Kyle: can we agree that the truth is somewhere in between?

Yup.

To return to where I came in: that becomes a problem if the system that we can deliver for 1M people is, as a result, so inconvenient as not to be used.

Yes you're right. But it's all…

Simply because people miss that face-to-face bouncing ideas off each other dynamic that you get from a communal workplace.

I miss the communal workplace period. Its social function is huge. But it doesn't need to be in the CBD.

Kyle:

You can have one running every ten minutes. That's nine…

Failing that light rail from CHCH to Ashburton & CHCH to Amberly encompassing all of the northern res devs up there?

I wouldn't go quite that far yet, but it seems logical that Chch is going to spread outside of the Green Belt – Templeton, Kaiapoi, etc.

The big problem with…

I've been told the magic number is a pop of 80K to justify light rail. Although Rolly…

Perhaps I'm dreaming that considerable numbers of people could move towards my mode of work, commuting to the office on foot from the bedroom

Sometimes you can look forward in time just by looking overseas. In California, where telecommuting seems be a lot more common than it is here, groups…

I think the figure was not referring to the cities that did it before automobiles were widely used. From memory…

Geez, I really hate how the LINK buses will stop for 5 minutes so that they can maintain their 'one-every-ten-minutes' schedule. And they always seem to stop at Victoria Park Market,…

Kyle: I'm happy to admit my comparison is simplistic. But the economies of scale (it's cheaper per capita to provide a higher total volume of service) actually strengthen my argument (that…

Hence, a PT system good enough to use under NZ conditions requires massive subsidies from city councils/local bodies/central government. Getting to Tokyo standards would require 95% subsidisation of the actual cost.

That's a pretty simplistic analysis. I haven't been to Tokyo, but some of the economies of scale will have…

b) Cantabrains still don't get out much

LOL. Chch public transport is great, as long as you live inside the city. If you live in Rolleston, you can drive past the closed Rolly railway station and all the way into town right next to the railway line, but you can't…

But that 90 minute figure is really interesting, because before cars, crossing London by horse would have been at least 90…

I would agree up to a point but figures like this can be misleading.

From what I understand, part of Tokyo's efficiency rests with a competition not unlike the "how many can I fit in a mini" game at peak times. Similar experiences are shared on PT systems…

So when you've done everything you can (at great expense to ratepayers/taxpayers) to encourage people onto public transport and yet still they won't budge from their cars, what options are left?

I thought it was quite obvious – put a whacking great 'sin tax' on petrol and imported cars, just…

a) The government re-nationalise key transport infrastructure ?

b) Cantabrains still don't get out much

"Driving a car in the in 07 is a bit like smoking in the 70's discuss."

Although in far more agreement than not, I would like to quibble over "choice". We only choose the options open to us by govt & because of the sell offs…

So when you've done everything you can (at great expense to ratepayers/taxpayers) to encourage people onto public transport and yet still they won't budge from their cars, what options are left? Random Slapping?

I think I get you now. You think it's futile? I don't think so. Definitely more people…

Heaps better. And cars will be heaps better by then too, so I'll have one of those thanks. Then it will be all round choice, rather than not particularly choice if you're a commuter,…

Will try to explain better.

We bought a…

It may seem farcical, but if drivers won't get out of their cars and ride buses – what options are left?

There are so many it's farcical. The public/private transport possibilities are huge.[list examples]

But that's not the point I was hoping to make Ben. You can provide endless options but…

How about you figure it out? I'll be interested in your solution to how you can get public transport to be as fast and convenient as an automobile. Seriously.

We each spend at least several $1000 a year on our cars. Many spend several tens of thousands, in depreciation alone.…

I'd call it our road if you weren't so bitter on it.

It may seem farcical, but if drivers won't get out of their cars and ride buses – what options are left?

There are so many it's farcical.…

I have a plan for rural communities too – Villages. The idea is to build a community by bringing it closer together and not living on isolated farms.

When a friend was showing me round in Nova Scotia some time ago, she pointed out the villages settled by the French…

Does it look something like the grimace most people get when exercising when they could be sitting around listening to…

Not sure if it's aimed at me – story about the teachers. But I do choose to teach in Lower Hutt, because I believe in what I'm able to do there – and I believe I can make a small measure of a difference in my role as a…

Ben an automobile can travel alot faster than it's allowed to by the various speed limits in place and the limits peak hours conjestion.

Ever noticed the…

If you want to know what Gordon Copeland REALLY cares about watch the United Future party political broadcast from the 2005 election.

"Child poverty in New Zealand is currently running at 20 percent... we have been involved in implementing the working…

i) Don't build more roads, wait for roads to get full.
ii) Set up congestion zones.
iii) More and multiple lanes given to PT exclusively.
iV) Work to a two stop structure for PT timetabling.
v) Light rail, crikey I'd…

No cars? Yeah, right.

If public transport doesn’t work, then figure out how to make it work ! Don’t trot out the same string of rubbish supporting the belief that it can’t ‘cos it’s Auckland.…

I…

I've walked from Joe Bannanas Hostel (just out of Hollywood) to the movie park along an LA motorway. A bit of fun as the hills slipped and there was no…

It seems to me that a lot of people would be quite happy to pay higher prices for petrol if it means they get to spend more time with their families.

Yeah I can empathise with that view. But at the risk of sounding really dull the radical argument is…

But if I were to take the bus (three buses, actually) to Newmarket on a Thursday, that would be at least another hour my boy was at home on his own.

I was talking about this sort of situation with my dad earlier in the week. It seems to me…

"Local shop... for local people!"

I teach in the Hutt, but live in Miramar. Wife works in Miramar. I love my…

I must admit that I was taken aback by Russell's claim that you can breathe by the LA freeway.

I remember being quite struck by it. We were stationary on the freeway, and had the windows down, and it was okay. I wouldn't like to try that in Auckland.

I must admit…

There really is no need to drop kids off at the school gate, if we had school buses. These could then be used on smaller route or tours etc. before…

living in California for 20 years drives the 'dirty car bad' meme into you quite firmly – I wish WOFs tested emissions the amount of crap spewing on NZ streets is really sad

I really think a policy such as this implemented in NZ would further see the flow of…

lets look at the pathetic string of anecdotes that reflect the prevailing consumerist philosophy of, I will pay, expend and exploit what is necessary in order not to share my space with others (which includes the poor and mentally ill).

81st, as far as I can tell, at least one…

We still walk from the Veg shop to home, it can be done.

Bloody obvous that you never get out much, otherwise you'd have noticed the phenomenon of the vanishing vege shop.

It's Saturday AM, and I'm off on my non-self-righteous beat-up Chinese bike to buy my veges at…

http://www.worldcarfree.net/wcfd/

Come now Stephen, this was a single event, thus proving Care in the Community works (even if a few in the community don't).

Just maybe a man capable of making it to his Docs by bus doesn't need a wrap around…

One (at least) excellent thing though, $3.7 million ear-marked for…

There was some bastard stinking of meths haranguing anyone who made eye contact. He had that creamy yellow spittle that you only…

...where they belong. Praise be the mighty auto.

Cause if they sat further back the driver either wouldn't hear or understand them?

I can hear them up the back, right there amongst the ganstas & the kids who like to suck face & watch their reflection in the window while they're doing it. Doesn't explain the speech impediments.
I wonder,…

The bus is a huge source of creative inspiration for me.

I feel that way about the car. The fear of death stills the mind from the irrelevances of life.

Which reminds me – why do those people who sit up front and talk out loud to the driver always have such chronic speech impediments?

Avoid the front and the back of the bus, cos that's where the trouble is.

The front of the bus is for the crazy people…

Cause if they sat further back the driver either wouldn't hear or understand them?

For example, they've reached a compromise position with the foresters.

Getting interest groups and the public on side rather than shouting at them is always going to get actual…

You'd have to talk yourself into how cool being in a bus is with an incredibly persuasive voice . . .

Which reminds me – why do those people who sit up front and talk out loud to the driver always have such chronic speech impediments?

I/S – just wanted to say thanks – you make it comprehensible, and I'm sure it takes you a fair bit of work to master all the setail and the digest out for lazy ones like me ;-)

Much appreciated.

Me too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rwwxrWHBB8

So you could have your Prius sitting at the lights thudding like it was a suped up Skyline

Why think small. If you're going to geek up your car, make it sound like the Jetson's spacecar, or an X-Wing fighter, or Darth Vader's TIE fighter... If I wanted a car…

Actually, I'm reliably told that the Foundation for the Blind is really quite anti them for this reason. (cue image of blind person stepping out on a quiet street and taking a Prius in the side at 40kmh)

Yup, it's something I noticed about driving a loud muscle car. I…

Much appreciated.

So you…

I've suggested that they should have someone walking in front of them with a bell, or more realistically perhaps, some sort of artificial noisemaker.

You could…

sneaking up on little old ladies in parking lots on the electric motor ...

Actually, I'm reliably told that the Foundation for the Blind is really quite anti them for this reason. (cue image of blind person stepping out on a quiet street and taking a Prius in the side…

U-Turn equips his whole crew with them for a gang war "they're really quiet. Good for sneaking up on mother fuckers."

the ability to drag off hoons, sneaking up on little old ladies in parking lots on the electric motor ...

It's a big Friday night here in Dunedin...

I must say, that's something you really feel the benefit of in Los Angeles. They might be damn near living in their…

I llike the idea of public transport, and used to use it a lot more when I lived closer to town, but the reality for me has degraded in recent years.

My SO drives the older boy a km or two to school in the morning, parks up and buses…

For example in town your car sits stopped for long periods (If I drove a Prius up to the lights and sat there for 5 hours wouldn't it have better efficiency than any kind of diesel?)

Diesels are getting much better at stuff like that too with the use of…

Which is why the greenies want changes. It's cheaper to go by car because you are not really paying for the true cost of running your car. Hence the carbon tax. Once that is factored in you may well find it cheaper to catch a bus to work.

I'm cheating…

And I agree, the rearview in the Prius is bad enough for me to call it a hazard, especially when I was pulling out into traffic.

With regard to…

Now I'm just waiting for some scientist to tell me I'd be better off living in coal mine.

Lower emissions are OK by me!

I must say, that's something you really feel the benefit of in Los Angeles. They might be damn near living in their cars, but at least…

I wish WOFs tested emissions the amount of crap spewing on NZ streets is really sad

I live on Mt Eden Road – a major Auckland non-motorway arterial road – and my flat is pretty close to the road itself.

As a result, all the dust in my flat is…

http://www.teslamotors.com/

I'd include a photo but frankly it's beyond me.

(Heh, I love the Aerorider "Delivery starts this autom").

OMG, you're like the new Bic Runga!

If only. Oliver Driver's tooling around town in a Lexus hybrid ...

To be fair to Espiner, I don't think are are many (if any) independent voices with the detailed grasp of the issue that I/S has.

Journalists must by their nature be generalists, and rely primarily on picking other people's brains. But still, this stuff is FAQ, so I'd expect them…

I've…

OMG, you're like the new Bic Runga!

My 50cc Hyosung Fast SF50 (seriously) costs me $4.55 a week in petrol AND you get the thrill of surviving the ride to work each day! My god, the adrenalin! All that for $1000 up front.

I did get to drive a Lexus hybrid and I'm…

Forestry being first, with both credits and a deforestation allowance means the market will initially be all sellers and no buyers. This means the price of permits will initially be very low, creating international interest in the market. Farsighted forest…

sneaking up on little old ladies in parking lots on the electric motor ...

I did like pressing the EV button and slinking along like a silent assassin, yes ...

I really enjoyed watching idiot/savant totally own Colin Espiner's initial shallow blog on this issue. More power to I/S's arm, and a milestone in the growing role of blogging as a serious news source.

To be fair to Espiner, I don't think are are many (if any) independent voices with…

While a Prius is the current *Sexy* green vehicle,

You can also get similar and some times better milage out of some of the new Euro Diesels,

Indeed, at the latest Frankfurt motor show they pointed out the EU Green labels for cars that categorise them by emissions. Prius et…

we didn't buy it for the low petrol consumption – we bought it because of the low emissions

It appears to be the other way around in New Zealand. Stephen Pollard at the CGCC told me that they get blokes shyly coming in and emphasising that, y'know, __they're not greenies…

Prius policy- comparisons

On my calculations I figure for the roughly $10k difference you could buy…

but I actually came to say, it looks like someone forgot to tell Richard Worth what the official line on climate change is.

You can also get similar and some times better milage out of some of the new Euro Diesels,

But Either way it is good to see people finally taking an interest in how much fuel it takes to get them from…

The GeoCities web site you were trying to view has temporarily exceeded its data transfer limit. Please try again later.

Halo 3 is released next week, and I'm offering up a Halo 3 Collector's Edition (in swanky metal box) and Halo 3 sweatshirt.

Oooh. Does it come with a '360 I can play it on?

:-)