Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Our own fake news

Neil

Sun, 30 Jul 2017 09:57:56 +1200

I think they just wanted Clinton to lose and to hell with the consequences. The pretense of maintaining that had nothing to do with who is the current President is the weird part.

Regarding the 3rd party vote, it’s chilling how closely Jill Stein followed Nada with similar consequences.

From…

Neil

Sun, 30 Jul 2017 08:47:55 +1200

Wisconsin’s Voter-ID Law Suppressed 200,000 Votes in 2016 (Trump Won by 22,748)

It makes you wonder why quite a few US pundits – who claim to have really really wanted Trump not to win – spent so much time and energy condemning the Dem campaign and Clinton for being out…

nzlemming

Sat, 22 Jul 2017 10:13:26 +1200

And another one's gone,
And another one's gone
And another one bites the dust....

Rich Lock

Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:31:23 +1200

Trump (currently) has enough money to pay lawyers to fight it.

Well, if the guy won't pay and he won't listen, then it's not necessarily a get out jail free card.

nzlemming

Fri, 21 Jul 2017 20:11:52 +1200

Trump (currently) has enough money to pay lawyers to fight it.

Maybeeee...
Currently, his and his family's legal expenses are being covered by the 2020 campaign fund.

And, further to the NT Times interview, Sessions has told staff at DoJ that he will not be resigning, leading to consternation among…

Stephen R

Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:13:49 +1200

They really don't think these things through, do they?
Technically, with the revival of this programme and an honest belief that a crime has been committed, any FBI agent can now seize all of the Trump family's assets.

Nah, the way asset forfeiture works is they take usually just enough…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 21 Jul 2017 02:49:16 +1200

As Trump falters, supporters in a Pennsylvania county that swung Republican in 2016 blame the media for his woes and insist Hillary Clinton would be worse

It's not just arsehole contrarianism that motivates people like Greenwald, it's also financial interest – there's a depressingly large market for the blame anyone…

Neil

Thu, 20 Jul 2017 19:27:10 +1200

As Trump falters, supporters in a Pennsylvania county that swung Republican in 2016 blame the media for his woes and insist Hillary Clinton would be worse

It's not just arsehole contrarianism that motivates people like Greenwald, it's also financial interest – there's a depressingly large market for the blame anyone…

nzlemming

Thu, 20 Jul 2017 18:08:39 +1200

In the latest outrage from the Chump-in-Chief, Trump Wouldn’t Have Picked Sessions If He Had Known Sessions Would Recuse Himself on Russia on Slate.

[Edit]
The actual source is a New York Times interview.
He's also threatened Mueller if he goes after the Trump family finances.

In other news, [[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/sessions-greenlights-police-to-increase-seizures-of-cash-and-property-from-suspected-criminals/2017/07/19/3522a9ba-6c99-11e7-96ab-5f38140b38cc_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories-2_forfeiture-610pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.1c41bcc67572|Sessions greenlights police…

Neil

Thu, 20 Jul 2017 17:54:22 +1200

Still nothing to see here:

Paul Behrends, a top aide to [Republican] Representative Dana Rohrabacher, has been ousted from his role as staff director for the House Foreign Affairs subcommittee that Rohrabacher chairs, after stories appeared in the press highlighting his relationships with pro-Russia lobbyists.

Rohrabacher voted against Obamacare, denies…

Neil

Thu, 20 Jul 2017 11:01:15 +1200

Trump Campaign Chief’s Firm Got $17 Million From Pro-Russia Party

Shortly after yet another less than transperent contact between Trump and Putin is revealed Trump ends Obama's support for moderate Syrian opposition groups. The Alt world is of course celebrating another win for Putin.

It's odd how those who argue Assad…

Russell Brown

Thu, 20 Jul 2017 09:37:23 +1200

The desired and ongoing result is to weaken western-style democracies by gaslighting the populations on a massive scale.

Adam Curtis in 2014, on the rise of Vladislav Surkov:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od4MWs7qTr8

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 20 Jul 2017 08:46:11 +1200

the Jordan Williams outfit
While flicking channels last night, I noticed he was a guest on TV3's The Project – I didn't tarry...

But I can imagine him, tarry ...
and feathery!

Rich Lock

Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:34:49 +1200

it seems designed just as much to confuse and undermine; to cast doubt and aspersions, as to push a line.

It's quite disturbing. It plays into the hands of Trump, Assad and Putin. Some of it like The Intercept is well financed.

There is a theory I've seen floated once…

simon g

Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:52:57 +1200

That SpinOff link features Porky Pig, campaigning for the Taxpayers' Union.

Does the Jordan Williams outfit have permission to use a character whose copyright is owned by Warner Bros?

Sacha

Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:57:20 +1200

the taxwhinger's union

excellent.

Sacha

Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:54:38 +1200

Why? Because they can. Not because they care. And that is on them. If they don't know the difference between censorship and basic professional standards, they really are a big part of the problem.

A good summary of the problem across media outlets: abandonment of editorial and journalistic standards where…

Neil

Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:35:09 +1200

There’s a bit of pilger here, a dose of asange there. It’s not ideological. it seems designed just as much to confuse and undermine; to cast doubt and aspersions, as to push a line.

It's quite disturbing. It plays into the hands of Trump, Assad and Putin. Some of it…

Rob Stowell

Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:00:24 +1200

The most ridiculous thing about the taxwhinger's union is how successful they are at getting their propaganda and spin taken up by the msm. They're not in opposition to our media; they're using it, parasitic, as a host for their nasty ideology. And way too often our media mates swallow…

Rob Stowell

Tue, 18 Jul 2017 21:39:03 +1200

I've been arguing with some 9/11 truthers on facebook (one of whom is an old mate, haven't seen for years, but good to catch up.). It's interesting, perplexing, and a bit demoralising. They also will criticise snopes, and more-or-less reject both argument and evidence. There's a community around this; rejecting…

Rob Stowell

Tue, 18 Jul 2017 21:24:44 +1200

* the last time ever I will teach this course.
End of an era! Sad but maybe liberating too?

Rob Stowell

Tue, 18 Jul 2017 21:23:34 +1200

Sorry – yeah, but it's a key connection I think. Not that Pilger is an anti-semite (I'm sure he's not) just that his strident anti-zionism attracts some bad company, and leads some people into much darker water.

Neil

Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:29:50 +1200

“If this was a charity run by President Donald Trump and daughter Ivanka Trump, then we have no doubt we would not be funding it. So why are we funding the Clintons?”

Our local alt-worlders are a bit behind in their false equivalence. No mention of how criticism of the…

nzlemming

Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:14:13 +1200

if the Clinton Foundation was so effective at delivering aid outcomes, why have our Aussie neighbours pulled out?"

Because they're dicks? #justathought

Russell Brown

Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:24:20 +1200

Here we go again ...

18 July 2017
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

The Taxpayers' Union can reveal that another $2.4 million has been paid by the NZ Aid programme to the controversial 'Clinton Health Initiative', a subsidiary of the Clinton Foundation, which President Bill Clinton and his daughter Chelsea Clinton sits…

Kumara Republic

Fri, 14 Jul 2017 23:17:40 +1200

Josh Marshall has been pointing this out for a while now. It might be that what does in Trump himself will be the unwanted light shed on his business finances by any investigation.

As in the kind of investigation that got Al Capone nabbed for tax evasion?

Russell Brown

Fri, 14 Jul 2017 15:52:19 +1200

Trump owes much of his business success, and by extension his presidency, to a flow of highly suspicious money from Russia.

Josh Marshall has been pointing this out for a while now. It might be that what does in Trump himself will be the unwanted light shed on his business…

WH

Fri, 14 Jul 2017 15:03:14 +1200

From the NYT: The Aria of Babyface Cauliflower Brown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULhejU7K7DQ

Neil

Fri, 14 Jul 2017 07:24:45 +1200

Trump owes much of his business success, and by extension his presidency, to a flow of highly suspicious money from Russia.

It's the sort of thing that got overshadowed by all the fake Hillary Clinton scandals and there's a remarkable number of US pundits still intent on down playing the…

Lilith __

Fri, 14 Jul 2017 03:23:28 +1200

It worries me that some of my highly-educated and otherwise intelligent friends won't take Snopes as the end of the discussion.
Then it's "Oh yeah it's a badly written article. I'll have to find another one with citations cos this issue is important."
Or
"Well, it might not be right…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 13 Jul 2017 23:46:03 +1200

Really! I have found his criticism of Israeli policies at times strident and wrong headed but never thought he was an anti Semite.

I suspect much of the current mess came from the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin before he could see the Oslo Accords through. Bibi Netanyahu basically cashed in…

Geoff Lealand

Thu, 13 Jul 2017 23:36:09 +1200

Thanks for this, Russell. I will use it in my first year Media Cultures course* as their first blog task is to identify an item of fake news and track it back to its origin (as you have done).
Every man and woman and dog engaged in teaching is doing…

Kumara Republic

Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:30:47 +1200

The other page, the account of the Pilger-to-Hitler person, was genuinely unnerving. Last time it was someone not bothered when I pointed out they were sharing hideous neo-Nazi cartoons – this time, full Hitlter. And they were both women who seemed to consider themselves sort of greenie-lefty. Buying the Assad-Putin…

andin

Thu, 13 Jul 2017 17:42:44 +1200

Really! I have found his criticism of Israeli policies at times strident and wrong headed but never thought he was an anti Semite.

Rob Stowell

Thu, 13 Jul 2017 15:21:25 +1200

Im trying to connect the dots as to how anyone can make that leap. They are polar opposite as far as I’m concerned. So it defeats me.
Israel.

andin

Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:48:40 +1200

From the study
rationality has a bigger impact on shaping (sometimes irrational) beliefs than previously expected, given that in the current communication environment, people are overloaded with emotional messages coming from ads, political and social campaigns.
It was a small cross section of people in Hungary apparently, dont know if…

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 13 Jul 2017 10:37:46 +1200

Bread and Serkises...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVqJtvRjuns

Trump the cunning linguist!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpxCl8ylJgE

andin

Thu, 13 Jul 2017 10:25:29 +1200

Pilger-to-Hitler
Im trying to connect the dots as to how anyone can make that leap. They are polar opposite as far as I'm concerned. So it defeats me.

David Hood

Thu, 13 Jul 2017 07:52:40 +1200

Reason and ridicule may work better than empathy in stopping such beliefs

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5061726/

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 13 Jul 2017 07:33:29 +1200

coupla tangentially linked links :
How NZ's growing alt-right movement plans to influence the election
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11888810
and
Raybon Kan: Maybe all news is fake, perception is all
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11889633

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 13 Jul 2017 06:36:56 +1200

This person has gone from quoting Pilger to quoting Hitler.
aha! the 'G-Philtre' – misery loves company...

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 19:47:12 +1200

Yeah, this is why I replied to an actual friend of mine on FB sharing a piece asserting that Muslim families in Canada were trying to get pork banned from schools. It was obvious bullshit, and when I googled the name of the town it was supposed to have happened…

linger

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 18:04:19 +1200

My point is that it is dangerous to rely on "one study says..." (especially if that study seems to support something surprising) rather than considering the balance of available evidence.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:58:44 +1200

Trump supporters know Trump lies. They just don’t care.

Or to put it another way: "If I can't have my whitebread 1950s America, then let it burn!"

R A Hurley

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:28:32 +1200

Even if that study were legitimate, it would still be possible to argue that their success in convincing people could be explained by the backfire effect being either non-existent or much weaker than previously thought. After all, it's not difficult to counteract something that doesn't exist.

But, given that the…

Emma Hart

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:26:04 +1200

Sometimes on Facebook threads I do wade in with citations. It likely won't convince the person spouting the crazy, but it does tend to help people wondering if this stuff can be true.

Yeah, this is why I replied to an actual friend of mine on FB sharing a piece…

linger

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:46:00 +1200

However, as reported on This American Life, one study, purporting to demonstrate a way of counteracting the backfire effect, had to be retracted when it emerged that the survey results had been fabricated.

Chris Waugh

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:55:26 +1200

at 5 a.m., and I’ll flick on the radio.

There's what happens at 5am, and there's what gets published or broadcast at "mainstream" hours. E.g. "Car crash, foreign driver involved." Not fake news, but a deliberate choice of facts presented, and a point on the spectrum from actual news presented…

Carol Stewart

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:32:20 +1200

* may not actually be from Browns Bay, alliteration is fake news

Or poetic licence?

simon g

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 14:08:25 +1200

The fringes may be immune to reason, but there's a more serious problem when their rantings are given air time in mainstream media. For example, I'm one of those insomniacs awake at 5 a.m., and I'll flick on the radio. At that hour, the two commercial "news" outlets (ZB and…

R A Hurley

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:51:15 +1200

It seems that some new research has failed to replicate the presence of any significant Backfire Effect. I find this both reassuring and terrifying, and in about equal measure. Reassuring in the sense that there likely isn't some kind of massively flawed heuristic evolved right into the brain of every…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:49:04 +1200

I just had this joke shared with me:

Two Trump supporters are on their way to a rally when they get into a car accident and die. Being believers, they both go to Heaven and meet St. Peter at the Pearly Gates. One says to the other, "So, are you…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:38:46 +1200

It’s amazingly visible with Trump stuff at the moment. Supporters see media stories about Trump as evidence that their belief in a compromised mainstream media is real. The more the media pushes, the more they are convinced that it’s a battle.

When conspiracy theorists are confronted with facts that contradict…

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 13:06:45 +1200

and then takes the big important just (“and they’re all JEWS!”)

This person has gone from quoting Pilger to quoting Hitler.

Dylan Reeve

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 12:58:14 +1200

Yeah, it's a weird time. People seem to take small incremental steps from one slightly fringe viewpoint into completely batty town. There's so much "information" out there for people to take in.

It starts from a comfortable place ("governments are largely controlled by corporations") and just builds a little bit…

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 12:06:28 +1200

It can be tricky. Sometimes on Facebook threads I do wade in with citations. It likely won't convince the person spouting the crazy, but it does tend to help people wondering if this stuff can be true.

I'm actually getting quite worried about the sheer scale of the delusions in…

Jason Kemp

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 12:03:29 +1200

Here is a some recent research on the topic

"A study of more than half a million tweets, recently published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, shows that morally outraged tweets tend to be widely retweeted within their political spheres—but rarely escape their bubbles."

From [[https://qz.com/1024117/one-visualization-shows-how-morally-outraged-tweets-stay-within-their-political-bubble/|One graph…

Dylan Reeve

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:57:21 +1200

There’s probably been studies done about it Im sure.
getting people to see the error of their ways or changing their mind by providing good counter arguments, facts even, is near impossible.

Yeah, it’s pretty well studied. But even more than being hard to change minds, it can often serve…

andin

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:27:33 +1200

remonstrating with people who believe
There's probably been studies done about it Im sure.
getting people to see the error of their ways or changing their mind by providing good counter arguments, facts even, is near impossible.
Im beginning to think this modern iteration of this age old problem is…

John Farrell

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:26:29 +1200

Now you'll be getting quoted as a "credible source, journalist Russell Brown" on the fake news leads.

Mark Graham

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:13:15 +1200

Can you please add a 'laugh' emoji to the response options?

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 09:39:23 +1200

Oh, also: I added the "m" to "$13.7m" that was missing in the YourNewsWire story, so it made sense.

I guess I'm now complicit too.

Russell Brown

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 09:28:51 +1200

Brilliant.

I tweeted the story and the very first engagement with it was someone who didn't read the post (or apparently see the #fakenews tag) but shared it on the basis of the tweeted words "John Key was forced to resign after being caught giving $13.7 in taxpayer money to…

Public Address

Wed, 12 Jul 2017 09:28:51 +1200

Discussion from blog post.