And in…

I'd agree with you up to a point – "just because you have an arsehole, doesn't mean you have to be an arsehole" (h/t John Scalzi) is an excellent general…

That doesn't actually kill them does it ... oh well.

I'm with Craig here, I think attacking independent officers of the government is far more serious than attacking mere politicians. For the most part those politicians behave much like 14 yr old boys in Parliament so…

While I bow to the superior legal expertise of others hereabouts, I would class wild and baseless allegations of party political bias on the part of the Police Commissioner and the Auditor-General (who…

Perhaps though, as both Williams and Hooton are boosters for…

Why not? I’d note Matthew Hooten and Lila Harre’s services were retained after a particularly toxic round of mouth-farting at the height of the furore over dodgy election spending where I was sincerely gob-smacked that Ryan didn't shut them…

I wonder if he will none the less retain his spot?

RadioNZ published an apology this morning on 9 to noon.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2570658/statement-regarding-politics-segment

an "O" button?

This place needs a 'like'…

You too? Perhaps I'm a naif, but if Key and Cunliffe were the pair of evil genii Twitter would have us believe their life goals are tragically low. At the very…

Au contraire. I have a couple of Twitter followers who confidently tell me these things all the goddamn time.

Bloody oath – and as I’ve said on Twitter, while Matthew really needs to get his Cunliffe Derangement Syndrome seen to by a professional, there’s a few parties that really need…

Matthew Hooton basically lost the plot – and had to be brilliantly put in his place by Kathryn Ryan – on Nine to Noon last week, repeatedly accusing Cunliffe of lying about his…

Current blockage (if you'll excuse the word in the circumstances) is our lack of colonoscopists. Being addressed, but several years away yet at least.

Knock me down with a feather, etc.

Why would they? Before we get too carried away, it was a good poll but 1) after six weeks of favourable soft press for Labour and Cunliffe it would…

Death to the on-topic police, is what I say.

I assumed that was what Hooton was doing on RNZ?

Especially since National have not spent much political effort yet trying to minimise the bump Labour were always going to get.

I'll feel less guilty now. Actually it's one of the things I have always loved about PAS – that discussions can wander the way real life discussions do, with discussion possible even when people have directly opposing opinions. And sometimes the wandering leads to interesting places.

Ditto. I really like how a wild threadjack has turned out to be so useful.*

*This was, of course, my cunning plan all along.

Agreed. Shearer failed early. Cunliffe shouldn't, not least of all because he's a much more effective communicator but also because of where we are in the electoral cycle.

If they don't go vote for you, you can't count them as your voters any more, by definition.

If you can't get a poll bump after six weeks of pretty soft media coverage, your incompetence is truly inspiring. The trick is sustaining it.

Wait for the obligatory response from Trotter though... actually, why bother. It's predictable and not terribly informative.

That’s fair. At the same time though, evidence is starting to show that a supportive palliative environment, often with less aggressive treatments, is important to both quality and quantity of life. It’s…

I like very much that when pushed to a decision they fall back on evidence and not ideology.

An interesting poll result this morning too,…

My memory of that was that the reaction by the US Government trying to bully NZ into backing down was what sold it to the majority.

I'm not sure what could produce a…

“Thanks for your email. I’m quite keen not to count my chickens etc, but on the…

I'm thoroughly reassured. Do y'all want me to post his email here?

Greens up too.

Poacher turned gamekeeper..?

I have to laugh when duhjohnkey calls people "hippies"

Exactly.

What – leaving her with her portfolio and promoting her to number 4?

That hardly screams the message "your time is up, get out of here!" Also, if Cunliffe really does…

always

I think it's too soon to write of Mallard. I also doubt that Winston would ever want…

steady on

What the hell. We've been so on-topic lately. :-)

does seem to be one of those things that shows up the limitations of 19th century political models, yes.

Absolutely.

Most notable…

quite :)

I thought most of the cost is *marketing*?

Same

You reckon? I know people who vote more to the right, but are all about alt med. The anti-folate business was backed by both the Nats and the Greens (in Sue Kedgley's…

No that's not what I was getting at. You are right, as a partner, The Green Party is a pretty reasonable choice for Labour and for Labour voters. Most of them are fine…

It's not. Otoh, ACC part-funds three non-conventional therapies: osteopathy, chiropractic and acupuncture. They don't do…

I've got a problem with it, but in perspective against the ridiculous amounts of money that various other parties commit to their own little hobby horses, each of which is also not "proven"…

The number that used to get quoted is that each new drug costs US$20 billion to get to market. While I don't profess to love "big pharma" it is very easy to forget that with that cost it…

Jacinda Ardern just has not been getting much traction

I mostly agree, but also think Welfare has become the wedge issue for Labour. Contrast the very direct and successful approach by Jan Logie.

I think he's done pretty much…

"You know what they call alternative medicine. That's been proved to work? Medicine"

All the rest doesn't work and is bunk

Unproven and/or ineffective therapies, trusting patients, and overenthusiastic, non-medical, practitioners are…

Sorry, I try to stay on track but I can't help myself getting distracted with other discussions :(. Focus Bart Focus!

Though this also might be a way of sending a signal that its time for her to do so.

Which is not actually what the respective reviews say, if you take the trouble to read them.

I hope he answers and I hope their policy is just a leftover from an earlier period.

Totally.

Despite my fairly obvious dislike of alternative medicines there are some that have interesting science associated. While I personally got no value from acupuncture there is interesting science coming to bear of how acupuncture might work.

We've been through all this here…

There is no such thing as “alternative” medicines. There is medicine that works, and medicine that doesn’t. if it works (“works” being defined as producing measurable and repeatable improvements in proper clinical trials), it will be quickly taken up by medicine and used as another useful treatment tool.…

Despite my fairly obvious dislike of alternative medicines there are some that have interesting science associated. While I personally got no value from acupuncture there is interesting science coming to bear of how acupuncture might work.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/35301/title/The-Science-of-Stretch/

Essentially, what we are starting to…

__The best controlled studies show a clear pattern – with acupuncture the outcome does not depend on needle location or even needle insertion. Since these variables are what define "acupuncture" the only sensible conclusion is that acupuncture does not work. Everything else is the expected noise of clinical trials,…

No

At worst alternative (ineffective) medicine takes money away from therapies that are effective. This isn't a bottomless pool of money, every dollar you spend on a therapy that fails is a dollar that can't be spent elsewhere.

That isn't to say…

Fair point. My apologies, it is hard to try and write some of this stuff and make sure my tone is that same as the tone you read it. It is not my intent to sound patronising.

I would say though, is that idea is…

You do know that most if not all of the alternative pill makers are owned by large pharma companies?

Whenever I see discussions of acupuncture and placebos, I flash back to a segment the show Brainic did, where (not constrained by the ethical guidelines of…

Hardly – health stores are still out there in large numbers. People have lots of choice. My beef is that ACC for example will pay for acupuncture for someone like me who carelessly carries around huge pots…

Yup, and considering that the public health system is funded by taxpayers, the idea that it should be shutting down all rivals to big pharma, regardless of individual success with alternative…

And thats the core of the issue for me. in order for my to buy into any kind of treatment it has to be PROVEN to work that means blind tests, peer reviews.. all that shit.

Not it worked for my…

Well, we ought to find out before then whether King is planning to stand down, no?

Honest question ... if "science" doesn't have all the answers, what else underpins your "fairly-well-informed health choices"?

Whether I spend that money on a potion or, say,…

Woah. It's a bit of a diversion, but I see no scrap or anyone being threatened.

As I stated earlier, there are some "alt" therapies out there that work, and are demonstrated to do so in standard studies.

I'm not trying to ram homeopathy down anyone's throat, but it's had the concept of individual constitutions and heritability of some conditions way before genes were discovered,…

“Proven” drugs and vaccines have never worked for everybody. They work on a statistical basis: they are deemed to help enough people to justify…

It's a little more complicated than that. The point is whether certain alternative treatments ought to be funded by the state.

Sorry?

That is both a sweeping and ignorant remark-

***You wanna hear my family medical people complaining about how some of their most needy people do NOT respond to the 'proventreatments'?

I was born with nervous eczema. The *only* thing that ever truly helped (and – believe you me! Eczemacious sufferers will try pretty well everything!) was learning that…

Or not. But you seem to be backtracking from your earlier confident assertion that "Just to note, acupuncture does help with certain…

"Prominence" is all very nice, but I'd rather see policy with a decent…

No, it was more like the Emmy broadcast this avo. Few real surprises when it came to the headline ranks, one serious WTF? moment (let's just hope Shane Jones has more to offer on economic development than handing beneficiaries a shovel and forcing them to move to…

Given they are able to provide much more time than a…

Because historically, 'it's always been done that way.' Particularly in the two largest parties, and in the Ministerial list. The ranking is so strong within the Ministry that when two or more Ministers are meeting, they do…

And this? All good…

we don’t know what the policy actually means (and I suspect it was written this way…

+1 to that.
I'd also note that "alternative" technically covers physiotherapy and osteopathy, both of which have tangible benefits for injuries and overuse etc etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U

My favourite verse:

And try as hard as I like,
A small crack appears
In my diplomacy-dike.
“By definition”, I begin
“Alternative Medicine”, I continue
“Has either not been proved to work,
Or been proved not to work.
You know what they call “alternative medicine”…

I have no medical expertise but- 3 sisters who have worked over decades in various nursing fields. And a GP s-i-l who does not hesitate to recommend a consult with an acupuncture -qualified- practitioner, with certain clients. As do my…

Which "complementary" treatments are evidence-based?

Sorry to be picky but this is my bete noir.

I don't disagree with you (with the qualification that I don't think Annette King is going anywhere in 2014, so I…

And then acted.

(Can't believe that…

I'm not familiar with the policy, but notice the word "selected". Other nations seem to have got their heads around evidence-based healthcare being broader than drugs and surgery.

Having served with Kevin on a national advisory committee and following closely his career since as an MP, I am confident he will be a great Minister of Health.

What fake medicines are those?

I suspect the reference was to this part of the Green’s Health policy platform:

Establish a Complementary Health Care Unit within the Ministry of Health to facilitate the integration of selected complementary health practices and therapies into the public health system.

Building on statements…

What fake medicines are those?

Specifically, he sat down and listened to a lot of people talk about internet peering – including public servants who had never had the opportunity to…

Yes, the success of companies like ISM only emphasises that.

It just seems to be a way to create jealousy and division. Surprised no leader has scrapped it – does the party constitution demand it?

LOL

I hope this helps then.

And well deserved, too. I don’t think it’s just a matter of her being in the Cunliffe camp.

(And I say that as someone who is broadly a fan of Green kookery.)

* in the sense that it's…

Yeah, I find most of what he says to be reasonable and sensible. It's the policy that I'd like to see change to match much of their other science and evidence based policy.

And I suspect I'm not alone in wanting to see them…

Health, Conservation and Transport.

Transport is a slam dunk given the expertise The Greens can bring to bear ... actually having someone who knows what the hell they are talking about lead a portfolio!

Conservation is also an obvious match for The Greens.

But Health? Bearing…

Jacinda Ardern just has not been getting much traction, so a sideways move with a chance to shine is good and Louisa…

Yup she was a scientist before she moved into politics so that's a plus.

Oddly given some of the policy coming out of the The Greens I wouldn't be too upset to see Science go to a Green MP ....except of course for the couple…

She definitely has science cred:

Moana left the coast to study at Victoria University in 1993 and graduated in 1997 with BSc(Hons) with first class honours in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology.

Yeah, he tweeted to that effect earlier. He may well be right.

I know nothing about Moana Mackey the spokesperson for…

NRT's take, is interesting, as it possibly explains some areas of potential weakness http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2013/09/a-signal-to-greens.html

Bags of enthusiasm, but not the credibility in the portfolio to match.

Civil Defence and Emergency Management
Open Government
Associate Regional Development
Associate ICT
Associate Economic…

The signal to start the killing was The Internationale, but the band was confused and played The National instead.