You have to wonder where these abrupt ideological changes of tack come from with Garth. The comment about innate spirituality proves that it's still him – that ignorant condescension, as Craig says – but the rest of it's a mystery.

In a weird way, Sam, the more I look at…

Just a minor detail Craig, suggest focus on the main argument

Sorry, ChrisW, but a drooling fundie's promotion of the idea that Maori deserve respect because we have a 'spirituality' that the white people he's previously condemned as Godless moral degenerates lack isn't a 'minor detail'. It's racist, condescending white…

Nor will you find among other races the innate spirituality which connects Maori with their natural environment and possessions..

Oh, I'm sorry but on what level am I supposed to find that praiseworthy as opposed to mind-bendingly offensive noble savage bullshit?

It seems to me that those who espouse the "one nation, one people" concept are invariably white, and stand to the right of the political spectrum. That, in itself,…

In any moral dilemma, the question to be asked is simple: what…

That your serious consideration hasn't yet come up with a better way to crack that egg (in order to make an omelette for super-Auckland?) perhaps means plan A was a good idea.

Or that I'm still coming to a response that isn't going to end up in a blizzard of…

Come now, at least you got to be a student, whereas they spent those years fighting World War Two.

You know something, even if the Second World War hasn't happened the odds of my father heading off to uni were rather long — having left school at elevenand all... And…

Don't go tarring every one with the same brush.

Oh, I don't Andin. I'm just tired of people who think "I didn't fight in World War Two" is some kind of trump card in public policy debates. And, all too often, that's exactly the level Grey Power operates on, and…

"Hate to see what happens when the Baby Boomers really get going in their dotage."

Don't go tarring every one with the same brush.

Around here, there seems no such thing as a jack.

Ahem.

Will I really have to duplicate this ?

Remember: big fish, little fish, cardboard box.

I was in the BNZ Central Christchurch branch today (waiting a bit for the computer to unfreeze so I could put the pin on my credit card) and looked around.

I was trying to put my finger on what wasn't quite…

My grandparents and my parents enjoying their dotage with the odd tea dance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BQLR5FFwok

Will I really have to duplicate this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zXc6_LmtAw

Or something else perhaps...

Please do describe how to make em pay.

Seriously — the relentless, obnoxious, engorged sense of entitlement is a wonder to behold.

Quite. Hate to see what happens when the Baby Boomers really get going in their dotage.

I'm going to raise their marginal tax rates something special; they never paid for their university education in the way…

When i'm in grey power I'm gonna be pushing for Sonic Youth to rewrite the national anthem.

Rubbish. You're going to be telling Kim Gordon to put on some clothes and stop it with that God-awful noise. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23fL0zR-wEM&feature=related

but I'd stand up and cheer the first politician who had the balls to tell Grey Power that the entire world does not revolve around them

Yeh, but your talking about folks who are slowly saying goodbye to the entire world. Grey Power seems to lack a vision beyond their…

Grey Power may be a bit blue rinse ( a colour I do love) but they aint gullible and are already expressing their dismay (as brought up in the House today.)

Oh God, do you really want to get me started on that pack of prats? I know the triennial…

Goodness me, cuddling up to the old folks, shades of Winston, eh?

Not fair Kerry. Winston always cuddled up to the ol' folk. He knew he wasn't far off himself. The only ol' folk Rodney has had time for is Sir Rog. :)

When Hide uses the term 'multiculturalism', I think he really means 'model minority'.

When anyone uses the term 'multiculturalism', I tend to ask them exactly what they mean. Saves a lot of wasted time and pointless cross talk.

as Rodney Hide seems to be suggesting with his comment about muliculturalism.

When Hide uses the term 'multiculturalism', I think he really means 'model minority'.

I'm absolutely certain we can agree to disagree on that (and much else) with perfect amiability. :) But there's no need for you to shut up, because you've raised in my mind some perfectly fair questions that be kicked around without getting into Kiwibog territory.

I've got some issues with that answer (but thanks for providing it) but am going to have to go away for a bit and think through a very careful response. You've raised some interesting questions, and don't want to (unintentionally) derail the discussion into the kind of pointless and…

The Royal Commission went into some depth, and were clear that the relationship of the city and its people with iwi was a big part of Auckland's unique position on the world stage over the next…

the more important point to me was that he seemed to be using 'multiculturalism' as a convenient excuse for ignoring biculturalism.

This is a serious question: What exactly do you mean by 'biculturalism'?

Let's not get diverted into ethnicity when the proposed Maori seats on the new Auckland Council are about honouring the Treaty.

ORLY? You're going to have to expand on that for me.

Hide clearly needs Treaty education. Should be compulsory for anyone taking up public office in this nation.

North Shore City looks like the council and community boards? In the popular imagination, perhaps, but the stats don't lie.

From that page:

6.3 percent of people in North Shore City belong to the Māori ethnic group, compared with 14.6 percent for all of New Zealand.

Sounds like it's not…

I suspect he has the most monocultural constituency as well, certainly in terms of Maori citizens.

North Shore City looks like the council and community boards? In the popular imagination, perhaps, but the stats don't lie.

I didn't tell you to shut up. Just called you on something that you tend to do a lot around here.

Kyle: And you're still doing the "I deem you irelevant" hand wave, while dipping into the Derailing for Dummies playbook. I'm going to take my own advice and stop…

It's unfair to point out that the media's favourite mayoral rentaquote on Maori representation doesn't exactly have the best track record on this issue? That he leads the most monocultural Council in Auckland?

I suspect he has the most monocultural constituency as well, certainly in terms of Maori citizens.

But…

Mayors run as individuals, not party lists, so a mayor doesn't actually control who else ends up in council

Certainly not, but (on the QT and with some authority) I can tell you no leader of the National Party can assume their preferences for electorate and list candidates will be…

Mayors run as individuals, not party lists, so a mayor doesn't actually control who else ends up in council, nor do they control the structure of council.

Fair point, though the leader of our political parties doesn't get final say on list composition either, and Councils vary about how committee…

But until you get some actual moderator privileges around here (or are running your own blog), could you give the tiresome "I pronounce you irrelevant, so shut up" routine a rest?

I didn't tell you to shut up. Just called you on something that you tend to do a lot…

Not applying your typical deflection are you Craig?

Not this time, to be fair – see his 10.44 above.

That's nice. I fail to see any link between him and Rodney Hide or ACT. Not applying your typical deflection are you Craig?

Kyle: Don't "see" it — that's nice, but not my problem. You don't have to agree with me, and you're certainly under no obligation to engage with…

Minority seeks rights by getting a majority? Doesn't usually happen.

And often that would be a case of "sorry guys, worst form of government except all others etc etc..." but in this case it's "Minority seeks to affirm (admittedly complex) rights contractually stated at birth of nation but now brushed…

Rather ironic (or highly hypocritical) when you look at the total white-out that is the NSCC. Especially as I've seen no evidence that he previously showed any enthusiasm for reserved seats on the NSCC for Maori or any other totally unrepresented

That's nice. I fail to see any link between…

I missed a train jumping tracks somewhere. How is the North Shore Mayor responsible for the ACT party list?

Williams was all over the media yesterday describing the Cabinet as a "cabal" of "middle-aged white men" that had behaved exactly like the regime in Fiji to disenfranchise Maori. He's aboslutely…

God bless Gizzie. :)

Agreed the story is weird, incomplete, and not entirely atypical of Gisborne politics. Yes I was trying to compress forty aspects into fewer.

But given Cabinet's rejection of the Commission's plan A, perhaps it would be for others such as yourself Craig to outline what good…

Carol: I'd say the same thing to North Shore Mayor Andy Williams — when it comes to cabals of middle-age, middle-class beige men (and the occasional vag), you can't do better (worse?) than the NSCC.

I missed a train jumping tracks somewhere. How is the North Shore Mayor responsible for…

Are they like occasional tables? Can I rest a martini on one? :)

They might as well be — given how that clown school dropout of a Mayor appears able to be an irresponsible idiot without restraint.

The degree to which these councillors are representative of Maori has been a subject of local media discussion recently.

First: The linked story is fucking weird. God bless Gizzie. :) But it actually had fuck all to do with "the degree to which these councillors are representative of Maori" as…

the occasional vag

Are they like occasional tables? Can I rest a martini on one? :)

Craig, if Rodney was genuinely concerned about improving representation by non-old white welathy males, then perhaps he could start with his own party.

Carol: I'd say the same thing to North Shore Mayor Andy Williams — when it comes to cabals of middle-age, middle-class beige men (and the occasional vag),…

Belatedly for the record Mikaere and all, it seems the Bay of Plenty regional council is the only territorial local authority which has chosen to have specific Maori seats as provided for in legislation – Gisborne does not.

Ta. Teach me to repeat a Michael Laws factoid...

There's a lovely Internets term for that: concern troll.

Because it's always cute when someone who isn't a member of a minority group runs around telling that group that their concerns are not worth bothering about, and are "counter-productive" one way or another. For whom, one wonders.

It's also cute…

He [Hide] was concerned local government was dominated by 'old white males' and it should be more representative of all groups, not just Maori.

There's a lovely Internets term for that: concern troll.

Because it's always cute when someone who isn't a member of a minority group runs…

the Maori Party will instead get favours for the Seabed and Foreshore in compensation

Nah. Cars. Free air travel. Being called "Minister". That's basically the deal Maori get out of giving NACT their support.

That compromise council in full: 22 members of the Northern Club, one woman and/or Maori, one buffoon and a jerkoff.

any increase of fruits

Hey, is that also a subtle slur? :)

Is Hide a jerk off?

yes
no
maybe

Hide is a Bafoon and a Jerk off.

Has Hide denied being a jerk off yet?

Hard News: No Surprises

Bring down the government – they don't, they don't speak for us

Brilliant.

You may be aware that usury was once outlawed in Judaism. Indeed the good Book of Leviticus says "Thou shalt not give him money upon usury nor exact of him any increase of fruits".

I think Craig's point was that because the bible says this (in England at least), the…

Of course if Aucklanders really wanted Maori Seats at the table they could get off their arses and set up a referendium on the subject
I believe the present law allows that at the moment

Plus, it's probably not true. There is no-one who can actually sign the petition to…

Of course if Aucklanders really wanted Maori Seats at the table they could get off their arses and set up a referendium on the subject
I believe the present law allows that at the moment

Minority seeks rights by getting a majority? Doesn't usually happen.

• Quantum field theory, the theory of quantum mechanics for field-like systems
• Quantum Fourier transform, a discrete Fourier transform
• Quantitative feedback theory
• Queen's Film Theatre, a cinema in Northern Ireland
• "Quoted For Truth" – an…

While Jews of medieval times were often forced…

Wow, that's taking tendentiousness and dishonest argument to a whole new level.

Gio: Oh, QFT. Or more usefully, look up the difference between denotation and connotation some time.

Hard News: No Surprises

Bring down the government – they don't, they don't speak for us

I had no thoughts about a Jewish connection to Key nor saw anything nasty in Lukes comments, but now…

Isn't this another nail in the coffin of partnership,

The Treaty of Waitangi is a partnership. Auckland is historically a Maori city but then we all signed a partnership.I would have thought
it would have been an excellent time to remind the nation just what we have to get our…

Luke, I went out of my way to say that I didn't think you were making an anti-Semitic slur but it was a damn odd word to choose with some pretty unfortunate associations when applied to someone of Jewish descent.

Wow, that's taking tendentiousness and dishonest argument to a whole…

Kerry, that's what I was trying to say but I was too busy taking anti-semitic shots at JK and not staying on thread.

Luke, I went out of my way to say that I didn't think you were making an anti-Semitic slur but it was a damn odd word to…

But what does Sharples get for his patience? Isn't this another nail in the coffin of partnership,

What the hell does that mean? Sounds about as silly as Rodders threatening to take his ball and go... somewhere if he doesn't get his own way. Seems to me that the Maori…

Open Government Bar Camp

They've got the House Full sign us: dang, wish I'd heard about it sooner, would have been in boots and all. Must ask Glen and Nat how Official Information / Ombudsmen fit with their project, with it is central or just tangentially relevant.

But what does Sharples get for his patience? Isn't this another nail in the coffin of partnership, isn't this still on (treaty) paper supposed to be a partnership…

Would the world really tilt…

Hide seems to see Maori as being just another minority group like, say, Italians or Chinese. From today's DomPost:

He [Hide] was concerned local government was dominated by 'old white males' and it should be more representative of all groups, not just Maori.

Biculturalism seems to have passed him…

Because all Jews are usurers and don't have imagination or innovation?

I'll assume you're teasing, Ben, and it's a very good one at that. :) I don't know about you, but "usurer" isn't a term I see in contemporary use very often outside the haunts of Jew-haters and the more…

The problem with that particular sneer, Luke, is that it has some rather nasty anti-Semitic baggage attached.

Because all Jews are usurers and don't have imagination or innovation? Not the first thing that popped into my head, I must say. It was more "mmmm yessss, Bankers, boring buggers aren't they?".

Has anyone else noticed that Key's circular argument: We can't implement Maori seats in Auckland because we'd need to do it for the rest of the country and we don't want to do it for the rest of the country ...

...like the Maori seats in Parliament? Next on the…

The problem with having a usurer as a Prime Minister is that he has to have advisers to make up for his own lack of imagination and innovation.

The problem with that particular sneer, Luke, is that it has some rather nasty anti-Semitic baggage attached. I'm certain you didn't intend…

He [Hide] was concerned local government was dominated by 'old white males' and it should be more representative of all groups, not just Maori.

Biculturalism seems to have passed him by.…

Key's appeal is to our better natures

You're right, SimonG.
It'll be interesting to see how Key stands up to Family First & co post-referendum. That Larry Baldock is a nasty little man .. banging on about democracy whilst ignoring the fact that, er, he got voted out of Parliament.

Is anyone really surprised at the government’s decision on Maori seats for the Auckland Council?

I was really surprised at Tainui (in the person of Tuku Morgan) toy chucking like Valerie Vili on steroids.

Andy Williams holding his title as a reliably fatuous rentaquote, not so much... Though I had to…

The Prime Minister has chosen the easiest and perhaps the most electorally advantageous course. In doing so, he has overlooked an inclusive approach that is in the best interests of the country.

At my uncle's tangi at the weekend I met Tiipene…

But understandably so. Key's appeal is to our better natures, to the need to believe. As with all sales patter, we learn from bitter experience that we are purchasing the product, not the salesman. There's no refund on his smile.

"Sure, I'm relaxed about that,…