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		<title>Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Never let the facts ...</title>
		<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/</link>
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		<description><![CDATA[A talking shop where we put the questions and our community illuminates the issues.]]></description>
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			<copyright>Copyright (c) 2026 Public Address</copyright>
			

		
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=39269#post39269</link>
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						Oh I wasn't defending them. Just pointing out how the finances probably work out well for them about 90% of the time.
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				<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:27:21 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>rodgerd</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=39260#post39260</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Of course, if you suddenly find you're liable for the lifetime costs of an employee who gets shot in your carpark...</p></blockquote><p>Then your legal and risk analysis teams need firing.  Besides, while 'crippled for life by a bullet' is a pretty unlikely event, I can't imagine there are any shortage…</p>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:29:13 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Kyle Matthews</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=39259#post39259</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=39259#post39259</guid>
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						<blockquote><p>Does McGillicuddy Serious still exist?</p></blockquote><p>They wound up after the 1996 election. Some friends who were candidates said that it was just getting too hard to be silly enough any more &ndash; mainstreams parties such as NZ First and ACT had 'stolen their centre' so to speak.</p><blockquote><p>I also wonder…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:59:47 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>casahuia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38999#post38999</link>
				<guid>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38999#post38999</guid>
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						<blockquote>David Fisher's tremendous story about the battle between Affco and ACC in Wairoa. It's the story of corporate welshing, hired PR, tame politicians, pig-ignorant radio blatherers and one kid's wrecked life.</blockquote> Great to see an unbiased and thorough examination of this issue. ACC is a big easy lumbering juggernaught of…
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				<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 09:43:12 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Stephen Judd</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38954#post38954</link>
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						<p>And a couple of other things:<br />&ndash; while it doesn't make me any more sympathetic, AFFCO's profit last year was only 1.2m. In 02 and 98 they made a loss. This is a pretty chunky sum for them, big company or not.<br />&ndash; I can see how the dope-smoking rumour…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:00:32 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Ben McNicoll</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38950#post38950</link>
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						<p>Is the article paper version only? I can't find it on the herald site. </p><p>Or did I miss a link to it somewhere? </p><p>OOOOOO!!!! In firefox 3.0 beta2 you can drag text in a textarea, and it pulls a transparent preview of the selected text with it. It's purrdy!</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:52:08 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Stephen Judd</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38947#post38947</link>
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						Fletcher: you have to read the article RB posted about! There it's laid out fairly clearly that while this is indeed unintuitive, it IS what AFFCO signed up for.
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:11:05 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>FletcherB</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38945#post38945</link>
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						<p>Yeah, I understand all that... and generally I think what we have is a better system...</p><p>I guess it all comes down to the "borders" of where ACC's coverage and AFFCO's alternative deal meet (or dont?).</p><p>It just seems illogical and unfair, intuitively, that my employer might be responsible for…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:04:13 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Matthew Poole</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38942#post38942</link>
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						FletcherB: The ACC system's intention is to remove much of the American tort crapshoot (and resultant lunacy) from NZ's legal system. The result is that it pays for the costs of treating drunk or otherwise law-breaking drivers (such as those who crash while fleeing from the cops), and other people…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:37:20 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Paul Campbell</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38941#post38941</link>
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						Yeah I was going to make the same point &ndash; it's a "no fault" scheme &ndash; that means you get ACC no matter who was at fault and no matter whether they have money or not &ndash; in the US you only get it if the other guy actually has…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:37:12 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Idiot Savant</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38936#post38936</link>
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						<blockquote><p>My main point is, surely, being shot isnt actually an accident.... it was done on purpose.... and initial responsibility of costs should fall on the shooter....</p><p>Presumably, said gang member doesnt actually have the funds available.... but when the person responsible cant pay, thats when "the state" intervenes....</p></blockquote><p>This isn't…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:22:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>dc_red</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38924#post38924</link>
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						FletcherB &ndash; yes, my understanding is that ACC covers (and is intended to cover) a lot of injuries that don't fit the standard definition of "accident". It covers a whole raft of things where individuals are injured and can't as a general rule seek recourse in the civil courts. It's…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:07:17 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Max Call</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38922#post38922</link>
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						<p>FletcherB:<br />From memory the shooter has not been caught/charged.  The police say the know who it was.  Maybe the victim and his mate aren't willing to name names?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:03:52 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>FletcherB</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38921#post38921</link>
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						<p>Re: Affco et-al</p><p>Its an interesting point that while I've heard of this case off-and-on over the last year or two, the 'minor detail' that AFFCO had opted out of the normal ACC plan and had insurance with another provider had entirely escaped me... I guess thier expensive PR was…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:00:01 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Bob Munro</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38918#post38918</link>
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						Just back from an idyllic three days on Waiheke. A wedding and old friends, lovely weather and sheltered beaches.  According to <a href="http://www.metvuw.com/forecast/forecast.php?type=rain&amp;region=nz&amp;noofdays=all" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Metvuw</a> Russell, you will cop a bit of rain through Wednesday but clearing with the next high after that. The water trucks were in evidence so I guess they can…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:47:23 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>InternationalObserver</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38915#post38915</link>
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						<p>I've no doubt that the AFFCO vs ACC matter will be sorted in the courts, and that AFFCO will lose. What's saddest to me about this story is</p><blockquote><p>The sad, ironic note of conclusion is that Joel Storey now does wear a gang colour &mdash; the red of the Mongrel…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:32:41 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38912#post38912</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Wishart and his tawdry rage</p></blockquote><p>Whoops... for once an accurate typo, because I find it hard to believe <em>Investigate</em> is produced or read by people who are exactly overflowing with <em>joie de vive</em>. :)</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:16:28 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38910#post38910</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Craig, the last time NP supporters started wittering on about scandals about to be brought up by Labour it was as cover for their own muck racking, conveniently passed through the likes of Wishart and friends.</p></blockquote><p>Graeme: Apologise for the misreading.</p><p>Don:  Care to put up or shut up -…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 13:01:50 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Russell Brown</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38909#post38909</link>
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						<blockquote><p>He seems willing to risk the damage the ancient scandal might cause rather than the fuss a summary caucus execution might cause.</p></blockquote><p>Or has calculated that whatever it is is more likely to backfire on Labour, especially if it's historical. They've managed to shoot themselves in the foot fairly reliably…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:48:14 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Robyn Gallagher</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38907#post38907</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Does McGillicuddy Serious still exist?</p></blockquote><p>MMP kind of killed it (if your vote counts, there's not much point using it on the joke party), but there is <a href="http://www.greens.org.nz/people/turei_m.asp" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">a current MP</a> who was a McGillicuddy candidate in 1993.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:39:57 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38905#post38905</link>
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						<blockquote><p>I cannot speak for Graeme but I suspect when he says "back on point" he is talking about ACC and Affco...</p></blockquote><p>Precisely.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:23:58 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>dc_red</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38904#post38904</link>
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						<p>While National know doubt sees a good populist line in the Affco shooting story, I thought the political right were sticklers for the sanctity of contract? </p><p>Does McGillicuddy Serious still exist?</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:21:19 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>casahuia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38902#post38902</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Perhaps Bill could have taken the moral high ground &ndash; or his editor exercised some real live editorial judgment &ndash; and declined to set the stage for another round of shit-flinging.</p></blockquote><p>Pardon me but aren't we all just SICK TO DEATH of the predictably boring shite-flinging that our national politics…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:19:24 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Don Christie</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38901#post38901</link>
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						<p>Craig, the last time NP supporters started wittering on about scandals about to be brought up by Labour it was as cover for their own muck racking, conveniently passed through the likes of Wishart and friends. </p><p>I cannot speak for Graeme but I suspect when he says "back on point"…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:16:47 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38900#post38900</link>
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						<blockquote><p>But on point &ndash; I tried a few comments like this on DPF, but it's about time these inconvenient facts got a little more airplay.</p></blockquote><p>Hum... We might not be talking about the same thing but if Labour wants to reduce the campaign to a Ratshit Galucoma gossip column, go…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 12:09:55 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Tom Semmens</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38899#post38899</link>
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						We got back from a week on Waiheke on Friday. Ably assisted by what I am sure has been the best New Year weather in the last five years it was magic over there. I didn't want to return to the rat race only 45 minutes on the car ferry…
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:54:51 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Graeme Edgeler</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38897#post38897</link>
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						<blockquote><p>if its the 'neutron bomb' I've heard of, I suspect its just going to blow up in the face of the person who throws it</p></blockquote><p>I think you might be confusing nuclear weaponry with molotov cocktails :-)</p><p>But on point &ndash; I tried a few comments like this on DPF,…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:15:44 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Max Call</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38896#post38896</link>
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						<p>Agreed, Fishers article in the HOS was good.<br />I thought the way he introduced the story was excellent... first time in a long time that a story of over a few paragraphs (in the HOS) has grabbed my attention and made me want to read the whole story slowly and…</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:12:09 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Craig Ranapia</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38895#post38895</link>
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						<blockquote><p>Here's Ralston, not letting the facts get in the way of a good rant,</p></blockquote><p>I don't bother reading (as opposed to skimming) Ralston's columns at the best of times, but caught this  <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/466/story.cfm?c_id=466&amp;objectid=10484649" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">rather icky</a> column over the last bagel brunch of '07:</p><blockquote><p>There is, apparently, one niggle for the party leader.…</p></blockquote>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:04:46 +1300</pubDate>
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				<title>Public Address</title>
				<link>https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-never-let-the-facts/?p=38894#post38894</link>
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						<p>Discussion from blog post.</p>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:04:44 +1300</pubDate>
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