BTW folks, breaking news:

Where's that popcorn that was going around earlier?

Parliament's speaker Margaret Wilson has referred the controversy swirling around money donated by billionaire Owen Glenn to NZ First leader Winston Peters' legal fund to the privileges committee.

Question: Winston's ministerial lifespan after the last confidence and supply vote of this Parliament — measurable hours or…

George Balani lost a lot of face when he was tied to Terry Brown and Phil Gifford in the Mayoral election campaign of 2005.

Shep,
as one of the reporters that actually wrote about that at the time may I point out that it was in 2002, not 2005. Also…

CCC bailing out Dave Henderson, hmm. Does that mean the council will be land lord to a Strip Club? This Chancery Lane club is connected to the once feared and now…

Could someone do a bit on investigative journalism on David

Could someone(Shep) please cook my dinner:)

The easter bunny .....now that's a sect i wouldn't fuck with.

Damn right:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/mortaljive/Extra%20Images/michael-sowa-frohe-ostern-s.jpg

I also wondered whether you were actually allowed to record a conversation someone without telling them what you were doing.

As far as journalism is concerned the rule is pretty much as follows:

You can record a conversation without the other person knowing but you can not broadcast that recording…

Getting caught, usually.

Not getting away with getting caught, surely.

DB Breweries – which owns Tui, that makes the billboards aren't aware of the finer points to the Electoral Finance Act.

Righty ho.

Who the hell is? It seems the people who voted for the damn thing didn't bother reading it first...

DB Breweries – which owns Tui, that makes the billboards aren't aware of the finer points to the Electoral Finance Act.

Righty ho.

Oh, FFS, this kinda stuff brings out the renegade graffiti artist in me....hmmm, must be a big blank wall round parliament somewhere...

So what is political sin?

Getting caught, usually.

He's going to make this a character debate. From what I hear down the line these politicians know each other very well. I guess he feels his character is a mess and his defence is, "have a look at this place."

"he who is…

Seriously, he's eaten too many fruit off the loopy tree this week.

My favourite one is the one where god says , "at least we're talking".
like we're the ones holding back. ...

The easter bunny .....now that's a sect i wouldn't fuck with.

jesus is always saying sensible things but god tends to shoot his mouth off a bit.

I've got a mate who wants to buy a few billboards and chuck a bit of old testament wisdom up around auckland just so we can see what god is really saying.

"KILL YOUR FIRSTBORN" – GOD

"THROW THE MONEY LENDERS OUT OF THE TEMPLE"- JESUS (For Winstons sake:)

One thing we need to really start discussing is population growth. How many people is too many ? Is Auckland full ? IMO, a lot of the value of living here derives from the comparatively low population density. Uncrowded beaches and all that.

Then again, one's tranquility is another's…

I've got a mate who wants to buy a few billboards and chuck a bit of old testament wisdom up around auckland just so we can see what god is really saying.

"KILL YOUR FIRSTBORN" -…

They did not such thing, Kyle. They were invited, allocated four questions and were not required to submit them to MFAT, Winston's office or the US State Department for approval beforehand. If Winnie feels "disrespected", perhaps he's nobody to blame but himself.

I didn't mean physically crash.

I meant, ask…

The Standard has unpicked that one

I also wondered whether you were actually allowed to record a conversation someone without telling them what you were doing.

The most interesting question from my perspective, and one that never really gets discussed is why have 20% of the total Maori population left for Oz?

The fairly recent publication on Maori in Australia had some extremely interesting findings around motivations for leaving NZ for…

I think our seniors deserve a better champion than that pompous lazy fool.

Indeed they do – but he's the one they voted for, so we have to put up with him. Just like we have to put up with Bob the Builder.

However, of all the valid reasons given by Mr Key for us to elect a National government, this was the clincher: "The only time we've won the rugby World Cup we had…

One thing we need to really start discussing is population growth. How many people is too many ? Is Auckland full ? IMO, a lot of the value of living here derives from the comparatively low population density. Uncrowded beaches and all that.

I was wondering this just this morning…

after thirty years about Kiwi bludgers whose only stop on the way to the beach is to sign up for welfare

Especially when there was that report that came out a couple of years ago that said the kiwis are the highest performing demographic in Australia, and that we totally…

I'm with Craig, I don't like racism of any stripe. But I don't think fear of being marginalised by sheer numbers is the same as bigoted fears based around someone's race.

One thing we need to really start discussing is population growth. How many people is too many ? Is…

I'm sick of nanny state and MMP

Another NZ First donation questioned
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4637456a6160.html .

The Standard has unpicked that one: the deposit of $19,998 is almost certainly not for one cheque (which would have to have been declared under the old rules) but two (which wouldn't).

So no actual lawbreaking: just more great steaming piles of hypocrisy.

Thinking of migrants as a threat is rooted deeply in irrational fear, so it is not susceptible to rational arguments.

Are you saying that the land confiscations of the 19th century are entirely unrelated to immigration ? Many Maori feel that immigration led directly to marginalisation, ergo, immigration puts Maori…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4637455a6160.html

Contacted for comment yesterday, the party leader, Winston Peters, said: "Phil, I told you I'm not talking to a lying wanker like you. See you." He then hung up.

Q You've campaigned against secret trusts.

A No, I haven't. What I've campaigned against are those massive donations that are there to buy policy and buy favours.

Thinking of migrants as a threat is rooted deeply in irrational fear, so it is not susceptible to rational arguments. That fear is…

Thanks, Jeremy, that's the perfect antidote to those bloody billboards purportedly communicating from above.

When you're desperate enough — and trying to get sense out of Turia or Peters is desperate — I'll call for divine intervention, and cover all my bases while doing do. :) A well-aimed thunderbolt, psychic…

so having Rodney live with Mum could be interesting thing.

Might do wonders for her foxtrot though :)

These guys hardly post anymore . It's like they've lost interest.

Thanks, Jeremy, that's the perfect antidote to those bloody billboards purportedly communicating from above.

Rodney Hide lives with your mum & dad?

Wrodney lives with your mum & dad, so there.

Yes it should have been HIS Mum & Dad.

Is he still living with Mum & Dad?

Rodney Hide lives with your mum & dad?

Is he still living with Mum & Dad?

what kind of money are we talking? i could make some shit up.
Everyone knows winston sells bad acid right. Rodney Hides still coming down from his last purchase. $10,000 and you'll get the…

Given the propensity of certain organisations to hire private investigators and the like before, during and after the last election that would not surprise me.

Well, Don, are you talking about TVNZ because that's the specific allegation Peters has been making. Surely, it would be a simple matter to summon…

Hannibal Lector......mate I'd eat him for breakfast.

We were told there's a pot of money for more dirt on Peters and NZ First.

Given the propensity of certain organisations to hire private investigators and the like before, during and after the last election that would not surprise me.

I agree but it wouldn't hurt to try and understand it

You have a point, again, but does it have to feel like you've accepted an invitation to a pot luck dinner for two from Hannibal Lecter? I know this sounds pretentious, but I find it almost physically painful trying…

It’s not a numbers game …..but then again, it is disappointing to read that statisticians state the annual growth rate of the Maori population is projected to slow from 1.4% in 2002 to 1.2% in 2021.

The statisticians…

I agree but it wouldn't hurt to try and understand it. Look we all have our angles. I mean we all hate Wellingtonians right but I'm not sure we should…

you guys' arguing that his voters deserve someone better to represent them gives me the willies, frankly. It's THEIR decision. What would you do, give them a list of suitable candidates to coose from?

Of course I wouldn't give them a list. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion…

These guys hardly post anymore . It's like they've lost interest.

activities/aspiration of still trying to recognise what the actual real 1840 partnership entitles you to as a maori (party). So maybe you want to say let's just hold the immigration until my children are as healthy as yours.

Except, Jeremy, what actually happens (especially when Tariana Turia gets her freak…

Nice to know I'm not the only one whos "taken a break" from Post Grad study.

Lucy that line of "the books are coming to get me" – loved it so much.

But in an immigration sense…

absolutely craig especially as winnie is descended from them. Read your science Peters.

IMHO this is felt particuarly strongly with older working class guys, I don't know why but it's there and it's almost certainly a complicated
emotion but these guys are in all other aspects stand…

well, immigration is an issue dude and supporters of reform that might slow it down shouldn't be called racist.

That's a fair point Jeremy. I regard immigration as an area of public policy that desperately needs a free and frank debate, because you can't say the status quo is as…

well, immigration is an issue dude and supporters of reform that might slow it down shouldn't be called racist. Winnies not really the right face for a racist party.

I actually support immigration strongly but…

Sorry guys. Go and bitch about it over a drink after work, but don't act like your relationship with a politician is national news.

Russell, I'd generally agree with you but I'll offer a qualified defence here. Peters isn't missing any opportunity to frame himself as the victim of a…

for sure brother, it's certainly a militant minority but it's still 5%. Why the militancy and to be fair most nzfirst supporters I've met seem as crazy/uncrazy as any other supporter.

The thing is, Winston does pander to a (wide) racist streak in the NZ electorate. It's despicable, but the fact is that it's there. (And no-one can tell me that Brash in his time…

Also, although a large proportion of Peters' supporters are elderly, it does not follow that the reverse is true. Most old people see through him as well as the rest of us.

Craig, I'm going to guess you have your pinky finger extended because you're precious, (just like the other boomers).

You might want to work towards the middle. And FWIW I was born in 1972, so more a 'baby bust' brat than a boomer.

To be quite honest, I'd be quite…

For sure , they should be on everyones list. Give them the city. There kinda dying but that's all they've got.

My point is that 5% of NZ voters DID vote for NZ First. You can't ignore that large a proportion of the voting public. It's not like they're the National Front,…

yeh, that sucks, you're right but other parties aren't so keen on keys either. (no puns please)

I love the analysis about the cause of McCully's disquiet :-) Just how many "Dark Princes" does National need?

I'll have a big Machiavelli and fries with that shake.

(I'm not sure what I mean by that, but it sounded funny.)

I'm just saying: God loves all his Children.

God certainly does, but I've no delusions of Godhood. There's some And to steal a line from CSI: The evidence doesn't lie. At the 2005 election, Winston Peters was given the pink slip by the electors of Tauranga, and 94.28% of people…

and more power to you brother, let's face it there are sectors of our society who need to be braindirtyied thoroughly with the beauty of science. It's beyond fucking disgusting.

That's…

I'm just saying: God loves all his Children. And so should a democracy. And no, I don't think we really can cut the elderly from Winston's (you say pathology, I say legitimate electoral base). They are the ones voting for him.

In my opinion, better the elderly, who deserve…

Explain more. What's' the…

I guess MMP is saying if there are 5% of ya we might as well see you and hear what you're about. Is 5% too low? Personally…

By the way, I hear that the announcement that former campaign manager and Exclusive Brethren bagman Steven Joyce will get a list-only placing has gone down like a lump of lead with National’s caucus. Half of them are grumpy because they don’t like his…

These people deserve a champion. Seeing the end of him would be like losing Mr Ranapia, satisfying in the short term but disenfranchising the legitimate concerns of many Kiwis.

David:

If I ever start behaving like a pathological and paranoid liar who has never seen a nasty little itch he…

You're right. We should have asked her about torture, and whether she had any fear of ending up in the Hague like Karazdic.

Which is a roundabout way of saying "never respect a politician. if you do, they'll get away with murder (or in this case, torture and war crimes)".…

Is there anyone on here who, in a strange and small way, will actually miss Winston once he’s gone in a few months time?

I think you're assuming too much – the man has the survivability of a cockroach. if someone dropped a nuke on Wellington and turned the centre…

In related news. Don't you think it was disrespectful and rude to ask about the Peters issue when Condoleezza Rice was in town?

You're right. We should have asked her about torture, and whether she had any fear of ending up in the Hague like Karazdic.

But I will say this: he articulates what an awful lot of people are feeling; that 'the bastards*' are out to 'screw the little guy', and whether or not this is justified, (and I personally…

I seem to recall reading somewhere that one-third of all degrees granted in the last few years are in commerce.

That's not the end of the world, though. Commerce covers a very wide range of topics. There's the classic accounting and finance, plus economics, international business, international trade, marketing (*hiss*),…

He's the voice of the angry, the unsettled, the paranoid and the distrusting... disenfranchising the legitimate concerns of many Kiwis

First up, I'm not sure it's a good thing if the angry and paranoid get a voice. My reading of history is that it doesn't usually work out to well…

P is a misunderstood drug. It gives me the energy to really make a difference in my local community

I can imagine. A history MPhil is hard enough!

Precisely why I'm planning to bugger off permanently to the sciences once my BA is complete. *g* I have a friend who did Honours in history over in Queensland – by the end of the year he was practically huddled in…

A history PhD is very difficult.

I can imagine. A history MPhil is hard enough!

If Key was to become PM, he'd have marginally more or less experience than David Lange

You're not alone

"John Key really has charisma, doesn't he? He's like the young David Lange, only thinner, richer and more out of touch with the needs of his constituents. And he's the leader…

or tainted by association with (David Round,...)

Could you expand on this a little? I knew David Round when I was at Canterbury and he was a reasonable sort of chap. A bit of a greenie too. When did he turn into a raging reactionary? Staying in Christchurch all your…

It's Investigate and Ian Wishart's more fantastical vapourings.

National's leadership lacks depth and maturity.

That's certainly my view.

If Key was to become PM, he'd have marginally more or less experience than David Lange and as much as I personally liked and admired David, it's pretty well documented that he struggled with aspects of the job having not…

And out of Key, English or Cullen, who learned the most?

A history PhD is very difficult.

Which is why I dropped out of mine after four years. :)

The relationship between the media and New Zealand First leader Winston Peters has hit a new low.

Sorry guys. Go…

I can bore to Olympic standards on what is wrong with immigration policy here and across the ditch, but I stand by my assertion that "Dog doesn't bite man, but it might – perhaps" isn't news. It's Investigate and Ian Wishart's more fantastical vapourings.

Surely a serious business, whoever…

the key, if you will, is whether it teaches you how to think and analyse information.

And out of Key, English or Cullen, who learned the most? On top of that you have the experience gained as an MP since 1981 as opposed to English's 1990 or Key's 2002.
National's…

He don't need no stinking law degree!

Do they smell any worse that the others... mine's from Waikato, apparently that makes it really smelly!

OTOH, I don't think one degree is necessarily better than another for running the country – the key, if you will, is whether it teaches you…

So in other words Craig, you think its fine for some wannabe local aristocrat to assert his feudal right to paint "Vote for me" on every building in town, and because he owns the town only have to account for the paint in his electoral return?

No, Tom, in very…

Don't you think it was disrespectful and rude to ask about the Peters issue when Condoleezza Rice was in town? The news article on TV3 was inappropriate. Duncan Garner had no right to ask questions about internal politics when we had a foreign government representative at the press conference.

One…

Hide lodges Peters complaint with Serious Fraud Office

This gets better and better. I vote that we make a complaint about *every* political trust fund to the SFO.

That should keep them busy until they get disbanded.

In related news. Don't you think it was disrespectful and rude to ask about the Peters issue when Condoleezza Rice was in town?

No. Asking Doctor Rice when the hell she's going to get married, and whether she feels any shame about being the house nigger of the Bush Administration…

I think it was fairly obvious what was on offer to them.

Do you think so? I thought the ball-scratcher was heralded as an enterprising, can-do, go-get-em type?

As opposed to the useless, inarticulate oaf he turned out to be?

Moving along to Tauranga, surely the locals might think about re-electing Winston, given that National offered them one of the most useless MPs* in living memory for the last three years.

I think it was fairly obvious what was on offer to them.

Perhaps we could give Tauranga some sort…

Duncan Garner had no right to ask questions about internal politics when we had a foreign government representative at the press conference.

Bad form!

Been there done that ;-)

Garners behaviour at the press conference following Rices visit was, in my view, disgusting but considering that our "News" is merely a…

Is there anyone on here who, in a strange and small way, will actually miss Winston once he’s gone in a few months time?

No. He's done as much harm to the NZ political discourse as anyone.

I mean, on the rare occasions when he has championed reasonable ideas, eg…

Is there anyone on here who, in a strange and small way, will actually miss Winston once he’s gone in a few months time?

nope.

Nope too. As amusing as he can occassionally be, he's past it and probably was a while back... sadly not all the voters feel this…

Is there anyone on here who, in a strange and small way, will actually miss Winston once he’s gone in a few months time?

In much the same way as I miss the liquid breakfasts and passing out into pools of my own vomit that used to bookend my boozing…

Is there anyone on here who, in a strange and small way, will actually miss Winston once he’s gone in a few months time?

nope.

Oh well, at least there will be the 12 month Electoral Petition to look forward to.

I drew a line
I drew a line for you
Oh what a thing to do
And it was all yellow
Coldplay "Yellow"

Coldplay hmmmmmmmm.

Sorry, I must clarify that. It was 2.5 million shares at a current value of around $400.000. If the shares were worth more that the allowance as long as any taxes were paid it was legal, but slippery.

Not anywhere close to the slipperiness of claiming, under Parliamentary privilege, that…

Then call it as such. However, Young at no point came anywhere close to accusing Key of being a literal gay-basher, and the direct leap to that comparison, even in sarcasm, was rather confusing.

I was, confused that is. Thanks Lucy.

Craig, I thoroughly enjoy your writing style, it's exceptional,…

Is there even any reason to expect he will hold Epsom? I can't recall him rendering that electorate any notable service.

Moving along to Tauranga, surely the locals might think about re-electing Winston,…

Um, no Paul. "X. didn't meet with Y., but there's got to be a secret agenda in there somewhere" is Ian Wishart territory, and I don't see why it shouldn't be called out as such.

We might be talking at cross purposes. My comment was in relation to this part…

Um, no Paul. "X. didn't meet with Y., but there's got to be a secret agenda in there somewhere" is Ian Wishart territory, and I don't see why it shouldn't be called out as such.

Then call it as such. However, Young at no point came anywhere close to accusing…

Another day, another promise

The money could have been lawfully laundered from the Spencer Trust to other legal entities and to the party in smaller amounts.

As for the Peters transcript, I wonder how the journalists resist the temptation to 'do a Mallard' at Winston as he leaves an event like that. Sheesh!

Thomas:

Let me answer that question through interpretive dance. Take it away, The Jam!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv55WsedLYI

One wonders how politically explosive anyone getting hold of photocopies of the originals of perfectly legal cheques paid to the Waitemata trust anytime in the last five-six years might be during an election campaign.

Probably about as explosive as knowing who really made these donations or the other 100s of…

Hide lodges Peters complaint with Serious Fraud Office

That is debatable, the fact that he could hide the assets in his family trust and , therefore not declare them, is something that needs looking at and, in my opinion, Winnie was right in bringing it to the fore.

Um, not the allegation Winston actually made but never mind...…

That is debatable, the fact that he could hide the assets in his family trust and , therefore not declare them, is something that needs looking at and, in my opinion, Winnie was right in bringing it to the fore.

It seems pretty desperate to me. Unless you're proposing to…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV49lLwrpHE&feature=related

The NZPA transcript is great stuff. Some interesting answers therein.

I think your definition of 'interesting' differs from mine Don. I wish they'd just all run headlines "Winston is a complete git... again".

Is that the case in NZ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb6FaWkCPXY

"us vs. Winston" slant in a lot of the comments coming from Espiners, Garners et al.

Garners behaviour at the press conference following Rices visit was, in my view, disgusting but considering that our "News" is merely a vehicle for advertising, did not surprise me at all.
If, God forbid,…

I think it's more important to find out whether he's stopped beating his wife, personally.

Craig, that's a fair misdirection; Young's point is surely that Key's increasingly compromised. How can he credibly claim to be an alternative to Clark when there's very little a National government would do compared with…

Love to know who else has been paying political bills in NZ. Why? Because it leads to a healthier democracy.

Really, has John Key stopped cruising Ponsonby Road looking for fags to bash yet?

I think it's more important to find out whether he's stopped beating his wife, personally.

And Craig Young scooped everyone ...

And what a pearler it is...

Was it just a fraternal church visit with Exclusive Brethren sect members on this side of the Tasman? No known National Party figures were seen meeting with Hales, which may indicate that the Opposition has finally learnt its…

Well, John Key could have asked Winston how big his cock is and that would have been ruled out of order too.

I was going on what Brent Edwards said last night on Checkpoint: that National had an opportunity later, didn't take it and Peters was surprised: so much so…

National's former campaign manager and new list candidate Steven Joyce has defended the Exclusive Brethren's right to wage a third-party campaign in 2005, but says he no longer has contact with the group.

This quote is from the NZH article. Is Joyce saying he thinks what the EBs did was…

And is Winston Peters looking forward to finding out?

I'd like to find out whether Winston actually cared (because I find it hard to believe he didn't know) the allegation he stood up and threw across the House at Craig Foss — in effect, that he'd made a false declaration…

This feast of farce extended yesterday to John Key declaring in the House that he, as Prime Minister, would have been asking the hard questions of Winston Peters — and then failing to ask Winston Peters any questions at all, despite having the opportunity to do so.

Well, John Key…

And Craig Young scooped everyone ...