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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Rationalisation is at hand!</title>
		<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/</link>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73586#post73586</link>
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						<p>"...there's hardly any publicity about the true numbers."</p><p>That's true, and I found your stats above interesting &ndash; I didn't know the numbers myself. (And in hindsight "some" is better as it's clearer.)</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:38:37 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73564#post73564</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73564#post73564</guid>
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						<p>Steve, my apologies. I added that second post cos I realised I'd pushed your position a bit too far.  Should have slept on it.</p><p>You'll notice the difference between saying "many" in your original post and "some" in the one above.  I heard "many" as closer to "most", when perhaps…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:42:40 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73552#post73552</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73552#post73552</guid>
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						"...and therefore should <strong>not</strong> get to vote <em>is</em> pretty specious." was what I meant.
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:10:30 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73548#post73548</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73548#post73548</guid>
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						<p>Sacha, I understand your desire to make your point, but…</p><blockquote><p>Steve, you're correctly reflecting the stereotype that disabled people couldn't possibly run their own lives.</p></blockquote><p>…that’s just not what I said. I didn’t say all disabled people couldn’t possibly run their own lives, or even that <em>most</em> disabled people can’t…</p>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:02:46 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Hilary Stace</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73543#post73543</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73543#post73543</guid>
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						Just to keep this discussion going I have just read the National Party education crusade stuff and see the way they are going to get around having to include kids with special ed needs in their testing results league tables is to force them out of the mainstream schools and…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:22:35 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73513#post73513</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73513#post73513</guid>
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						Steve, I acknowledge your overall support but that post was about your assumption that "many" disabled people can't run their own lives.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:52:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73512#post73512</link>
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						<p>Steve, you're correctly reflecting the stereotype  that disabled people couldn't possibly run their own lives.</p><p>National surveys linked to the Census show that of the one in five New Zealanders who are disabled (yes, 20%), about half use no support services or equipment at all. Only about one in forty…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 23:48:08 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73492#post73492</link>
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						<blockquote><p>I'm interested to see the voting age discussion has gone on. I'd still like to see it at 12 years by 2020.</p></blockquote><p>Stop <em>saying</em> that, Hilary! One more utterance about allowing 12-year-olds to vote, and John Amiria will drop dead of sheer gobsmackitude</p><p>Honestly, though, there is zero chance of…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 22:15:29 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Hilary Stace</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73475#post73475</link>
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						<p>I'm interested to see the voting age discussion has gone on. I'd still like to see it at 12 years by 2020. I was dead keen to vote when I was 12 so I would like to give others the chance. It would be an option &ndash; not compulsory.</p><p> I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:09:05 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73468#post73468</link>
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						<blockquote><p>But McCain's response to her was little better...why are Arabs not 'decent family men' by implication?</p></blockquote><p>Well spotted.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:09:34 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73351#post73351</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Sorry Steve, thats not the median</p></blockquote><p>Well bugger me.<br />I've been doing it that way for years with massive data sets, admittedly with relatively small standard deviations. I seem to remember being taught do do it that way in physics and it had something to do with divide and conquer. I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:02:39 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Littlewood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73334#post73334</link>
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						<blockquote>I also noticed a point while reading the comments: Graeme points out the current age of adult criminal responsibility is 17. To borrow from another poster there: The idea that someone can have a family, a job, a house (unlikely, admittedly, but theoretically possible), be in the military and be…</blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:35:45 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Simon Grigg</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73305#post73305</link>
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						<blockquote><p>She didn't get a chance, to McCain's credit</p></blockquote><p>She, Gayle Quinnell, was <a href="http://politicalblogs.startribune.com/bigquestionblog/?p=1167" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">interviewed afterwords</a> and said:</p><blockquote><p>I don’t trust Barack Obama because he’s an Arab,” she said. “He’s a Muslim. I’m afraid if he ever got to be president what would happen to this country</p></blockquote><p>But McCain's response to her…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 13:27:26 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73302#post73302</link>
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						<blockquote><p>And I think 18 is the right age to have the responsibility to vote. By then most people have <em>some</em> perspective.</p></blockquote><p>Some at 18, none at 17?<br />Also, again, I know of people who are over 18 and who take virtually no interest in the news, current affairs etc. They…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 13:18:33 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>3410</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73296#post73296</link>
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						<p>Totally O/T, but I wouldn't want <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&amp;objectid=10537054" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">this serious revelation</a> to pass without notice.</p><blockquote><p>Police have hired one of the country's top lawyers to investigate a former officer's stunning confession that he lied in court &ndash; and wrongfully sent at least 150 people to prison.</p></blockquote><p>It is exactly what some of us…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 13:04:25 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73288#post73288</link>
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						<blockquote><p>New Zealand Income Survey: June 2008 quarter – Media Release</p><p>Income growth moderate</p><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><p>In the June 2008 quarter, the median (half receive more, and half receive less than this amount) weekly income for all people from all sources was $537, Statistics New Zealand said today. This information comes from the…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:49:10 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73287#post73287</link>
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						<blockquote><p>there is nothing wrong with that statement.</p></blockquote><p>Agree. Median vs average. Journos not challenging quite deliberate mis-use of it or of subsequent lying that a certain tax/Kiwisaver change package "benefits everyone".</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:48:53 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>FletcherB</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73286#post73286</link>
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						<p>Sorry Steve, thats not the median </p><p>the median is the value of the middle sample ....   10, 10, 100 gives a median of 10... because it's the middle sample.</p><p>IF there were an even number of samples, then you could average the middle two samples only...   10, 10, 20, 100…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:46:11 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73285#post73285</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73285#post73285</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Person 1 salary = $10,000<br />Person 2 salary = $10,000<br />Person 3 salary = $100,000<br />Average salary = $120,000 / 3 = $40,000<br />2 out of 3 people are below the average = two thirds of the population.</p></blockquote><p>In that scenario the median is $45,000<br />Highest = 100,000<br />Lowest = 10,000…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:38:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Evan Yates</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73274#post73274</link>
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						<p>@Sacha</p><blockquote><p>I read somewhere recently that two thirds of the population earn below that "average" income, but sorry no time to find reference.</p></blockquote><p>I'm not sure if you are using this as an indictment of the maths ability of journalists, but there is nothing wrong with that statement. <br />Scenario:</p><p>Person…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:55:13 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Littlewood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73272#post73272</link>
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						<p>Are we still  talking about the elligible age for voting in elections?<br />Anyway, I'll assume we are.<br />As someone whose family lived, breathed and worked politics for many years, I was pretty immersed in it from a young age- even to the extent that I won a speech competition in…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:47:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Mark Harris</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73271#post73271</link>
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						<blockquote><p>2) If it actually uses the words 'arab terrorist', who authorised it (how far up the tree can that one be traced)?</p></blockquote><p>"I'm John McCain and I approve this message"</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:36:13 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73269#post73269</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Rich, I didn't get the impression from the clip that he was expecting it &ndash; but given how low these guys will stoop for power, you're probably right.</p></blockquote><p>I should probably make it clear that i haven't seen the clip or read the commentary &ndash; all I was doing was…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:32:47 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73263#post73263</link>
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						Oops. My comment above was directed at John's last one, one page back now.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:15:32 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73262#post73262</link>
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						They did ask for the voting age to be lowered to 16. Some (Hilary, I think it was) suggested 16 initially, and going lower progressively. (I think the time line suggested was entirely unrealistic, but we're all allowed to hypothesize, I guess. But I do think there will be continued…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:13:32 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73261#post73261</link>
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						<blockquote><p>So the campaign office distributes flyers containing the smears, and McCain gets to rebut them and look like a decent and honourable chap who's above all of that dirty low-blow fighting.</p></blockquote><p>Rich, I didn't get the impression from the clip that he was expecting it &ndash; but given how low…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:07:41 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73260#post73260</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Has no-one understood the difference between average and median in journalism-land?</p></blockquote><p>I read somewhere recently that two thirds of the population earn below that "average" income, but sorry no time to find reference.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:04:32 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73259#post73259</link>
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						<blockquote><p>A great band who were never really documented.</p></blockquote><p>Bloody fantastic live performers.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:02:47 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>JohnAmiria</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73253#post73253</link>
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						<blockquote>I look forward to your campaign to have the age of consent raised to 18, John.</blockquote>And maybe those proposing that Youth be enfranchised would have more success if they asked for the voting age to be lowered to 16, not 12.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 10:05:42 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73250#post73250</link>
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						<blockquote><p>If you're going to mention "The Great Schlep" you have to include Sarah Silverman's promo.</p></blockquote><p>I posted that already &ndash; page 7.</p><p>But I thought it might not have been prominent enough, so good to see it drawn attention to again. Silverman's show is back on again, too. It's pretty…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 09:35:37 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73247#post73247</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Seriously, if you think a 12 year old has the mental capacity to vote responsibly then it follows that they also have the mental capacity to drink responsibly and make a responsible choice as to whether they have sex or not.</p></blockquote><p>I look forward to your campaign to have the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 09:27:11 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich Lock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73246#post73246</link>
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						<blockquote><p>She didn't get a chance, to McCain's credit.</p></blockquote><p>So the campaign office distributes flyers containing the smears, and McCain gets to rebut them and look like a decent and honourable chap who's above all of that dirty low-blow fighting.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:31:05 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Simon Grigg</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73241#post73241</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Why o why did Mesh never release anything, even a poxy EP?</p></blockquote><p>We were actually quite a long way towards doing just that, when Paddy left to form Pitch Black. There were, I think, about 6 or 7 tracks recorded. It all got a bit complicated.</p><p>A great band who…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 02:57:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>JohnAmiria</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73238#post73238</link>
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						<p>The 12 year old's of 2020 (those babies born this year) will probably be as sophisticated as the 18 year old new voters of 1975.</p><blockquote><p>The 12 year old's of 2020 (those babies born this year) will probably be as sophisticated as the 18 year old new voters of 1975.</p></blockquote><p>So…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 01:34:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>TracyMac</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73237#post73237</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73237#post73237</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Thanks for the stonking track, Russell. I'll be getting yet more of Mr Free's oeuvre, I can tell. Why o why did <em>Mesh</em> never release anything, even a poxy EP?</p><p>Getting back to Kiwisaver and tax cuts, did anyone notice the sloppy journalism in The Herald (why am I surprised),…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 01:19:16 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>tussock</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73236#post73236</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73236#post73236</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>My 14 year old niece just wants the latest cell-phone ... I'm not sure if she's ready to select the next government.</p></blockquote><p>Ask her. I think you'll find the only reason she wouldn't know all about income tax, budgeting, and employment law is that no one's taken the time to…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 00:27:00 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>WH</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73234#post73234</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73234#post73234</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						I guess you hold an election with the country you have.  I watched the second debate with two Californian conservatives.  Both said they wouldn't vote for Obama on the grounds that they feared for his life if he was elected, although I came to suspect there was more to it…
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 22:58:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73231#post73231</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73231#post73231</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>That outburst on Willie's Eye to Eye this morning just lends sympathy to Peters.</p></blockquote><p>And Mr Jackson even ended the show with a sympathetic rendering of this (much funnier) plea from Lyndon Hood: <a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0808/S00251.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Satirists Urge Winston Not To Resign</a>.</p><blockquote><p>I salute you. You are a natural provocation to ridicule, you…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 22:20:26 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73228#post73228</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73228#post73228</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						She didn't get a chance, to McCain's credit.
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:49:52 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>3410</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73225#post73225</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73225#post73225</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Did you just make that up?</p></blockquote><p>I was quoting the woman at that McCain rally. She said Obama is an "Arab", but I'm fairly sure she didn't say "Arab terrorist".<br />:)</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:20:50 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73224#post73224</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73224#post73224</guid>
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						<p>They got Obama confused with Ralph Nader:<br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader</a><br />Being born of Lebanese parents, Nader even speaks Arabic.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:16:08 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Rowe</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73223#post73223</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73223#post73223</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Yeah, she says "Arab", not "Arab terrorist".  And to McCain's credit he puts her straight.</p><p>That Limbaugh piece is terrible, verbwrangle, talk about double-speak</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:14:50 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jan Farr</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73222#post73222</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73222#post73222</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>No, that's what I heard too when they screened the clip on telly last night &ndash; "Arab".</p></blockquote><p>Perhaps it comes from <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/23/limbaugh-obama-arab-2/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">here</a>.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:03:00 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73221#post73221</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73221#post73221</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Did you just make that up?</p></blockquote><p>No, that's what I heard too when they screened the clip on telly last night &ndash; "Arab".</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:44:39 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>linger</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73220#post73220</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73220#post73220</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Far far upthread, Evan</p><blockquote><p>once submitted a movie review of "Goodbye Pork Pie" to IMDb using the term <em>hoon</em> to describe Gerry [...] The yankee editors changed it to <em>goon</em></p></blockquote><p>And it's still there! <br />In defense of IMDB, however, the movie does contain this exchange [on the streets of Wellington]:…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:07:35 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jan Farr</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73219#post73219</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73219#post73219</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>How so?<br />"Arab", yes; "Arab terrorist", no.</p></blockquote><p>Did you just make that up?  According to <a href="http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/17/news/obama.1.php" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">this article</a> Obama had a white mother, a Kenyan father, an Indonesian step father and he was brought up in Hawaii.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:55:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>3410</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73218#post73218</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73218#post73218</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>"Arab terrorist" (it appears that is what she said)</p></blockquote><p>How so?<br />"Arab", yes; "Arab terrorist", no.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:40:20 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73217#post73217</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73217#post73217</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						You're right &ndash; the bar wasn't set particularly high.
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:25:26 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73215#post73215</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73215#post73215</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Compared to some of her Act colleagues, Coddingtonswallop was positively gifted.</p></blockquote><p>Currently driving down the National Party electoral vote in Wellington Central for example.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:21:46 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73213#post73213</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73213#post73213</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Okay, this isn't even funny any more.</p><p>The woman who stood up at the McCain rally and told him she was scared because Obama is an "Arab terrorist" (it appears that is what she said) is a McCain-Palin volunteer who got her knowledge from a pamphlet given to her by…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:37:11 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Rowe</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73211#post73211</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73211#post73211</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>What is it about Hooten? When you say Winston Peters, he comes out barking mad with the widely reported "you're a f<strong>king c</strong>*".</p></blockquote><p>I wonder if that will make it to youtube?</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:17:28 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Shep  Cheyenne</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73209#post73209</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73209#post73209</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>What is it about Hooten? When you say Winston Peters, he comes out barking mad with the widely reported "you're a f<strong>king c</strong>*".</p><p>That outburst on Willies Eye to eye this morning just lends sympathy to Peters. </p><p>On the positive side it shows National has its fair share of loons.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:34:47 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73208#post73208</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73208#post73208</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Compared to some of her Act colleagues, Coddingtonswallop was positively gifted.</p></blockquote><p>I had forgotten.  The horror.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:26:58 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Rowe</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73207#post73207</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73207#post73207</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Was she really this stupid as an MP?</p></blockquote><p>Compared to some of her <a href="http://www.nzcpr.com/weekly150.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Act colleagues</a>, Coddingtonswallop was positively gifted.</p><blockquote><p>If you're going to mention "The Great Schlep" you have to include Sarah Silverman's promo</p></blockquote><p>Thanks for posting, Paul, I got distracted by real life.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:06:51 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jan Farr</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73206#post73206</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73206#post73206</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						And just to restore the self respect of we ladies, here's an interesting comment on tax credits from <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/kiwisaver/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501206&amp;objectid=10536929" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> Mary Holm</a>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:06:56 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73204#post73204</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73204#post73204</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						Thanks, Sofie.  Anyone who thinks the phrase "hidden agenda" is unfair ought to read that story.  When are the Nats going to have some ideas that aren't a tired re-run of the 90s, like their front bench. Craig, you need to give em a rev up. Voters deserve a genuine…
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 12:25:52 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73203#post73203</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73203#post73203</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>couldn't stop my crap loving mouse from clicking on the link</p></blockquote><p>Story of my online life..  :)</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 12:19:38 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sofie Bribiesca</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73202#post73202</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73202#post73202</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p><a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/sundaystartimes/4724193a6005.html " target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> Typical</a><br />But you knew that, didn't you.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 12:19:17 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jan Farr</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73201#post73201</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73201#post73201</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Anyway, if you want a relaxing day, don't feel compelled to read her delusional ramblings. Although they are a fascinating study of immature entitlement in the pampered boomer.</p></blockquote><p>Too late.  I somehow couldn't stop my crap loving mouse from clicking on the link!  You have to admire her though for…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 12:10:17 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Spinner</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73200#post73200</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73200#post73200</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>TEENAGER #1: I'm sixteen, I'm old enough to marry and have children, but I can't drink in pubs. When will the government wake up and realize that young adults are mature and responsible people?</p><p><br />TEENAGER #2: I'm sixteen, right? I can join the Army, the Air Force and the Navy...…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 12:05:31 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73199#post73199</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73199#post73199</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						If you're going to mention "The Great Schlep" you have to include <a href="http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/dafdd1aa7b" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Sarah Silverman's promo</a>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 11:23:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73198#post73198</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73198#post73198</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>And speaking of competence, how does a blithering fool like Coddington actually get paid for writing <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&amp;objectid=10537006&amp;pnum=0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">such crap</a>.  </p><p>She goes on about how hardy farming types respond to a downturn, without making any connection with what Cullen for all his faults has been doing. Was she really this stupid as an…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 11:21:51 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Rowe</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73196#post73196</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73196#post73196</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Speaking of older voters, <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4923015.ece" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">this</a> tickled my fancy, from the Times.</p><blockquote><p>The Great Schlep</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 10:31:18 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>nic.wise</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73193#post73193</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73193#post73193</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Paddy Free track: yay! It's awsome!</p><p>Only available on CD: boo :( I dont have a CD player, and we have 3 ipods (Well, my Mac is, but what use do I have for a plastic disk?)</p><p>I guess I have to wait for the MP3s on amplifier, or until…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 05:09:27 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73191#post73191</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73191#post73191</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>I just love the way we use age as a substitute for competence, when that's what we're really trying to establish.  </p><p>I've met 14 year olds whose judgement I trust and 64 year olds I wouldn't.  Fortunately most people are in between. </p><p>However, some of the denizens of the foaming…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:41:59 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73190#post73190</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73190#post73190</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Good point, 16 &amp; 17 year olds wouldn't be the *only* voters.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, Rich, I think it was an objection to <strong>12</strong>-year-olds voting that got the latest exchange going. But otherwise, yeah &ndash; if "brain too young to make decision in own interests" flys as a reason for not letting someone…</p>
					]]></description>
				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:35:24 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73188#post73188</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73188#post73188</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<blockquote><p>Is anyone suggesting a voting system that allows only your niece to select the next government?</p></blockquote><p>Good point, 16 &amp; 17 year olds wouldn't be the *only* voters.</p><p>We allow people whose brains have atrophied from old age to vote &ndash; mostly for NZ First.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 23:14:55 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73187#post73187</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73187#post73187</guid>
				<description><![CDATA[
						<p>Lucy wrote (with all respect due):</p><blockquote><p>With all due respect: WTF, dude? It's eighteen for alcohol and voting, and has been for quite some time now.</p></blockquote><p>Oops!… Good point. But importantly, we (“we” being society) didn’t <em>automatically</em> assume being old enough to vote and being old enough to buy booze…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:51:38 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73186#post73186</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Should we take away the right to vote when we consider Gran has got just too dottery?</p></blockquote><p>Good point. While she (or Grandpa) may be denied a drivers licence on account of being certified as a dotard, they retain the right to vote.</p><blockquote><p>I have a 40-year-old uncle who’s a…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:37:45 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73185#post73185</link>
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						<blockquote><p><em>Again, 15 year olds also have interests, and also need representation. Where do you draw the line?</em></p><p>As low as I can get away with. That relentless downward pressure, you see…</p></blockquote><p>Don’t dodge, I/S. I’m not asking what you think you can get away with; I’m asking where do <strong>you</strong>…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:17:31 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Lucy Stewart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73184#post73184</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Then close it by changing the law, if that's a valid concern. We don’t allow people to buy alcohol at the same age as they can vote. Separate issue</p></blockquote><p>With all due respect: WTF, dude? It's eighteen for alcohol and voting, and has been for quite some time now. </p><p>The…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:14:56 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73183#post73183</link>
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						<p>Mic weevil wrote:</p><blockquote><p>so your hormones play a role in your voting habits?</p></blockquote><p>Actually, yes. But so do a lot of other factors. So you're right, it ain’t a strong argument in the “who should vote” debate.</p><p>Lucy:</p><blockquote><p>Do remember: jurors are drawn from the electoral rolls of the area…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:03:02 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Hilary Stace</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73181#post73181</link>
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						Tim &ndash; that's an example of the the sort of political education I had in mind. And most Year 7 and 8 year olds have participated in some sort of election process, either for class reps or a mock one at national or local election time. The more practice we…
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:54:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>tim kong</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73177#post73177</link>
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						<p>It's not just an issue of "Motivation" &ndash; it's getting students to understand that effort leads to results.  And to get better results requires better effort.  In any field of endeavour.</p><p>For my part &ndash; as a Year 7&amp;8 teacher (Form 1&amp;2) &ndash; adding political discussion and electoral participation into your daily…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 18:12:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Lucy Stewart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73176#post73176</link>
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						<blockquote><p>I don't deny the dangers of political marketing to children, but we've coped with that in other areas. with a good education program I think it could work.</p></blockquote><p>Do remember: jurors are drawn from the electoral rolls of the area surrounding the court requiring a jury. That's a *big* can…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:21:45 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>mic weevil</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73175#post73175</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Isn't it a fact that their brains aren't fully formed at that age? Aren't they hormonally confused at that age?</p></blockquote><p>so your hormones play a role in your voting habits?</p><p>I think including young people in the electoral process would have nothing but positive effects in terms of increasing electoral…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:26:38 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Bob Munro</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73174#post73174</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73174#post73174</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>The Troopergate report just dropped.</p><p>Key finding: Palin "abused her power" and violated the public trust.</p></blockquote><p>Funnily-  half an hour ago the New York Times had the headline Palin abused her 'authority' but have now changed to the actual words in the finding, abused her 'power'.</p><p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.nytimes.com/</a></p><p>There are some…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:59:55 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Bob Munro</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73173#post73173</link>
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						<blockquote><p>In the end the answer lies with Motivation, Motivation,Motivation</p></blockquote><p>I agree 100% with that. Our own daughter has been in the Discovery/Unlimited self-directed learning schools here in Christchurch and her motivation has never wavered. But these schools operate on basic principles far distant from the standard state school where my…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:50:31 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Ian MacKay</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73171#post73171</link>
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						Yamis/Bob: In the end the answer lies with Motivation, Motivation,Motivation. We are so used to providing the motivation <strong>to or at kids</strong> that we fail to tap the enormous power of SELF-motivation. This includes Relevance Connectivity. It amazes me that so much attention is paid to making kids get back…
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:36:15 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Bob Munro</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73168#post73168</link>
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						<blockquote><p>John, you be right there.<br />I teach teenagers and many of them simply do not have a critical thinking component operating in their brain.</p></blockquote><p>A technology teacher was telling me about the frustration he has in preparing boys for level I NCEA.</p><p>He said that 15 year old girls know…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:54:40 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73166#post73166</link>
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						<p>The <a href="http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/223539.php" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Troopergate report</a> just dropped.</p><p>Key finding: Palin "abused her power" and violated the public trust.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:47:39 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73160#post73160</link>
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						<p>Apropos absolutely nothing.<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWEEifxF_x0&amp;feature=dir " target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> Free Hugs</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:40:31 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jan Farr</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73158#post73158</link>
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						<blockquote>Actually, I'm not sure what it involves either, other than being a member... I think Danielle's captain. I'm a prop. I can't even recall when it started now... 'though a quick search suggests this comment and this one and the next two following it. On a Tze Ming Mok thread,…</blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 12:22:28 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73157#post73157</link>
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						<p>Yeah it was Angus &ndash; the whole Tait trust thing is just weird though and more a result  of family politics and paranoia as far as i can tell &ndash; it's certainly not going to be the norm for any other NZ companies</p><p>We have to face facts &ndash; our…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 11:39:27 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73156#post73156</link>
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						<p>Lucy, that's very interesting. Good on Angus (it was Angus, wasn't it?) for that kind of foresight. Shame we don't see that kind of thinking from more industry leaders.</p><p>That aside, though, we should be encouraging more companies that do the kinds of things that Tait do. Losing the Motorola…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 11:14:24 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73155#post73155</link>
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						<p>Some more alarming bigotry and knuckle-dragging stupidity on the McCain-Palin campaign trail:</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us</a></p><p>This seems to be the character of every rally at the moment. These people are almost incoherent.</p><p>It occurred to me that I wouldn't want to be black around this sort of gathering.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 10:43:06 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Yamis</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73154#post73154</link>
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						<p>John, you be right there.</p><p>I teach teenagers and many of them simply do not have a critical thinking component operating in their brain.</p><p>I could basically tell most of them who to vote for and they'd take my word for it and do it.  While that might be true…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 09:19:05 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Lucy Stewart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73152#post73152</link>
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						@Matthew Poole (about two pages late, but what the hell): Tait is actually one of the very few companies that *can't* send it's R&D overseas; it's run by a trust whose charter states that it is required to remain locally based and in local hands, and that around 90% of its…
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 08:32:04 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>JohnAmiria</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73149#post73149</link>
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						<blockquote>I have long thought our voting age needs to be lowered. It was a Labour Govt that lowered the voting age to 18 over 30 years ago. Like other policies it could be brought in progressively &ndash; eg 16 years by 2010 (for local body elections) and 14 by 2015…</blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 04:51:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73148#post73148</link>
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						<p>In a sinking economy ....<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz4Z6L4u8E4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz4Z6L4u8E4</a><br />I wonder how much John Key spends on household help ....</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 03:33:04 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73145#post73145</link>
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						<blockquote><p>if the world economy crashes then being a producer of foodstuffs and NOT consumer electronics will turn out to be a good thing to be. Provided we can afford to ship them to market that is. How good is Pinus radiata at being turned into tea clipper style ships?</p></blockquote><p>And,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:45:31 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Alex Coleman</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73144#post73144</link>
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						<blockquote><p>What exactly is the justification for making it harder for technology businesses to stay in NZ?</p></blockquote><p>Tax cuts are the healing crystals economies need to calm their troubled chakras. They don't pay for themselves you know.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:39:57 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kumara Republic</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73143#post73143</link>
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						<blockquote><p>I'm really rather pissed off at this R&amp;D move. What exactly is the justification for making it harder for technology businesses to stay in NZ?</p></blockquote><p>The Kaths and the Kims, I wager.</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:33:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Ben Austin</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73142#post73142</link>
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						I'm really rather pissed off at this R&D move. What exactly is the justification for making it harder for technology businesses to stay in NZ?
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 01:03:00 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73141#post73141</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Kyle: Charles E Wilson may very well have believed that what was good for General Motors was good for the country (or, to be strictly accurate, "What’s good for the country is good for General Motors, and vice versa"). That doesn't make it any more excusable.</p></blockquote><p>Umm. What Stephen said…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:49:24 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Withers</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73140#post73140</link>
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						One the main post: Whoever has been writing the Herald editorials appears to most often be yearning for a National win and chiding the Nats for not being radical enough. The theme that voters must be lied to and mislead for their own good is a persistent one. With that…
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				<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:11:25 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73139#post73139</link>
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						<blockquote><p><a href="http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/10/round-the-bend.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Firstly</a>, the Corner, in-as-much as it is representative of movement conservatism, shows that Obama is driving them crazy. And not really in the metaphor sense. They is gettin their Birch on. woot. etc.</p></blockquote><p>Jaysus. They certainly are.</p><p>Still, at least we get to use the phrase [[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/09/AR2008100903169.html?sid=ST2008100903556&amp;s_pos=|fear and loathing on…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:54:24 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Peter Ashby</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73138#post73138</link>
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						<p>The other thing to remember about Iceland here wrt govt guarantees is that Iceland has a population of 300,000 (Christchurch). Which is not much of a tax base on which to reimburse UK public bodies playing fast and loose with council taxpayer's money.</p><p>A bit like if I took on…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:02:10 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Peter Ashby</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73136#post73136</link>
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						Actually Matthew Poole if the world economy crashes then being a producer of foodstuffs and NOT consumer electronics will turn out to be a good thing to be. Provided we can afford to ship them to market that is. How good is Pinus radiata at being turned into tea clipper…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:56:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Peter Ashby</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73135#post73135</link>
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						The 'authorities'* here in the UK can use 'anti-terrorism' legislation in all sorts of ways many people in NZ would find appalling. Down South of the Border a member of Her Majesty's Constabulary can arrest you, just because. If you ask them for the time or directions, beware, you could…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:45:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73132#post73132</link>
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						<blockquote><p>"John Key's rich mates" does not imply that anyone rich is John Key's mate.</p><p>I/S deserves better than today's responses.</p></blockquote><p>I think the rest of us deserve a little better than Idiot's bourgois class war bullshit.  And just for the record, not that it's actually anyone else's bloody business, any…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:26:31 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73131#post73131</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73131#post73131</guid>
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						<p>That Iceland thing is interesting. I wonder if the deal with the Russians will be that Iceland gets bailed out in return for letting Russia base subs and aircraft there.</p><p>That should wind the Americans (and British) up.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:19:13 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Stephen Judd</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73129#post73129</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Charles E Wilson may very well have believed that what was good for General Motors was good for the country (or, to be strictly accurate, "What’s good for the country is good for General Motors, and vice versa"). That doesn't make it any more excusable.</p></blockquote><p>But it does, unless motivations…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 22:05:30 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Alex Coleman</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73126#post73126</link>
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						<p><a href="http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_10/015111.php" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Bugger</a>.</p><p> New Link : Now with extra sense.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:52:51 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Hilary Stace</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73125#post73125</link>
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						I/S, I agree. I have long thought our voting age needs to be lowered. It was  a Labour Govt that lowered the voting age to 18 over 30 years ago. Like other policies it could be brought in progressively &ndash; eg 16 years by 2010 (for local body elections) and…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:51:07 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Alex Coleman</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73124#post73124</link>
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						<p>Re: The US, the Palin and the crazy.</p><p>Two posts from the very reasonable Hilzoy. </p><p> <a href="http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/10/round-the-bend.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Firstly</a> , the Corner, in-as-much as it is representative of movement conservatism, shows that Obama is driving them crazy. And not really in the metaphor sense. They is  gettin their Birch on. woot. etc.</p><p><br /><a href="2008_10/015111.php">Secondly</a>,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:50:20 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Deborah</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73123#post73123</link>
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						<blockquote><p>I've seen [the PAS Women's First XV] mentioned and have been intrigued as to what it would involve. I'm sure I'd enjoy being included</p></blockquote><p>Actually, I'm not sure what it involves either, other than being a member...  I think Danielle's captain.  I'm a prop.  I can't even recall when it…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:44:42 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73120#post73120</link>
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						Very inclusive  :)
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:05:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Mark Harris</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73119#post73119</link>
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				<description><![CDATA[
						Apropos of our usual discussions, <a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/09/palin.investigation/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">  Palin investigation can proceed, Alaska high court rules</a>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:04:15 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Barbara</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73117#post73117</link>
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						<p>@Deborah<br />I've seen it mentioned and have been intrigued as to what it would involve. I'm sure I'd enjoy being included</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:30:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Deborah</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73115#post73115</link>
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						<blockquote><p>By the way I am a long time lurker, but have always felt that others put my point of view rather more eloquently. And some of the response can be a little scary.</p></blockquote><p>Barbara, do you fancy joining the PAS Women's First XV?  It's a very inclusive team.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:16:17 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Barbara</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73114#post73114</link>
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						<p>@Sofie<br />and @Mark</p><p>thanks for the welcome!! It is actually quite reassuring</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:08:39 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sofie Bribiesca</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73112#post73112</link>
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						<blockquote><p>@ Mark</p><p>well that is your opinion...</p></blockquote><p>I see you are learning fast there Barbara ;)</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:05:04 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>3410</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73110#post73110</link>
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						<p>"John Key's rich mates" does <em>not</em> imply that anyone rich is John Key's mate.</p><p>I/S deserves better than today's responses.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:59:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jan Farr</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73109#post73109</link>
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						<p>Barbara:</p><blockquote><p>By the way I am a long time lurker, but have always felt that others put my point of view rather more eloquently. And some of the response can be a little scary.</p></blockquote><p>Couldn't agree more Barbara.  I think you might be speaking for quite a few women. It…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:51:11 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>81stcolumn</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73108#post73108</link>
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						<blockquote><p>The Icelandic government is refusing to guarantee British deposits and in response Gordon Brown is threatening to use anti-terrorism legislation to freeze Icelandic assets in Britain. It does make things here seem quite sedate.</p></blockquote><p>Cod wars !</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:45:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Barbara</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73107#post73107</link>
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						<p>@ Mark</p><p>well that is your opinion... and I appreciate the tongue firmly in your cheek</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:40:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Mark Harris</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73106#post73106</link>
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						Whadddya mean, scary?!??! We're NICE! GENTLE, even!! And NEVER OVER THE TOP!!!! ;-)
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:38:29 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Barbara</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73105#post73105</link>
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						<p>the change in polls is interesting as polls must favour those in upper income brackets. Many households don't have landlines. I know this from my work in the community sector.<br />By the way I am a long time lurker, but have always felt that others put my point of view…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:35:14 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73102#post73102</link>
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						<blockquote><p>I was pleasantly surprised to see a Stuff poll yesterday with most respondents (3000+) rejecting the bribe (yes, I know teh online polls are unreliable &ndash; but the bias usually seems to go the other way, much like the rabid comments).</p></blockquote><p>So, Sacha, I look forward to a tsunami of…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:26:27 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73101#post73101</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Indeed it is. But that's not what I'm doing. Meanwhile your (and others) preciousness is obscuring rather than aiding the discussion.</p></blockquote><p>*cough*  Project much, Idiot?  And, yes, that's exactly what you're doing &mdash; but if it gets you through the night, fine.  Just pardon me if I take you about…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:22:48 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73099#post73099</link>
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						<p>TV3 poll</p><p>National 45<br />Labour 39<br />Greens 6.8%</p><p>Maori Party chooses the government.</p><p>Golly.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:03:22 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73097#post73097</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Isn't that what ACT's about &ndash; too bad if Telecom was a ruthless and somewhat shonky monopoly &ndash; "Let no mere mortal put asunder what St. Roger hath created" ?</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, pretty much. "Free market uber alles", says Sir Roger, and his faithful "Act-olytes" bow, and scrape, and fellate the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:55:04 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>mic weevil</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73096#post73096</link>
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						<p>"Again, 15 year olds also have interests, and also need representation. Where do you draw the line?"</p><p>if the maori can have maori seats, how about a seperate electorate for youth interests?  that could make the political landscape really interesting.  say 3 or 4 MPs representing those aged 12 to…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:45:38 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Joe Wylie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73093#post73093</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Yes, that is certainly one of Rodders' pet ideologies. Never mind that Telecom's shareholders have been thoroughly reimbursed for the purchase cost at least twice over by way of monopoly rents. Never mind that we were demonstrably being held back by the stranglehold over the market that Telecom enjoyed.</p></blockquote><p>Isn't…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:39:49 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73092#post73092</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Again, 15 year olds also have interests, and also need representation. Where do you draw the line?</p></blockquote><p>As low as I can get away with.   That relentless downward pressure, you see...</p><p>Austria lets 16 year olds vote.  In Iran, the voting age is 12.  There's no principled reason why we…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:39:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73091#post73091</link>
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						<p>Wooo! Some Friday!</p><p><a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/4722914a11.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">The terror-raids contempt charges against Fairfax have been dismissed</a>.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:37:43 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73090#post73090</link>
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						<blockquote><p>he went <em>off</em> about the property rights of Telecom and its investors</p></blockquote><p>Yes, that is certainly one of Rodders' pet ideologies. Never mind that Telecom's shareholders have been thoroughly reimbursed for the purchase cost <strong>at least</strong> twice over by way of monopoly rents. Never mind that we were demonstrably being…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:32:07 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73088#post73088</link>
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						<p>Further on the Prime Minister's upbeat mood:</p><p>Might she have had an inkling that the SFO would find that while there could be breaches of electoral law, NZ First <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&amp;objectid=10536797" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">did not commit fraud</a>?</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:27:24 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73086#post73086</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Steve: I agree entirely</p><p>And it would be interesting to know how today's children feel about John Key saddling them with debt so he can give a great stonking tax cut to his rich mates.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, I was being a bit facetious. But now you mention it, I would be…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:18:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73085#post73085</link>
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						<blockquote><p>I thought Roy Morgan was a nasty foreign organisation with dodgy methodology and a long run of rogue polls?</p></blockquote><p>I wouldn't say "rogue", but the odd one has provided false comfort to Labour in the past, for sure.</p><blockquote><p>Still, does show that not releasing any policy and sticking to headline-grabbing…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:14:21 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jan Farr</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73084#post73084</link>
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						<p>Fletcher  B and Lyndon Hood:</p><p>Sorry &ndash; I am wrong.  It looks as though WFF, superannuitants and others on government benefits who earn under $40,000 miss out in 2009 and 2010 and are about $15 behind by 2011.  </p><p>However, if you earn over $48,000 and are receiving a government benefit…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:07:07 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73077#post73077</link>
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						<blockquote><p>In our neck of the woods, substitute "GM" for "Telecom", and "Charles E Wilson" for "Rod Deane".</p></blockquote><p>In the recent TVNZ 7 Internet Debate, the only time that Rodney Hide really stopped clowning and became passionately serious was when I pointed out that since the telecommunications reforms, my neighbourhood had…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:57:44 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kumara Republic</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73067#post73067</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Kyle: Charles E Wilson may very well have believed that what was good for General Motors was good for the country (or, to be strictly accurate, "What’s good for the country is good for General Motors, and vice versa"). That doesn't make it any more excusable.</p></blockquote><p>In our neck of…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:21:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Evan Yates</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73066#post73066</link>
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						<p>The Treasury web page that I/S linked to is a great resource!</p><p>From it I learned that the 22% of wage earners who earn more than the average wage (I rounded to $50k to fit with the chart bands ) actually pay 66% of the total tax take... Cool!</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:20:51 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73064#post73064</link>
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						<blockquote><p>That's a trick question, under Labour's scheme John Key doesn't get to be Prime Minister.</p></blockquote><p>Point.  And yet because Labour has focused on changing thresholds rather than rates, he'd get exactly the same amount.  And the difference between the two schemes is money that helps people further down the income…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:16:21 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73060#post73060</link>
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						<p>Paul: an excellent question indeed.  I wonder if any journalists will ask it?</p><p>Evan:</p><blockquote><p>The trick to doing this is to hoodwink the masses into THINKING that they are being looked after.</p></blockquote><p>Hence the constant talk about "average" kiwis, which simply ignores the <a href="http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/2008/taxpayers/01.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">reality</a> of income distribution in this country.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:10:08 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Rowe</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73059#post73059</link>
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						<blockquote><p>BTW, for the curious, based on the current PM's salary of $375,000, John Key's tax cut would be $7,660. Under Labour's scheme, he would get only $1,410.</p></blockquote><p>That's a trick question, under Labour's scheme John Key doesn't get to be Prime Minister.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:08:25 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Gareth Ward</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73058#post73058</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Meanwhile your (and others) preciousness is obscuring rather than aiding the discussion.</p></blockquote><p>As is your overly emotive, negatively-loaded comments like "John Key's rich mates"...</p><p>NZInstitute and the NZX have just put out this interesting document.  I see a few flaws in a number of the proposals (and particularly on how/when…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:07:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73057#post73057</link>
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						Kyle: Charles E Wilson may very well have believed that what was good for General Motors was good for the country (or, to be strictly accurate, "What’s good for the country is good for General Motors, <em>and vice versa</em>").  That doesn't make it any more excusable.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:06:53 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Eddie Clark</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73056#post73056</link>
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						<blockquote><p>don't think that word means what they think it means.</p></blockquote><p>Use anti-terrorism powers for an unintended purpose?  Inconceivable!</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:06:41 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Evan Yates</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73054#post73054</link>
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						<blockquote><p>And when a party proposes policies with the primary aim of enriching its supporters at the expense of the majority of New Zealanders or of future generations, that's not something we should politely look the other way on.</p></blockquote><p>And if sufficient people were adversely affected then that party would not…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:03:45 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73053#post73053</link>
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						<p>Well JK has an independent income &ndash; probably far above any salary he gets from parliament &ndash; I suspect his income is far above that of the PM</p><p>It's actually a great question for ALL the leaders in a debate &ndash; "how much more will you personally be earning if…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:02:38 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73051#post73051</link>
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						<blockquote><p>The Icelandic government is refusing to guarantee British deposits and in response Gordon Brown is threatening to use anti-<strong>terrorism</strong> legislation to freeze Icelandic assets in Britain. It does make things here seem quite sedate.</p></blockquote><p>I don't think that word means what they think it means.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 16:01:37 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73049#post73049</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Passing character judgements on real people on the basis of what you think they earn is extremely hazardous, whether you're talking about beneficiaries or highly-paid knowledge-workers.</p></blockquote><p>Indeed it is.  But that's not what I'm doing.  Meanwhile your (and others) preciousness is obscuring rather than aiding the discussion.</p><p>BTW, for the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:58:39 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73048#post73048</link>
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						<blockquote><p>And when a party proposes policies with the primary aim of enriching its supporters at the expense of the majority of New Zealanders or of future generations, that's not something we should politiely look the other way on.</p></blockquote><p>See, I doubt 'primary aim' there. That might be a side effect…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:53:30 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73047#post73047</link>
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						<p>Meanwhile, <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/10/banking-iceland" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">British police authories and councils have a billion quid sunk in Iceland's failed banks</a>.</p><p>The Icelandic government is refusing to guarantee British deposits and in response Gordon Brown is threatening to use anti-terrorism legislation to freeze Icelandic assets in Britain. It does make things here seem quite sedate.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:49:26 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>FletcherB</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73046#post73046</link>
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						<blockquote><p>As well, anyone presently receiving Working for Families tax cuts (or any government assistance) will not qualify for the Nats tax cuts.</p></blockquote><p>Are you 100% sure on that?</p><p>My reading suggests the Nat tax package is made up of two elements....<br />1) changes to rates and thresholds<br />2) the "independant…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:49:22 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73045#post73045</link>
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						<p>Meanwhile in unrelated news, <a href="http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/10/the_rimutakas.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">roaming fuckwits proudly deface hoardings</a>.</p><blockquote><p>We have debated whether a before and after photo of a hoarding would constitute enough proof for convictions. We reckon it may, so will limit ourselves to just taking photos of ones already altered.</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:48:02 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Lyndon Hood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73044#post73044</link>
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						<blockquote><p>It's worse than you think. National plans to cut employer contributions to 2 per cent and abolish the employer tax credit and it will also cut the government contribution (member tax credit) to 2 per cent.</p></blockquote><p>And, I get the impression, let your employer count their contribution against your wages…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:47:38 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Eddie Clark</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73041#post73041</link>
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						I/S:  Fair enough, and I take the point.  You <strong>do</strong>, however, more than occasionally make statements that sound an awful lot like sweeping character judgements on the basis of said demographic trends.  If I'm misinterpreting, I do apologise.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:43:47 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73040#post73040</link>
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						<blockquote><p>You run counter to the demographic trend. Whoopee for you.</p></blockquote><p>I think Russell hints that many of us here may run counter to the prevailing pattern.  That's a whole lotta whoopee..</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:41:54 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73037#post73037</link>
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						Eddie: I'm not dismissing you as a right-winger.  I'm not talking about you at all.  I'm talking about demographics, not individuals.  And without saying anything at all about what any particular individual thinks, we can quite validly say that there are demographic correlations in voting patterns.  Looking at income, National…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:38:37 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73036#post73036</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Dismiss this as "eat the rich" if you want &ndash; but its being willfully blind to a serious threat to our way of life, and one of our most powerful long-term political dynamics.</p></blockquote><p>Passing character judgements on real people on the basis of what you think they earn is extremely…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:38:12 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jan Farr</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73034#post73034</link>
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						<p>Yamis</p><blockquote><p>Does anybody have any idea if they match whatever I put into it (up to say 4% like now) ? or if they will chuck in 2% and leave me to take my pick with how much I put in?</p></blockquote><p>It's worse than you think.  National plans to cut…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:35:55 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73031#post73031</link>
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						<p>Fair point, Deborah &ndash; and I'm not wedded to any particular way of delivering it.  </p><p>I didn't notice Key saying he had a different plan for encouraging R&amp;D other than a head-in-sand moment where he claimed that business will just magically do that (like they've been doing for so long).  </p><p>I'd…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:28:03 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Deborah</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73024#post73024</link>
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						<blockquote><p>I'm with Lucy that R&amp;D is an obvious exception where I'd like to see far more co-investment so we benefit from shifting rapidly to a high-value economy.</p></blockquote><p>Sure, but the big question is how to deliver it.  Why are you assuming that a tax credit is the better way to go?</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:09:10 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Eddie Clark</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73021#post73021</link>
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						<p>I/S, listen, please, instead of lecturing.</p><p>I, and many others over the average wage, benefit from National's proposed tax cuts.</p><p>I, and many others over the average wage, do not vote for National.</p><p>Dismissing all in the above group as evil right wingers who are out only for themselves and…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:58:58 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>David Ritchie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73019#post73019</link>
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						Has anybody asked Key how big his tax cut will be?
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:58:17 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73017#post73017</link>
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						<blockquote><p>We all love and respect I/S and we strive to forgive him his "eat the rich" moments.</p></blockquote><p>There is a serious point here: politics, particularly around tax and employment relations policy, is fundamentally about distribution, about who gets what.  And when a party proposes policies with the primary aim of…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:45:31 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Eddie Clark</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73016#post73016</link>
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						<blockquote>Maybe we could personalise it &ndash; the PM makes $375K a year &ndash; Key wants the job and he wants a 6% tax cut on income over ~75k &ndash; that means that under a National govt the PM will be getting 6% more on $300k of their income &ndash; $18,000…</blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:45:20 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sacha</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73014#post73014</link>
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						<blockquote><p>ask the business lobbyists why the only form of welfare they never have any problem with is corporate</p></blockquote><p>Yes, I'm tired of the constant bleating from business reps about red tape in the face of consistent evidence that we have less of it than nearly every other country they could…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:42:26 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Edward  Siddle</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73009#post73009</link>
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				<description><![CDATA[
						I was on the Sunshine Coast last week and there was actually a road sign (an official one) in Mooloolaba which said "no hooning".  so obviously a well understood and in-current-use word in Oz.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:29:16 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73008#post73008</link>
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						<blockquote><p>But: run it through the MMP calculator and see the results: Nat 52, Lab 48, Greens 11, Maori 4-7, ACT 4, Progs and UF 1 each. Its a three-way coalition either way, with the Maori Party as kingmakers (and ACT as the other partner in their menage a trois).</p></blockquote><p>Really…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:28:58 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73007#post73007</link>
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						<blockquote><p><em>...so he can give a great stonking tax cut to his rich mates.</em></p><p>Is that sort of rhetoric really helpful? I earn somewhere close to the top tax bracket and yet...</p></blockquote><p>We all love and respect I/S and we strive to forgive him his "eat the rich" moments.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:23:03 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Rich of Observationz</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73004#post73004</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Nat 52, Lab 48, Greens 11, Maori 4-7, ACT 4, Progs and UF 1</p></blockquote><p>Now if Hide loses Epsom that would put a further complexion on things:<br />Lab 48 / Green 11 / Prog 1 = 60 votes.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:14:06 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73002#post73002</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Maybe she'd had a heads-up on the new Roy Morgan poll.</p><p>Um, wow.</p></blockquote><p>I thought Roy Morgan was a nasty foreign organisation with dodgy methodology and a long run of rogue polls?  Still, does show that not releasing any policy and sticking to headline-grabbing 'reallocations' is doing the trick.  Perhaps.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:09:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=73001#post73001</link>
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						<p>Eddie &ndash; I'm in the same boat and mostly agree with you (I don't mind paying tax, I think it's a civic responsibility) &ndash; but I think it's a fair comment &ndash; the well off make out with this big time because of the 39->33% tax cut</p><p>Maybe we could…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:09:21 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Tom Semmens</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72999#post72999</link>
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						Jason: I think the U.S. style culture war waged against labour by the likes of Family First, Sensible Sentencing etc etc over the last three years has managed to put doubt into the minds of a lot of traditional Labour supporters, moving some of them into disengaged no voters, undecided…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:06:32 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Bob Munro</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72992#post72992</link>
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						On the evidence of the video you could give 5 year olds the vote and still be confident you hadn't reduced the reasoning power of the electorate as a whole.
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:53:51 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sam F</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72991#post72991</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72991#post72991</guid>
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						<p>More from the Herald...</p><p>It appears that ACT have a <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&amp;objectid=10536680" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">new weapon</a> in the electoral battle for hearts and minds.</p><p>All hope is lost.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:52:29 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Eddie Clark</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72990#post72990</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72990#post72990</guid>
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						<p>I/S:</p><blockquote><p>...so he can give a great stonking tax cut to his rich mates.</p></blockquote><p>Is that sort of rhetoric really helpful?  I earn somewhere close to the top tax bracket and yet...</p><p>I didn't ask for a tax cut.  I don't need a tax cut.  I'd be happy to pay…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:51:10 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72986#post72986</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72986#post72986</guid>
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						<p>Steve: <a href="http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2007/06/lowering-voting-age.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">I agree entirely</a></p><p>And it would be interesting to know how today's children feel about John Key saddling them with debt so he can give a great stonking tax cut to his rich mates.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:40:59 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Parks</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72985#post72985</link>
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						<blockquote><p>But seriously: stupid people have interests to, and they are just as deserving of representation.</p></blockquote><p>People under 18 years of age have interests too, and are deseving of representation.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:36:37 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Evan Yates</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72984#post72984</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72984#post72984</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>the hoons (a venerable kiwi word sadly fallen on tough times)</p></blockquote><p>I once submitted a movie review of "Goodbye Pork Pie" to IMDb using the term <strong>hoon</strong> to describe Gerry (Blondini 1). <br />The yankee editors changed it to <strong>goon</strong>, and there didn't seem to be any way to get it…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:36:27 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72982#post72982</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72982#post72982</guid>
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						I spent many of my teenage geek Saturday nights in Brockville in the 70s ripping off signals from weather satellites &ndash; it was just us and the hoons (a venerable kiwi word sadly fallen on tough times)
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:31:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jason Kemp</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72981#post72981</link>
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						<p>@Tom lets hope so </p><p>Are there any punters expecting Green to get past 6% &ndash; maybe even higher if it gets too hard to vote L but want some alternative to the lack of insight or leadership from Nats?</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:30:45 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72979#post72979</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72979#post72979</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Which they so richly deserve. It was great to see John Collie (not to be confused with John Kelcher ;) ) wearing a "Brockville Brotherhood" t-shirt (said location being the working-class Dunedin suburb he and Carter grew up in).</p></blockquote><p>As immortalised in R.E.M.'s little-known Dunedin music tribute 'Don't Go Back…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:27:48 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Tom Semmens</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72977#post72977</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72977#post72977</guid>
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						Hmmmm... Maybe everyone who is going to vote National is already voting National and has been for the last couple of years, whilst Labour is now hoovering back up the previously uncounted undecideds?
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:25:04 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jason Kemp</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72976#post72976</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72976#post72976</guid>
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						<p>Thank goodness for alternative views. </p><p>I've even tried to make sense of the finance thing myself <br /><a href="http://www.dialogcrm.com/blog/2008/10/10/new-business-paradigm-needed/ " target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> new paradigm needed</a> </p><p>The best analysis has come from Robin Blackburn over at NewLeft</p><p><a href="http://www.newleftreview.org/?page=article&amp;view=2715 " target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> subprime history and analysis</a> </p><p>Despite all that I must say for once I agree with the experts…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:25:03 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72975#post72975</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72975#post72975</guid>
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						yeah &ndash; if you want to stop stupid people from voting you have to educate them and make them not-stupid
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:24:54 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Grant McDougall</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72974#post72974</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72974#post72974</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>...the Straitjacket Fits guys after they received the Legacy Award...</p></blockquote><p>Which they so richly deserve. It was great to see John Collie (not to be confused with John Kelcher ;) ) wearing a "Brockville Brotherhood" t-shirt (said location being the working-class Dunedin suburb he and Carter grew up in).</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:17:40 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Emma Hart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72973#post72973</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72973#post72973</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>So many arguments for a quick intelligence/current affairs test before you are allowed to vote.</p></blockquote><p>I've just read a long blog post from a friend where she analysed both candidates based on her criteria. In conclusion, McCain looks like a chipmonk, and Obama's ears and teeth are too big, ergo…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:16:49 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72971#post72971</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72971#post72971</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>So many arguments for a quick intelligence/current affairs test before you are allowed to vote.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah.  Because that has worked <em>so</em> well in the US before (for the ignorant, it was used to stop black people from voting).</p><p>But seriously: stupid people have interests to, and they are just as…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:04:35 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72970#post72970</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72970#post72970</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Maybe she'd had a heads-up on the new Roy Morgan poll.</p></blockquote><p>Caveats: two week polling period, systematic overstatement of the Greens blah blah blah.</p><p>But: run it through the MMP calculator and see the results: Nat 52, Lab 48, Greens 11, Maori 4-7, ACT 4, Progs and UF 1 each.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:03:04 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72969#post72969</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72969#post72969</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Oh, and just for something completely different, a citizen journalist captures the bigotry and knuckle-dragging stupidity of punters at a Sarah Palin campaign rally</p></blockquote><p>So many arguments for a quick intelligence/current affairs test before you are allowed to vote.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:57:43 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72967#post72967</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72967#post72967</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>On Wednesday night, before she went to the Music Awards, she was at the Auckland Kindergarten Association's centennial celebrations, and she was happy there too.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe she'd had a heads-up on <a href="http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2008/4327/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">the new Roy Morgan poll</a>.</p><p>Um, <em>wow</em>.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:47:25 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>mic weevil</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72965#post72965</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72965#post72965</guid>
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						<p><i>"pardon?"</i></p><p>is that your justice policy russel?</p><p>zero tolerance for herald editors!</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:38:49 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72964#post72964</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72964#post72964</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Here is exclusive fly-on-the-wall coverage of Tim Murphy writing this morning's editorial:</p></blockquote><p>Brilliant! Citizen journalism is getting so <em>good</em> these days.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:36:32 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Gareth Ward</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72962#post72962</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72962#post72962</guid>
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						<p>Yamis &ndash; you put in 4%, the employer will only have to put in 2%.  That's the most they will be required to (and lets be honest, most employers are going to stop right there). </p><p>And there already is a 2+2% scheme in place (2% from you, 2% from your…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:32:42 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Rowe</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72959#post72959</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72959#post72959</guid>
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						<p>Here is exclusive fly-on-the-wall coverage of Tim Murphy writing this morning's editorial:</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ADTPYAEi80" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ADTPYAEi80</a></p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:25:00 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Evan Yates</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72957#post72957</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72957#post72957</guid>
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						<p>@Craig</p><blockquote><p>As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't mind the business community being told to take their begging bowls and fuck off &ndash; just once.</p></blockquote><p>Unfortunately the ones now with their begging bowls out pay the salaries of a lot of the downtrodden masses.</p><p>I'm not really smart/rutheless/brave enough to go…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:18:25 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Lucy Stewart</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72956#post72956</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72956#post72956</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>I'm with you on this one, Craig. The free market ain't so free anymore, but comes at a cost to taxpayers and wage earners?</p></blockquote><p>OTOH: if you want to keep people with degrees here, especially science/eng/tech degrees, you've got to persuade companies to do their R&amp;D here, rather than overseas. In…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:14:28 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Sam F</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72955#post72955</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72955#post72955</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>a citizen journalist captures the bigotry and knuckle-dragging stupidity of punters at a Sarah Palin campaign rally</p></blockquote><p>I can't bring myself to click on that video, and the sad thing is I don't really need to. We've been living through the results of such people's voting decisions for at least…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:13:50 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>David Cormack</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72954#post72954</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72954#post72954</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>it has been conceived in a lonely hotel room under an accusing naked bulb.</p></blockquote><p>That is my favourite sentence I have read in weeks.</p><p>As a PR man, that has me in awe. Kudos.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:12:41 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Steve Barnes</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72953#post72953</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72953#post72953</guid>
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						Media 7 was a bit of an eye opener for many I believe. The tie up between Fontera and the fertiliser industry could have been covered a little deeper in my view. The Probitas story is still interesting in that it shows a connection not only between Fed. Farmers and…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:12:06 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Yamis</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72952#post72952</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72952#post72952</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>And having said that, have a nice weekend folks. Going to Taupo tomorrow for a family birthday party, and we're staying somewhere with no radio, no television and a five mile walk if you're mad enough to want a newspaper.</p></blockquote><p>Say "hi" to Samwise Gamgee for me.</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:10:44 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Yamis</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72951#post72951</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72951#post72951</guid>
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						<p>Can somebody help me out here?</p><blockquote><p>National will:<br />·         Reduce the minimum contributions demanded of employees. From April next year, the minimum contribution rate for employees in KiwiSaver will be 2% of gross salary.  Employers will also be required to make minimum contributions of 2% of gross salary, for each…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:07:35 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Geoff Lealand</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72950#post72950</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72950#post72950</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>To play devil's advocate for a moment, how about someone having the balls to ask the business lobbyists why the only form of welfare they never have any problem with is corporate welfare pointed at their beneficiary-members?</p></blockquote><p>I'm with you on this one, Craig.  The free market ain't so free…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:06:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Jackie Clark</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72948#post72948</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-rationalisation-is-at-hand/?p=72948#post72948</guid>
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						<blockquote>Helen Clark, on the other hand, seems to have had a happier week,</blockquote> On Wednesday night, before she went to the Music Awards, she was at the Auckland Kindergarten Association's centennial celebrations, and she was happy there too. And well informed. She made a great speech about the value of…
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				<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:03:33 +1300</pubDate>
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