Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Occupy: Don't call it a protest

312 Responses

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  • andin, in reply to DCBCauchi,

    Young, dumb, and full of come. Wind them up and point them in the right direction. That's how the generals think

    Most young males are. Sometimes they grow out of it or else you get old, dumb etc...

    raglan • Since Mar 2007 • 1890 posts Report Reply

  • DCBCauchi,

    http://www.police.govt.nz/service/ethnic-information/rights/english

    Short answer as I understand: If you are in a public place and are stopped by the police, you can ask why you are being questioned and refuse to answer any questions they ask. Whoever you are. I do not think you have to give your name and address. If they cite the Misuse of Drugs Act and have reasonable cause, they can search you.

    The police have no right to harass you. Nor require you to explain yourself to them, especially if you are going about your lawful business. Be firm and polite.

    They’re there for you, not you for them, despite what they might think. And beware their self-serving definitions of ‘respect’ and ‘attitude’. Remember any identifying marks they might have and don’t let them talk to you out of other people’s hearing.

    But I could be wrong. Maybe we live in a police state.

    Since Feb 2011 • 320 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to DCBCauchi,

    I do not think you have to give your name and address.

    wrong.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19735 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to DCBCauchi,

    I do not think you have to give your name and address.

    Name, address, date of birth, and occupation. You don't have to give them anything further, and you don't have to stay and talk to them unless they say they're questioning you pursuant to a particular enactment. You are, however, free to leave at any time unless they arrest you.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • DCBCauchi, in reply to Sacha,

    I do not think you have to give your name and address.

    wrong.

    Yeah, that I couldn’t remember offhand. And it’s a quite reasonable requirement. (Though I do have a story of it being used unreasonably.)

    I did notice that the police website’s information was a little light on relevant details but big on reassurance they have our best interests at heart, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. Wonder why that could be. Oops, someone else who’s destroyed trust and respect perhaps? Then discovered they actually need it and so try to require it of people without earning it?

    [Snap: Excellent authoritative sounding summary from Matthew.]

    Since Feb 2011 • 320 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    Rumour has it the council free wifi spot in the Octagon stopped working a while ago this evening. For those interested the (council) webcam overlooking the occupy area is at:
    http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/council-online/webcams/octagon

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to DCBCauchi,

    Wonder why that could be.

    It's aimed at migrants who distrust police from their home country?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19735 posts Report Reply

  • DCBCauchi, in reply to Sacha,

    It’s aimed at migrants who distrust police from their home country?

    Cos nothing like what happens in other countries happens here eh? It's not the NZ way. Nothing like nasty police state England where police informers infiltrate groups of people exercising their democratic right to protest, encourage them into illegal acts, and then rat them out and lie in court?

    So let's reassure the migrants nothing at all like that happens here. Cos it doesn't. Nothing to see here, just move along.

    Since Feb 2011 • 320 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole,

    Immediately relevant right now, the official advice from the Minister and the Police themselves is that it's not illegal to video or photograph police officers at work, provided you're on public property or have permission from the owner of private property.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • DCBCauchi, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Yes, good to have clarified. Especially the note about obstruction.

    I particularly liked: ‘However one concern remains. Police training does not cover this issue and it seems that some officers feel free to make up their own powers as they go. We recommend that the NZ Police should make sure that this is included in initial and continuing training.’

    I reckon most police are ordinary people trying to do their best in trying circumstances. What else would they be? Monsters?

    The problem is inadequate resourcing and ineffective leadership, compounded by an insular adversarial ‘thin blue line against chaos’ culture. And people make bad decisions when they’re under pressure and not properly supported, especially when they’re repeatedly told by the people they should listen to that they can do no wrong. And even more when there’s no personal responsibility for those decisions.

    Since Feb 2011 • 320 posts Report Reply

  • Christopher Dempsey,

    Okay, wearing my elected rep hat here:

    Actually, public spaces are for everyone, whether they last their jobs in the crisis or not.

    And what Occupy are doing is a shit load more important than a nice empty lawn to look at. Nobody said don’t come down and eat your lunch, and for those of us who don’t have decent work at he moment, we’re employing ourselves advocating the rights of everyone, including you buggers, so be grateful for a change, look up at who is responsible for things being the way they are, rather than falling for the propaganda and blaming some imaginary class of evil poor people on benefits.

    My view, not entirely shared by all my collegues, is that Aotea Square is a public space, and like all public spaces (footpaths, roads, parks, plazas etc) has two functions. The first is the provision of passage or rest and respite. The second is as a place of expressing ideals of the civic , where anyone (because it is a public space) can express their views provided it doesn't offend terribly.

    Occupy Auckland is, if you like, a function of the fact that Aotea Square is a civic space. To be even-handed, I would not mind if equally a large group of suits decided to camp there to protest something or other. The fact is, anyone occupying or demonstrating in the space is exhibiting a committment to civics, those lofty ideals of freedom of expression and democratic expression.

    From this point I don't mind Occupy Auckland being there, quite apart from my support of the demonstration, because they are expressing something valuable for the rest of us.

    Some politicians are worried about the grass. My advice; the square was recently re-furbished. If Council failed to understand that the square is a civic space, and will from time to time play 'host' to demonstrations, then it is not a problem of Occupy Auckland or anyone else. It is a problem of Council in failing to properly understand the different functions of the space.

    I am hoping however, the some smart person has understood the particular functions, and has made budgetary provisions for repair and replacement of the grass; it is a small price to be paid for the continued demonstration and exercise of civic rights.

    Doffing said hat.

    Being personal:

    David Hood, About 2 hours ago

    Does anyone (in the next hour and a half) know a rights website which outlines the powers of the Police if one is in the Octagon but not camping or erecting tents at 8pm? Asking on behalf of people for whom this may soon be relevant.

    Ask Penny Bright. She's every occupiers best friend when it comes to the law, and most councillors best friend when it comes to the law as well.

    Parnell / Tamaki-Auckland… • Since Sep 2008 • 659 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    Word back from the Octagon is that, at least for the moment, the police are not too keen to act hurriedly on a tresspass notice against camping and erecting tents, when you have rather a lot of the people there doing neither.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    Immediately relevant right now, the official advice from the Minister and the Police themselves is that it’s not illegal to video or photograph police officers at work, provided you’re on public property or have permission from the owner of private property.

    So it's more akin to, "I don't like your spiky hairdo one bit."

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5439 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

    Indeed "It's complicated" via
    Otago Daily Times

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Certainly in the public statements, the police seem to be quite reasonable at the moment. They could have gone in and moved them out, and it would have looked terrible, they're still hopeful of a happier resolution.

    Personally, as a Dunedin citizen, I don't mind if they stay there until Xmas. There's a lot of people complaining about their loss of their public recreational space who wouldn't have sat on the grass in the Octagon in their life. The protesters aren't exactly scary.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Free parking...
    If the Occupy folk had to move from Aotea Square
    wouldn't Myers Park, near the top of Queen street,
    be the next best place to go and as I recall it was a
    designated free speech area if not people's park...
    still has a fair bit of passing traffic and isn't at all
    far from the madding K'road...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7948 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    But that would defeat the purpose surely?
    I would prefer to see the occupy the Fay Richwhite building, it would be so symbolic.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    One of the many points about Occupy is that they have chosen their sites carefully to be central city and near major financial institutions. Hence Wellington's is not at parliament but across the road from the stock exchange.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3222 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    One of the many points about Occupy is that they have chosen their sites carefully to be central city and near major financial institutions. Hence Wellington’s is not at parliament but across the road from the stock exchange.

    As mentioned earlier in this thread, there was a one-off gathering outside the Reserve Bank. I’d have thought 1 The Terrace and other ‘economic consultants’ down the road would have been ripe for occupation too.

    I would prefer to see the occupy the Fay Richwhite building, it would be so symbolic.

    Not sure they have such an overt presence here these days, but the point is clear. The building they used to own is now tenanted by an Aussie insurance company.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5439 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Not sure they have such an overt presence here these days, but the point is clear. The building they used to own is now tenanted by an Aussie insurance company.

    Sir Mickey Fay says he wants to by the Crafar farms "to keep them in NZ hands" Irony.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Not sure they have such an overt presence here these days, but the point is clear. The building they used to own is now tenanted by an Aussie insurance company.

    That’d be 151 Queen St, right? One of the Council requirements for Fay Richwhite’s ‘crunchy bar’ was that it include child care facilities in the form of a day care centre or creche. When its absence was noted at the time of the building’s 1988 opening the developers cited technical difficulties, though they had no problem including a tennis court. As with so many of the ‘accidental’ demolitions of heritage architecture back in those heady days, the Council was very understanding.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    When its absence was noted

    Didn't they turn it into an internal corporate gym? Fine example of gender priorities in action.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19735 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Sacha,

    an internal corporate gym

    bloody number crunchers
    with their vaulting ambitions...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7948 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Anyone catch the news a couple of days ago that ALL the major trading banks operating in New Zealand have reported record profits this year? The guy from ANZ - whose profit had topped $1b for the first time - was asked if this meant that New Zealand customers were being ripped off, and his reply was basically "Don't worry; it's just an accounting trick"!

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    ANZ/NATIONAL runs free business education corses. I attended one recently and found it usefull to my small enterprise.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4442 posts Report Reply

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