yeah ben what comic book did that come from? i'm sorry pal but from your defence which primarily consists of twisting words or phrases into something very different you're showing your…

russell is letting his experience of the challenges of bringing up autistic children colour his world view, so he can't possibly comment on the smacking thing.

....you could argue all sorts of erroneous…

how many people reading thsi column would support its reintroduction..i suspect none becos most contributors here are so called woolly academics

I wouldn't, because I think it's wrong, not because I'm a woolly academic, whatever that is.

that "vexes" me , like 1 i read the other day that said…

Oh hai Mr McCroskie, an article in USA Today says that spanking may lead to sexual problems later:

And, seriously, the institution concerned is regarded as a highly-cited researcher. They're not crazy people.

So what *is* the correct response?

If necessary, restrain him. Then you have a range of options. Beating a disturbed teenager is not one of them.

The analysis of four studies by Murray Straus, co-director of the Family Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire-Durham, suggests that children whose parents spanked, slapped, hit or threw objects…

It's challenging, and sometimes amazing. But I do know that if an already disturbed 13 year-old loses the plot, the correct response is not to beat him with a riding crop.

So what *is* the correct response?

Whether or not someone becomes violent is a combination of genes and environment – like everything else.

Which doesn't change my point that this kid wasn't born destined to swing a baseball bat at his mother. He was taught it. Or more accurately, he was taught to deal with a…

I bet they're more likely to sound alike, than the possibility that they'll both end up axe murderers. Or attacking their foster parents with a baseball bat.

Kyle, the Dunedin longitudinal study found what's been a pretty-widely publicised (and sensationalised) link between different alleles in a gene involved in MAOA…

I can't believe identical twins brought up in Brixton and Beunos Aires would sound alike.

I bet they're more likely to sound alike, than the possibility that they'll both end up axe murderers. Or attacking their foster parents with a baseball bat.

being a tall skinny kid pretty soon resulted…

It's challenging, and sometimes amazing. But I do know that if an already disturbed 13 year-old loses the plot, the correct…

a lot more genetic influence over how you look and sound, than your choice to pick up a baseball bat

well, i'm inclined to agree. but genetics do have a lot of influence over the way that socialisation plays out.

being a tall skinny kid pretty soon resulted in my…

Perhaps they don't 'learn it in utero' but I query the assumption that if a kid wigs out and gets violent it is all down to the parenting.

No. But my point is, you also shouldn't hold the parenting (or lack of it) completely blameless.

Even in a situation, as…

Children don't learn that behaviour in utero after all.

now that's an interesting thing.

i apparently walk, talk, and act in a remarkably similar way to my father. but, he died when i was less than a year old.

i wasn't involved with his nuclear family until i was in…

Andrew this blog has quite a bit of discussion on that subject, just a diff view than yourself I suspect.…

Here's a cranky idea: You're the ostensibly rational adult in this scenario. Behave accordingly.

Anyway, a bit of Larkin to put things in perspective. :)

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they…

I'd start to think about where I'd gone wrong over the past 15 years of being a parent. Children don't learn that behaviour in utero after all.

Perhaps they don't 'learn it in utero' but I query the assumption that if a kid wigs out and gets violent it is…

After all , Russell exactly what would you have done if your own teenage son came swinging at you with a baseball bat?

I'd start to think about where I'd gone wrong over the past 15 years of being a parent. Children don't learn that behaviour in utero after all.

Russell Brown & others have probably never known what its like to be dealing with a child who has severe behavioural problems.

I'm normally civil to people like you, but you're testing my patience pretty sorely.

Yes, as it happens, I do know what it's like. Both my children are mildly…

I was 1 of 4 bouncers escourting a Uni Lecherer down some stairs who in one breathe said "I'm a pacifist, next time I…

I seem to recall there was some dispute as to whether he was just thrown, or if he was drunk, struggling with the bouncers, and then fell down the stairs (and quite possibly they made very little attempt to catch him).

That's a bit like splitting hairs over whether someone…

I'm yet to meet the guy who threw himself down a flight of stairs.

that only brings one of the two gentlemen above to mind.

but I seem to recall there was some dispute as to whether he was just thrown, or if he was drunk, struggling with the bouncers, and then fell down the stairs (and quite possibly they made very little attempt to catch him).

My goodness... is it only me? Or did…

The number of people I've seen getting hurt (receiving 'bodily harm') whilst being expelled from bars is quite a lot, but I've seldom heard of any prosecutions.

There was one a while ago – guy got thrown/dropped down stairs while being removed. I can't remember if it was a successful…

I'd rather say the law reflected a rather naive society.

Well that too. But I'm sure that we can come up with a list of things in our history that were both naive, and also as it turns out, sexist.

One reason might be that people don't often complain to the police :-)

I know a few who have, after receiving some grievous injuries, but the matter was not even investigated. It seems that if you punch someone out the back of the…

56 Defence of land or building

Every one in peaceable possession of any land or building, and every one lawfully assisting him or acting by his authority, is justified in using reasonable force to prevent any person from trespassing on the…

Personally, I remember being 15 and the laws 'protecting' me from the cute 16 year old girls in my class seemed all fucked up then, and the impression has lasted. I have a son, and I bet when he's 15 he'll feel just the same.

Steven has noted that until…

It's all enabling nonsense. But this part is just astonishing:

That is in vast contrast to…

to: Russell Brown >>Twisting the truth because you don't agree with something is the worst kind of journalism...Your attack on the good reputation of "Bob McCoskrie" is cowardly & without merit.

Andrew, did McCoskrie champion this woman via his radio show and elsewhere — and then run for cover and pretend…

I'm presuming people are not taking Chuck too seriously , but I'll keep an eye on it.

Looks like the commentators were already doing that for you. Chuck's made his point now, that he's against paedophilia. The extension that thinking of adjusting the law could only be conceived of by…

my main point is that the scenario is WAY more complex than you painted in your origional post. which was the basis of you somehow calling certain people proxy paedophiles.

The way it looks to me is that even if they do have an informal confession, the police don't have…

thanks Gareth and Andrew,

Chuck really hit me hard with that comment.

I'm presuming people are not taking Chuck too seriously , but I'll keep an eye on it.

If anyone is interested in more of this kind of discourse, there are a number of popular local blogs I can…

Chuck really hit me hard with that comment.

Also chuck, what bearing does any individuals parenthood status have on their outlook about such issues? you are aware that many perpertrators of such crimes are parents themselves, arent you?

did I state that I agree with the polices actions? nope, and I am not even going to be drawn into that. I DO know that even if the 'victim' is willing it can be heinously wrong.

my main point is that the scenario is WAY more complex than…

Does anyone else on this forum support Samuel? If so, please state if you are a parent.

I'll put my hand up (in the face of your aggressive demanding attitude) to support the comments made regarding complexity, particularly the complexity associated with exactly what good comes from charging these people.…

Does anyone else on this forum support Samuel?

I support him in that he's asking for more information to make a sound judgement. (you should totally try that).

If you think he's defending paedophiles, have another read.

As for Sue anti-bashing bill – it's simply modelling behaviour. We don't give corporal punishment to the worst of our prisoners (or not officially sanctioned anyway) & so too bashing kids for being kids is just wrong.

Having lived in afew…

The pregnancy was highlighted last week by Children’s Commissioner Cindy Kiro, who used the case to illustrate “the wall of silence” protecting people who committed child abuse.

The girl had started having sex from the age of 11 and Kiro claimed that no one in…

you do understand that you made some bizzare accusations based on incredible leaps of reason and then used these to justify name calling. and then you signed off with :

All they are capable…

She is making excuses for the police in not prosecuting. See link below.

Can you please quote the part of that article where Kiro makes excuses for the police's inaction?

do you not remember this government floating the idea of lowering the age of sexual consent to 12? After a public outcry they quickly dropped the idea. When you consider the increase in underage prostitutes I think the term paedophile friendly government is justified.

Chuck, I think it was Phil…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=146&objectid=10478186

There has been a…

It is a joke isnt it? its got to be.

What arrogance to even suggest this is a joke Samuel – don't you see that Chuck's demonstrating the intelligent debate that's so lacking in forums like this?

And the name calling? – who among us would be insulted to be…

Kyle, that arrogance of the left never ceases to amaze me. .... this paedophile friendly government ...... helps older males get away with having sex with much younger underage girls. .......
Cindy Kiro supports the police in their inaction and Russell Brown supports Cindy. In my books this makes them…

Kyle, that arrogance of the left never ceases to amaze me.

Well that wasn't the arrogance of the left, that was the arrogance of dictionary.com.

But good luck with whatever else you dribbled out there. I blacked out once you got to the government being paedophile-friendly bit.

...arrogance of the left never ceases to amaze me...

... paedophile friendly government...

... It appears a waste of time to trying to engage the left in intelligent debate. All they are capable of is name calling, distortion and out and out lies...

It's almost like Redbaiter has popped in…

Cindy Kiro supports the police in their inaction and Russell Brown supports Cindy. In my books this makes them little better than paedophiles themselves.

Chuck, we've discussed this. It was Kiro who actually brought that case to light in a speech condemning the conspiracies of silence that allow abuse to…

hey everyone,

finn higgins is a regular poster here on PA System, but this past…

Amend: To alter, modify, rephrase, or add to or subtract from (a motion, bill, constitution, etc.) by formal procedure.

I think what you're calling dishonesty, us lefties might call... correct. Because there's still a Section 59, it's just…

Thoughts are with Finn & his family
Kia kaha

I haven't followed the whole affair with detailed interest, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't S59 get ammended, not repealed? It still exists, doesn't it, just in a form that says that force for the purposes of correction is not allowed.

I keep hearing people (sometimes people…

(OK, here it is: "You might very well think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.")

This bugs me greatly, because it effectively protects Bob McCoskrie in particular from his own lack of honesty. If find his hypocrisy…

finn higgins is a regular poster here on PA System, but this past monday he disappeared around 7pm.

his partner is understandably worried about him, so i'm putting out word on her behalf.

it's thought that he might have disappeared to auckland. we're hoping that is the case.…

Russell, I didn't remove that post from my blog. I changed my blog due to a stuff up.http://big-newsdummy.blogspot.com/2006/07/son-breaks-riding-crop-mums-nose-post.html"> The post is here. Can you please edit your post...

Done.

I assume you had me in mind. No I`m not quiet, you know that. I just dont break court supression on…

I don't believe that the perceived infringement of the…

Because we all know the Lesbian Witches currently running this country hate Jesus.

More fun than a Plunket coffee morning...

Families can face enormous, complex stresses that are not about children…

Would International Observer have sent this drivel if his/her real name was printed?

Hi Judy. IO is a PA System regular, even while he doesn't post under his own name, he does post enough that other regulars have got to know him, if you know what I mean.

His post…

I thought we had to use our real names to post on your blog. Would International Observer have sent this drivel if his/her real name was printed?

My thinking Christian friends are embarrassed by the 'International Obervers' of this world and I'd sooner stay with this Government than be…

I keep hearing people (sometimes people…

On the other hand, I still do not think the 'anti-smacking' legislation was the method to stop this sort of vilolence. I mean we are still seeing horrific violence towards kids from people who care little about such laws.

The law change won't halt violence against children in itself: Sue…