They aren't, they're wholly owned by the people of NZ, and I for one think sonme of that money should be spread where it's needed.

I don't disagree with more money going to all schools, rather than just to some. I'll vote for an increase in school funding to come…

Among other things, Auckland Grammar has "an investment fund aimed at generating an annual income to be used to attract, reward and retain quality teaching staff", a bequest system, a foundation to hold the donations in perpuity, and they've recently built an Old Boys Pavilion and a new sports facility.…

The fag was a 3rd former who served the prefect/7th former & any cannings were given by the prefect.

I've got a mate whos parents will pay for his son to go & keep the family tradition but he's going state. Absolutely hated his…

If only I'd realised that whilst I was actually there, I might have been less horrible to others on several occasions. Oh look, a chance to link this again.

It's time for the odd to get even!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw6zrInbtQE

Sometimes, adolescence isn't that wonderful and hell is oneself and other people no matter where you are.

This is the thing, really – I've hardly met anyone who didn't have some kind of beef with the way that school played out for them. Personally, only after I'd been out of…

And re the private school thing. Three generations of the males in my family were sent to board at Christs College, but it just seemed to make them incredibly miserable. Is it any better these days?

Possibly not. Then again, would they have been happy anywhere? Sometimes, adolescence isn't that…

Genuine question, I'm trying to work out why Grammar is supposedly more desirable and "betterer" than a similar sized low-decile school. Conceptually the lower decile school will be better funded – the counters to that seem to be private donations and nature of the kids attending.

Lower decile schools are…

the ministry not initiating negotiations with the NZEI for the a new Support Staff agreement even though there old one has expired.

And possibly even worse the Government recently stopped the work on pay equity for school support staff. Support staff are some of the lowest paid workers, earning the…

However, I would never send any kids of mine to private school (with a possible exception…

Maybe I'm being a little paranoid here but an example of this is already happening with the ministry not initiating negotiations with the NZEI for the a new Support Staff agreement even though there old one has expired.

Expired collective contracts aren't exactly news in the public sector. Career fire…

Up until the late 70's, there had been four or five secondary modern (11-16) schools and one selective grammar school. They could have turned these into 12-18 comprehensives (which would have…

I'd say Veitch's statement to the media could be summarised as "I'm sorry I got caught".

I agree with you....

But I think you'll find the whole do you / dont you actually, in your brain, accept responsibility thing can only have an affect at parole hearings....

At sentencing, you…

About this whole private/public school thing – I went to both sorts.

As did I, although in a slightly different order – I was public right through to my last year when I became a "guinea pig" for the first year of a new private school. And as good as…

While you may have an insight to his real feelings on the subject, its a bit hard to say, legally, that someone who pleads guilty hasnt accepted his guilt, no?

I'd say Veitch's statement to the media could be summarised as "I'm sorry I got caught".

(what happened to refusal to accept guilt being an aggravating factor?)

While you may have an insight to his real feelings on the subject, its a bit hard to say, legally, that someone who pleads guilty hasnt accepted his guilt, no?

The thing I never understood about the NZ education system, especially in light of the smacking bill, is how they force children as young as 5 or 6 to assemble outside in temperatures as low as 5° wearing shorts. You're not allowed to smack…

Point #1:

"It is unmoved by the high standards delivered to all sections of society by mature markets for practically everything else."

'It'…

Tamaki had ok teachers and some very good…

It is something we should be proud of, and not put at risk by…

Le figlie di Maria son le prime a darla via.
(But you didn't hear it from me.)

heheh. Not far off, at all. Though the secular were just as interested. ;-)

When I was a teen, you expected to lose one or two from the peer group to premature parenthood.…

I presume there are studies that attempt to level external factors and determine the best-fit indicator of educational success?

No Google-foo here either but I think the big longitudinal Chch study showed it purely comes down to wealth of the students' families – which generally correlates well but not universally…

Seems no-one told them about the incidence of teenage pregnancy among good catholic teens left to their own devices...

Le figlie di Maria son le prime a darla via.

(But you didn't hear it from me.)

The so called elite “Boys” school’s seem to dominate the thread, how does it work in the equivalent girls school world?

There is an interview in today’s DomPost with Roger Moses the principal of Wellington and while there are things I…

All but two of the "masters" were incompetents…

Apart from the poor sods who went there.

Well, they had to come up with some way to brighten their lives.

I would say the Wellington equivalent of Auckland Grammar is Wellington College; not *quite* as posh, but they wish they were, and every bit as up themselves. I went…

Well…

Note: that isn't libellous, he has just been convicted of a violent criminal offence. Unfortunately not jailed (what happened to refusal to accept guilt being an aggravating factor?) but maybe he'll Archer himself at some stage.

You may be the first ever person to equate Scots with Collegiate and Christs.

Apart from the poor sods who went there.

Actually I think the 'we need to let in more sons of old boys' actually means 'there be too many asians here.'

Well sucked in to them then 'cos now there's a ton of Asian old boys. :D

It seems to me that high-decile schools are the ones that show up in Highest Score, Biggest Scholarship type reporting – this…

(But then again, when my daughter went to a dec 10 primary school in Auckland, just the primary…

You may be the first ever person to equate Scots with Collegiate and Christs.

Right, Giovanni, so Decile 10 schools are "less desirable" because the nature of the kids attending makes teaching more difficult?

Yes. Privileged families would like their children to mix with children of other privileged families. Nothing new there. Whether that leads to excellence in teaching and learning, that is an…

I'm trying to work out why Grammar is supposedly more desirable and "betterer" than a similar sized low-decile school

A lot of it is perception, that Grammar boys are somehow enhanced simply by being on the premises. It's not unique to Grammar – Christ's is similar in Chch, and W(h)anganui…

Genuine question, I'm trying to work out why Grammar is supposedly more desirable and "betterer" than a similar sized low-decile school. Conceptually the lower decile school will be better funded…

observing that the Autistic kids could find a normal school environment very distressing.

That's very true. And putting them somewhere else (where they can be more easily ignored) is so much easier than fixing the "normal" school.

Oh great now there's going to be some National cabinet minister actually asking that question ....

Well, yes, because they all read PAS for inspiration...

So where is the supposed educational benefit to a Decile 10 school?

Having kids of higher socioeconomic status, that (on average) come from families where education is more promoted and valued, and are therefore easier to teach. You also get far fewer ESL kids and also fewer special needs kids…

Surely it should be given the additional recognition of becoming a decile 11 or 12 school.

Oh great now there's going to be some National cabinet minister actually asking that question ....

the element controls on my cooktop go to twelve.

Well yes, because you purchased said cooktop in a good God-fearing market economy...

Surely it should be given the additional recognition of becoming a decile 11 or 12 school.

Our deciles go up to eleven!

Way off topic, the element controls on my cooktop go to twelve.

Reason #1 is right there.

Damn that Post button eh? Just too easy to click sometimes (never been there myself...:)

Reason #2 is that I don't believe that the wealthy (and anyone who can afford private education on top of all the other costs of bringing up kids is wealthy,…

Sir,

I recently found out that my old school, Auckland Grammar, which my sons now attend, is only classed in decile 10. I regard it as wrong that an excellent school like this is kept down with lesser schools in the…

even considered introducing a school uniform to meet parental expectations

If a school doesn't have a uniform and a group of parents want one, what's to stop them all settling on one for their kids. Something like this?

(Ok, I'm told that some schools have to have their kids wear…

It appears I mistook "tongue in cheek" for "dick".

Ooh er Missus!

I think as well that they imply that because Maori and Pacific Islanders are dropping in enrollments at Auckland Grammar, they are falling behind in social development and educational achievement. Which might be the case or it might not be, but Grammar enrollments surely aren't the clincher.

I think people…

The strength of the teacher unions infuriated politicians in the 1990s seeking to implement a market model of education, full bulk funding etc. Much precious school money in those days…

some of the anti-private school rhetoric regarding motivations of schools and parents is tending a little toward wolfy smith.

I personally don't have much of a problem with private schools. There can be advantages to being able to offer something genuinely different, and if there had been a private school…

Actually I think the 'we need to let in more sons of old boys' actually means 'there be too many asians here.'

Like David Do?

However is it not natural that teachers should take an interest in what they are teaching, as they are trained in education and working in the field?

We are in the bad reruns again. The opposite of the…

it doesn't matter how high your horse is, the view is never black and white.

Alan – which ones? Genuinely curious.

Me too. Which generalisations rather than which schools, I mean.

It's also a spectacularly lazy means of argument. Rather than engage with what people with direct knowledge…

Private schools have a very strong social element, obviously aimed at entrenchement of class hegemony.

Damn, and here I forgot to be indoctrinated. Me with my ritzy teacher parents. Clearly I interrogated my schooling from the wrong perspective .

And Rich – one of the limitations of blog posts/msg boards…

ou are right – there is no causal link between the decile rating and the educational or teacher standards. The systrem measures the average incomes of families in the school zone (or attending the school).

I know. But people like Rougham pretend their (alleged) success is due to better teaching…

Eddie: private schooling isn't what it's cracked up to be, as far as my own experiences are concerned.

From an educational standpoint, I totally agree. In that respect the private school I (breifly) went to was no better than the public. However, that's just one aspect. Private schools have a…

I think Stephen and ex-expat might have a point, but I understood that one of the things the decile-10 schools spent our tax money on was sending scouts to various Pacific Islands to snag their best young rugby players and give them…

I don't believe that the decile-10 schools actually provide a better education or have better teachers.

You are right – there is no causal link between the decile rating and the educational or teacher standards. The systrem measures the average incomes of families in the school zone (or attending the…

I think it's more elitist than racist, as its mostly an exercise in cherry picking. There also seems something wrong in taking students who should have leadership roles in other schools and sending them to Grammar.

This is a very important point. "Success" becomes the creation of deficit in local…

I don't believe that the decile-10 schools actually provide a better education or have better teachers. They firstly have more tractable, easier-to-teach kids and secondly, enable their graduates to gain entry to an old-boy network.

Is there a way of comparing schools in the same deciles (literacy & numeracy datasets)?

Whilst…

I agree. The small class sizes were great for me, but from talking to my brother and friends at other schools, the quality of teaching or resourcing were not noticeably higher.

Tom, I can only speak from experience, and my experience is that my private schooling was not any 'better' than that my brother got at a public school. But my personality as a teenager was such (I've…

I found this in part a bit racist- that the only sign of Maori and Pacific Island education achievement would be the percentage who were getting entry to Auckland Grammar.

I think it's more elitist than racist, as its mostly an exercise in cherry picking. There also seems something wrong…

1/ Buying advantage for your children over and above their abilities is wrong in a democratic society.

2/ Those who are privately educated and privately educate their kids have…

Among the perverse social consequences of the profession's engineering is a reduction in the number of Maori and Pacific Island pupils at Auckland Grammar.

James Green, Roughan quotes this in his article as above. I found this in part a bit racist- that the only sign of Maori and Pacific…

Of course you and your parents were entitled to their share of the tax vote. But if y'all want to duplicate that expense on a private school, don't ask me to subsidise that extravagance with my share of the tax vote, which my oldest daughter is happily enjoying to…

Reason 1: Ouch. Was that really called for? Do you deeply dislike me or find me horribly offensive?

I was going to respond substantively, but I don't really feel like being personally attacked all afternoon, so I'll leave this thread alone.

I don't believe that the decile-10 schools actually provide a better education or have better teachers.

I agree. There are a lot of aspects to a good education and all the research I've read puts it down to good relationships between kids and teachers. A good friendly inclusive school with…

I wonder if you have any specific reasons for wanting to ban private schools. I went to one

Reason #1 is right there.

Reason #2 is that I don't believe that the wealthy (and anyone who can afford private education on top of all the other costs of bringing up…

Not so good, of course, if it's your local school that "dies" while your children are attending it. But disaster capitalism always has it casualties, right?

It's all a bit Underpants Gnomes really
Choice
+
?????
=
Magically balanced school system in an upwards spiral of choice-induced improvement mania!!!

I…

I wonder if you have any specific reasons for wanting to ban private schools. I went to one, with two working parents paying for it, neither of whom was paid a forture. Private schools are subsidised by the state, yes, but at a much lower rate than public ones.…

I don't think I'm using 'good' and 'bad' in the same sense as John Roughan.

Gold.

"ambitious parents"

A chill runs down my spine.

Yeah, I heard the principal of Grammar on the radio a few days ago, and he used this phrase 3 times in about 3 minutes. I'm pretty sure it's code for something approximating "our sort of people."

Bugger. GRAMMAR

Bugger grammar, really reckons I.

Schools like Selwyn (not to mention alternative schools, which don't really exist in NZ) make…

"every person, whatever his level of academic ability, whether he be rich or poor, whether he live in town or country, has a right, as a citizen, to a free education…

A chill runs down my spine.