantly what you describe is a large sample of uninformed opinion.

The idea of Iceland's system is that…

Dennis Frank

Wed, 25 Jul 2018 11:11:40 +1200

Andrew's suggestion is an excellent idea. "A citizens jury is a randomly selected group of civilians who listen to expert perspectives for several days before forming a judgement on an issue."

"Ireland's Citizens' Assembly was a randomly-chosen but demographically representative group of 99 people who gave up their weekends to…

Public Address

Wed, 25 Jul 2018 11:11:40 +1200

Discussion from blog post.