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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Pills, not so many thrills</title>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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				<title>WH</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=26098#post26098</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=26098#post26098</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>They accepted biased and poor quality research to hype up the harms of BZP and suppressed information they didn't like.</p></blockquote><p>What is the state of the research regarding the side effects of medium to long term BZP use?  </p><p>A few months back I saw a newspaper report of a "study"…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 14:16:19 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=26087#post26087</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=26087#post26087</guid>
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						<p>I think the baggage allowance to the tag Washington law firm is accurate.<br />Geoff failed to introduce a constitution to NZ.<br />His RMA is primarily about property rights, rather than protecting the environment (other wise precautionary law would apply).<br />Chen went on Morning TV highlighting our parlimentary power is that…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 11:50:56 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=26080#post26080</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=26080#post26080</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>I think the major bulk of their work is in public law for non-government clients &mdash; including some (like the gaming industry) that might be deemed distasteful, so this is pretty much in line with what they do. Matt Bowden used them to get the original approval for Ease.</p></blockquote><p>Oh,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:41:18 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Spinner</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=26050#post26050</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=26050#post26050</guid>
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						What would be amusing is if current "legal" highs were subjected to this onus to prove safety.....alcohol?...tobacco?....and conversely the current illegal substances also have their legality determined by such a process....now what is the LD50 on some nice Hokianga skunk???
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				<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:45:43 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=26022#post26022</link>
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						<blockquote><p>NZ's drug policy already leads and brings me great joy in the respect that:</p><p>(1) we already have a restricted substances category for recreational drugs not harmful enough to be made illegal; and<br />(2) the future direction was clearly signalled by statements made through the Minister that the onus is…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:26:12 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Matt Bowden</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=26020#post26020</link>
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						<blockquote><p>I don't believe that either, but as long as politicians refuse to abolish The Lords Prayer from Parliament you'll never get any joy with a progressive drug policy.</p></blockquote><p>NZ's drug policy already leads and brings me great joy in the respect that:</p><p><strong>(1)</strong> we already <em>have</em> a restricted substances category…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:22:16 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>InternationalObserver</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25963#post25963</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25963#post25963</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>NZ will lead the world in progressive drug policy</p></blockquote><p>No, the Netherlands lead the world in progressive drug policy. </p><p>Good luck, but I doubt party pills (ones that get you high) will ever be legal again. That's be because getting high __is wrong, immoral, and should never be legalised. Party pills…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:18:33 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Matt Bowden</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25955#post25955</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25955#post25955</guid>
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						<p>Hi</p><p>The technology is definitely here to improve on BZP as far as drug effects go. We have plenty more, but I don't want to put them out without some control over them this time around.</p><p>Improving on the "26m pills consumed on 9.5m occasions by 400,000 kiwis over 7…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 14:01:22 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25905#post25905</link>
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						<blockquote><p>OK, am I the only person who feels a little uncomfortable with a law firm that does extensive work for the government and government departments on the one hand, acting as lobbyists for special interest groups on the other? Just a little too 'K Street' cosy for my blood.</p></blockquote><p>I…</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 11:10:59 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25904#post25904</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25904#post25904</guid>
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						Hydrogen cars are a smoke screen. I've just bought a new bike (love bikes) <a href="http://www.barras-baker.co.nz/kronan/kronan.htm" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://www.barras-baker.co.nz/kronan/kronan.htm</a>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:57:18 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25903#post25903</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25903#post25903</guid>
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						<p>Oh, and this caught my eye in your quote from that Press story (emphasis added):</p><blockquote><p>Social Tonics Association chairman Matt Bowden said the group was <strong>working with Chen Palmer on its select committee submission and proposals to the Law Commission</strong> and Ministry of Health on a regulatory framework for new…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:55:29 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Richard Wain</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25895#post25895</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25895#post25895</guid>
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						<p>"if something better was available, it would have already been put on the market"</p><p>bit much faith in the ol' market there methinks... hydrogen cars, anyone? why bother improving the product if it's already shifting big units...</p>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:07:25 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Morrison</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25890#post25890</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25890#post25890</guid>
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						<blockquote>That being said, anyone who wants to pin the police repression tag on Chavez is going to have to do the same to Lula too. I've always had my doubts about Chavez and I've always been a huge fan of the PT (Lula's political party &ndash; heck, I liked them…</blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:48:35 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Ben Austin</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25882#post25882</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25882#post25882</guid>
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						<p>Apologists always make me a little angry, not just for what they excuse, but also for the ammunition they give the extremists on the other side of the spectrum.</p><p>The far right in the US have been going to town on the leftist support for the Sardinistas for the last…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:00:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Tony Kennedy</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25874#post25874</link>
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						"sort of context" should be "sort of perspective"
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:04:51 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Tony Kennedy</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25870#post25870</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25870#post25870</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Meanwhile, panic in Limerick over BZP-based party pills in Ireland's head shops. It's a reasonable guess that they are New Zealand-made products.</p></blockquote><p>Not quite sure if panic is the right word, Limerick – known to the rest of Ireland as “stab city”  highlights the dark underbelly of the Celtic tiger,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:35:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25866#post25866</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25866#post25866</guid>
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						Kyle I wish you would point out my contradiction, as I have yours & Russells.
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:57:32 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Jeremy Andrew</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25865#post25865</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25865#post25865</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>gave me a massive smile,<strong> a massive erection</strong>, and had me running around the club looking to score more ... which scared my wife who immediately took me home ....</p></blockquote><p>You sure  she rushed you home beacuse she was scared?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:45:52 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25863#post25863</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25863#post25863</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Come now Kyle, a little consistency will go a long way here.<br />You aknowledged Chavez rearming was due to an Armerica threat.<br />We're with America and so have rearmed also.</p><p>...</p><p>Labour stood valiently to the side when Indo annexed Timor &amp; USA gave the Solomons a hostipal pass during WWII…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:28:02 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25861#post25861</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25861#post25861</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Did E do anything for you?</p></blockquote><p>Hard to say for sure, which in my book really means no. I once had a good night, but that particular night was good anyway.</p><p>There's still a couple of uppers to try, but I'm on a bit of a health kick recently, and…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:23:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25859#post25859</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25859#post25859</guid>
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						<blockquote>Yes, it would have been better and fairer to stick with existing due process, and in a less poisonous political environment that might have happened. It might also have wound up demonstrating to most of the people who took shouting "we have always owned the foreshore and seabed" that they…</blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:12:22 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25854#post25854</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25854#post25854</guid>
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						<p>Russell <br />The key difference is their threat is on their home soil from USA backed insurgents. It's only since vietnam the TF don't take their weapons home. Granted a level of corruption and abuse may well exist as in the Rotorua police where lines of control have been cut.</p><p>Police…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:41:40 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>InternationalObserver</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25851#post25851</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25851#post25851</guid>
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						gave me a massive smile, a massive erection, and had me running around the club looking to score more ... which scared my wife who immediately took me home ....
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:33:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25850#post25850</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Perhaps I'm just not an uppers kind of guy. Or perhaps I'm too critical to let a placebo effect work on me.</p></blockquote><p>Did E do anything for you?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:30:24 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25848#post25848</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25848#post25848</guid>
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						<p>Come now Kyle, a little consistency will go a long way here. <br />You aknowledged Chavez rearming was due to an Armerica threat.<br />We're with America and so have rearmed also.</p><p>To hold the UN up as some moral authority has the same vaidity as saying God is on my side.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:15:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25847#post25847</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25847#post25847</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Helen Clark wasn't in government when NZ got involved in Vietnam. In fact, I think she was a university student protesting against it.</p></blockquote><p>IIRC, our involvement in Vietnam was sold to the public as a "policing operation", which it quite clearly wasn't.</p><p>And yes, Clark marched in the streets, as…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:15:04 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25845#post25845</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25845#post25845</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>To rearm is to rearm. That Helen rearmed NZ is the same as Chavez rearming his nation.</p></blockquote><p>No it isn't. Handing out guns to your friendly militias has tended to end badly in other countries.</p><blockquote><p>All peace keeping operations is simantics for they're not coming over the top YET.</p></blockquote><p>No…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:13:22 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Graham</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25842#post25842</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25842#post25842</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Invent a better mouse-trap and people will buy it, etc.</p></blockquote><p>That's not how modern business works though.</p><p>Invent a better mouse trap and save it for when your current mouse traps aren't selling.</p><p>For instance, it is rumoured that Intel is already producing processors on a 45nm process, but they…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:11:31 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25839#post25839</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25839#post25839</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>To rearm is to rearm. That Helen rearmed NZ is the same as Chavez rearming his nation.</p></blockquote><p>That's nonsense. See my point about Helen Clark not handing out AK47s. Upgrading military equipment for a standing army which largely engages in peacekeeping activities under the banner of the UN, is completely…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:53:51 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25837#post25837</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25837#post25837</guid>
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						<p>Kyle </p><p>To rearm is to rearm. That Helen rearmed NZ is the same as Chavez rearming his nation. </p><p>That USA has invaded oil rich nations for their oil is really without doubt, and is about defending the american way of life = cheap oil. This is a form of self…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:25:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>insider outsider</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25836#post25836</link>
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						<p>Pilger’s always been like this. I’m not sure why there is a big surprise. He’s always had an agenda and always pushed that. </p><p>At journalism school we used to carry around copies of “Heroes” like Mao’s little red riding hood book, because we wanted to change the world and we…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:11:54 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25835#post25835</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25835#post25835</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Aunty Helen has led the rearming of the NZDF.<br />Exactly which invasion has Chavez been party to?<br />Closing a TV station &amp; banning coverage of MPs in parliment, a matter of degree but all going the same way.<br />And which ethnic group has Chavez made illegal to have legal representation in…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:26:19 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25834#post25834</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25834#post25834</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Ben, they worked for everyone else but you.</p></blockquote><p>Phew, I thought I must have just been crazily at odds with common perceptions of what 'high' actually meant. Maybe I have odd brain chemistry, and it just didn't work for me.</p><p>Then again, I do recall some effects &ndash; there was…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:22:54 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>FletcherB</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25833#post25833</link>
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						<p>I guess if "they" have only just recently discovered better than BZP alternatives.... I can see why they would hold off with new regulations coming in soon....</p><p>But if they have known about these better alternatives for some time, why have they not been selling them already?</p><p>Invent a better…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:14:13 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>FletcherB</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25832#post25832</link>
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						<p>Surely the fact that Matt Bowden was trying to find something better and bring it to market suggests that.... well... that people were trying to find something better? (and legal)</p><p>Ben- I agree that it was definitely a marketing success, and maybe "cool factor" was more in effect than actual…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:08:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25831#post25831</link>
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						<blockquote><p>That doesnt disprove my point..... if methylone was better as you say, but turned out to be legal, do you doubt it would have started outselling BZP?</p></blockquote><p>Yes, it would have, but it was banned before it emerged from Bowden's public trial/direct marketing operation. It had quite a fan base.…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:01:50 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25830#post25830</link>
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						<p>Kyle said<br />Helen Clark, for example, isn't importing thousands of AK47s into her country to prepare for an American led insurgency.</p><p>Aunty Helen has led the rearming of the NZDF. (Of course the notable exception of the strike force &ndash; that has never ever been used &ndash; hell I came…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:01:37 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25828#post25828</link>
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						<blockquote><p>The funniest thing is that it probably led to quite good parties because of it's *ineffectiveness*.</p></blockquote><p>Ben, they worked for everyone else but you. Just not for all that long &mdash; and not nearly as long as they made you feel absolutely ghastly.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:58:30 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25825#post25825</link>
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						<blockquote><p>As for the banning television channels and meddling with the constitution &ndash; I agree there &ndash; Chavez looks definitely to be on the slide.</p></blockquote><p>Oddly enough, while it was doubtless whiffy, the refusal to renew RCTV's frequency licence doesn't trouble me as much as some of the other stuff. It…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:54:44 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Terence Wood</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25823#post25823</link>
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						<p>Hi Neil,</p><p>Conor Foley's great isn't he.</p><p>That being said, anyone who wants to pin the police repression tag on Chavez is going to have to do the same to Lula too. I've always had my doubts about Chavez and I've always been a huge fan of the PT (Lula's…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:48:23 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25822#post25822</link>
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						I'm not convinced by the "if a better legal high was available we'd know about it either". Because BZP was so crap I'd rate it as lamer than coffee. Its success was due to cunning marketing, to giving the impression of something cool and slightly dodgy, rather than 0ld 5k00l…
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:46:31 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>FletcherB</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25819#post25819</link>
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						<p>Russell,<br />That doesnt disprove my point.....  if methylone was better as you say, but turned out to be legal, do you doubt it would have started outselling BZP?</p><p>Yes, the new regulations will change things... but as things stood up until now, if a better legal high was already available,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:30:18 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25818#post25818</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Is he doing anything different than Helen Clark has actually achieved (&amp; wants to continue)?</p></blockquote><p>Umm, yup.</p><p>I have mixed feelings about Chavez, as do probably a fair few people on the left.</p><p>I also have mixed feelings about Helen Clark, again, ditto.</p><p>But the difference between them and what they're…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:29:57 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25814#post25814</link>
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						<blockquote><p>The difference is that Lula is doing it constitutionally and properly, without transforming his country into a dictatorship.</p></blockquote><p>The other difference is that Brazil is a LOT bigger than Venezuela. About 10 times as many people. It's like comparing the problems NZ faces with the problems faced by the UK.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:15:07 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25813#post25813</link>
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						<blockquote><p>I have no inside info, and in fact no actual interest.... but logic suggests whatever replaces BZP has to be not as good.... if something better was available, it would have already been put on the market.</p></blockquote><p>Not at all. Bowden's Ease (methylone) was <em>way</em> better than BZP, but the…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:14:28 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>InternationalObserver</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25810#post25810</link>
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						<blockquote><p>but he should have accepted the constitutional limits rather than seeking to make himself President-for-life</p></blockquote><p>But remember, he is an avowed fan of Fidel Castro ... dictators always see themselves as benign.</p><p>Contrast this with US democracy: Bush I &amp; II, and now possibly Clinton I &amp; II. He insists not, but who…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:49:46 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25809#post25809</link>
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						<blockquote><p>The most succinct condemnation of Chavez is a simple comparison with him to President Lula of Brazil &ndash; a centre left politician who really is doing something for the less well off, without the benefit of all that oil money.</p></blockquote><p>Well, Chavez "really is doing something for the less well…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:49:20 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25808#post25808</link>
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						You're right on the button about Chavez. He's not a murdering psychopath (yet), but he's dangerously authoritarian and on a path that undermines rather than strengthens Venezuela's democracy.  What he's done for the people of Venezuela has been great (RWDB's MMV), but he should have accepted the constitutional limits rather…
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:44:48 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael  Fitzgerald</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25806#post25806</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25806#post25806</guid>
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						<p>"While any sensible person would have qualms about Chavez' recent actions"</p><p>Much of central/south america are at war (only on occation openly). As such being on a war footing requires strength. </p><p>Is he doing anything different than Helen Clark has actually achieved (&amp; wants to continue)? </p><p>On Human Rights how about…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:34:49 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>InternationalObserver</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25805#post25805</link>
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						I would suggest to this Govt that more people have been harmed by our 'Wild West' financial markets/rules than BZP party pills.  And yet the Government's new regulations  to protect New Zealanders (and it's the old bumble headed pensioners like my Dad who are always stung) from cowboy finance/investment schemes…
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:33:33 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>BenWilson</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25804#post25804</link>
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						<blockquote><p>What-ever replaces BZP is bound to be not quite as good</p></blockquote><p>I shudder to think how bad that would be. NoDoz perhaps? Hopefully Anderton doesn't make drinking coffee illegal before his sorry arse leaves politics forever.</p><p>As for Pilger, I think he's coming at it from the "Chavez isn't so…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:22:42 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Neil Morrison</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25800#post25800</link>
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						<p>The most succinct condemnation of Chavez is a simple comparison with him to President Lula of Brazil &ndash; a centre left politician who really is doing something for the less well off, without the benefit of all that oil money.</p><p>Conor Foley often has very good pieces on <a href="http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/conor_foley/2007/08/bucking_the_trend_1.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Brazil</a> in…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:08:20 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25799#post25799</link>
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						<p>It's petty in an entirely different way to the David Parker thing &ndash; who was alleged (and completely vindicated) to have misled the Companies Office over the appointment of an auditor &ndash; which is an important safeguard for minority shareholders.</p><p>I doubt very much that there is even the hint…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:01:13 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>FletcherB</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25798#post25798</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Do you have any scoop on what form the post-BZP products will take?</p><p>Is there any real reason to hope they will exceed the performance of the soon-to-be-banned pills and still manage to hurt less the next day?</p></blockquote><p>I have no inside info, and in fact no actual interest....  but…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:51:55 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Michael Savidge</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25796#post25796</link>
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						<p>Russel,</p><p>Do you have any scoop on what form the post-BZP products will take?</p><p>Is there any real reason to hope they will exceed the performance of the soon-to-be-banned pills and still manage to hurt less the next day?</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:39:40 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-pills-not-so-many-thrills/?p=25794#post25794</link>
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						<blockquote><p>But it's interesting to see Labour now acting like an Opposition party and employing the same slow-drip attempt to erode its opponents' credibility as has worked so well for National.</p></blockquote><p>Emphasis on the 'attempt' part, and I think there has to be a meaningful distinction drawn between (legitimate) political and…</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:28:25 +1200</pubDate>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:28:25 +1200</pubDate>
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