Sorry, wrong discussion--it should over The Peter Principle.

I agree with what you said. I was heartened by Peter Jackson's mentioning shifting the emphasis from producers to 'writers and directors', but considering he hasn't directed an original story since I guess 'The Frighteners', almost 15 years ago, I'm far from…

Opiate use was not confined to Chinese migrants of those times

Yes. Chinese migrants had used opium previously and have continued to. Opiate use has never been confined to Chinese migrants. ;)

Maybe I am…

The first 2 generations were market gardeners, and small entrepreneurs. Ever after, their descendants successfully climb any social ladder they want (I think it is the ethos that appreciates hard work & education)

These followed the first generation that came for the gold rush and were renown for cleaning every last…

That's great – but... any old small town could be near forest, beaches, mountain views etc. I agree with what Robyn said earlier: let's not pretend cities aren't cities.

Not near the city, in the city, in Vancouver anyway.

But you said (my emphasis): “Vancouver is a very nice…

Similarly, City Vision are pretty unhappy today about Auckland City Council approving an $84m spend on "party central". That included…

O, excuse me.)

The extra funding covered the cost of a qualified conductor one of a handful in…

Canadians are couth & polite people with…

O dear. I remember the Vancouver Chinatown -& the eateries! – with great pleasure...would the faint stirring of hostility towards new Asian immigrants (which both Mary & self picked up on in 1995) have anything to do with the current dereliction?

Hostility towards Asian immigrants in Vancouver? Vancouver is Asian, my family…

That's great – but... any old small town could be near forest, beaches, mountain views etc. I agree with what Robyn said earlier: let's not pretend cities aren't cities.

Not near the city, in the city, in Vancouver anyway.

Vancouver – City Scene

By filling up the waterfront with exciting…

Mind you, Vancouver is not without its horrors – the number of homeless people jumped (in 15 years) from under 100 to somewhere between 15 and 17,000 – which is a lot of people to be begging in the streets and sleeping rough.

Interesting. I'm just back from a week…

They had to build that though, coz a muddy creek full of things that want to eat you wasn't much of a tourist attraction.

I dunno, Steve Irwin did alright out of it.

What about a park and lagoon pool like the Cairns esplanade

They had to build that though, coz a muddy creek full of things that want to eat you wasn't much of a tourist attraction.

I went to Cairns in '87 and it was way nicer than today.

I was thrilled to read (NZ born WWII heroine) Nancy Wake's account of visiting and falling in love with Vancouver

Dyan – again, coincidentally, I've just been reading about 'the white mouse'.

Amazing woman.

Her French companions praised her fighting spirit; amply demonstrated when she killed an SS sentry with…

Sometimes when you bring the thunder you get lost in the storm

Heh. This could be the next big thing for me going forward.

Interesting…

http://media.travstar.com.au/dbimg/rg_i_1212.jpg

What about a park and lagoon pool like the Cairns esplanade.

Vancouver is a very nice place to be (even the CBD) but mostly for things that are not the city at all – forest, beaches, mountain views (with snow the Lions really do look like Lions).

That's great – but... any old small town could be near forest, beaches, mountain…

I was there in 1995, and probably the emptying out of…

Dyan C – the only city in the world (havent gone to many, mind) that I felt instantly at home in – aside from Dunedin (where I should feel at home in, given the considerable whanau connections!)- was Vancouver.

I'm glad you liked it, Islander – Vancouver is a very…

And Harry Sinclair and Don McGlashan to croon from the deckchairs.

Let's say Chris Knox from deck or wheel chair.:)

Get the set designers for Outrageous Fortune to whip up something that showcases our quarter acre heritage

Well not exactly but there are set designers amongst us, so that could be arranged.

How novel to suggest privatising the profits and socialising the losses. Original headline online was "Govt needs to assist dairy sector", since changed to "Govt needs to show leadership on dairy".

Can't see Ngati Whatua agreeing to another tree until the matter of their place at the new regional table is resolved, either.

And the irony is that many Aucklanders would too, if anyone actually asked. Instead we get dithering then panic from our "leaders".

So a mayor that put a nice bit of grass on the waterfront and a tree back on One tree hill would get re-elected?

I suspect that something as simple as a large, grassy, open space would do the tricky excellently.

I'd vote for that.

You can find an "economic theory" to justify absolutely anything.

Craig I agree and have a personal dislike for economics that isn't helped by some of the Nobel Prize winners

But what I'm referring to isn't some new fangled outlandish weird options hedging theory. It's really boring basic economics that…

Salt Lake City? Totally memorable and, please, may I never go there again.

Oh yes absolutely. A really great example of what happens when you don't try to make a city feel nice. I blame the lack of good coffee in the whole state.

However the actual salt lake…

That IS Nationals forte after all.

You want to tell Mike Lee you've signed him up?

I realised on the way home from work that we've done seven whole pages without a post-title-referencing 'coulda been a contender' joke. I think we're slipping, frankly.

Coulda been a cake-tin, duh.

I suspect that something as simple as a large, grassy, open space would do the tricky excellently.

See Dyan's pic from Vancouver, for example?

Keep the red fences and gates to add to the park-like feel. Plus, they're mega-historic (cf. stories of local good-time gals and US servicemen accomplishing astonishing…

things need to be rushed through without the necessary thought.

That IS Nationals forte after all.

Geez don't get me started on the stupidity of that move.

Ditto.
And, of course that previous comment should have been,
"we are NOT all athletes you know."
NOTTUB TIDE (if I say it…

Totally agree jarbury but I would add, A Bus Station.

There's one across the road

Cross the road, we are nat all athletes you know.
;-)

Not to mention diverting public transport funding into building more highways.

Geez don't get me started on the stupidity of that move.

And no, the infrastructure problems haven't been sorted, although vehicle numbers are down on the roads, public transport ridership is booming and the government…

I do think Mayors do tend to like some sort of monument for their time in office

That's called the Edifice Complex. (Thank you... I'll be here the rest of the week.)

Now.... about what to put there. As you say sofie, Open the Gates ASAP, let people explore the area…

There is an interesting tension between the whole "damn it takes forever to do anything in this city" feeling and the "not enough consultation, why hasn't my voice been heard" feeling. You can't easily have it both ways.

Somehow there's a link between this inherent contradiction and the "Quarter Acre…

This whole Queens Wharf issue should have been sorted out about…

Are we agreeing on something? Stop it! :) But you've got it: I'm not some anti-development Luddite, but if my rates are going to go up 7% a year for the foreseeable future, I'd love to have some idea where the hell its going. The, shall we say, "strategic…

BTW, where's the Auckland Transition Authority in all this? I can't see how anyone could credibly argue that there's no ongoing financial impact on the new Council. Banksie's pretty much promised it.

That is what I think is the problem. In general (because Aucklanders are just like that) we don't…

Given it's in Auckland, I'd say an IMAX screen or five, a food court, branches of all leading chainstores and convenient parking for 5000 cars.

You forgot the celebrities.

Totally agree jarbury but I would add, A Bus Station.

There's one across the road.

Given it's in Auckland, I'd say an IMAX screen or five, a food court, branches of all leading chainstores and convenient parking for 5000 cars.

When I visit Western Springs Park, Cornwall Park or the…

what would get people to flock to this area on a sunny summer's Sunday afternoon?

Given it's in Auckland, I'd say an IMAX screen or five, a food court, branches of all leading chainstores and convenient parking for 5000 cars.

Was that not the answer you sought?

Well, it's off for a refit, anyway. Waterfront looks very empty without it.

I suspect that something as simple as a large, grassy, open space would do…

None of these were anywhere the entertainment landscape of the 20th century, but once they arrived there was one stadium able to cash in on it.

I felt the same way about the would-be Stadium New Zealand in Auckland — although I'd have been inclined to add value with decent…

J. O. K. E.

Sure, but you'd grant that its not a subject most Tainui would have a sense of humour about?

That land is now all built over. I have no idea where they are going to marshall the necessary goods trains in the future either.

Once the Fibre Network is built, goods will travel by Internet.

In other news, they're going to build a motorway through Taupiri mountain. Who could possibly object?

@ChrisW: I was being facietious. I don't believe that even Rodney Hide would dig a cut & cover (we'll put the bodies back after) trench through there.
They're going round the back

I…

As far as I understand, economic theory says capital spending on large projects is a good thing during a recession.

You can find an "economic theory" to justify absolutely anything. Meanwhile, nice to John Banks being [http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10578709l|unexpectedly candid]]:

Mr Banks said strengthening the wharf and building first-class cruise ships facilities, open…

It's not just the need for wharves, over the last few decades the railways have closed and sold off for development most of the large marshalling and goods yards as they lost trade to the truckers. That land is now all built over. I have no idea where…

or, at least,
replete
on shore-

The article begins with the picture of a region suffering from “economic underperformance, blighted urban planning and social dysfunction” – all of it, Wilson implies, the dystopic residue of incompetent “local fiefdoms”. He has…

Can't we dream bigger than making room for another 30-odd cruise ships and welcoming another few thousand rich, elderly Americans?

A swim in the tide.
At lunchtime.
That would be cool.
And unique.

I took a dip in the waterfront tide once.
After a dragon-boat race.
I stank of diesel.
For some time.

seems it's inconsistent from what I can tell

Matt, probably best to ask Russell – we reported some of the behaviour a while ago and he can relay that.

A swim in the tide.
At lunchtime.
That would be cool.
And unique.

I think it has always functioned like that. I usually put an extra space in to avoid that problem. Onespace. Two spaces.

Thanks for reporting this, seems it's inconsistent from what I can tell, we'll take a look.

Best use of a... John Farnham song in a recent film

Sort of irrelevant sidebar: Danny McBride, the TV looter in the final moments of that clip, is my new favourite person. Friends in America (TM) are able to send you Eastbound & Down , which is six half-hour episodes of…

I tend to think of the Wellington Railway Station concourse & booking hall as interior public spaces,

I agree with Tom on that one, especially after its recent tidying up. It's also one of the busiest areas in Wellington. I use that space almost daily and not so much because of…

Relished the place!

Copenhagen I enjoyed; and Amsterdam. London _ well,…

"merely passing on code that looks to be good work."

http://extrafuture.com/2009/06/15/how-to-set-up-an-anonymous-proxy-for-iranians-using-squid-on-mac-os-x/

There's a link to Windows instructions also.

If it breaks everything – please don't have at me – merely passing what looks to be good work.

after selected passate

Um, passage.

Slinking off in tech/typing disgrace now.

so the bit before the quoted passage looks like this:

Er, apologies Luke, I screwed that up by activating the damn thing with my example. It should look like this but just imagine the word "quote" instead of "goat"

Before selected passage:

after selected passate

They're going round the back

I think we're slipping, frankly

Not at all – Mr Judd only just explained paralipsis and now we have another example to consolidate the lesson.

In other news, they're going to build a motorway through Taupiri mountain. Who could possibly object?

Don't think so. The map published with link is clear enough, in that it shows the planned expressway rejoining the current SH1 at the northern edge of Taupiri. Taupiri mountain is further north with…

I felt the same way about the would-be Stadium New Zealand in Auckland — although I'd have been inclined to add value with decent conference facilities

And were that to be proposed as a stand-alone concept, entirely divorced from the RWC, then it may well have stood up and become…

remember drunken teachers reeking of tobacco?

Private boys school then, Steve?

No. No it isn't. Where on earth did you get the impression that I intended to dispel any impression of snobbery?

Well, to be honest, anybody who calls sports fans munters as a general term really shouldn't bother talking about sports stadiums; it's the same sort of animals attitude that…

And I do suspect that, even given the qualms about its cost now, Dunedinites will find plenty of uses for a stadium with a roof.

Yeah, I can't deny that side appeals. I'm not against the stadium somuch as slightly disappointed in the council firstly, showing a lack of foresight…

We're focused on the Auckland debate in the media in this week's Media7. The panel includes Simon Wilson, author of the pro-Supercity cover story in the current Metro…

None of these were anywhere the entertainment landscape of the 20th century, but once they arrived there was one stadium able to cash in on it.

I felt the same way about the would-be Stadium New Zealand in Auckland — although I'd have been inclined to add value with decent…

I think you'll find most of us in Dunedin who oppose the local stadium are not really against actually having a stadium (after all we already have one, did you see the game on Saturday? it was sold out, the new one will be a little smaller) – what we…

Also, on the subject of snobbery, how working class is an event with $1400 tickets?

beer drinkers will leave the Backbencher much poorer but not much drunker as they serve the most expensive beer around. Try the Occidental on Lambton Quay instead.

Really? Try Leuven or the Malthouse for some properly expensive beer. I'm not sure that the Poxy Oxy has much worth drinking: mostly…

By the way, how do you get other people's quotes to be in grey text with that groovy little pinstripe alongside?

Like that?

After loging in (within the comments box) – before the passage you want to appear as quotes

1) type this symbol: <
2) then type the actual word: quote
3) close with the corresponding symbol >
so the bit before the quoted…

(which is where most of the munters ... oops, I mean "dedicated sports fans")

Yeah, um, this isn't really dispelling the whole snobbery thing, is it?

What’s its most profitable arm? No, it’s not All Black tests, it’s the Sevens. And when the stadium was conceived…

By the way, italic stuff is not quite right? I had a space between the closing underbars and the word stuff.

I think it has always functioned like that. I usually put an extra space in to avoid that problem. One space. Two spaces.

now that's got imagination! I think every roundabout should have a bath. It would make Auckland a tourist mecca.

Damn! I didn't even know what a creative genius I was until you pointed it out to me.

The Molesworth area (Backbencher, Thistle and ... that's about it) doesn't really add up to a "Leezure area". ...

Not exactly adjacent, especially when you count the long trudge along the concourse, but better than Auckland's situation.

I took Russell's comment "proximity of the stadium to Wellington's leisure precinct" to…

The Backbencher's a five minute walk I'd say — don't know how you're getting Customhouse Quay as the closest leisure facility. Certainly the Fever never had any problem getting from a pub to the stadium on foot.

The Molesworth area (Backbencher, Thistle and ... that's about it) doesn't really add…

The Backbencher's a five minute walk

You gotta imagine there's a bar called The Dockers Punch or something considerably closer. Or would have been in the good old days when industrial workers went for two pints before work, three at lunchtime and nine after...

Yes, I think we need to…

It's 1.5km from the nearest "leezure" area at Customhouse Quay and nearly 3km from Courtney Place.

The Backbencher's a five minute walk I'd say — don't know how you're getting Customhouse Quay as the closest leisure facility. Certainly the Fever never had any problem getting from a pub to the…

Offices, gyms and even cafes are not public space. (Any more than the Canary Wharf tower in London is a public space just because it includes a train station and shopping mall).

Train stations and the like are an interesting case: I tend to think of the Wellington Railway Station…

Apropos the SH1 re-routing: the map is too sketchy and the text too vague. But ko Taupiri te maunga , there's no way in hell Tainui would take that lying down.

And the wharves *are* usable public property.

How so? They're locked and won't let me walk through them. That's *usable public*?

You can't walk through Eden Park when there isn't a game on, for instance.

Eden Park is owned by the Eden Park Trust – it's not public property. IIRC…

In other news, they're going to build a motorway through Taupiri mountain. Who could possibly object?

Well, I might--and possibly Tainui and all those folk who relatives buried on the mountain.

The ghost of Billy T's chuckle echoes...

proximity of the stadium to Wellington's leisure precinct

What?

It's 1.5km from the nearest "leezure" area at Customhouse Quay and nearly 3km from Courtney Place.

Really? Doesn't seem that far, but you could be right. But friends and I have walked out of the cake tin after a match and…

In other news, they're going to build a motorway through Taupiri mountain. Who could possibly object?

Well, I might--and possibly Tainui and all those folk who relatives buried on the mountain.

Couldn't believe it when I took a turn down a side street off Cardiff's main drag, and there was bloody Cardiff Arms Park! Unbelievable!

Not there for much longer, from what I hear. The developments on Cardiff Bay are probably a good example of how NOT to re-develop docklands--a hodge-podge…

Couldn't believe it when I took a turn down a side street off Cardiff's main drag, and there was bloody Cardiff Arms Park! Unbelievable!

Not there for much longer, from what I hear. The developments on Cardiff Bay are probably a good example of how NOT to re-develop docklands--a hodge-podge…

You can't walk through Eden Park when there isn't a game on, for instance. Offices, gyms and even cafes are not public space. (Any more than…

"Public space" was the catchcry back then too.

You're thinking about stadia only as they look towards the playing field in the middle.

And sometimes even that is public: the Basin Reserve is a pedestrian and bike shortcut when a game's not on, and the grass berms are used for eating lunch or lounging in the sun.

I guess having some sort of cruise ship terminal and bar area is reasonable. It's certainly more of a public open space than a stadium, which is no more than a commercial building for the sport industry (How much public access do current stadia have? None at all?)

You're thinking…

It's 1.5km from the nearest "leezure" area at Customhouse Quay and nearly 3km from Courtney Place.

Still a lot closer than Porirua. Could have been done with more reference to making the stadium interface with the city though, as you note.

proximity of the stadium to Wellington's leisure precinct

What?

It's 1.5km from the nearest "leezure" area at Customhouse Quay and nearly 3km from Courtney Place.

And, talking of the caketin, a visit will dispel any idea that stadia are "public open space". High wire fences on most sides, and a…

There is also the untested assumption that without buildings the public won't use the area.

Big wide open spaces aren't very appealing, whether it's a car park or a playing field. Spaces need things in them – people, buildings, sculptures, businesses, seats.

The Meridian buildings on Wellington's waterfront has a…

now is not the perfect time to invest in this kind of stuff

As far as I understand, economic theory says capital spending on large projects is a good thing during a recession.

The peasants like Loigue anyway... and football (but that's mainly the immigrants)

Very true. Eden Park is quite full of toffs.

As for the topic, it's like all the fools who talked down the Wellington stadium ...

My favourites were the ones who insisted that it should be in Porirua.

Now of course, the proximity of the stadium to Wellington's leisure precinct is almost universally regarded as A Great Thing.

Rugby World Cup may provide some timely leverage (and the holders of our public purse always seem enthralled by claimed economic benefits of leisure events), but I suspect…

the butt-ugly "pohutukawa flower" thingy

I am the only person in the world who loves that thingy!

It can come and be installed in my garden any time.

Is there money in the budget for an old man on a bicycle to open them each morning?

Rofflenui. Neighbours alarmed.

Take a few folding tables and chairs down to areas of the waterfront that we want…

deep in their hearts they know their city is unpardonably ugly and dysfunctional.

Pardon? As a card-carrying South Islander living in this lovely city, I beg to differ. Sea breezes and ocean views outside my front door... lots of green spaces and gorgeous parks... the odd beach even apparently. What…

Nope.

Interesting. I didn't know that. I thought the central government was intending to introduce special legislation or use the special provisions in the RMA but then didn't once it became a hot potato.

Either way, someone should demolish Eden Park. Take it behind a barn and shoot it. Anything.…

I also note, the *special* liftout in the Herald today outlining the development of the Tankfarm. While I might…

Now I think you'll find it is the other way around. It seems that once Auckland City heard about it they immediately leaked "details" to the press about how much it was going to cost 100 mill + was the figure floating around.

Nope. From the Wikipedia article on the…

Groovy little instructions in grey next to the posting box.
;-)

I'm in your debt Mr Barnes. I always fail to read all the instructions, hence many unnecessary mishaps.

Anything that turns those eyesores of car laden wharves into usable public property has got to be a good thing

I'm guessing that most of the Aucklanders on here own cars, right? (I suppose there might be such a thing as a carless Aucklander, but am yet to meet one).…

I don't quite get the hostility towards public waterfront space.

The Wellington local authorities had some horrific ideas for sun and view-blocking high rises. They also claim that restaurants and bars can be considered public space. There is also the untested assumption that without buildings the public won't use the…

According to the anon editorial in today's DomPost, why yes "it"* is.

* for many values of "it"

I believe the correct value of "it" in this case is "everything", up to and including global warming. Or the conspiracy to make the public believe in global warming. Whichever you prefer.

I cannot understand why the visionless Auckland City leaders refused goverment cash to build an asset for Auckland.

To be fair, it was the Auckland City leaders who said yes please, and the ARC that decided it might inconvenience the importers of used cars.

The "party central", which, again, was going to happen anyway, is for the RWC. The acquisition has laid the ground for further development afterwards. Why do you have envisage the most pessimistic and unappealing scenario?

Because Auckland specialises in bringing to fruition the most pessimistic and unappealing scenarios. But bring…

The acquisition has laid the ground for further development afterwards. Why do you have envisage the most pessimistic and unappealing scenario possible?

I don't understand where all the naysayers and doom-merchants are coming from. Anything that turns those eyesores of car laden wharves into usable public property has got to…

The Mallard proposal may or may not been a good idea. Personally, I was in favour of it because every…

where they took out a road

Blasphemy – there is a special hell for those who don't properly worship the car.

Wasn't the Viaduct basin built as "party central" for a previous publically subsidised sporting defeat? Is it not suitable for the RWC for some reason?

It'll be used, of course, but there's not much public space there. The last Diwali festivities were crammed in there, and for all the colour…

It's learned helplessness. I call it battered-citizens syndrome.

I'll try and remember to credit you when I use that.

And don't get me started on Goff.

OMG. Is this his fault too?

According to the anon editorial in today's DomPost, why yes "it"* is.

* for many values of "it"

Sure it will take effort and time to make sure it doesn't get stuffed up.

And…

But you know what would have been really cool? A stadium within a stone's throw of the party zone.

Definitely. I run through Kingsland and by Eden Park almost every night and think "how can this possibly be expected to do the job?" That stadium is a dog and we're…

It looks that way to me too. There does seem to be a bit of a consensus from the non-Aucklanders here. Namely, what wrong with you?

And that's without even mentioning the people they elect for mayor.

It looks that way to me too. There does seem to be a bit of a consensus from the non-Aucklanders here. Namely, what wrong with you?

We're not all against it, and I'm pleased at the move to secure Queens Wharf. But given that we'll be stuck with the thing…

Dear Auckland,

I don’t get it.

You get offered some central money to develop and improve your city, just like what happened with the Waterfront Stadium.

You’re getting this offer on the back of a national event around the corner, even though you’re getting over half the good bits of…

And I don't think converting Queens Wharf into a public open space is neccesarily a bad idea. I'm not sure on converting it into a…

Not wanting to talk too much about Wellington, but thank god there are an awful lot of new buildings there. It means it gets used,…