Public Address | Cafe | Hard News: Nelson Street: Not too pretty, please

BenWilson

Mon, 15 Jun 2015 11:16:46 +1200

“fast/slow bike lanes” ain’t it (who exactly is “fast” or “slow”?)

Maybe better to just call them overtaking lanes. When someone want to overtake, it's pretty clear who is fast-er and who is slow-er.

But yeah, I can't say I've found overtaking to be much of a problem on any…

Russell Brown

Mon, 15 Jun 2015 08:46:43 +1200

I think you want to take the opportunity to be best-practice, and “fast/slow bike lanes” ain’t it (who exactly is “fast” or “slow”?). But separation by direction and from pedestrians is.

Thanks Glen. I had been wondering about this.

Glen Koorey

Mon, 15 Jun 2015 08:30:06 +1200

I think you want to take the opportunity to be best-practice, and "fast/slow bike lanes" ain't it (who exactly is "fast" or "slow"?). But separation by direction and from pedestrians is. A couple of exhibits below from my recent trip through the Netherlands; basically treat the cycleway like a road…

Sacha

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 20:44:22 +1200

The other factor is the angle, as with wheelchairs and pedestrian rail crossings unfortunately.

If you hit the edge of the rail on an angle at a slower speed, your wheel gets flipped sideways then drops into the gap. Kiwirail have done nothing to address that on the Morningside and…

Russell Brown

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 19:23:30 +1200

Any wet metal has no grip and is thus a braking/steering hazard… but the really bad hazard of the tram-track is if your front wheel drops into the slot…

I am in a position to confirm this.

Thanks for explanation of what happened!

BenWilson

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 14:42:34 +1200

The problem is going to be the desire to stop and look at the views.

Yes. Thinking how to engineer a solution to that. Some ideas:

1. Have viewing bays, disconnected from each other so you can't walk/ride along.
2. Make it perspex right from the ground so the view…

Bart Janssen

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:58:28 +1200

the lanes could get faster toward the outside

The problem is going to be the desire to stop and look at the views.

Bart Janssen

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:54:37 +1200

my front wheel caught a wet rail

We were ambling around the new waterfront pathway and found ourselves all the way around the marina near the yacht club – it turns out the marina wasn't designed for bikes and the gap between the planks is big enough to swallow a…

BenWilson

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:16 +1200

Styley! I think there's bonus points if you keep your feet together on the landing. Smile for the judge with crucifix arms, then exit stage right for bone-setting and physio.

Did your helmet help or hinder the rolling?

For the on-ramp conversion just green-laning a strip up the middle and…

FletcherB

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:17:57 +1200

I guess tram tracks are so uncommon here that it's not common knowledge?

If you grow up in Melbourne you get told at primary school--- beware the tram-tracks on your bike..

Any wet metal has no grip and is thus a braking/steering hazard... but the really bad hazard of the…

Moz

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 12:40:19 +1200

If we're talking about an actual separated cycleway that's an opportunity to make something that is a second-to-none experience for cyclists

On the Manakau Bridge underslung path and in Christchurch what they (used to?) do is have a grade separation of a couple of centimetres. It's enough that you see…

Russell Brown

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 12:25:03 +1200

Collisions, even when they do happen, are likely to be low energy, and the cyclist falls from a greater height, probably onto their upper body so their risk of damage is greater.

I had an embarrassing non-injury accident last weekend. In preference to the rat-run that is the temporary eastbound…

BenWilson

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 12:00:43 +1200

The NW cycle lane feels to me like it’s going to collide a cyclist with a pedestrian in a way that’s gonna hurt.

I think "it's gonna hurt" is part of the reason that it also doesn't happen much. Cyclists can't casually kill someone through inattention or recklessness without also…

Rich of Observationz

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 10:11:09 +1200

Are the cycles that use this going to be equipped with brakes, or are they as unfashionable as the bell these days?

James Littlewood*

Fri, 12 Jun 2015 09:53:43 +1200

I'm not sure about the shared cycle & walkway concept. The NW cycle lane feels to me like it's going to collide a cyclist with a pedestrian in a way that's gonna hurt.

BenWilson

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 21:16:08 +1200

I meant the little bump thingies they use you let drivers feel the lane

Ah, OK, that makes more sense for cyclists. Although from memory they’re extremely inconvenient to skaters, which seems a bit mean. They’re one of the groups I see most frequently on the Grafton Gully slope. They…

FletcherB

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 17:16:30 +1200

No cycleway we’ve got anywhere yet actually has speed humps (aimed at cyclists)

Not intentionally… but the regular stretches of bumpy asphalt over tree-roots of the otherwise much smoother (but less than perfect) patchy concrete on the Gt North Rd/ Waterview stretch do a pretty good job of it if…

Bart Janssen

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:51:39 +1200

the most a speed bump every 5 metres or so.

Tricky question there. Do we really want/need to slow cyclists down?

Gah. I mispoke. I meant the little bump thingies they use you let drivers feel the lane not the dirty great big stupid things they put on the Dominion…

BenWilson

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:47:42 +1200

t the most a speed bump every 5 metres or so.

Tricky question there. Do we really want/need to slow cyclists down? The more you make a cycleway like the horrible one on Tamaki Drive, the less cyclists will actually use it. At least not for transport, but only for…

Brent Jackson

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:40:57 +1200

Not sure about the division between opposing directions, it needs to be clear but again can’t be anything you slip on or crash over.

A double white line ? Or double yellow if there is restricted visibility anywhere ?

Bart Janssen

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 13:54:36 +1200

Those look great. Intuitive and simple.

Just please don't use slippery paint for the markings.

Some kind of dividing line between fast and slow, but it shouldn't be anything like a curb. At the most a speed bump every 5 metres or so. The last thing you want is anything…

BenWilson

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 13:33:01 +1200

I'd wiggle your numbers a little bit (try walking at 10km/h!), but the point stands – a bike is usually going about 4 times faster than someone walking, and can easily be 10 times faster. It's similar to the gripe that many motorists have about bicycles. Just because you think…

JessicaRose

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 13:03:33 +1200

I know this isn't facebook, but can I just 'like' that comment? Play, FF and pause painted logos are a fantastic idea. Fast and cheap installation, easy to understand symbols.

FletcherB

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 12:44:14 +1200

Do people need to be so explicitly told what to do… or with enough width and decent sight lines, can they just be left to get on with it?

I'm with Alice above... So far we've been pretty bad at "sorting it out for ourselves' and seeing as this flyover…

BenWilson

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 11:46:44 +1200

How about including a pause button too?

Let's leave out the eject, though.

Alice Ronald

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 11:46:16 +1200

Frankly, NZers are pretty terrible at keeping left when moving slow/sharing spaces. Go to a mall & watch the escalators for a few minutes. I'd include some kind of marker or signage.

Roger Lacey

Thu, 11 Jun 2015 10:59:54 +1200

How about these for slow and fast markings respectively?

How about including a pause button too?

kris_b

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 20:14:47 +1200

Connect it, open it. Getting it in use is vastly more important than making it pretty in the short term.

BenWilson

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:59:33 +1200

Heh. Between lanes, we need ||.

Russell Brown

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 16:20:06 +1200

How about these for slow and fast markings respectively?

Oliver Roberts - AKLCouncil

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:39:48 +1200

Thanks Brent, but that raises an interesting question. Do people need to be so explicitly told what to do... or with enough width and decent sight lines, can they just be left to get on with it? Or should we go somewhere in the middle?

Russell Brown

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:31:40 +1200

How do you get down there to take that photo.

Nicked it from the Pinterest account of Contract Landscaping Limited, who are doing the work :-)

Bart Janssen

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:01:57 +1200

The piles for the connecting bridge being worked on this week.

How do you get down there to take that photo.

Brent Jackson

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 14:00:37 +1200

The surface design is a chance to celebrate the route and make it stand out from the grey that surrounds it. Doesn’t have to mean flashy…. But that’s why we want the feedback

It'd be great for it to look good, but it is imperative that this does not come…

BenWilson

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:48:13 +1200

I'm looking forward to this and agree with the minimalists. Decent safety barriers on the sides to prevent suicides. If they're transparent and high, and overhanging they double as weather shelters, and massively reduce the wind, which is very likely to be a problem on an elevated path in a…

Russell Brown

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 13:29:54 +1200

The piles for the connecting bridge being worked on this week.

Ana Simkiss

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:18:31 +1200

Maybe you should start with it as simple as possible and then add things slowly if they make sense once you see how the route is used.

I agree with Bart – this route could end up being a cycle superhighway or a pedestrian paradise. Observation of its evolution is…

Bart Janssen

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 09:19:07 +1200

The surface design is a chance to celebrate the route and make it stand out from the grey that surrounds it. Doesn’t have to mean flashy…. But that’s why we want the feedback.

Great to see you are reading this as well and thanks for dropping by.

I guess for…

Tim Michie

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 09:01:55 +1200

Yes. Reflector jacketed guys standing next to tripod video camera setups for hours on end are a regular sight, at least on the routes I mostly bus on, Mt Eden, New North Rds and Symonds St.

Russell Brown

Wed, 10 Jun 2015 08:50:34 +1200

Seeing a few trends emerging from the discussions and feedback so far, and there’s been a big response. We hoped for a minimum 400 submissions over the 17 days, but we’ve passed that already in less than a week.

Good to hear. Thanks for dropping by, Oliver.

Oliver Roberts - AKLCouncil

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 22:32:02 +1200

As you say, this isn't the skyline. It performs a different purpose and is in a very different environment, so the image from the City Centre Masterplan isn't practical at this stage. But this was a very popular project from the CCMP, and it's fantastic to see the pace that…

Sacha

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 22:13:41 +1200

the cycle routes paralleling Dominion Road are an example of how not to do it

Still attracting a whole lot of cars who would have used Sandringham and Dominion Rds. Hope someone is monitoring it.

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 21:31:03 +1200

A ramp? For doing jumps?

mpledger

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 20:48:56 +1200

As long as the foliage is low – anything too high then it becomes a bit scare for this women cyclist – who knows who is hiding behind the trees waiting to catch a lone female cyclist.

EE

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 17:46:01 +1200

I would like trees, flowers, birds, bees and butterflies... that would be nicer..

Russell Brown

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 17:25:08 +1200

Que?

Rich of Observationz

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 16:57:11 +1200

So you don't think they should incorporate a kicker?

Russell Brown

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 16:11:17 +1200

So I ticked leave it as is, and Other (Safety).

Yes. I used Other to emphasise safety too.

Russell Brown

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 16:10:12 +1200

According to Max Robitzsch on Twitter, cars will (ironically) be the saving of the space. NZTA wants to keep the traffic lane on the old on-ramp free for serious emergencies where they need some way to get traffic off the motorway.

Bart Janssen

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 16:09:16 +1200

It does seem to me that actually getting regular cyclists to give input on the design and then listening to them should be something that Auckland Transport should do more often.

As I've said before the cycle routes paralleling Dominion Road are an example of how not to do it…

Brent Jackson

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 16:06:24 +1200

I thought exactly the same thing when I saw the submission form. I went looking for more info, to get a better idea of what they were actually talking about, or perhaps even some ballpark costings, but after 10 minutes gave up in frustration. So I ticked leave it as…

Steve Curtis

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 15:53:14 +1200

No concrete native flora motifs!
Absolutely. A bit like the motorway bridge north of Orewa with its 'Pukeko legs'

Russell Brown

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 15:39:30 +1200

I’m tending towards this view, yes. The space is what it is. Just wide, safe and smooth, that’s what I want. But perhaps a grand work of street art on the facing wall under the K Road overpass. That would be nice.

Rickai

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 15:25:18 +1200

There'll be such a great view of the beautiful lines of Hopetoun Bridge. Leave it bare! It's a brutal site – let's embrace it. No concrete native flora motifs!

Public Address

Tue, 09 Jun 2015 15:25:17 +1200

Discussion from blog post.