Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Not doing justice

Ian Dalziel

Thu, 14 Aug 2014 09:49:01 +1200

A singular and a plural don’t go together.
Phew!
Sun still rose this morning….
;- )

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Thu, 14 Aug 2014 07:05:43 +1200

Of course, that's the other way of looking at it – it's not that it's happening more because of social media; it's just that social media means we're aware of more instances of it than just the ones we pass.

Ben Austin

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:23:25 +1200

Isn't sabotage / taking of electoral signs a regular occurrence? I certainly recall people at high school taking great delight in such and sharing their exploits. This was before cell phone cameras, luckily for them I guess.

All I can remember from this was that Winston Peters used wooden signs…

"chris"

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 19:24:19 +1200

Your premise (that they is inevitably plural) is false: “singular they ” has long been a part of normal English speech

My reading was that Pete’s focus was rather on the plurality of the reflexive pronoun in Ian’s:

a rogue member took it upon themselves

Obviously I could be mistaken,…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 18:16:43 +1200

Does it matter any more?

Nope. Soundbites will beat you everytime.Anyone can be everyone.Perception beats all.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 18:06:30 +1200

Possibly. Although if this guy's typical of local rightwingers, it might be a more general political opposition.

Tinakori

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:35:30 +1200

The few shots relate, I understand, to the Harawiras' admirable campaign against P in the region.

andin

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:48:47 +1200

Kim Dotcom promotes himself as founder and visionary of the Internet Party and holds a special position of ‘Visionary’ in their party organisation as per their published party rules.

Been at work, I have a job. But man oh man! you must have scoured their literature to find that, '…

Joe Wylie

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:38:11 +1200

You’re paranoid, delusional and I’m more than a little embarrassed for Peter Dunne that his party’s biggest supporter is such a weird crackpot.

Is Pete George UF now? I thought he was ACT. Huh #needscorecard

Does it matter any more? Is there a name for the cognitive impairment that prevents…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:07:04 +1200

National doesn't have Billboards ...
it has 'Key Boards'
hence all the digital enhancements....

nzlemming

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:51:15 +1200

You’re paranoid, delusional and I’m more than a little embarrassed for Peter Dunne that his party’s biggest supporter is such a weird crackpot.

Is Pete George UF now? I thought he was ACT. Huh #needscorecard

HORansome

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:44:13 +1200

November. After the election, more's the pity.

Paul Campbell

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:39:58 +1200

Alan: for me it's much more of a meh, I don't personally see being silly and burning a public figure in effigy, using your own wood, on your own land, as a big deal. How is it different than a political caricature done in fire? it's not like we have…

izogi

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:18:24 +1200

I was also severely underwhelmed by Gibson on Morning Report doing the usual “I’m sorry people were offended” passive-aggressive voice b.s. rather than just saying “I’m sorry I was offensive. Full stop.

Is that what he said? I'd thought I heard a more direct and responsible apology somewhere along the…

Sacha

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:59:59 +1200

Judging from my limited knowledge of classical Roman graffiti, this secret society of dick and tit favouring vandals is older than the Catholic Church.

roflnui

Alan Perrott

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:43:31 +1200

actually I was rather aggrieved by the suggestion that a burner may have been associated with that effigy video – kiwiburn et al are about radical inclusion, if Key turned up at the gate with a ticket he should be welcomed on and invited to play his part in the…

linger

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:33:50 +1200

a dick on a John Key billboard is just a tautology, surely?

linger

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:18:55 +1200

A singular and a plural don’t go together. Your premise (that they is inevitably plural) is false: “singular they ” has long been a part of normal English speech, and is more commonly used today – even in edited writing – than any alternative way of referring to an individual…

william blake

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 12:06:51 +1200

my electorate vote is going to Mike Pero.

Steve Barnes

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 11:51:26 +1200

Not to mention the middle finger salute, which in Roman times was known as ‘digitus impudicus’.Ah, the simple beauty of digital communication.
I did notice, in the background of Debora's billboard picture, a plain plywood hoarding. Forget all the dick and tit graffiti, that one said "I have Wood" subtle.…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 11:34:27 +1200

So I'm off to Burning Man next week, will all this go postal and I'll be arrested for a hate crime at the border when I return for burning "The Man"? Will DoC go after the Kiwiburn folks for burning kiwis?

Done carefully setting fire to (your own) stuff is…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 11:02:52 +1200

Idiots and wind, every time. No need to read anything significant into it, other than hoons will be hoons

.Ah!!!! Finally!!!The voice of reason.Vote Deborah.

Absolutely. Plus probably a bit to do with the big loudest fight in town being about Dotcom wanting to bring down Key and graffiti (possibly…

giovanni tiso

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:59:15 +1200

Honestly Pete could you just get out your own head for half a minute and think about what you're saying?

You're talking to the guy who claimed that my urging Radio Live sponsors to donate to Rape Prevention Education was a form of sexual assault.

Keir Leslie

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:56:55 +1200

Yeah we need to clamp down on billboard vandalism, it's Just Like Domestic Violence. Honestly Pete could you just get out your own head for half a minute and think about what you're saying?

Pete George

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:54:30 +1200

At least in my book, that’s beyond “hoons being hoons”.
There's another problem with just accepting “hoons being hoons”. And accepting "Winston will be Winston" and "it's just how Question Time is".

In an age where we seem to be making progress in promoting non-acceptance of violence and rape -…

Mikaere Curtis

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:48:06 +1200

Green suporters tarred themselves, posting proof of vandalism on Facebook, as reported by ODT and seemingly as accepted by Metiria.

Pete, what do you mean by "seemingly as accepted" ?

This is what she actually said:

"We don't want people defacing ours, and we don't approve others defacing other parties, they…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:47:24 +1200

the rise of the Labour vs. National/tit vs. dick thing might just be fallout from Labour's attempt to have a balanced slate paying off in the hoon mind-space

Kumara Republic

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:42:42 +1200

Think you’re onto something really big here, Pete. Judging from my limited knowledge of classical Roman graffiti, this secret society of dick and tit favouring vandals is older than the Catholic Church.

Not to mention the middle finger salute, which in Roman times was known as 'digitus impudicus'.

Pete George

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:36:17 +1200

I thought Laila Harre said on Breakfast that Dotcom was doing a good job promoting youth getting out to vote,
Maybe it's working in some parts of the country but notable at the Internet-Mana meeting in Dunedin last night was the lack of youth – on stage and in the…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:33:35 +1200

Idiots and wind, every time. No need to read anything significant into it, other than hoons will be hoons.

That's a fair point, Deborah, but one reasons I'm not quite so relaxed was a remarkably unpleasant experience when I was in Wellington Central. We had a really nice elderly couple…

Tim Hannah

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:26:14 +1200

That's interesting Deborah. In Palmerston North a dick on a John Key billboard and boobs on a Labour billboard. That's the same themes on the National and Labour billboards in Dunedin.

Maybe it's just a coincidence of hoons.

Think you're onto something really big here, Pete. Judging from my limited…

Sofie Bribiesca

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:25:23 +1200

However JK chose not to, allowing more breathing space for a damaging inflammatory meme that amounted to a convenient untruth.

Par for the course since about, coming on 6 years ago now. Had IMP not existed today, I suspect it would have been "the nasty greens" or "the __ looney…

Rosemary McDonald

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:17:42 +1200

Idiots and wind, every time. No need to read anything significant into it, other than hoons will be hoons.

Ah!!!! Finally!!!

The voice of reason.

Vote Deborah.

Paul Campbell

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:15:25 +1200

oh you're right, my apologies – edited – I guess what we have at the moment is TheirNZ

giovanni tiso

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:12:39 +1200

Of course his party was not exactly a bastion against anti-semitism

That's OurNZ, not YourNZ, though.

giovanni tiso

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:10:32 +1200

remember when he started his own party and was searching for candidates on TradeMe

Love the comments:

"I think this will be a one election wonder."
"You underestimate my plans and determination"

Turns out that no, he wasn't.

Paul Campbell

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:07:03 +1200

Pete's something of a perennial candidate here in Dunedin, seems to run for just about anything and with anyone who will have him, but never gets elected – remember when started his own party and was searching for candidates on TradeMe?

81stcolumn

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:06:17 +1200

Also, as I went to bed, I remember thinking “Ah, crap. I have to like something about Gaza,” as I hit the Like button on a post with a pro-Israel message.

By the next morning, the items in my News Feed had moved very, very far to the right. I’m…

Stephen Judd

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:05:17 +1200

many, if not most, delusional paranoiacs manage not to post boring and offensive nonsense on the internet.

I wish PAS had favourite buttons because if it did I would mash it hard on that one.

Sacha

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:02:41 +1200

those who are conspiracy theorists and scholars

Matthew's book must be coming out soon :)

Sacha

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:56 +1200

I think the reason there’s more billboard defacement this election is that there’s now a broader and permanent audience for it (the tumblr feed(s?) showing defaced billboards) than just the people who happened to pass by before it’s replaced.

So true – witness the prevalence and increasing sophistication of image…

giovanni tiso

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:30 +1200

Honestly, if we're discussing why National is getting hit more (and in Wellington, it most certainly is), it doesn't stretch credulity for me at all that it would be a mix of healthy hatred for the bastards and frustration for the lack of alternatives as we march towards Key's third…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 10:00:25 +1200

And those who are conspiracy theorists and scholars?….perhaps no hope.

The likes of Robert Spencer, Pam Geller and Brigitte Gabriel have somehow managed to inflate their credentials, or lack of them. What they do have at their disposal are the ability to pull off Big Lies – not unlike the…

Pete George

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:56:30 +1200

That's interesting Deborah. In Palmerston North a dick on a John Key billboard and boobs on a Labour billboard. That's the same themes on the National and Labour billboards in Dunedin.

Maybe it's just a coincidence of hoons.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:54:56 +1200

DeepRed’s question remains unaddressed while diversions abound.

It's not just happening in NZ, which is why the social media-isation of Gaza might just be a big factor.

Rich of Observationz

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:53:17 +1200

I'm not a supporter at all of Dunne or his party

Rather than boring us all with your increasingly pathetic attempts to smear IMP, why not regale us with the story of your split from Disunited Past?

Pete George

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:51:53 +1200

It’s honestly one of the funniest things I’ve read all year. A billboard was defaced, it must have been the people who put up the next billboard along!
Context matters – at the same time some Greens were bragging via Facebok at similar billboard vandalism in the same electorate.

At…

81stcolumn

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:50:25 +1200

anywhere on the globe wherever you find conspiracy theorists who repackage themselves as scholars.

And those who are conspiracy theorists and scholars?....perhaps no hope.

81stcolumn

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:49:01 +1200

Anyone remember these while we are off topic?

Keir Leslie

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:48:41 +1200

Eh can we not be insulting to the mentally ill right now? Apart from anything else, many, if not most, delusional paranoiacs manage not to post boring and offensive nonsense on the internet.

Pete George

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:46:22 +1200

I think this guilt by association you are trying to tar the Greens with says more about your personal politics than any reality
Green suporters tarred themselves, posting proof of vandalism on Facebook, as reported by ODT and seemingly as accepted by Metiria.

Deborah

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:46:07 +1200

It has been pretty much equal opportunity vandalism in my part of the country. My party has lost heaps of its signs, and so have the other parties. It's very, very frustrating. I've had a few signs damaged on country sites, but that has turned out to be wind damage.…

Russell Brown

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:45:20 +1200

This was odd – she supports at least some of the content type of the video, strongly defended promotion of a similar video but took strong offense at being linked to distribution of the other. Seems like some opportunistic attention seeking faux outrage.

Let me get this straight: Key baselessly…

Kumara Republic

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:45:15 +1200

Are you talking about the Middle East?

Not just the Middle East, but anywhere on the globe wherever you find conspiracy theorists who repackage themselves as scholars.

giovanni tiso

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:44:07 +1200

I think it says more about Pete's personal reality than any politics.

It's honestly one of the funniest things I've read all year. A billboard was defaced, it must have been the people who put up the next billboard along! For the same reason, whenever there's a burglary I immediately…

81stcolumn

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:41:25 +1200

No, they don’t need to. It’s their choice

Which is also a choice to be extended to our prime minister; who when presented with effigy burning could have pointed out that such things are unlikely to be at the behest of any of those seeking election. It would have been…

Pete George

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:41:16 +1200

You’re paranoid, delusional and I’m more than a little embarrassed for Peter Dunne that his party’s biggest supporter is such a weird crackpot.
You're the one who's delusional. I'm not a supporter at all of Dunne or his party.

Russell Brown

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:40:39 +1200

I think this guilt by association you are trying to tar the Greens with says more about your personal politics than any reality

I think it says more about Pete's personal reality than any politics.

Pete George

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:39:03 +1200

Much as Laila Harre was eventually given an opportunity to respond to John Key’s baseless allegation that her party was behind the burning-in-effigy video.
I think more likely she demanded an opportunity. And so she should have.

She disassociated her party from taking or distributing the video (and Key accepted…

Craig Ranapia

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:37:08 +1200

What you said was that they needed “dissociate” themselves from it, which implies that there might be a shred of evidence that they are associated with it. Which there isn’t.

And to be perfectly fair, I suspect every party leader who’s been around for more than five minutes could write…

Paul Campbell

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:28:45 +1200

Pete – your link points to a Greens sign placed near a defaced National sign – many communities, like Dunedin, limit billboards to certain spots, having a Greens billboard near a National one is probably not uncommon all around. I think the Greens I know are probably too intelligent to…

Matt Crawford

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:27:22 +1200

Pete, You've managed to piece together quite a conspiracy there.

Seriously, please talk this over with your whanau support and health professional.

You're paranoid, delusional and I'm more than a little embarrassed for Peter Dunne that his party's biggest supporter is such a weird crackpot.

Russell Brown

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:25:25 +1200

Internet-Mana don’t need to front up and decry this antisemitic graffiti.

No, they don’t need to. It’s their choice.

What you said was that they needed "dissociate" themselves from it, which implies that there might be a shred of evidence that they are associated with it. Which there isn't.

David…

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:21:39 +1200

I think the reason there's more billboard defacement this election is that there's now a broader and permanent audience for it (the tumblr feed(s?) showing defaced billboards) than just the people who happened to pass by before it's replaced.

Sacha

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:17:58 +1200

they may reap what revolutionary behaviour and discontent they sow

Wrong 'they'. I think you need to look at who first raised Dotcom being German and all that – clue: it wasn't the left. You must enjoy being used by Ede, Farrar, Slater et al as much as some of…

Pete George

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:05:57 +1200

Internet-Mana don’t need to front up and decry this antisemitic graffiti.
No, they don’t need to. It’s their choice.

David Cunliffe has chosen to condemn it.

Labour leader David Cunliffe says he has no time for dirty campaign tactics and billboard vandals.

“I don’t know who’s doing it,” he said.…

Pete George

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 08:53:30 +1200

a rogue member took it upon themselves
A singular and a plural don't go together. A don't think one member managed to do the country on their own. And you missed quoting this bit:
"I have been advised this morning that a Green Party member Jolyon White, who is also…

Ian Dalziel

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 08:24:43 +1200

Greens were embarrassed last campaign when caught doing a nationwide hit job on National billboards
"Greens were embarrassed last campaign when a rogue member took it upon themselves to deface National billboards"

Fixed that for you
"The Green Party does not support their activities and I was not aware of…

Russell Brown

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 08:20:50 +1200

Have the visionary or the leader of the new party made any statements disassociating themselves from any of this?

And when exactly did you stop beating your wife, Pete?

Matt Crawford

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 08:04:56 +1200

Pete,

Internet-Mana don't need to front up and decry this antisemitic graffiti. Unless you know something we don't?

Otherwise it seems you're just awfully keen to start implying patently stupid and and offensive shit about a political party you oppose.

I mean, if we're talking conspiratorial theories about motives and…

Pete George

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:49:28 +1200

? who’s that.

Kim Dotcom promotes himself as founder and visionary of the Internet Party and holds a special position of 'Visionary' in their party organisation as per their published party rules.

andin

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:33:50 +1200

Have the visionary
? who's that.
They have a potential problem in that having promoted and owned anti-Key rhetoric and actions they may now be perceived as associated with the actions of people who are independent of the party organisation.

Perceptions are a funny things, never to be relied on.…

Pete George

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:15:40 +1200

So why has overt anti-Semitism only surfaced in the 2014 election, and not the 2011 one?

Good question. I don't see it as related to what's happening in Gaza much if at all. One significant difference in this election is a new party combination that is campaigning on being disruptive…

81stcolumn

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 07:11:44 +1200

I unfriended someone recently after years of anti-Israeli FB posts culminated in a wave of nonsense during the height of the fighting in Gaza. The pattern of selective emphasis ultimately implied something really unpleasant.

I don't think this is uncommon. On the one hand it isn't unreasonable to be upset…

WH

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 05:41:45 +1200

I remember when a university acquaintance started trying out anti-Jewish references ('don't be such a Jew',…

Ben Austin

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 02:13:29 +1200

So what other incidents have been encountered, on the public stage, this election campaign? I'm not in country at present so perhaps have missed finer detail. I haven't noticed at least any reports of cemetery desecration like which has happened in years passed, which is a small mercy.

Kumara Republic

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 02:09:31 +1200

That point about the current I/P conflict Rob is bang on – none on the antisemitic stuff I've seen featured so prominently on the National-run blog sites so much as touches on the conflict. Meanwhile there is a ton of reporting of international anti-Israel protests turning antisemitic.

So why has…

81stcolumn

Wed, 13 Aug 2014 00:41:15 +1200

I'm trying hard not to say this is wrong but...

As younger chap I often struggled to articulate my frustrations with what I saw in the middle east and specifically Israel-Palestine. This was not helped by the wilful conflation of antisemitism with criticism of Israel as a way to excuse…

Matt Crawford

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 23:21:31 +1200

The billboard defacement…

Ben Austin

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:15:04 +1200

This is rather interesting, about Rangitata at least. Growing up as I did a little to the south of this electorate, in a National household, Timaru certainly and to a lesser extent, Oamaru, were always in the Labour Party camp. Not necessarily by electorate, although Labour did win Waitaki/Oamaru and…

Ross Mason

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:05:00 +1200

Terms like slacktivism are bandied about mostly by people who are lazier than the supposedly lazy.

What does David Slack say to that buggering of his name? He has done most of his work at the keyboard too!

Oh shit. I shouldn't have used the word bugger. (see…

Sacha

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 21:41:21 +1200

Except television

He was great recently – on this particular topic which he is an expert in. Candidates for broad leadership roles must have the time to develop solid knowledge – or really good advisors.

Sacha

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 21:39:07 +1200

People desperately want to find reasons someone they're meant to like is not simply an arsehole – cos he's one of [insert group here] is easy.

Rob Stowell

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 21:25:48 +1200

Is comfortable in all environments and with people from all backgrounds.
Except television, leading a left-ish political party. Had to be said: watching him was bloody uncomfortable for the viewer. Can’t have been comfortable for DS.
Creeping anti-semitism: oddly, I don’t think it’s a response to the attack on Gaza.…

Stephen Judd

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 21:18:17 +1200

Shearer is so much better now he's off the leash. Also, he's speaking in the area where he is strongest — of course he's great, he knows that shit inside out.

When he was on the leash, he had the ability to select his advisers, and the ability to refuse…

Hilary Stace

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:53:26 +1200

David Shearer also said he thought there was a lot more anti-Semiticism around this election and how sad and inaccurate that was.

He would be a great foreign minister. Is comfortable in all environments and with people from all backgrounds. Mentioned that part of his job was showing people around…

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:39:50 +1200

Is it me, or does there seem to be much more noticeable anti-semiticism this election? I remarked on the radio an election ago how pleasing it was that we didn’t make much (or anything at all) about John Key’s mother being Jewish and his banking background. Was I just being…

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:32:52 +1200

David Shearer was a great raconteur speaking on this topic he know a great deal about and without notes.

This is doing my head in. I lost faith in Shearer's ability to lead his party when I went to a local meeting and ended up feeling that if he apparently…

Sacha

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:21:53 +1200

it is not about anti-Semitism but about the abuse of state power

this. I detest warmongers who do not learn from their own history.

Sacha

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:19:31 +1200

the Jewish thing not so much

Should be completely irrelevant in NZ by now. I resent locals deliberately conniving on that angle. We're not Europe or the US.

Hilary Stace

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:11:27 +1200

I went to a packed public meeting in Khandallah this afternoon to hear David Shearer speak about Gaza (organised by Virginia Andersen the Labour candidate). I couldn't believe the numbers there – across the age range – at a meeting in the wealthy heart of the Ohariu electorate on a…

william blake

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:10:52 +1200

Racism is just stupid. The Labour candidate deserves to lose and if he does not I would be concerned about that electorate.

There are so many legitimate societal errors perpetrated by this government it really shows a lack of imagination and intelligence to make this statement about the National Party…

Paul Campbell

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 20:08:34 +1200

I think his banking background is fair game, so is his working in the US in the Wall Street world and that whole mindset – the Jewish thing not so much, but it shouldn't be a secret, we should celebrate that we don't care that he's Jewish and that anyone…

giovanni tiso

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:44:47 +1200

Show-off.

Boom! Seriously though, a lot of actual political campaigners don't leave their homes much these days, and that's okay. Terms like slacktivism are bandied about mostly by people who are lazier than the supposedly lazy.

HORansome

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:30:31 +1200

Is it me, or does there seem to be much more noticeable anti-semiticism this election? I remarked on the radio an election ago how pleasing it was that we didn't make much (or anything at all) about John Key's mother being Jewish and his banking background. Was I just being…

Joe Wylie

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 19:14:42 +1200

The Key’s a Jew schtick seems to attract some very confused people. At the time of Lou Reed’s death there was post on a deservedly obscure blog damning “Jewkey” and Jews in general, after which the author waxed maudlin about what a great loss to the world Lou Reed was.

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:57:57 +1200

David Shearer's Facebook post:

I've been shocked and disappointed at the anti-Semitic comment and defacing of billboards over the past few days, including in my electorate of Mt Albert. I don't want John Key to win the election because I believe NZ can do much better with a different, fairer…

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:55:07 +1200

Sitting at one’s keyboard can also be quite useful in and of itself. Activism can be carried out effectively from one’s chair, in the right circumstances.

Show-off.

giovanni tiso

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:53:05 +1200

Yes. As I indicated in the post, quite a few valued commenters here are actively and usefully involved in the political process.

Sitting at one's keyboard can also be quite useful in and of itself. Activism can be carried out effectively from one's chair, in the right circumstances.

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:39:46 +1200

Projection much? Many people here contribute to political processes other than by sitting at their keyboards.

Yes. As I indicated in the post, quite a few valued commenters here are actively and usefully involved in the political process.

Sacha

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:29:46 +1200

The guy is at least having a go, which is more than anyone here has achieved

Projection much? Many people here contribute to political processes other than by sitting at their keyboards.

Kumara Republic

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 18:09:58 +1200

Neither is the inability of our major parties (remember Aaron Gilmore, etc) to recruit enough half-decent candidates to cover 71 electorates.

Which is part of a trend towards slumping political party memberships, not just in NZ, but also in Britain, America, the EU...

Rosemary McDonald

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:39:26 +1200

One day we will be allowed to vote on a list of people we DON’T want in parliament, no matter how many other people like them, once enough people say “sod off”, they are gone*.

Now THIS gets my vote!

Bodmin

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:24:34 +1200

Merchant of Venice in the 7th Form. Standards must be slipping,
At Timaru Boys High School in the mid 1940's we did it in the 3rd form and loved very page of it.

Bart Janssen

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:14:20 +1200

Accidental bigots are so much easier to tolerate than the deliberate kind.

One day we will be allowed to vote on a list of people we DON'T want in parliament, no matter how many other people like them, once enough people say "sod off", they are gone*.

I'm personally starting…

giovanni tiso

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:10:57 +1200

Linwood College here in Chch staged The Merchant of Venice back before the earthquakes, with a multi-ethnic cast and a female Shylock.

To say nothing of the Maori Merchant of Venice.

Joe Wylie

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:09:56 +1200

I would say that the name Shylock is more or less unknown to the majority of Pakeha New Zealanders, let alone the PI and Asian ones, and expecting everyone to understand his character in the context of 16th century anti-semitism or else suffer the scorn of the chattering classes smacks…

Gregor Ronald

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 17:02:42 +1200

I agree, he used the "Sorry people were offended" line several times. I kept waiting for him to apologise for the statement itself, but I honestly think he didn't understand the difference.

Gregor Ronald

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:57:41 +1200

Well pointed out B Jones: Shakespeare's Shylock is unlikable, but that trait is then used to make a serious point about how we all share a common humanity regardless of race and religion. Even in a lightweight play it's complicated.

I do believe it's possible for someone to know the…

HORansome

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:56:33 +1200

Jesus, what world do you live in? Reality check time: not everyone is a high falutin’ dinner party intellectual like the PA crew. I would say that the name Shylock is more or less unknown to the majority of Pakeha New Zealanders, let alone the PI and Asian ones, and…

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:46:25 +1200

The guy is at least having a go, which is more than anyone here has achieved so give him a break.

Oh, please. The "Vote Positive" message had long since gone out and the guy was still spewing stupid stuff all over Facebook(I gather he's quite prolific). At the very,…

Emma Hart

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:28:49 +1200

Did it ever occur to you that not everyone needs to rabbit on about their salt-of-the-earth working-class bona fides all the fucking time?

Can I, just for a minute? My mum worked part-time in a laundry of an old-folks home, and she was in every Shakespeare performed in Timaru for…

Danielle

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:23:52 +1200

a high falutin’ dinner party intellectual

Did it ever occur to you that not everyone needs to rabbit on about their salt-of-the-earth working-class bona fides all the fucking time?

Tom Semmens

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:22:32 +1200

It doesn't surprise me you would think that, you tend to be a melancholy pessimist on the sunniest of days.

If someone gives his word he didn't mean something to be interpreted in a particular way, that is good enough for me until he proves otherwise.

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:18:08 +1200

Jesus, what world do you live in? Reality check time: not everyone is a high falutin’ dinner party intellectual like the PA crew.

Double down reality check, Tommo – there’s nothing hoity-toity about at least knowing what the insults you pick up on Facebook actually mean. But hey, good to…

Keir Leslie

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:17:07 +1200

You are assuming he was knowingly anti-semitic, which he says he is not. On what grounds do you challenge his word?

Yeah look the guy used a racial slur. Sure maybe he was just a complete idiot who had no clue that racial slurs are offensive, or maybe not! I…

giovanni tiso

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:15:36 +1200

You are assuming he was knowingly anti-semitic, which he says he is not. On what grounds do you challenge his word?

Because I read his comment. Because it had all the hallmarks of the classic antisemitic rant – the shadowy financial world conspiracy, Key's sinister "sneer". It was phrased in…

Tom Semmens

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:12:11 +1200

Anti-semitism isn’t a trivial issue.

You are assuming he was knowingly anti-semitic, which he says he is not. On what grounds do you challenge his word?

Neither is the inability of our major parties (remember Aaron Gilmore, etc) to recruit enough half-decent candidates to cover 71 electorates.

I agree, but…

Bart Janssen

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:04:05 +1200

they can’t answer on their own

There do appear to be some who can, when asked a question, deliver their own personal opinion AND the party policy all while remaining consistent with the party to which they belong.

BUT there are rather a large number of candidates who appear to…

giovanni tiso

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:03:16 +1200

Everyone sits around wringing their hands at the trivialisation of politics, when the trivial issues are all they seem to want to can talk about

Anti-semitism isn't a trivial issue. Neither is the inability of our major parties (remember Aaron Gilmore, etc) to recruit enough half-decent candidates to cover 71…

Chris Waugh

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:02:54 +1200

Racism is not trivial.

B Jones

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:00:38 +1200

I would say that the name Shylock is more or less unknown to the majority of Pakeha New Zealanders, let alone the PI and Asian ones

A lot of us came across it in 7th form English, which not everyone takes, but it's not one of the more obscure plays.…

ChrisW

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 16:00:11 +1200

I have no doubts that Steven Gibson was genuine in his ignorance that that Shylock shyster was a Jew. As he said, he's a rookie at this stuff, and hasn't learnt to fake sincerity.
Morning Report 7.10am – re-listened and still found it compelling.

Tom Semmens

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:44:51 +1200

Difference doesn’t mean division

It does to Paddy Gower. The mainstream media assiduously cultivates only one legitimate truth and interprets anything else as dissent.

I disagree with the commentators here asking to that criticism of Labour or the campaign be silenced.

And lo, at the first suggestion of a bit…

Ianmac

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:44:50 +1200

and him and many of his colleagues have refused to even stand on the Party list.
Shock horror. Terrible. But wait. On the other hand, Bill English is a List Only man? Hell clearly this must mean he is not brave enough to face his electorate. Or something weird. Conclusions…

Chris Waugh

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:36:41 +1200

I'm sure somebody already mentioned this on one of these threads, but never mind.... This is disturbing:

But Mr Watson posted on Facebook this afternoon that he had just had a "super interesting chat with The Electoral Commission just now".

"It appears we may be gagged."

He later posted that "the…

Joe Wylie

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:35:45 +1200

It’s also not as if it is an everyday word used in a loosely pejorative way in the avenues and alleyways of Aotearoa.

For whatever it's worth, there's a Shylocks hairdressers in Upper Riccarton.

Sacha

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:31:44 +1200

It has been rasied in multiple areas so it seems a lot more obvious

Exactly as intended by those who laid the foundations of the meme some months back.

Tim Darlington

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:27:06 +1200

Anti-Semitism, the racist fantasy that capitalism, inequality and exploitation can be blamed on Jews is one of the oldest and most destructive of the myths of race hatred that are pushed to divide the working class.

A myth that reaches brain-hurtingly toxic levels of ironic stupidity when you take into…

HORansome

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:16:04 +1200

I have to agree that it seems somewhat odd to say "I can use Shylock in a sentence" without it entailing that "I know what 'Shylock' refers to." It is, after all, a quintessential anti-semetic stereotype. It's also not as if it is an everyday word used in a loosely…

Keir Leslie

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:14:09 +1200

That interview was atrocious. Gibson’s clearly been given a bollocking, but he just came across as absolutely clueless in a “I’ve never had to think about why being a dickhead’s a bad thing” way. Just a train wreck. Should never have been selected in the first place.

[Edited to add:…

Brodie Davis

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:07:32 +1200

But something is definitely weird when looking at the amount of antisemitism being daubed across National billboards. It wasn’t like this last time.

Seems like Confirmation Bias to me. It has been rasied in multiple areas so it seems a lot more obvious.

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 15:06:52 +1200

Also, if Labour candidates could stop blaming their constituents for putting bad thoughts in their ears – see Shearer after the “man on the roof” debacle – it would be dandy. What are they, children?

That was exactly my thought when I heard it. It was kind of pathetic.

Lucy Telfar Barnard

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 14:45:28 +1200

I did find it hard to believe anyone could have a sense of what “Shylock” means, but not know Shylock was Jewish, so thanks John Morrison for volunteering it to be possible.

As far as “[doing Labour] a favour then and [trying] to be a bit more on message during…

Grant McDougall

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 14:40:51 +1200

When the former candidate, Julian Blanchard, tired of competing in an unwinable seat (which has become even less winnable with recent boundary changes), the Rangitata LEC seems to have collapsed and Gibson, who had only recently even joined the party, became the new candidate.

I’m reliably informed that much the…

Matt Crawford

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 14:21:08 +1200

It's a pickle alright Gio.

I don't imagine any LEC that has loyally supported a successful local candidate will take kindly to being asked to please go back and produce someone better. Or quite what the best course for Labour to take when an LEC in a deep blue seat…

Tim Michie

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 14:13:11 +1200

With Gibson's repeat offensiveness Cunliffe may be called on to act on the 'last warning' given. If so, I don't think Labour would shed too many tears at that point.

Craig Ranapia

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 14:03:02 +1200

I was also severely underwhelmed by Gibson on Morning Report doing the usual "I'm sorry people were offended" passive-aggressive voice b.s. rather than just saying "I'm sorry I was offensive. Full stop. Period. Will stop talking now."

When are political types going to understand that using your weasel words is…

giovanni tiso

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 13:53:50 +1200

I think refusing to stand on the list indicates that that these candidates are not genuinely campaigning for the party, rather acting more selfishly. The electorate are being fed the coded message loud and clear: "this candidate does not necessarily endorse head office".

Where would you place Mallard, then? At…

Tim Michie

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 13:53:22 +1200

I think refusing to stand on the list indicates that that these candidates are not genuinely campaigning for the party, rather acting more selfishly. I think it can also be seen as the opposite: A party in need of rejuvenation getting younger candidates move up the list and electorate candidates…

Matt Crawford

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 13:49:35 +1200

The template has been set by Harry…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 13:48:14 +1200

It's not possible for Labour to not stand someone in any electorate

I'm kinda hoping the Labour (and Green) candidates in Epsom will have their nominations withdrawn at the last minute. Or change their names by deed poll to: Party Vote Labour But Vote For Paul Goldsmith

Overseas,…

giovanni tiso

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 13:30:03 +1200

Gibson said in this morning's radio i/v he repeated what a constituted said to him, not understanding the full background of the term.
BTW I know the word but I didn't realise the sensitive meaning of it either.

I may be being sensitive here, but if you read Gibson's whole…

giovanni tiso

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 13:26:57 +1200

[Mallard] and many of his colleagues have refused to even stand on the Party list

That is surely a good thing?

Matt Crawford

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 13:23:14 +1200

I disagree with the commentators here asking to that criticism of Labour or the campaign be silenced.

Despite a powerful mandate from the membership to make significant policy change and urgently needed renewel the party has instead chosen to prioritise the protection of poorly performing incumbents.

The key policy plank…

Keir Leslie

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:56:20 +1200

Also! I don't care if calling out anti-semitism is on message or not, it's the right thing to do . Racism is absolutely unacceptable in the Labour Party and if holding that line means a few bad headlines I'm OK with that.

Cunliffe left a massive hostage to fortune when…

Keir Leslie

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:49:33 +1200

It's not possible for Labour to not stand someone in any electorate. But there's no reason you can't stand, a Christchurch based activist who travels down at the weekends and for the month before polling day, say. Which is what we have done in the past, when Tony Milne stood…

John Morrison

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:48:30 +1200

Kumara Republic

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:48:29 +1200

Meanwhile, the International Socialists of NZ have called for sanity over the whole anti-Semitism issue.

__Anti-Semitism, the racist fantasy that capitalism, inequality and exploitation can be blamed on Jews is one of the oldest and most destructive of the myths of race hatred that are pushed to divide the working…

Emma Hart

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:32:12 +1200

Seems to be a difficult area, the Greens aren’t running a candidate there.

It's the electorate where I grew up, though it was Aorangi then and less rural than it is now, and it's really depressing. It used to have strong branches of both Labour and Values. Now it's unloseably…

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:31:32 +1200

What the fuck are you on Russell? I posted a video about the Federal Reserve Bank not anything like the crap you linked to.

It’s the standard Ron-Paul-John-Birch-banking-conspiracy tosh, although it does somewhat inevitably invoke the Rothschilds. I’d not be wild at the best of times about PAS being a…

Raymond A Francis

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:20:08 +1200

It must be depressing for those who graft away because they believe in the cause , especially as Labour was having a good week
I note Greg Presland was in a position to know what was written, pity he didn't take down the comments
On the other hand David Cuncliffe's…

Steve Barnes

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:05:48 +1200

Fuck off, Steve. You’ve just posted a video by the author of.... something unrelated that some might find offensive if they do enough research...

What the fuck are you on Russell? I posted a video about the Federal Reserve Bank not anything like the crap you linked to.
I am…

izogi

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 12:02:15 +1200

"The comment, which also declared that “many here have no idea what [Key’s] connection to the GFC is”, was the kind of thing you’d expect from some nameless idiot on the internet, not a major party candidate."

I’d never heard of Steve Gibson until now. I won’t expect most people…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:55:57 +1200

Agreed. The last thing the Left needs are ZOG conspiracy theorists in its ranks, or the perception of it. The link to Fran O's article is legit though.

Fran O'Sullivan: Key chases luck o' the Irish

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:53:16 +1200

Oh. I see Cunliffe was bullish last December about Labour winning Rangitata.

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:35:38 +1200

As to what Key’s connection to the GFC was, many don’t, it appears.
To downplay this connection is to deny the people of this country the perspective needed to make an informed choice.

Steve. You’ve just posted a video by the author of a tract called [[http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=protocols|Are Jews and masons…

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:35:25 +1200

Seems to be a difficult area, the Greens aren't running a candidate there.

If I was organising a political party, I'd obtain an app that required all social networking interactions to be moderated by someone sensible before they go out and ban any direct access to Twitter/Facebook/comments.

But I'd also…

Tom Semmens

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:32:31 +1200

It’s probably no surprise to you that I know a few people in the Labour Party.

Perhaps you could do them all a favour then and try to be a bit more on message during an election campaign?

National’s election strategy is to do a six week long poor little…

Kumara Republic

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:27:45 +1200

I don’t think that that is a serious suggestion. That is really not an option.

Has 'standing unopposed' become a euphemism for 'no one else suitable could be found'?

It seems Gibson is the Opposition's answer to Aaron Gilmore & Claudette Hauiti.

Russell Brown

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:26:48 +1200

Gibson ranting in comments for a story about Labour's difficulty in finding a Rangitata candidate. That's a fairly astonishing level of unprofessionalism right there.

Steve Barnes

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 11:26:37 +1200

he compared John Key to Shylock, the Jewish moneylender in The Merchant of Venice. The comment, which also declared that “many here have no idea what [Key’s] connection to the GFC is”,You could have just said “Money Lender”, most of us already have a clue as to who Shylock is…

Graeme Edgeler

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:58:49 +1200

With hindsight, it's clear that if Labour couldn't find a better candidate than Gibson, it should not have stood a candidate.

I don't think that that is a serious suggestion. That is really not an option.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:55:46 +1200

Portia faces life...
…when meat began to be sold by the kilogram
But usually exsanguinated!
…to keep those Shysters in the legal department happy!

Ross Mason

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:48:37 +1200

I blame Shakespeare…

It got lost on people when meat began to be sold by the kilogram.

Kumara Republic

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:46:08 +1200

which has become even less winnable with recent boundary changes
Especially taking in Jenny Shipley's former electorate.

Ian Dalziel

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:38:13 +1200

I blame Shakespeare...

can we get it out of the schools?

John Morrison

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 10:13:59 +1200

This Gibson case doesn't dismay me as much as the party activists who publicly criticize and undermine the leadership and party itself. All this does is show the public Labour is disunited. The leadership was selected by a very democratic process and all members, including MPs, are obliged to get…

Tinakori

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 09:51:59 +1200

I bet he married a Maori princess too

Paul Campbell

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 09:40:02 +1200

Interestingly Gibson also claims to be part Jewish

Public Address

Tue, 12 Aug 2014 09:40:02 +1200

Discussion from blog post.