Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Privacy and the Public Interest https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/ en-us Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324940#post324940 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324940#post324940 ...and Key does seem to have a dose of the 'fear'
– otherwise why would he lash out so...?

It's like the 'Evening Noose' not the news each night
tightening, tightening, tightening...

]]> Wed, 17 Sept 2014 06:25:28 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324930#post324930 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324930#post324930 Wed, 17 Sept 2014 00:45:03 +1200 Trevor Nicholls https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324928#post324928 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324928#post324928 Defenders and enablers everywhere:
“Innocent people have nothing to worry about.”


Privacy and secrecy are not the same thing.

Cory Doctorow

]]> Wed, 17 Sept 2014 00:07:44 +1200 Jack Harrison https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324860#post324860 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324860#post324860 Its great to have fresh media eyes on this issue. GIS article is well written.

"New Zealand is a small country, with a population of less than five million, situated in the far reaches of the southern hemisphere....

]]> Tue, 16 Sept 2014 18:31:28 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324859#post324859 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324859#post324859 Tue, 16 Sept 2014 18:27:46 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324855#post324855 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324855#post324855 Was the High Court able to consider Cameron Slater’s leaked mailbox in this decision?

Just reading the judgement:

[3] Recently, some time after the hearing, Mr Blomfield has sought to produce further evidence, arising from the publication of the book Dirty Politics by Nicky Hager, and various email exchanges.
[4]…

]]> Tue, 16 Sept 2014 18:14:56 +1200 Trevor Nicholls https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324380#post324380 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324380#post324380 Two eyes good, five eyes bad

Eyes on New Zealand

Thanks Russell for the link

]]> Sun, 14 Sept 2014 20:32:06 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324368#post324368 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324368#post324368 Applause….
Shucks, thanks for that ArrowmakerB.
I'm all aquiver with delight
but humbly...

Truth be told I just run a flock of 64 puns
by rotating, recycling & reconfiguring
usually one of them will play in
any given situation, every
little thing is ductile
when massaging
the message,
& torquing
the talk.…

]]> Sun, 14 Sept 2014 18:59:20 +1200 startswithj https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324354#post324354 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324354#post324354 So Slater is a political vehicle, bribed, fed information used to facilitate certain perceptions and results for monetary gain, is completely bias, and is also a journalist.
If the judiciary decided that, the standard of NZ news reporting is a bit of a worry.

]]> Sun, 14 Sept 2014 16:55:50 +1200 FletcherB https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324208#post324208 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324208#post324208 a land of consonant sorrow?

Dear Mr Dalziel...
I just want to say that you and your constant puns are one of the absolute best reasons for hanging around here at Public Address...

Many people around here are funny, (I try my own hand at times), but you Sir, are…

]]> Sat, 13 Sept 2014 19:13:10 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324206#post324206 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324206#post324206 ...sttt lw s nt th lw f th lnd
a land of consonant sorrow?

]]> Sat, 13 Sept 2014 19:02:30 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324199#post324199 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324199#post324199 Sat, 13 Sept 2014 17:26:59 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324196#post324196 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324196#post324196 Sat, 13 Sept 2014 17:12:05 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324172#post324172 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324172#post324172 This is also the third thread he’s tried to drag this increasingly irrelevant troll on to. If people could just go on not engaging, that’d be great.
I ws bnnd frm Th Stndrd fr tlkng bt ths. Smlr cntxt t, tlkng bt hw sttt lw s nt th lw f…

]]> Sat, 13 Sept 2014 13:53:18 +1200 Chris Waugh https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324156#post324156 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324156#post324156 Sat, 13 Sept 2014 12:42:04 +1200 Emma Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324155#post324155 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324155#post324155 Insisting on dragging words back to definitions that have not been in use for a very long time is a form of redefining language. Please stop.

This is also the third thread he's tried to drag this increasingly irrelevant troll on to. If people could just go on not engaging,…

]]> Sat, 13 Sept 2014 12:33:49 +1200 Chris Waugh https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324154#post324154 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324154#post324154 Insisting on dragging words back to definitions that have not been in use for a very long time is a form of redfining language. Please stop.

You personally find secular oaths repugnant. That's your problem. Everybody else sees nothing hypocritical in swearing an oath that does not reference a deity.…

]]> Sat, 13 Sept 2014 12:30:51 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324147#post324147 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324147#post324147 No way is the nationwide median house price $500k. It might be that in & around Auckland but not ‘down country’.

I wasn't actually talking about the median price – a median can't be used in the way I used it, to find a total value. I meant the mean, and…

]]> Sat, 13 Sept 2014 11:33:25 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324121#post324121 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324121#post324121 Unfortunately I hit the paywall for "Baron Parke Rises From the Dead".

The thing that I really like about the golden rule is that it refutes the mantra that statute law overrides common law. Also, as can be seen from his history, Parke didn't approve of parliament fucking with the…

]]> Sat, 13 Sept 2014 08:53:44 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324120#post324120 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324120#post324120 Parke's recreation...
the golden rule of statutory interpretation
(Baron Parke’s rule)
aaah!
The original Well Read Baron!
Lord Wensleydale himself...
Say Cheese!

Perhaps of passing interest:
Baron Parke Rises From the Dead

Other dramatis personae:
The Black Stone
or is it Blackstone
more likely Bill Blackstone
his ratio lives…

]]> Sat, 13 Sept 2014 08:31:45 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324115#post324115 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324115#post324115 Calling older definitions of words “true” and newer understandings of the meanings of those words “hollow” then muttering about redefinitions as attempts to promote -isms really is just the etymological fallacy.

"Muttering about -isms" LOL

Attempting to redefine language can be a form of fraud. This issue is addresed by…

]]> Sat, 13 Sept 2014 07:13:07 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324114#post324114 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324114#post324114 "Was the High Court able to consider Cameron Slater’s leaked mailbox in this decision?"

Not unless it was introduced as evidence by either side.

This is a good examnple of how the NZ legal system fails. At common law the jury is responisble for findings of fact, and originally this…

]]> Sat, 13 Sept 2014 07:03:23 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324111#post324111 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324111#post324111 I really couldn't quite believe that when I read it. I did have occasion in the past to go to his blog and from what I have seen there, facts and honesty were not highly visible. It just seemed like a lot of over-opinionated and hate-filled rhetoric.

If the Oily…

]]> Sat, 13 Sept 2014 01:08:24 +1200 Trevor Nicholls https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324103#post324103 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324103#post324103 Fri, 12 Sept 2014 23:13:07 +1200 Dismal Soyanz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324100#post324100 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324100#post324100 “The style of journalism may be criticised and can be dramatic and abusive, but the expression is vigorous and coherent, and there is no evidence provided to this Court of consistent inaccuracy or deceit (although there is evidence of consistent hyperbole).”

I really couldn't quite believe that when I read…

]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 22:49:27 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324089#post324089 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324089#post324089 sums up Whale Oil Beef Hooked. But I guess it wasn’t the role of the plaintiff to prove that? He got what he wanted: Slater forced to reveal his source.

It's a step in the right direction. And there's still hope with the [[http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/253543/second-call-for-collins-police-probe|criminal charges filed of perverting the course…

]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 21:36:40 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324086#post324086 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324086#post324086 Was the High Court able to consider Cameron Slater’s leaked mailbox in this decision?

Not unless it was introduced as evidence by either side.

]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 21:32:06 +1200 Stewart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324084#post324084 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324084#post324084 BTW not arguing against a CGT as I think it is an excellent idea and long overdue.
Public misconceptions about it are rife, and promulgated by National-aligned sources, but it is a bloody good impost against the current housing bubble.

]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 21:23:03 +1200 Stewart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324083#post324083 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324083#post324083 No way is the nationwide median house price $500k. It might be that in & around Auckland but not 'down country'.

Not sure how much difference it will make to your figures, but I would hazard a nationwide median price of closer to $375k.

]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 21:20:30 +1200 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324082#post324082 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324082#post324082 consistent inaccuracy and deceit sums up Whale Oil Beef Hooked. But I guess it wasn’t the role of the plaintiff to prove that? He got what he wanted: Slater forced to reveal his source. ]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 21:14:20 +1200 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324081#post324081 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324081#post324081 Back on Russell's original topic — Russell said: Next month, when Slater's earlier privacy case comes back to court, it's likely that the prosecution will seek discovery of correspondence that rebutts his claim that he is a journalist, rather than someone who is paid to defame.

And from Stuff today:…

]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 21:05:39 +1200 Dismal Soyanz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324021#post324021 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324021#post324021 True and I'd add the the actual imposition of CGT was shrugged off in Australia. I'd also just say watch out for Black swans.

And just to return to the OT (sorta), even when the evidence seems overwhelming, there are plenty of people who will still think differently.

]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 14:56:16 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324010#post324010 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324010#post324010 Fri, 12 Sept 2014 14:20:54 +1200 Dismal Soyanz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324005#post324005 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=324005#post324005 data on lending to households says housing related lending was running at $190 billion as of March this year. The value of the housing stock was $725 billion as of March. ]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 14:10:17 +1200 Dismal Soyanz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323990#post323990 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323990#post323990 I don’t even know how to find out how much of that trillion in houses is debt.

There’s a few places to look. There are surveys on household wealth and, of course, RBNZ data on residential mortgages. I’ll post some links later.

I don’t think taking a fair tax on…

]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 13:26:16 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323982#post323982 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323982#post323982 Fri, 12 Sept 2014 13:05:52 +1200 Dismal Soyanz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323962#post323962 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323962#post323962 Well, and there’s a lot of people who can’t see that their house won’t be subject to CGT. They think it’s something they have to pay. It’s not. So to that end I don’t think it’s likely to really make much of a dent in prices.

Not directly but given…

]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 12:03:45 +1200 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323904#post323904 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323904#post323904 What it does do is make something fair which currently isn’t, that people making capital gains don’t pay tax on them.
This is undersold. Much of the dialogue around an increasing gap between rich and poor centres on ‘income’. As such it’s based on the data around taxable income.
Which…

]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 09:46:21 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323895#post323895 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323895#post323895 There are a lot of people out there who can see no further than that, who cannot see the housing market is already too bubbly, or who cannot mentally treat their house as if it were a place to live rather than an asset to be valued in dollar terms… ]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 09:10:55 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323875#post323875 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323875#post323875 There are a lot of people out there who can see no further than that, who cannot see the housing market is already too bubbly, or who cannot mentally treat their house as if it were a place to live rather than an asset to be valued in dollar terms… ]]> Fri, 12 Sept 2014 03:24:39 +1200 Dismal Soyanz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323835#post323835 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323835#post323835 That they’ll lose their houses?

In a way, yes. I think that National are trying to convince people that a CGT will mean that the equity they have in their houses will go down. And given the over-obsession we have with owning a house in this country, any reduction in…

]]> Thu, 11 Sept 2014 18:28:14 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323822#post323822 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323822#post323822 Yes, but a surprising number of people appear to think that it is in the public interest to protect and elect the National government by any means available.

What do they think will happen if Key loses? That they'll lose their houses?

]]> Thu, 11 Sept 2014 17:18:53 +1200 Trevor Nicholls https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323817#post323817 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323817#post323817 Thu, 11 Sept 2014 16:46:44 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323808#post323808 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323808#post323808 I’m cool with media having to withhold Slater material unless it’s in the public interest

They would never have published the personal stuff anyway – and he knows it.

]]> Thu, 11 Sept 2014 16:02:30 +1200 Trevor Nicholls https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323799#post323799 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323799#post323799 Thu, 11 Sept 2014 15:03:51 +1200 Paul Rowe https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323773#post323773 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323773#post323773 Speaking of a vibrant 4th Estate:

http://www.theguardian.com/membership/2014/sep/10/-sp-guardian-editor-alan-rusbridger-welcome-to-guardian-membership

]]> Thu, 11 Sept 2014 11:40:37 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323772#post323772 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323772#post323772 Slater now requesting material held by each media organisation is a first step to injuncting specific stories. They know that.

The identity of Slater's funder/s may influence which stories are the focus of such action..

]]> Thu, 11 Sept 2014 11:39:58 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323771#post323771 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323771#post323771 Thu, 11 Sept 2014 11:38:36 +1200 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323769#post323769 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323769#post323769 Thu, 11 Sept 2014 11:31:00 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323768#post323768 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323768#post323768 lawyering up and defending themselves against legal action

takes time. that's the tactic.

]]> Thu, 11 Sept 2014 11:27:28 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323766#post323766 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323766#post323766 Thu, 11 Sept 2014 11:26:27 +1200 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323764#post323764 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323764#post323764 Those outlets are being stifled from publishing by continued legal action and their own corporate caution.

Oh, pardon me if I can't must too many crocodile tears for large media corporations who don't appear to have any problem whatsoever lawyering up and defending themselves against legal action — which, you…

]]> Thu, 11 Sept 2014 11:21:15 +1200 Sacha https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323759#post323759 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323759#post323759 If 3 news, the NZ Herald and Fairfax are restricted from reporting issues that could be considered to be within the public interest, where does it stop?

Those outlets are being stifled from publishing by continued legal action and their own corporate caution. Whose interests are served by doing that…

]]> Thu, 11 Sept 2014 11:01:29 +1200 Craig Ranapia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323758#post323758 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323758#post323758 If 3 news, the NZ Herald and Fairfax are restricted from reporting issues that could be considered to be within the public interest, where does it stop?

I could flip the question and ask if you've got any problems with court-ordered name suppression — a restriction responsible media outlets and…

]]> Thu, 11 Sept 2014 10:46:40 +1200 startswithj https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323753#post323753 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323753#post323753 Thu, 11 Sept 2014 10:13:57 +1200 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323490#post323490 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323490#post323490 Should have said this a while ago, but can we take this to the other thread where it's at least barely relevant.
Thank God! (Hopefully I'm not blaspheming there). ;-)

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 22:15:24 +1200 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323438#post323438 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323438#post323438 As I've posted on the Dirty Politics thread, if you want to be part of an ad in the Herald demanding a clean up, have a look here
http://www.actionstation.org.nz/support_democracy_letter?utm_campaign=democracy_sign&utm_medium=email&utm_source=actionstation

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 17:05:24 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323396#post323396 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323396#post323396 other thread where it's at least barely relevant. ]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 12:13:01 +1200 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323389#post323389 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323389#post323389 Language changes, that’s a simple historical fact. The meanings of words change as part of that, as can be seen in the multitudes of definitions listed for each word in dictionaries.
Have been listening to this on long jouneys, fascinating stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPgeDXUitDk

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 10:51:52 +1200 Chris Waugh https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323386#post323386 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323386#post323386 No, it’s more about ambiguity in language.

No, it's not.

For the sake of argument let’s call the early definition a true oath, and a promise that does not call deity to witness, but is still called an oath, a hollow oath.

[......]

the attempted redefinition of language as a…

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 10:37:34 +1200 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323385#post323385 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323385#post323385 Whoever is in charge of their website is doing some good stuff. I liked this.

Me too, it's what we need a lot more of and it should be boldly displayed.

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 10:21:16 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323384#post323384 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323384#post323384 No, it’s more about ambiguity in language.

The idea of the oath is not particularly ambiguous. It's not important who it is to. What is important is that you swear it. Then you can get busted for lying under oath. That makes courtrooms places where people fear to be caught…

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 10:12:02 +1200 James Francis https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323373#post323373 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323373#post323373 Tue, 09 Sept 2014 09:12:30 +1200 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323371#post323371 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323371#post323371 It was directly linked on the front page until early voting came up.

Excellent, thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for.

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 09:08:11 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323360#post323360 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323360#post323360 Radio NZ ... is doing some good stuff. I liked this.
+1
I'll make sure to share that link.

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 08:19:29 +1200 Dismal Soyanz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323358#post323358 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323358#post323358 Also RadioNZ has a page

Whoever is in charge of their website is doing some good stuff. I liked this.

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 08:09:32 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323352#post323352 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323352#post323352 Ah, the old etymological fallacy.
No, it's more about ambiguity in language. For the sake of argument let's call the early definition a true oath, and a promise that does not call deity to witness, but is still called an oath, a hollow oath. Someone who makes a hollow oath…

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 07:55:23 +1200 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323347#post323347 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323347#post323347 here ]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 07:34:25 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323344#post323344 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323344#post323344 Taking it further, I’m not even sure where to look for official info about who’s even standing as a candidate in my electorate… short of turning up at the polling booth and reading the options on the ballot paper. Is there somewhere?

Also RadioNZ has a page

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 07:21:24 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323342#post323342 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323342#post323342 Be warned, though, that some (not all) technical writing positions[**] and many (probably not all?) testing positions do involve nontrivial amounts of coding.

I have some coding knowledge – HTML I don't mind, dabbled in PHP years back, had a crash course in .NET C# as a side part of…

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 03:18:34 +1200 tussock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323341#post323341 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323341#post323341 Taking it further, I'm not even sure where to look for official info about who's even standing as a candidate in my electorate... short of turning up at the polling booth and reading the options on the ballot paper. Is there somewhere?

It was directly linked on the front page…

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 02:09:29 +1200 Amy Gale https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323338#post323338 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323338#post323338 I’m keen to learn, and I seem to learn best at my own pace or on the job. But the old job-experience catch-22 continues to raise its ugly head. I’d be the ideal candidate for an ICT apprenticeship if they ever get implemented.

One option for gaining tech writing experience…

]]> Tue, 09 Sept 2014 01:44:19 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323337#post323337 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323337#post323337 Tue, 09 Sept 2014 00:25:02 +1200 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323334#post323334 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323334#post323334 Sometimes I even question if ICT is even the right career path for me, if it’s effectively shut out to trainees.

I don't think it's shut out to trainees. If you're straight out of a training course, companies like Xero or Datacom or Intergen (just a few I can think…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 23:50:50 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323331#post323331 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323331#post323331 Knowing people in the industry often helps, sadly, and if you can figure out where to apply directly for an ICT job, definitely go that way rather than through an agency.

Too bloody right. On the surface of it, it comes across as something of a closed shop. I'm hoping…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 23:31:27 +1200 Chris Waugh https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323319#post323319 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323319#post323319 Note how the pro-civil law definitions differ from the early definitions:

Ah, the old etymological fallacy.

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 22:06:06 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323303#post323303 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323303#post323303 The atheism of the civil law is widespread

Thank God! (I'm not actually literally thanking God).

Jurare est Deum

Yodagu adagare WRODAGONG! #$%&! 45. Imp. Doc. Elseif {ASSERT!=FACT}

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 20:14:45 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323299#post323299 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323299#post323299 Yes, I certainly can.
No, you definitely can't.

The atheism of the civil law is widespread, and will in some cases misrepresent the facts, eg Merriam Webster, (the US opposed the theism of the common law from the time of the founding fathers), and Oxford, which was an early adopter…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 19:20:21 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323283#post323283 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323283#post323283 . All NZ government jobs are always listed here (though that’s mostly Wellington for ICT stuff),

It's a good theory, but it doesn't always happen, even though there was a Cabinet Directive that it be required. It shouldn't be ignored but don't neglect other avenues. Knowing people on the inside…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 18:02:12 +1200 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323279#post323279 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323279#post323279 Generally people advertising jobs ask for their ideal candidate and then hire the best they can find; who will almost certainly be missing a range of things they want, but will have convinced the interviewer that they can learn them.

As a software dev I’ll second this where ICT many…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 17:35:07 +1200 Rich of Observationz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323276#post323276 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323276#post323276 Which is why those giving evidence in court, or in any other analogous process, have the opportunity to affirm, and have done since 1695.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2006/0069/latest/DLM393905.html

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 17:19:24 +1200 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323275#post323275 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323275#post323275 it’s going backwards on some important measures and obsession with a strongly neoliberal flavour of it is majorly contributing to that, and we can probably look forward to quite a few more years before that winds up.
And here I was hoping for some optimism :)

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 17:13:59 +1200 Stephen R https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323273#post323273 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323273#post323273 When I look at the ICT jobs advertised on places like Seek, they insist on several years’ experience with the right ‘tools’.

My experience with this, from both sides of the interviewing table, is that for developers at least, there is a dearth of people with exactly the right skills.…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 17:00:36 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323268#post323268 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323268#post323268 Sorry but capitalism is, at the moment, standing in the way of change

OK, fair enough, I'm using the word very loosely, because it is a very loose word. By capitalism I'm really just meaning a system in which people's ownership of capital can be individual or in small groups.…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 16:25:57 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323257#post323257 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323257#post323257 It is. You can’t swear an oath without doing it.

Yes, I certainly can.
Merriam Webster definition:

"a formal and serious promise to tell the truth or to do something"

Oxford definition:

"A solemn promise, often invoking a divine witness, regarding one’s future action or behaviour"

and most other dictionaries…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 16:02:09 +1200 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323252#post323252 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323252#post323252 capitalism will morph into a better system. It could take a long bloody time, but I think it will. I’d rather it happened sooner than later and think we could take simple positive steps in that direction,
WE? I love the use of the collective word as if WE are…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 15:55:39 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323211#post323211 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323211#post323211 It really annoys me when politicians organise the economy so that wages stay low (by keeping a large enough pool of unemployed that low-skill workers are desperate to get minimum wage) and then castigate the unemployed for not having jobs.

There are new jobs being created such as in ICT,…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 13:30:36 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323210#post323210 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323210#post323210 No, not really.
It is. You can't swear an oath without doing it.

Jurare est Deum in testum vocare, et est actus divini cultus. To swear is to call God to witness, and is an act of religion. 3 Co. Inst. 165. Vide 3 Bouv. Inst. n. 3180, note; 1…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 13:27:32 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323207#post323207 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323207#post323207 Swearing an oath is essentially an act of calling deity to witness.

No, not really. It's making a strong promise, which you can maybe be held to. If you have to call a deity to witness, then it's by definition a religious thing.

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 13:13:22 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323205#post323205 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323205#post323205 You fundamentally misunderstand the meaning of secular.
Hows that?

The reference to God in common law precisely signifies that Christianity has special status. Ask any non-Christian who is asked to swear on a bible.
Swearing an oath is essentially an act of calling deity to witness. A non-Christian who wants…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 13:00:32 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323201#post323201 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323201#post323201 The reference to “God” in the common law is cultural, it doesn’t signify that Christianity has any special status at law.

You fundamentally misunderstand the meaning of secular. The reference to God in common law precisely signifies that Christianity has special status. Ask any non-Christian who is asked to swear…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 12:36:41 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323195#post323195 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323195#post323195 Mon, 08 Sept 2014 11:59:25 +1200 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323194#post323194 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323194#post323194 I just wanted to repeat this: It seems like a (relatively) simple thing that could be done to improve participation. I’m relatively well informed about politics, as I find it interesting, yet I constantly see how so and so had a town meeting in my area – always after the… ]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 11:49:14 +1200 ChrisW https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323190#post323190 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323190#post323190 Don't know if this helps and can't find web resource to back this up but I'm pretty sure that is a Wayne Youle (Māori artist) tee.

Yeah, I don't think it helps – context and all that – but thanks and to Joe Wylie for the suggestion.

Looks to me…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 11:19:07 +1200 Stephen R https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323188#post323188 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323188#post323188 It really annoys me when politicians organise the economy so that wages stay low (by keeping a large enough pool of unemployed that low-skill workers are desperate to get minimum wage) and then castigate the unemployed for not having jobs.

It just seems ... vindictive. Like blaming a bleeding accident…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 10:59:19 +1200 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323184#post323184 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323184#post323184 Most of the jobs I first had were ‘make-work’ schemes; student job schemes, and ‘PEP’ schemes. The jobs paid relatively well, and the dole wasn’t as financially tough, nor as filled with nastiness and petty obligations, as it is today.

‘PEP’ schemes were bankrolled by central government, and usually administered…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 10:21:43 +1200 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323182#post323182 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323182#post323182 David Graeber. ]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 10:12:02 +1200 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323181#post323181 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323181#post323181 a strongly coherent and credible plan to bring about a universal basic income.
With you on this. It's a way forward, when we keep looking backwards.
But when I were a lad, being on the dole was far less punitive than it is now. Unemployment was over 10% in the…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 10:08:27 +1200 JonathanM https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323180#post323180 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323180#post323180 How do people find out about these meetings? Am I meant to be buying the DomPost and reading each day’s Public Notices section? Some type of central database of public meetings which people can attend is something I thought the Electoral Commission, or similar, would be doing. Not as far… ]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 10:07:35 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323178#post323178 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323178#post323178

Basically, we have to move beyond the model that "productive" work should be the basis of social growth and personal value. We should still reward that kind of work, because otherwise it will not get done, but it should not be the basis upon which our survival, health and comfort…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 09:52:16 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323177#post323177 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323177#post323177 No repeat of the Great Depression, just a reset to the historic norm.

Right, but accompanied by a very, very long stagnation of all growth in the West. For the industrializing world, it's a time of progress. Good for them, but if inevitable, then also times that the already developed…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 09:51:55 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323176#post323176 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323176#post323176 You really, truly don't want non-secular laws. Because whichever sect they embody, there'll be several they oppress.
You're assuming that non-secular law implies adoption of a particular religious creed. The common law focuses on reason, not on faith, and develops a doctrine of natural rights from a philosophy which acknowledges…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 09:13:10 +1200 william blake https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323175#post323175 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323175#post323175 Mon, 08 Sept 2014 09:07:49 +1200 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323173#post323173 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323173#post323173 And she burbles on;
"I have not even seen that book. I don't know who is paying that bloke [Hager], but somebody must be paying him an awful lot."
OK Pamela piss off now.

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 07:34:57 +1200 Dismal Soyanz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323172#post323172 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323172#post323172 And today's lesson in irony comes to you from Stuff, in which

Judith Collins has been likened to Princess Diana by the embattled MP's older sister.

Hamilton's Pamela Cassidy says both women were "hounded" by media.

A bit soon for beatification, innit?

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 07:02:38 +1200 Rich Lock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323170#post323170 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323170#post323170 Related:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU


And this:

[It’s] about people who were worth less and who were no longer necessary, as maybe 10 or 15% of my country is no longer necessary to the operation of the economy. It was about them trying to solve, for lack of a better term, an existential…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 03:22:14 +1200 Rich Lock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323169#post323169 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323169#post323169 I don’t know. It could just slide and slide and slide. The Great Depression was very noticeable because most of the industrial output of the world came from Europe and the USA. But now that’s shifted substantially, and it could just be a sustained downturn that never stops, as industry… ]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 03:14:33 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323168#post323168 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323168#post323168 And I've posted this before, but the following words from Guardian commenter 'fistofonan' remain relevant.

__Sweet Jesus. No one is going to fix this mess, are they? No politician seems up to the job.

This week I heard a pefectly sensible guest on Radio 4's Moneybox, use the phrase "when…

]]> Mon, 08 Sept 2014 01:45:17 +1200 WH https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323164#post323164 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323164#post323164 Let's lose the hippo. ]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 23:48:48 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323163#post323163 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323163#post323163 The West slowly fades back into its historic role of less-important-than-it-likes-to-think western end of Eurasia, the USA becomes the new UK, the UK (quite possibly minus Scotland) becomes the new France, France becomes the new Netherlands or Spain or something, Spain and Portugal join Italy and Greece (if they haven't… ]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 23:38:26 +1200 Chris Waugh https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323158#post323158 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323158#post323158 But now that’s shifted substantially, and it could just be a sustained downturn that never stops, as industry shifts to the Third World, until labour prices stabilize.

Or Chinese exports to the West are replaced by domestic consumption, China's low-end, low-margin manufacturing shifts both inland and to Vietnam, Bangladesh, Sri…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 22:07:21 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323157#post323157 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323157#post323157 There were enough finance company collapses and people lost a lot of money that way. Large numbers of mortgagee sales from about 2008-11 too.

Indeed. But as bad as the finance company collapses were, they didn't take the 'boring' banks with them as happened in the States. And we haven't…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 21:53:04 +1200 Hilary Stace https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323156#post323156 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323156#post323156 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 21:19:25 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323154#post323154 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323154#post323154 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 20:42:47 +1200 Rich Lock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323153#post323153 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323153#post323153 You can easily have underemployment that is every bit as severe as unemployment, particularly when the wages are awful, and debt levels are high.

I don't disagree. 1 in 8 UK residents is counted as 'poor' (60% of median wage – around £11,000 p/a). Half of them are in paid…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 20:24:27 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323152#post323152 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323152#post323152 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 20:24:15 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323151#post323151 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323151#post323151 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 20:18:49 +1200 Rich Lock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323150#post323150 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323150#post323150 I think that our democratic system hasn’t stopped working. It’s just working to the natural limit of its current ability, and we have come to expect a lot more. It’s hit some kind of equilibrium, and so we can’t expect continual progress out of it.

There's a very interesting situation…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 20:10:46 +1200 Rich Lock https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323148#post323148 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323148#post323148 We’ve already had that, and it hasn’t worked.

2008? Not even close. Unemployment was 20%+ in the US, for starters. And that's without any sort of government safety net/welfare to rely on.

I suspect there's something coming down the pipe, and 2008 was merely the overture. If the gap between…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 19:58:00 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323147#post323147 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323147#post323147 We've already had that, and it hasn't worked.

It's more a Great Recession than a Great Depression. So far we haven't seen any bank failures or mass mortgagee sales here yet.

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 19:55:21 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323145#post323145 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323145#post323145 or even a 2nd Great Depression

We've already had that, and it hasn't worked.

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 19:03:28 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323141#post323141 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323141#post323141 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 18:48:03 +1200 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323137#post323137 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323137#post323137 I’m pretty sure that is a Wayne Youle (Māori artist) tee.

Reckon you're right. If it's not Youle it's an actionable knockoff.

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 18:36:41 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323136#post323136 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323136#post323136 Paying lipservice doesn’t diminish the hypocrisy of their secular laws.

You really, truly don't want non-secular laws. Because whichever sect they embody, there'll be several they oppress.

If what you're saying is that we need to do away with the futile trappings in law, such as swearing on a bible,…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 18:34:43 +1200 stephen clover https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323133#post323133 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323133#post323133 Key’s Mr Lollipop Man T-shirt, mangles our cultures like he mangles words – mr sensitive…

Wow! That T-shirt is indeed a remarkable reflection of his judgement of style and message – multiple points of offensiveness to parade at Waitangi!

Don't know if this helps and can't find web resource to…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 18:30:03 +1200 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323132#post323132 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323132#post323132 Paying lipservice doesn’t diminish the hypocrisy of their secular laws.

Or the hypocrisy demonstrated everyday by people everywhere.
Just face it we're all just filling in time before we die and our species goes extinct.
Reforming govt is a waste of time. Whatever, I've had a wine and I dont…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 18:22:57 +1200 Simon Sjorn https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323131#post323131 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323131#post323131 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 18:15:39 +1200 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323130#post323130 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323130#post323130 Part of the problem is that the unthinking voters don’t go to political meetings
I had a conversation with a friend last night. When l say friend I mean someone l have spoken to many times, we have visited each others houses and so… friends.
However, our conversation turned to…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 18:02:05 +1200 Matthew Hooton https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323128#post323128 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323128#post323128 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 17:48:36 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323127#post323127 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323127#post323127 I’d like that to be right – but, have you got a mechanism for that to come about? ’Cos questions of fact don’t exactly seem a strong priority for most of our politicians, nor for most of our media, as they’re currently configured.

I don't have any particular mechanism to…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 17:39:07 +1200 ChrisW https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323124#post323124 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323124#post323124 Key's Mr Lollipop Man T-shirt, mangles our cultures like he mangles words – mr sensitive...
Wow! That T-shirt is indeed a remarkable reflection of his judgement of style and message — multiple points of offensiveness to parade at Waitangi!

Alas, rather pointedly underscores how far I am from the…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 17:11:28 +1200 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323123#post323123 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323123#post323123 Part of the problem is that the unthinking voters don’t go to political meetings.

What are the preferred ways to actually find out about these meetings? I’m presently living in Ohariu, and a few weeks back when I was trying to discover which public candidate meetings were actually happening, I…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 17:09:24 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323122#post323122 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323122#post323122 I think every citizen who feels strongly enough about what's been revealed should look an MP in the eye, one on one, and ask them about their moral standards, about where they rate serving the citizens of this country as opposed to staying in Parliament
Good luck with that.

Please…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 16:39:04 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323120#post323120 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323120#post323120 If we don't get the rot cut out in the next term, only rebellion is going to force positive change. It may not be that far away either, if you think about the decision to fortify MSD offices.

You can't cut the rot out, it's institutional. Rebellion isn't the only…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 16:17:52 +1200 sandra https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323119#post323119 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323119#post323119 @UglyTruth, you're quite right. My best solution so far is highly impractical.

I think every citizen who feels strongly enough about what's been revealed should look an MP in the eye, one on one, and ask them about their moral standards, about where they rate serving the citizens of this…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 16:01:16 +1200 linger https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323118#post323118 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323118#post323118 a gradual devolution of power towards polling the public on questions of morality and conscience, and towards experts on questions of factI’d like that to be right – but, have you got a mechanism for that to come about? ’Cos questions of fact don’t exactly seem a strong priority for… ]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 15:54:37 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323117#post323117 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323117#post323117 If you want to increase turnout, make sure all your friends and workmates are enrolled and vote — you can vote early, which makes it easier to chase people up. It’s the most effective way of increasing voter participation: direct contact from someone they know.

It’s not as effective as…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 15:50:22 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323116#post323116 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323116#post323116 I think that our democratic system hasn't stopped working. It's just working to the natural limit of its current ability, and we have come to expect a lot more. It's hit some kind of equilibrium, and so we can't expect continual progress out of it.

It's an old idea, more…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 15:47:20 +1200 Keir Leslie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323115#post323115 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323115#post323115 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 15:40:27 +1200 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323114#post323114 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323114#post323114 My personal view is what the public are looking for – and what needs to occur as a precursor to real economic reform – is a political party with the vision to promise a real program of democratic and civic renewal, for example:

Under the current system it would never…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 15:40:10 +1200 BenWilson https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323113#post323113 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323113#post323113 If you have to resort to forcing people to vote, you’ve lost the argument.

I don't think so. We can at least remove the rational voter paradox, which probably quite strongly disproportionately afflicts the least privileged classes. I think compulsory voting is a good idea, by which I mean it's…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 15:27:03 +1200 Chris Waugh https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323111#post323111 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323111#post323111 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 13:55:36 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323110#post323110 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323110#post323110 We need to apply some democratic penicillin to heal the wound.
What sort of democracy, English, Greek, or Roman?

If we start with the assumption that NZ democracy is based on English democracy, then how do we identify the rights which are characteristic of English democracy? Why should civil rights…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 13:43:00 +1200 Tom Semmens https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323109#post323109 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323109#post323109 So when you go to a political meeting, and look around, the question isn’t who they appear to be supporting, but who isn’t there.

The collapse of mass membership political parties and the damage to our democracy that accompanied the Rogernomics betrayal by our political class in the 1980s and…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 13:31:38 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323107#post323107 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323107#post323107 No it doesnt they pay lipservice to it all the time.
Paying lipservice doesn't diminish the hypocrisy of their secular laws.

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 12:45:20 +1200 Cecelia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323106#post323106 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323106#post323106 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 12:37:34 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323105#post323105 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323105#post323105
For now, I've got no solutions. But I'm sure there should be some.

I think that the reason that people don't see the solution is because they are looking for conventional solutions which can be implemented via legislation, rather than looking at the underlying issue of equity/fairness in the relationship…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 12:24:50 +1200 Dismal Soyanz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323100#post323100 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323100#post323100 While engagement is something ideally all political parties should do, the fact that disengagement favours the right means that this is more a problem for the left.

Even then any attempt to invigorate public debate or interest in politics will need to be targeted. There is a sizeable group whose…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 11:29:30 +1200 andin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323097#post323097 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323097#post323097 but the secular state has a problem with their religious origins.
No it doesnt they pay lipservice to it all the time.
The problem IMO is the flawed nature of the solutions they offer, many are deeply unpleasant. To say the least.
And our continued inability to separate the good…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 10:33:54 +1200 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323094#post323094 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323094#post323094 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 10:09:38 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323092#post323092 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323092#post323092 critical masses..
So when you go to a political meeting, and look around, the question isn’t who they appear to be supporting, but who isn’t there.
Indeed!
Three Canterbury recovery leaders failed to front at a television current affairs show's live September 2010 earthquake special because of security concerns and…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 10:06:00 +1200 Lucy Telfar Barnard https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323091#post323091 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323091#post323091 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 10:02:26 +1200 Cecelia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323089#post323089 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323089#post323089 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 09:39:28 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323088#post323088 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323088#post323088 So when you go to a political meeting, and look around, the question isn't who they appear to be supporting, but who isn't there.
So are you saying that the problem relates to the reason why people don't get involved in political activism in general, or is it a problem…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 09:13:41 +1200 Ian Dalziel https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323085#post323085 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323085#post323085 the 'Love' is gone...
Aroha from Mt Albert's McGehan Close – labelled "a "dead end" and "the nation's street of hopelessness" created by the Labour government." by John Key – speaks up ...
Back in 2007, her mother Joan Nathan famously castigated Key for insulting their community.
As an olive…

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 08:54:03 +1200 Lucy Telfar Barnard https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323084#post323084 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323084#post323084 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 08:20:11 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323083#post323083 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323083#post323083 @sandra

OK, there is reason for you to be furious, but unless you direct that energy wisely it's just going to be wasted. Fixing things involves both understanding the cause of the problem and having a reasonable remedy in mind.

]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 08:07:00 +1200 sandra https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323082#post323082 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323082#post323082 Sun, 07 Sept 2014 07:40:28 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323079#post323079 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323079#post323079 little something in the Dirty Politics thread which may be relevant ;-) ]]> Sun, 07 Sept 2014 00:11:55 +1200 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323073#post323073 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323073#post323073 I’d like to respectfully point out to those unthinking voters that our young men and women – your friends and comrades – did not die on foreign battlefields for this kind of muck to be happening in our society or for it to be sanctioned by the highest levels in… ]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 21:04:54 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323072#post323072 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323072#post323072
Morals and ethics are not old-fashioned terms, plenty of young people care about them too.
Morals and ethics are part of the law of the land, but the secular state has a problem with their religious origins.

http://www.actsinjunction.info/corruption.html

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 21:03:09 +1200 stever@cs.waikato.ac.nz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323069#post323069 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323069#post323069 Sandra you've nailed it...it's beyond belief. Literally.

So many, many people don't believe it :(

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 20:45:39 +1200 Cecelia https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323068#post323068 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323068#post323068 Sat, 06 Sept 2014 20:25:02 +1200 sandra https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323062#post323062 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323062#post323062 I'm mostly a floating voter, although I tend to be left-leaning. Almost voted for the Maori Party one year but then Tariana said something silly ... Also note, a voter from the provinces.

The revelations from "Dirty Politics" have left me embarrassed and ashamed of the politicians in Government, the…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 19:16:53 +1200 Tom Semmens https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323059#post323059 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323059#post323059 The Herald is in fine Tory form this (saturday mornin) John Armstrong has produced one of his more blatant pieces of one-eyed opinionating, claiming Labour are the living dead.

Armstrong operates a ridiculous double standard when it comes to the level of accountability he holds Labour compared to National. Nary…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 18:48:47 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323058#post323058 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323058#post323058 Does anyone here take LF seriously? Just asking.
My first encounter with LF resulted in a mild head-butting session over calling copied emails "stolen", but we reached agreement about acting in the public interest. I don't always agree with the opinion posted there, but but I find the background on…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 18:45:48 +1200 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323052#post323052 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323052#post323052 Never come across them until now. While I persevered through Ugly Truth’s link, its self-aggrandisingly beady-eyed tone mainly served to remind just how good a presenter of complex information Hager can be.

Well put. I looked at LF and decided didn't want to extend it the authority of linking to…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 18:11:53 +1200 Joe Wylie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323049#post323049 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323049#post323049 Does anyone here take LF seriously? Just asking.
Never come across them until now. While I persevered through Ugly Truth’s link, its self-aggrandisingly beady-eyed tone mainly served to remind just how good a presenter of complex information Hager can be.

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 17:46:46 +1200 Alfie https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323048#post323048 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323048#post323048 Sat, 06 Sept 2014 17:31:05 +1200 UglyTruth https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323040#post323040 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323040#post323040 The latest on the Blomfield-Slater saga:

http://laudafinem.com/2014/09/04/whale-oil-blogger-cameron-slaters-bad-dream-climbs-into-bed-with-arch-nemesis-matthew-blomfield/

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 16:13:28 +1200 Kumara Republic https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323039#post323039 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323039#post323039 Well organised and careful targeting of those enterprises that pay for this stuff by advertising on the shows or in the papers is the best method of forcing a halt to the dissemination of lies.

The trick is to target the churnalists, without causing investigative journos like Toby Manhire et…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 15:56:05 +1200 James George https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323035#post323035 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323035#post323035 I've long since stopped buying papers and tuning in to one sided programmes. Consumers do have some clout in that advertisers need numbers- but so many of us seem not to notice the existence of the spin, it's a worry.

I'm sorry but I believe we've got to go further…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 15:16:02 +1200 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323034#post323034 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323034#post323034 This is no back-room conspiracy – it is so out there and obvious one has to assume that the perpetrators have become totally relaxed with their brainwashing, to the point where it is an accepted fact of life. Want to work in the media in New Zealand? Then say what… ]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 14:52:37 +1200 James George https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323032#post323032 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323032#post323032 The Herald is in fine Tory form this (saturday mornin) John Armstrong has produced one of his more blatant pieces of one-eyed opinionating, claiming Labour are the living dead.
That hasn't gone down well with their readership who are about 10 to 1 saying the Herald poll Armstrong based his…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 14:34:57 +1200 CJM https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323030#post323030 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323030#post323030 Andrea Vance finally admitting she's a pointless, waste of space and at the same time defining the 'nothing to see here' modus operandi of Key et al:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10466666/Looking-here-looking-there-looking-forward-to-election-day

Guess that now the election is all over she can go and buy some more shoes or get her fringe trimmed or,…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 14:17:52 +1200 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323027#post323027 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323027#post323027 Fits of laughter!
Where in the world is.... Jason Ede?

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 12:57:40 +1200 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323019#post323019 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323019#post323019 so presumably he’s no longer living
I can imagine the scenario.
"Hey John, this guy Ede could drop us right in the milkshed runoff if he opens his mouth"
"You're right Steve, loose lips sink Shits at the end of the day"
"End of the day, I see what you…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 11:05:53 +1200 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323015#post323015 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323015#post323015 Is he even alive?

It's odd that he hasn't been spotted anywhere. You'd think someone would've staked out his residence, so presumably he's no longer living there. It's clear that the media must not speak to him. Perhaps he's been provided with a whole new identity and banished to a…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 10:36:48 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323011#post323011 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323011#post323011 but I hadn’t thought of the National Library archive until @mpledger pointed it out.

I had but hadn't got round to it yet. I wasn't actually sure that online access was available. It's a lot harder to navigate, though, and links break more easily.

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 09:21:33 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323010#post323010 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323010#post323010 If i recall correctly, the Wayback archive can have items removed, if someone is determined, although I’m sure helpful souls have taken copies of all the files there, just in case.

:-) You betcha. Nothing really scandalous though, just a spat between former BFFs is my take.

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 09:19:35 +1200 izogi https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323009#post323009 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323009#post323009 If i recall correctly, the Wayback archive can have items removed, if someone is determined

According to its FAQ, the appropriate robots.txt on your website will remove all historic content... not just prevent future crawling. I guess this is what Cathy Odgers did, but I hadn't thought of the National…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 07:48:39 +1200 Ben Austin https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323007#post323007 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323007#post323007 Sat, 06 Sept 2014 02:43:26 +1200 Steve Barnes https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323005#post323005 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323005#post323005 The fact that he hasn’t been sacked and discredited

Well, publicly, at least.
Is he even alive?

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 01:21:52 +1200 Dismal Soyanz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323004#post323004 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323004#post323004 The fact that he hasn’t been sacked and discredited

Well, publicly, at least.

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 00:35:12 +1200 Trevor Nicholls https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323003#post323003 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323003#post323003 Sorry? Don't understand.

It was shorthand for "public servant acting on my instructions" vs "someone in my office acting on their own initiative and without my knowledge".

His disappearing is circumstantial evidence that he's been a bad boy. The fact that he hasn't been sacked and discredited is circumstantial evidence…

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 00:27:40 +1200 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323002#post323002 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323002#post323002 No question last year. Ede was a senior adviser in the National leader's office. He provided communication advice and support to the prime minister and to National Party MPs, including in the area of social media and other media.
stuff Dec 13.

]]> Sat, 06 Sept 2014 00:20:58 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323001#post323001 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=323001#post323001 If true, that’s suggestive that he was a servant not a rogue, n’est-ce pas?

Sorry? Don't understand.

He worked in the Opposition Leader's office, under Brash, then Key kept him on and took him into the PM's office, for reasons no-one seems willing to understand or enumerate. When National started…

]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 23:59:59 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322999#post322999 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322999#post322999 There is no Jason Ede, There has never been a Jason Ede.”

We have always been at war with Jason Ede.

]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 23:53:27 +1200 Angela Hart https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322997#post322997 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322997#post322997 Fri, 05 Sept 2014 23:46:30 +1200 Dismal Soyanz https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322995#post322995 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322995#post322995 Fri, 05 Sept 2014 23:17:35 +1200 Trevor Nicholls https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322992#post322992 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322992#post322992 It has not been reported that National have fired him, but he has rather become a non-person

If true, that's suggestive that he was a servant not a rogue, n'est-ce pas?

]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 23:04:22 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322991#post322991 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322991#post322991 Cactus Kate Twitter account. I suspect it's a bot as it appears to be posting Russian proverbs, in Russian. But Slater did link to it from one of the deleted posts, so I assume she used it at some point. ]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 22:56:55 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322990#post322990 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322990#post322990 Does anyone know if Jason Ede still has a job?

It has not been reported that National have fired him, but he has rather become a non-person.

]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 22:53:26 +1200 Rob Stowell https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322989#post322989 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322989#post322989 Does anyone know if Jason Ede still has a job?
For life, one is inclined to think. Or until he opens his mouth.

]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 22:50:58 +1200 Trevor Nicholls https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322988#post322988 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322988#post322988 extending to losing her job

Does anyone know if Jason Ede still has a job?

]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 22:47:51 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322987#post322987 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322987#post322987 My sense is that she’s taken more heat professionally than the others – extending to losing her job. That being in Hong Kong, not squeaky-clean New Zealand.

Presackly, Bungle. I suspect their bustup is the real deal – he's screwed her career and so she knifed his pet pollie so…

]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 22:47:30 +1200 Russell Brown https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322986#post322986 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322986#post322986 Most of the posts are favourable to Odgers, in a Slateresque fashion.

Yep. Which makes me think it’s probably her trying to distance herself from Whale Oil rather than the other way around.

My sense is that she's taken more heat professionally than the others — extending to losing her…

]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 22:43:59 +1200 SteveH https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322984#post322984 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322984#post322984 Most of the posts are favourable to Odgers, in a Slateresque fashion.

Yep. Which makes me think it's probably her trying to distance herself from Whale Oil rather than the other way around.

]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 22:33:23 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322982#post322982 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322982#post322982 Looks pretty obvious that the order for removal probably came from Odgers, looking at the list of links.

Having browsed through (and taken PDFs, for shits and giggles), I think it may be more symptomatic of the falling out between them than an order for distruction. Most of the posts…

]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 22:24:28 +1200 nzlemming https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322981#post322981 https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-privacy-and-the-public-interest/?p=322981#post322981 And the national library has been harvesting the whale oil blog every three months (roughly) since 2008 and cactus kate every six months (roughy) since 2008

I love you. ;-)

]]> Fri, 05 Sept 2014 22:22:32 +1200